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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #22084482 - 08/13/15 02:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rebelutionsssss said:
I believe it CAN cause cognitive and behavioral problems but with safe use the effects are negligible




In my personal use, and this is just personal, I got pretty significant depression a week or so after most times I used it and did notice troubles concentration and focusing on stuff.

My best friend at the time had to stop because our monthly use would give him depression for a couple weeks after dosing.


The fact is, it does damage your serotonin axons and is neurotoxic. This is not up for debate these are facts and numerous studies back this up.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineRebelutionsssss
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22084505 - 08/13/15 02:15 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

But to the extent of how neurotoxic it is in normal doses is still up for debate as well as if the damage it causes is reversible with a short period of time of stoping the use. Some study's have said there's an 80% deficit in the serotonin function of ecstasy users, and many many more saying there's only 2-4%. Sure it's going to effect the brain in some way but I'm a firm believer due to my experiences as well as others that MDMA's toxic effects are very minimal WHEN USED SAFELY.

We're on very very different pages due to our experiances but for the sake of leaving no rock unturned look at the study's that have found MDMA to be rather safe. There's plenty of credible ones with highly renouned neurologists that have found the risk to be minimal


--------------------
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To define is to confine.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss] * 1
    #22084522 - 08/13/15 02:20 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rebelutionsssss said:
But to the extent of how neurotoxic it is in normal doses is still up for debate as well as if the damage it causes is reversible with a short period of time of stoping the use. Some study's have said there's an 80% deficit in the serotonin function of ecstasy users, and many many more saying there's only 2-4%. Sure it's going to effect the brain in some way but I'm a firm believer due to my experiences as well as others that MDMA's toxic effects are very minimal WHEN USED SAFELY.

We're on very very different pages due to our experiances but for the sake of leaving no rock unturned look at the study's that have found MDMA to be rather safe. There's plenty of credible ones with highly renouned neurologists that have found the risk to be minimal




The studies I am reading are showing that it causes damage to your serotonin neurons within hours of taking the first dose. It doesn't even have to be a big dose.

There is evidence to show behavioral changes, personality differences, cognitive deficits, deregulation of receptors, lack of serotonin, mood issues, depression, ect.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineRebelutionsssss
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22084549 - 08/13/15 02:31 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

So how come all the users aren't walking around all fucked up with sever memory problems and depression? alot of really prolific users I know are extremely intelligent and have great lives as well as normal if not above normal concentration and memory even after hundreds of doses. Do you know how many people used MDMA frequently? Look at real life man, if MDMA was really as bad as these study's say there would be a sea of fucking retards roaming around right now. This leads me to believe that whatever damage is done is reversible with time or minimal to begin with.


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To define is to confine.


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #22084560 - 08/13/15 02:35 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rebelutionsssss said:
So how come all the users aren't walking around all fucked up with sever memory problems and depression? alot of really prolific users I know are extremely intelligent and have great lives as well as normal if not above normal concentration and memory even after hundreds of doses. Do you know how many people used MDMA frequently? Look at real life man, if MDMA was really as bad as these study's say there would be a sea of fucking retards roaming around right now. This leads me to believe that whatever damage is done is reversible with time.




This makes absolutely no sense.

Neurotoxic does not mean you are mentally retarded and can't remember your name. The effects are there and you can live a normal life perfectly fine but the effects of MDMA use on your cognition and mood are well documented and they exist.

Over time these effects become less severe, but you cannot bring a dead neuron back to life. Alcohol is neurotoxic too. People who are alcoholics are still able to perform day to day tasks and once they quit they can recover normal brain function but they still damaged brain cells and there are lasting consequences to that.

The neurotoxic effects of meth are also permanent. You can recover most of your brain function over time but not all of it. I accept that.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




Edited by Bitter Cactus (08/13/15 02:38 AM)


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OfflineRebelutionsssss
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22084585 - 08/13/15 02:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Well if it has no noticeable effect whatsoever on my ability to live my life completely normal then I don't see any problem. Again man I disagree on how toxic you think this substance is and there's study's proving that MDMA is extremely toxic and study's that show its very very minimally toxic. So we're going to have to leave it at that :cheers:


--------------------
:
To define is to confine.


Edited by Rebelutionsssss (08/13/15 02:55 AM)


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss] * 1
    #22084624 - 08/13/15 02:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rebelutionsssss said:
Well if it has no noticeable effect whatsoever on my ability to live my life completely normal then I don't see any problem. Again man I disagree on how toxic you think this substance is and there's study's proving that MDMA is extremely toxic and study's that show its very very minimally toxic. So we're going to have to leave it at that :cheers:




There is no scientific debate whether or not MDMA is neurotoxic. The answer is YES.

Other neurotoxic drugs: meth, alcohol


The scientific community is completely in agreement that it has long term effects on your serotonin neurons. Serotonin controls things like mood and concentration and memory. You are not going to feel brain damage or notice it blatanly, but the effects are there.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: 404]
    #22084628 - 08/13/15 03:01 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
what is a "moderate" dose?




1-1.5mg/kg one time dosage


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: mollymadman]
    #22084641 - 08/13/15 03:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mollymadman said:
I dunno about that. And kratom is addictive, I don't really like doing addictive drugs. Why would so many people with MDMA experience say 5htp works if it doesn't?




Makebelief & cognitive dissonance


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Invisible404
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Beanhead]
    #22084643 - 08/13/15 03:05 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

that's what i figured. i think i must have eaten 4 capsules of 60-80 mg per when i tried it for the first time knowing what it was just the other month. first time really rolling... and wow.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22084644 - 08/13/15 03:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
The fact that the first MDMA roll is always the best one makes me suspicious it does do permanent damage the first roll.

Once you lose the magic you are usually fucked. No other drug is like that to my knowledge. Not after just one use of X drug.




All amphetamines tend to excerbate "permatolerance"

You can get your initial feeling back usually but you're back at where you were after 2-3 times. (and you've waited years upon years, using no drugs)


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
    #22084649 - 08/13/15 03:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
SSRI's worked for other members of my family. :shrug:




Know someone who've taken SSRI for 7 years and is now a shade of what she used to be.

Whatever makes you "happy" (I heard banging your head to the wall helps too)


Edited by Beanhead (08/13/15 03:08 AM)


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Invisible404
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Beanhead]
    #22084655 - 08/13/15 03:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

they say the first meth use is the best one and every use after that isn't as good. i'm not surprised. amps are just bad for the body in non-therapeutic situations.

also, i've been reading on erowid that ssri's decrease the effects of mdma, and have been observed to reduce or block some of the neurotoxic effects. is anyone privy to this information?


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OfflineRebelutionsssss
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Beanhead]
    #22084733 - 08/13/15 03:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
SSRI's worked for other members of my family. :shrug:




Know someone who've taken SSRI for 7 years and is now a shade of what she used to be.

Whatever makes you "happy" (I heard banging your head to the wall helps too)



Nice hive logo :awehigh:


--------------------
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To define is to confine.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: 404]
    #22084745 - 08/13/15 03:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
they say the first meth use is the best one and every use after that isn't as good. i'm not surprised. amps are just bad for the body in non-therapeutic situations.

also, i've been reading on erowid that ssri's decrease the effects of mdma, and have been observed to reduce or block some of the neurotoxic effects. is anyone privy to this information?




I will never forget the first time. It's branded into my brain.

Downwards spiral ever since :P

Yeah I thought about noting that but it's far too dangerous to properly time by someone with no knowledge about how these things really work.

I'd advize you not to.


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OfflineIlift
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Beanhead] * 1
    #22085068 - 08/13/15 06:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Comedown isn't necessarily an indication of neurotoxicity, to say that you feel worse after MDMA than meth is poor because firstly, anecdotal evidence (lowest form) and secondly it has been proven that meth is a far more neurotoxic compound. The fact of the matter is that we don't know everything but to say because there is some doubt about neurotoxicity of moderate doses etc and use this to justify abuse is a silly thing to do.

In my opinion, assuming it takes roughly 3 weeks to get back to baseline levels you would want to be taking 2-3x that amount off at a time, this is inline with what most people say and recommend which is taking 2-3 months off. I think most people seem to be on the furthest ends of either side of the spectrum where I think you could push a monthly thing as long as the doses were low and you didn't do it for an extended period of time, the risk for damage would increase. I think the most appropriate way to take MDMA is leave it as an experience, find a safer party drug to do ( I personally like low doses of amphetamine and espresso) and only roll once or twice a year.


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OfflineIlift
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Beanhead]
    #22085080 - 08/13/15 06:50 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Beanhead said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
The fact that the first MDMA roll is always the best one makes me suspicious it does do permanent damage the first roll.

Once you lose the magic you are usually fucked. No other drug is like that to my knowledge. Not after just one use of X drug.




All amphetamines tend to excerbate "permatolerance"

You can get your initial feeling back usually but you're back at where you were after 2-3 times. (and you've waited years upon years, using no drugs)




Would say this is due to the lack of novelty and ones expectations, once you've had the gold standard you can only set the bar higher which is unlikely. I beg to differ about amphetamine tolerance, I have been taking it since October of last year and Im still only about 5mg over where I was a year ago, this is with breaks and a blast and cruise type regime


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
    #22085092 - 08/13/15 06:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I think they should give it to children on the last day of school.


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OfflineBeanhead
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Ilift]
    #22085105 - 08/13/15 07:03 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ilift said:
Quote:

Beanhead said:
Quote:

Bitter Cactus said:
The fact that the first MDMA roll is always the best one makes me suspicious it does do permanent damage the first roll.

Once you lose the magic you are usually fucked. No other drug is like that to my knowledge. Not after just one use of X drug.




All amphetamines tend to excerbate "permatolerance"

You can get your initial feeling back usually but you're back at where you were after 2-3 times. (and you've waited years upon years, using no drugs)




Would say this is due to the lack of novelty and ones expectations, once you've had the gold standard you can only set the bar higher which is unlikely. I beg to differ about amphetamine tolerance, I have been taking it since October of last year and Im still only about 5mg over where I was a year ago, this is with breaks and a blast and cruise type regime




And that's the way it should be taken and you could prolongue that feeling for the rest of your life, i've read similar stories but in the end effeciency does drop (you're already increasing dosage). I'd really still take breaks once in awhile though and look up the tolerance thread on BL, it may aid you.

Do a one time 100mg dosage (no, don't, eg) and you will (probably) never retain said feelings back.


Edited by Beanhead (08/13/15 07:04 AM)


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OfflineBitter Cactus
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Beanhead]
    #22085802 - 08/13/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

First of all, in the year I abused meth, I never lost the magic. The best highs were towards the end when I had the balls to shoot up 300mgs in one shot. Those would leave me unable to stand up or even see more then a foot forward for a couple hours.

I do hear though that MDMA can permanently lose the magic though. I bet the same thing can happen to meth but it never happened to me.


--------------------
Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.




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