|
Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 13,137
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: mollymadman]
#22084316 - 08/13/15 01:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
to each their own brother. I feel taking MDMA a couple times a year vs. smoking meth everyday is 1000x less damaging. MDMA could be more toxic dose per dose than meth but people don't use it with nearly as much frequency or in the amounts that people use with methamphetamine. So if one dose of MDMA is twice as bad as meth you're still doing a hundred times more damage because you're smoking grams of meth and only taking a hundred milligrams of MDMA
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
|
mollymadman
love each other :)


Registered: 08/12/15
Posts: 456
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22084321 - 08/13/15 01:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:
mollymadman said: Well then it must take a while to affect you because I feel fine. Either that of I have a super brain. Lol I'm kidding about the super brain, I just think the dangers of MDMA are greatly exaggerated, of course its still dangerous if abused tho. I believe you can get away with a lot more than you think tho, the brain is quite resilient. Have you ever met someone who became permafried from MDMA alone?
You are so so naiive. MDMA does brain damage and damages your serotonin axons. It is neurotoxic.
I don't believe that with the doses or frequency I take it that this is true.
--------------------
  Finding the answer... Finding that there ain't no answer to find.
|
mollymadman
love each other :)


Registered: 08/12/15
Posts: 456
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22084323 - 08/13/15 01:12 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rebelutionsssss said: to each their own brother. I feel taking MDMA a couple times a year vs. smoking meth everyday is 1000x less damaging. MDMA could be more toxic dose per dose than meth but people don't use it with nearly as much frequency or in the amounts that people use with methamphetamine. So if one dose of MDMA is twice as bad as meth you're still doing a hundred times more damage because you're smoking grams of meth and only taking a hundred milligrams of MDMA
This pretty much sums it up.
--------------------
  Finding the answer... Finding that there ain't no answer to find.
|
Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22084332 - 08/13/15 01:14 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
In laboratory animals, large or frequent doses of MDMA can destroy serotonin axons. Serotonin neurons (brain cells) form a sort of control system in your brain, regulating emotions, appetite, sleep and other functions. The serotonin axons are ‘communication cables’ that the serotonin system uses to send its signals to the rest of the brain. (MDMA works primarily by causing these serotonin axons to release a lot of serotonin at once, causing euphoria.)
These two pictures show slices of a monkey’s brain. The serotonin axons have been stained to make them appear as bright lines. The picture on the left (A) is from a normal monkey. The picture on the right (B) is from a monkey that was injected with a very large dose of MDMA.[1] As you can see, many of its serotonin axons have been lost. (Animal research suggests that when a neurotoxic dosage of MDMA is given, damage to the axons starts to occur in as little as an hour or two.) Animal experiments suggest that if neurotoxicity occurs, some new serotonin axons can grow to replace them…but they grow in different places than where the original ones were.[2] The long-term effects of this ‘rewiring’ are not known.
Again, getting addicted to meth is very bad. Let's talk about MDMA here and how mollymadman is in complete denial about the damage he is doing to his brain. I just wanted to warn him.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
|
mollymadman
love each other :)


Registered: 08/12/15
Posts: 456
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22084338 - 08/13/15 01:16 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Is that the study where they gave them meth? All those studies are bullshit man.
--------------------
  Finding the answer... Finding that there ain't no answer to find.
|
nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: mollymadman]
#22084345 - 08/13/15 01:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Dude just don't even bother arguing with him. Trust me.
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
|
Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 13,137
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22084346 - 08/13/15 01:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Yea why don't you quote the dose they were giving those monkeys.... Hundreds of miligrams for a body weight that's a tenth of ours. That's like me taking 5 grams at once and repeating that for a few days straight. No fucking shit there's going to be a ton of damage.
A lot of Those study's are so extreme that it doesn't even apply to real life human dosing when prevention and care are taken into account.
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
|
Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22084352 - 08/13/15 01:19 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Numerous animal studies have yielded clear evidence of potent neurotoxic effects of MDMA that are specific to central serotonergic (5-HT)systems.2 Given the important role that 5-HT plays in regulating emotion, memory, sleep, pain, and higher order cognitive processes, it is possible that MDMA might cause avariety of behavioral and cognitive deficiencies, as well as impairing memory.Although the applicability of these results to the human condition has been vigorously contested, clinical observations are sufficient to raise legitimate concern over the negative consequences of exposure to MDMA in humans.
The evidence that MDMA is toxic to central serotonergic nerve terminals wasderived from experiments in several different species, including rats2 and a variety of subhuman primates.3,4The latter group appears to be up to 4 times more susceptible to MDMA than are rodents. Although initially it was thought that toxicity required multiple exposure to relatively high doses of MDMA, subsequent studies have shown that a single exposure to a high dose, or several exposures to lower doses, can induce the same profile of toxicity.5 Morerecently, studies in rats showed that even a single exposure can result in some manifestations of neuronal damage6; in primates, both the doses and treatment regimens that produce neurotoxic effects overlap with those doses that some humans received when using ecstacy recreationally.7
The manifestations of this neurotoxicity, in terms of altered cerebral function and behavioral change, range from neuroendocrine impairments16 to deficits in verbal memory and reasoning,17short-term memory and semantic recognition,14 and visual memory.18More general indices of intelligence are also adversely affected,19 but reports of serious long-term psychiatric disorders are still rare, with the possibility that previous exposure to MDMA merely accentuates preexisting negative personality features.20 One particularly worrying feature that has emerged is that chronic psychosis, when manifest in MDMA users, reportedly responds poorly to therapy.21
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
|
mollymadman
love each other :)


Registered: 08/12/15
Posts: 456
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22084359 - 08/13/15 01:20 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
The whole purpose of those studies was to prove that MDMA is bad. You can prove anyyhing with science if u adjust the parameters to meet your needs. The government funded those studies to fuel the drug war.
--------------------
  Finding the answer... Finding that there ain't no answer to find.
|
Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: mollymadman]
#22084361 - 08/13/15 01:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mollymadman said: The whole purpose of those studies was to prove that MDMA is bad. You can prove anyyhing with science if u adjust the parameters to meet your needs. The government funded those studies to fuel the drug war.
Are you seriously kidding me? You are only gonna believe things that say MDMA is good for you I bet.
Listen, MDMA is neurotoxic and should be used with caution and infrequently. These are scientific studies dude are you actually that much in denial?
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
|
mollymadman
love each other :)


Registered: 08/12/15
Posts: 456
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22084367 - 08/13/15 01:24 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Look man I know it's not good for you, but its really not that bad. I'd say the way most people drink is a lot worse. I feel like I've done more brain damage from alch than from MDMA.
--------------------
  Finding the answer... Finding that there ain't no answer to find.
|
nicechrisman
Interdimensional space wizard



Registered: 11/07/03
Posts: 33,241
Last seen: 4 years, 6 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22084368 - 08/13/15 01:24 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Marijuana is good for you
-------------------- "Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent: it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not." John C. Lily
|
Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 13,137
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22084375 - 08/13/15 01:26 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Bitter Cactus said:
Quote:
mollymadman said: The whole purpose of those studies was to prove that MDMA is bad. You can prove anyyhing with science if u adjust the parameters to meet your needs. The government funded those studies to fuel the drug war.
Are you seriously kidding me? You are only gonna believe things that say MDMA is good for you I bet.
Listen, MDMA is neurotoxic and should be used with caution and infrequently. These are scientific studies dude are you actually that much in denial?
I have to agree man. MDMA is toxic to a certain degree and all caution can't be thrown out the window with this substance. With that being said I feel that the dangers are way over played although there are still real risks with taking MDMA
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
|
mollymadman
love each other :)


Registered: 08/12/15
Posts: 456
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22084396 - 08/13/15 01:35 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Nah man MDMA is good for you and the more often you do it the healthier you'll be haha! I hope its obvious I'm kidding...
--------------------
  Finding the answer... Finding that there ain't no answer to find.
|
Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 13,137
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: mollymadman]
#22084401 - 08/13/15 01:37 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
But meth is definitely safe if not extremely Beneficial for you so feel free to use without caution
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
|
Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22084414 - 08/13/15 01:41 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
On the other hand, the risks associated with possible long-term brain damage are more difficult to assess. Numerous studies in animals have shown that MDMA can produce long-lasting decreases in brain functions involving the neurotransmitter serotonin. It is unclear what these changes mean. Lasting behavioral changes in MDMA-exposed animals have been seldom detected and are fairly subtle when they are found. Though limited in scope, studies of ecstasy users present a strong probability that similar serotonergic changes occur in many humans.Studies comparing ecstasy users and nonusers support an association between modestly-lowered intelligence testing, or cognitive performance tests, and ecstasy use, but clinically significant performance decreases have not been detected. In other words, there is no increased incidence of clinical complaints or findings.
- MDMA does produce long-lasting changes to the serotonergic system at some doses. These long-term changes include decreases in brain concentrations of the neurotransmitter serotonin (5-HT) and its metabolite 5-hydroxyindoleacetic acid (5-HIAA). Levels of tryptophan hydroxylase (TPH), the enzyme that begins the synthesis of 5-HT within the serotonergic nerve cell are decreased.]There are also decreases in the density of the serotonin reuptake transporter (SERT), the protein on the membrane of serotonergic neurons that recycles released 5-HT by pulling it back into the cell. Most studies suggest that MDMA primarily causes long-term changes in serotonergic axons that have their cell bodies in an area of the brainstem called the dorsal raphe nucleus.
- Long-lasting decreases in these serotonergic markers suggest that either (a) some type of "down regulation" has occurred, meaning the nerve cell is making maintaining less of the markers, or (b) that serotonergic axons are permanently lost. The question of whether MDMA is truly neurotoxic stems from this issue. Down regulation suggests an active adaptation to drug effects, while axonal loss suggests true damage may have occurred
- By examining the structure of serotonergic axons in MDMA-exposed animals, however, it is clear that MDMA can also cause axonal loss
- Consistent reports link repeated ecstasy use to depressed mood (Cohen 1995; Curran, 1997; Davison, 1997; Gamma, 2000; Gerra, 2000;1998; Morgan, 1999; Parrott 2000; 1998; Solowij, 1992). Because dysphoric mood is a known residual effect of other psychostimulant drugs (Coffey, 2000), it is likely that ecstasy use plays a causal role in this phenomenon. In a survey of 158 polydrug users, Williamson (1997) found that similar numbers of users reported depression, anxiety, and related adverse effects after cocaine as compared to MDMA. Thus, in some ways, MDMA is very similar to other psychostimulants.
- In addition, there are a number of case reports of psychiatric disorders, such as psychosis, depression, and panic attacks in ecstasy users(reviewed in McGuire, 2000). Given that other psychostimulants are associated with psychiatric disorders in illicit users, it would not be surprising if this were also true of MDMA. For example, it is well established that stimulant-induced psychosis can occur in cocaine or methamphetamine users (Angrist, 1994). Reports of MDMA-related psychosis have also been published (Creighton, 1991; McCann, 1991a; McGuire, 2000; 1991). These psychiatric disorders need not be related to the selective neurotoxicity discussed in this chapter. For example, methamphetamine can produce chronic behavioral disturbances resembling psychosis in primates using regimens that are not neurotoxic to dopaminergic or serotonergic systems (Castner, 1999).
- Repeated ecstasy exposure is associated with decreased performance on cognitive tests.
- Perhaps the most thorough study published so far was conducted by Gouzoulis-Mayfrank (2000). In this study, users of both ecstasy and cannabis were compared to cannabis users and drug-free volunteers. Extent of ecstasy use was correlated with decreased performance in a range of task.Performance in ecstasy-using volunteers remained, on the average, in the low end of clinically normal functioning. However, this is not particularly reassuring given that these users appeared to have fairly common use patterns (1.4 +/- 0.9 tablets taken 2.4 +/- 1.6 times per month). If modestly decreased cognitive performance is an effect of MDMA, it is likely one experienced by many individuals.
Does ecstasy use cause this poor ognitive performance? The current data are inconclusive but suggest the answer is "yes." Many (but not all, e.g., Morgan 1998) studies have found that repeated ecstasy users perform worse in many cognitive tests than nonusers and that users with more ecstasy exposure perform worse than those with less exposure (Bolla, 1998; Dafters, 1999; Gouzoulis-Mayfrank, 2000; McCann, 1999
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
Edited by Bitter Cactus (08/13/15 01:42 AM)
|
Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22084433 - 08/13/15 01:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rebelutionsssss said: But meth is definitely safe if not extremely Beneficial for you so feel free to use without caution
Sorry for sounding like I was defending meth. Absolutely not, it ruins lives and damages your brain as well. I just want that one poster to stop pretending that MDMA is some drug you can take every week without damaging your brain long term.
MDMA is a hard drug in the same league as meth btw. People just don't abuse it as much but the long term effects on your cognitive abilities and your psyche are real.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
Edited by Bitter Cactus (08/13/15 01:50 AM)
|
Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 13,137
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22084454 - 08/13/15 01:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
That's really circumstial data without knowing what other drugs they've taken. The only way to truly know if that's real is to find subjects that have ONLY used MDMA and have used it safely. I have no doubt MDMA can be extremely bad for you when taken without care but to say all this bullshit about it causing lasting brain damage and extremely lowered cognition and memory and all this "MDMA will rot your mind until you can even remember your own name!" Type of crap is outlandish. The founder of maps admitted to using MDMA hundreds of times over the course of years and he has multiple master degrees. I've used MDMA at least 200 times and I'm obviously not impaired in anyway.
Sure, take a few grams every weekend for years on end and you will show signs of everything they're saying but to say rolling once a month or so for a limited period of time is going to cause all that is just absolute propaganda bullshit. Again it will vary from person to person so nothing is set in stone but hundreds of thousands of people use MDMA frequently and obviously aren't impaired like that study says you will be. Most study's say that a lot of the damage caused by high MDMA dosing is very possibly reversed with a few months of abstinence.
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
|
Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22084464 - 08/13/15 01:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Rebelutionsssss said: That's really circumstial data without knowing what other drugs they've taken. The only way to truly know if that's real is to find subjects that have ONLY used MDMA and if they've used it safely. I have no doubt MDMA can be extremely bad for you when taken without care but to say all this bullshit about it causing lasting brain damage and extremely lowered cognition and memory and all this "MDMA will rot your mind until you can even remember your own name!" Type of crap is outlandish. The founder of maps admitted to using MDMA hundreds of times over the course of years and he has multiple master degrees. I've used MDMA at least 200 times and I'm obviously not impaired in anyway.
Sure, take a few grams every weekend for years on end and you will show signs of everything they're saying but to say rolling once a month or so for a limited period of time is going to cause all that is just absolute propaganda bullshit. Again it will vary from person to person so nothing is set in stone
These are many scientific studies man I do not know what else to tell you. Nobody just made this stuff up. It does not rot your brain that is stupid. And dude, alcohol is neurotoxic too.
MDMA does cause cognitive and mood issues in people. This is not propaganda you have to believe me I just posted parts of real studies...
It does not cause EXTREMELY lowered cognition by the way, but it does effect your cognition. It does effect your memory too. How is this shocking?
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
Edited by Bitter Cactus (08/13/15 02:00 AM)
|
Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 13,137
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
|
Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22084473 - 08/13/15 02:02 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I believe it CAN cause cognitive and behavioral problems but with safe use the effects are negligible
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
|
|