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Love_spirit
Circle Of Power


Registered: 07/18/15
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Last seen: 7 months, 27 days
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22081122 - 08/12/15 12:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 13,137
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Love_spirit]
#22081128 - 08/12/15 12:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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dont post fucking music videos in this thread man, go somewhere else
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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Bitter Cactus
reformed bad boy


Registered: 01/26/12
Posts: 11,773
Loc: Alberta, Canada
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22081152 - 08/12/15 12:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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SSRI's worked for other members of my family.
-------------------- Taking acid and thinking you are a better man is a lot different then actually becoming a better man.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Bitter Cactus]
#22081288 - 08/12/15 12:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sure they help some people, they also hurt a lot of people and don't work at all for many others. My point is you cant say "its not good because if it was doctors would prescribe it". That is not at all how it works. Doctors don't prescribe any natural cures or treatments even if they work as well or better and are safer.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Gottaloveacid
Weedbass



Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 3,421
Loc: Colorado, USA
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Moonshoe]
#22082407 - 08/12/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: Sure they help some people, they also hurt a lot of people and don't work at all for many others. My point is you cant say "its not good because if it was doctors would prescribe it". That is not at all how it works. Doctors don't prescribe any natural cures or treatments even if they work as well or better and are safer.
Doctors can only prescribe what they are allowed to. The reason MDMA and psychedelics (even weed) are not medicines yet is because it is illegal to research, therefore doctors know very little and it would be EXTREMELY illegal to give it to patients. I have a family member who is a doctor and she knows all about how useful psychedelics CAN be, and she HATES giving people antidepressants and benzos in place of them. Fucked up world we live in, but it doesn't mean SSRIs are any good.
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 The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends! wubba lubba dub dubstep
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xbloodwhipx

Registered: 02/24/12
Posts: 12,791
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Gottaloveacid]
#22082454 - 08/12/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fuck SSRIs. Worthless trash. I want legal marijuana for my anxiety, not ssris or benzos... Okay government?
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 13,851
Loc:
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Quote:
BlindSophist said: Dopamine is far more poisonous than serotonin... as a molecule, it's relatively smaller than serotonin, and it has two adjacent hydroxy groups, which make it more polar and more disruptive to intermolecular bonds, especially in high concentrations. Hydrogen bonds with sulfur and oxygen are integral to protein structure and dopamine's strong electronegativity really fucks that shit up, partially denaturing all proteins comprising the cell exposed to it in high concentration. Like dissolves like, and dopamine is like to the chemical bonds that hold cells intact.
This is why MDMA causes so much less brain damage and addiction than meth, even though its potency as a serotonin releasing agent is comparable to meth's potency as a dopamine releasing agent. I'm guessing that the dopaminergic oxidative stress of acute meth intoxication, and its tendency to completely fuck up the neurons exposed to that much dopamine, is responsible for the rapid occurrence of drug-craving, as the user feels compelled to compensate for the paradoxical loss of dopamine reuptake in their dopamine-flooded synapses by releasing even more dopamine throughout the lesser-damaged areas of the brain. By comparison, serotonin toxicity merely damages the electrical synapses associated with serotonin receptors, causing a loss of serotonergic response without the loss of serotonin reuptake.
I'm gonna need a source for your claim that dopamine molecules denature proteins..I'm almost 100% sure that's incorrect. It isn't the dopamine molecule itself but more its ability to become oxidized which produces free radicals,
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and it has two adjacent hydroxy groups, which make it more polar
Dopamine is barely polar. It's not even polar enough to cross the blood brain barrier because of its benzene ring (which is non polar)
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By comparison, serotonin toxicity merely damages the electrical synapses associated with serotonin receptors, causing a loss of serotonergic response without the loss of serotonin reuptake.
Source?
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22082623 - 08/12/15 06:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I was just speculating
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 13,851
Loc:
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Fair enough
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 13,851
Loc:
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: 404] 1
#22082883 - 08/12/15 06:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
404 said: yes, it said
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CONCLUSIONS:
These data demonstrate that MDMA when injected directly into the brain produces 5-HT release but no neurotoxicity, suggesting that it must be metabolised peripherally in order to produce compounds that induce free radical formation and neurotoxicity in the brain.
so pretty much it is the metabolism of mdma (and mda) that is responsible for its neurotoxicity.
This is basically the right answer..
MDMA and Oxidative Stress In the case of MDMA, reseach has shown that MDMA causes oxidation of certain enzymes and increases levels of certain oxidative radicals.26,5,1,6,9 Researchers Shankaran1 and Colado6,9 have directly measured a steep increase in oxidative radicals in the first few hours after MDMA is given which slowly returns to normal as MDMA is cleared from the body (taking about 24-36 hours). Initially, the body's resources are able to handle the increased oxidative load, but the data suggest that within a few hours, antioxidant reserves become depleted and damage to the serotonin axons begins. With a metabolic half-life of around 9 hours in human, MDMA can continue causing oxidative stress for more than 24 hours after a single dose.
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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mollymadman
love each other :)


Registered: 08/12/15
Posts: 456
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22082915 - 08/12/15 07:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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So would this suggest that taking MDMA with a strong antioxidant like match a or blueberries would help reduce damages?
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  Finding the answer... Finding that there ain't no answer to find.
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 13,851
Loc:
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: mollymadman] 1
#22082951 - 08/12/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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There are a few amino acid/antioxidants being developed that have already been proven to provide a buffer against MDMA neurotoxicity in rats. Still has a long way to go though.
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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SirShroomsAlott
Howdy



Registered: 05/15/14
Posts: 6,945
Loc: United States
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Malcolm_Xtasy]
#22082967 - 08/12/15 07:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Have you tried it before Malcolm? and is the neurotoxicity that much of a problem if taken in moderation, meaning like less then once a year?
A buddy of mine just got some and mdma is the one I've always wanted to try but if it's going to fuck my mind permanently or that bad I'd rather not take it.
I also didn't read any responses in this thread apart from this page and the last so idk if this has been covered but you seem pretty knowledgable on the subject lol
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
#22082976 - 08/12/15 07:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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was just looking at erowid's section on antioxidants. there are in fact several out that can help deal with the oxidative stress. not so much the neurotoxic metabolites though i don't think?
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 13,851
Loc:
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
#22082990 - 08/12/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Have you tried it before Malcolm?
It as in MDMA? I've rolled a handful of times. Probably around 10-12
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and is the neurotoxicity that much of a problem if taken in moderation, meaning like less then once a year?
Generally no. The problem stems from repeated use and increasing dosages to try and "get the magic back"
You brain isn't going to be permanently fucked if you exercise some caution and common sense IME/O
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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Gottaloveacid
Weedbass



Registered: 10/20/14
Posts: 3,421
Loc: Colorado, USA
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: 404]
#22083007 - 08/12/15 07:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
404 said: was just looking at erowid's section on antioxidants. there are in fact several out that can help deal with the oxidative stress. not so much the neurotoxic metabolites though i don't think?
I am still very confident that the vast (over 95%) majority of the damage is from the dopamine entering the serotonin axons. While there may actually be neurotoxic metabolites, they couldn't be significant because you would hear more about it in medical literature and on sites like erowid.
But to answer your question, it depends on how exactly the metabolites are neurotoxic. If the toxicity is from free radicals, then yes, anti oxidants would help.
--------------------
 The greatest story ever told is the story that never ends! wubba lubba dub dubstep
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Malcolm_Xtasy
Oh baby what Is you doin??



Registered: 04/04/12
Posts: 13,851
Loc:
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Gottaloveacid]
#22083061 - 08/12/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
I am still very confident that the vast (over 95%) majority of the damage is from the dopamine entering the serotonin axons.
-------------------- I'm stupid, Enlil is smart. I'm ugly, Enlil is beautiful. I'm a loser, Enlil is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Enlil but secretly know I never will.
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Rebelutionsssss
Mdmazing



Registered: 07/23/14
Posts: 13,137
Loc: San Francisco
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
#22083372 - 08/12/15 08:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirShroomsAlott said: Have you tried it before Malcolm? and is the neurotoxicity that much of a problem if taken in moderation, meaning like less then once a year?
A buddy of mine just got some and mdma is the one I've always wanted to try but if it's going to fuck my mind permanently or that bad I'd rather not take it.
I also didn't read any responses in this thread apart from this page and the last so idk if this has been covered but you seem pretty knowledgable on the subject lol
Try it man it's not going to fuck up your mind permanently unless you abuse the living shit out of it every weekend
-------------------- : To define is to confine.
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mollymadman
love each other :)


Registered: 08/12/15
Posts: 456
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: Rebelutionsssss]
#22083531 - 08/12/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Lol and who does that anyways...
--------------------
  Finding the answer... Finding that there ain't no answer to find.
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Sheekle
FREE BURKE



Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 53,153
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Re: How dangerous do you guys feel MDMA truly is? [Re: mollymadman]
#22083851 - 08/12/15 10:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mollymadman said: So would this suggest that taking MDMA with a strong antioxidant like match a or blueberries would help reduce damages?
Take it with ALpha-Lipoic acid
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