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InvisibleInocuole
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A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks * 7
    #22072628 - 08/10/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

"Wait,"

"A coir tek, but why?", you might find yourself asking. "Don't we all already know how to do coir?", you continue to ponder aloud, with each question only giving rise to a myriad of others in a harmonized union of confusion and intrigue that leaves your heart racing.  Luckily your suspense is not without reprieve!

Why yes, my fine friends, acquaintances, eager learners, and awkward relatives, we are most assuredly experiencing an abundance of similar information, and therein lies the problem.

If you started growing by learning coir then you probably learned the bucket tek.  It's a good tek.  It gets the job done and it's straightforward.  But what the bucket tek isn't, is neither proper pasteurization nor proper sterilization.  You probably think I'm going to start talking about how this tek is at least one of those.  Well, what I'm actually going to do is ask, if many are willing to say fuck it and do the bucket, why stop the fuck it there?

This tek isn't unique.  It's probably not proper anything.  I'm posting it because it works with coir and because the monogamous relationship people have with their tried and true methods is about to get freaky deaky.

If you're adamant about being technical, this is closer to sterilization than pasteurization.

:nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan::nyan:

You'll need:

-650g brick of coir (or 650 grams of dry coir in any shape you can imagine, be creative)
-Oven bags (mine appear to be for baking turkeys)
-Vermiculite (~2 quarts)
-Gypsum (optional)
-You know, normal stuff?  A stove and oven, pot to boil water?  Maybe some towels or rags.
-Fuck the list format, let's get to the point, clock's a tickin.



Do the thing:



Here's some options for you, do it however you want:

0.(optional) If you have a flathead screwdriver you can use it to wedge the brick into a few pieces which will help it hydrate more easily and evenly.  Just less work later on.

1.a If you have a 5gal bucket, put your oven bag in there like it's a trash liner, then drop your brick inside

1.b If you don't have a bucket, and you do have a big metal sink, you can put the brick in the oven bag and put that in the empty sink.
1.c Don't have a sink?  What is wrong with you?  Put the bag with the brick in it in the bathtub.  You have one of those right?


2. Dump in 2.5 quarts of verm, or however much you want, just try to stay between 1 and 4.  I always eyeball it.  You can always add more later, right out of the bag, if it seems too wet.

3.  Boil 4.5 quarts of water, add 1/4 cup of gypsum(either pellets or powder) to the water while it's boiling, give it a quick stir so there's nothing stuck to the bottom, and pour it all directly into the bag, onto the coir/verm preferably.  The bucket method has this the easiest, while the bathtub is probably the hardest(don't burn yourself).  The oven bags come with ties, you want to get most of the hot air out, twist it up, and tie up the bag while it's still hot.


4. Now that you have a tied up bag full of hot ass water and substrate, take some hand towels or gloves and try to mix the bag up a little bit.  The goal is just to eliminate those dry clumps of coir and get everything broken up and hydrated.  This isn't really necessary but I feel like it helps everything work a bit better if you do.  Release all the hot air and re-tie the bag before continuing.

5. Take a rack out of your oven if necessary, and lay the oven bag in there so that it's not touching any of the sides, just sitting on the rack in the middle.


6. Dial the oven to 200 and leave it for about 80 minutes.  Turn the oven off and let it do a bit of its cooling in there, (another hour is good) then take it out and let it cool out on the counter or floor or wherever until you can handle it comfortably.

7. Dispense it out of the bag as needed, if you have leftovers, just close up the bag and use them when needed, since coir stores so well you can keep it that way for at least a week or two without there being a need to re-treat the coir.  I generally put about 6 quarts of grain to each brick of coir.  You know how it goes, mix it up evenly, get it nice and flat.  This is enough for one 66qt mono, or several smaller projects.

Now you's dids it!

The bags can usually be reused at least 3-4 times before they start to feel a little stiff/weak.  The logic is that the coir is already hot from the boiling water, so the problem of the core temperature taking too long to reach in the oven becomes a non-issue when the substrate is already in range of the target temperature prior to treatment, and with it having been placed in an environment hotter than the target temperature, the possibility of insufficient heat treatment is not a concern.  If anything other than CVG(Coir, Verm, Gypsum) is used for this it'll fail, but I find that it suits my needs perfectly and leaves no room for error.

:oldman::oldman: :oldman::oldman: :oldman::oldman: :oldman::oldman: :oldman::oldman: :oldman::oldman:

Now, as you can see based on the reception here on the first page the fact that I had to recreate this thread, it may be necessary to include some disclaimers so as to prevent further... outbursts.  I've already told you not to use this tek for anything but CVG, less than 3 sentences ago in fact, but I want to be real specific.  If you use this with manure, straw, coffee, or pretty much anything else, it's going to trich the fuck out.  Coir doesn't give a shit what you do to it, which is why I'm breaking conventions by using the oven in the first place.  It likes being cooked.  So I just cook it.  Like it's food.  Zing.

Have a nice day everybody.  Be friends!  If you want to blast each other about stuff save it til at least page 3, then you have my go-ahead to cut loose.  Let's at least fill the first page with questions and suggestions that might help people make educated decisions about how to prepare their substrates.


Edited by Inocuole (02/13/16 06:08 PM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22072672 - 08/10/15 05:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Good stuff inoc :rockon:


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Invisibleeatyualive
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22072704 - 08/10/15 05:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Nice write up!:thumbup:


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OfflineJohnnyR1ngo
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22072717 - 08/10/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, I can see it... I'm imagining real hard.. But, wait...I have a question ... Now that I read the post with the eagerness of a sophisticated scholar... Want I ask I the rack won't melt my bag? And I appreciate you taking the time and really helping a shroomaritian out... Good day and... Be well Inoc...


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: JohnnyR1ngo]
    #22072724 - 08/10/15 05:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It's an oven bag.  They're made for baking turkeys inside of, so they should withstand up to like 350 without any issue.  Once you feel one you can tell the plastic is quality.  I think right on the rack is how you're supposed to do it.  I've put it on a baking sheet other times but it didn't make a difference being on the rack so I just do that now.


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22072763 - 08/10/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

When you store it for the week or so... How would one store it properly... In a bucket, or freezer...? Room temp?


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22072764 - 08/10/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:nothingtoadd:


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: paperbackwriter]
    #22072768 - 08/10/15 05:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:tipofthecap:


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: JohnnyR1ngo]
    #22072775 - 08/10/15 05:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If you're following my tek, I keep it stored in the oven bag I prepared it in, since it comes with its own twist-tie.  I imagine this will all become much more clear when I do my batch of coir and take pictures the whole way through the process.  A bucket is fine too.  Anything that will seal it and keep stuff from getting in, and moisture from getting out.  I see no better option than the container it was cooked in.

Room temp is fine.


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22072793 - 08/10/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

wheres the part about plastic tubs?

:rofl:
sweet prep bro


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22072798 - 08/10/15 05:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

And following this tek, if one had the correct ratio of clean spawn... You would have enough substrate for a 66qt.. Mono... Or project of similar size I not using montub..?


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: JohnnyR1ngo]
    #22072808 - 08/10/15 05:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
wheres the part about plastic tubs?

:rofl:
sweet prep bro




I haven't done a monotub, SGFC, SAB, dub, TiT, or printing tek yet.  Those will all strongly encourage the use of a plastic tub, if I were to ever write such a thing.  Good enough writeups out for those though.

Quote:

JohnnyR1ngo said:
And following this tek, if one had the correct ratio of clean spawn... You would have enough substrate for a 66qt.. Mono... Or project of similar size I not using montub..?




Yes, 1 650g brick of coir and 2 quarts of verm is perfect for 5-6 quarts of grain spawn in a 66 qt mono.  I edited that into the last step.


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22072825 - 08/10/15 05:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

All I can say about this post is Hell yea...!! Success through innovation.. Congrats... Great write up and very helpful in answering questions... Be Well... Inoc....


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22072865 - 08/10/15 06:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:thumbup:


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: nobody83]
    #22072919 - 08/10/15 06:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'll be good. Just keeping up. Know nothing worth adding. Can't wait to see the rest of your teks, I.


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #22114708 - 08/19/15 11:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

See guys now this thread can't even make it PAST page 1.  You can't have your cake and eat it too, I see.


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22114712 - 08/19/15 11:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'll message Bod, Space and Eatyu and bring another shit storm if it'll make you happy?


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: taGyo]
    #22114722 - 08/19/15 11:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm pretty sure your willingness to do that has nothing to do with whether or not it makes me happy.  You just wanna watch the world burn don't you? :lol:


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22114739 - 08/19/15 11:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:onfire:


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22114740 - 08/19/15 11:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Busted.

:hehehe:


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: taGyo]
    #22114888 - 08/19/15 11:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Have you noticed any difference between this and the regular old bucket tek? If it makes a difference, I'll try it out.


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Achillita]
    #22114910 - 08/20/15 12:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I haven't really run any tests, and I've changed the cultures that I've used between now and the time when I was using the bucket tek, so at most I can only say I haven't seen any negative differences.  I won't claim any positive differences because I can't prove them.  However, it's been said and it can be observed that mycelium generally likes coir to be on the cooked side, and I feel like the bucket tek doesn't adequately heat it for that effect.  Bucket tek works because coir doesn't give a shit.  That's not to say you can't at least try to do what you believe will make it a more palatable and efficient substrate material for your mycelium, right?

Maybe you already have oven bags laying around and don't have a bucket, though.  Or maybe your bucket doesn't have a lid and you can't keep the temp up inside of it.  It's really just a method to expand the options that people might not realize are available due to all the general dos and don'ts you hear here.

If you're comfortable with the bucket tek though, I really don't think I'll be able to say anything to sway you.  It's a step or two easier than this method and if you don't notice a difference, the easier route is better.  I'm not about to put my reputation on the line and say it's better only to be proven wrong though. :lol:


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22114926 - 08/20/15 12:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I might try it, I actually don't have a bucket, so I do the bucket tek without a bucket... I just use my PC as a bucket, and wrap it in a blanket for better insulation.

But I'd love to see an experiment on this using a monoculture. If there's no differences, well now we know. IF there are, it makes your tek even better!


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Achillita]
    #22114946 - 08/20/15 12:14 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Well I don't have any monocultures kicking around, just a bunch of clones.  But maybe eventually I'll narrow one down and run a few to see what's what.


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22132031 - 08/23/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm hoping to give this a shot if I can get some clean jars happening, things have not been going so great though, tried agar, tried vendor syringes....vert or mold everytime I go to fruit:mad2:


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: newera]
    #22132218 - 08/23/15 06:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Are you able to transfer from agar to agar without other stuff popping up in the dish?  That's the first step.  Once you can do that you basically want to maintain the same level of technique when putting it to the jar, which may mean using a plastic one piece lid instead of the two piece metal banded lid to simplify a little.  I recently made the switch after years of using metal lids and it's a world of difference when it comes time to inoculate grain or G2G.  Seen Munchauzen's SAB sterile tech videos?


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22132253 - 08/23/15 06:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I actually just stick a piece of tape on my lids(micropore) so they act like a one piece lid, my first couple of transfers get the odd contam pop up but normally i get good clean growth and i can't spot anything wrong with my grain jars, I stopped g2ging even because I've just had issues, idk maybe i need to go over my sab technique again:shrug:
I've tried shaking grain spawn to see how they recover and they recover just fine, they smell great at spawning, I've had a little success getting a decent flush but then i find green mold after the dunk but vert has been a pain in my ass for almost a year and I have even moved since it started


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: newera]
    #22133491 - 08/24/15 12:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I've used nothing but metal lids to date, and I have to say I'm getting pretty tired of em.
Where you mofos buy your lids?


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Buck513]
    #22133787 - 08/24/15 03:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Same place you get your jars


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: newera]
    #22133918 - 08/24/15 04:40 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I got mine at target, and some at walmart.  No noticeable difference.  Ball brand & mainstays I think.


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22267421 - 09/20/15 10:30 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Dude.. BIB Tek.. (Bag in bucket).. I'll say,"flawless victory"... This hybrid Bucket tek, has less mess and cooking it @200 so that its plateable for myc... Gave at least 2 day earlier pin porn.. In a test they conducted @ a time honored college... 9-10 preferred... The other one was laughing in fits and was complaining of being short of breath...?


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Post are for fictional purposes... Never have I had experience in anything mentioned in this forum.. Or will I ever, I just like to write a bunch of fiction for entertainment purposes.. Don't believe a single thing... All pictures and videos were used with respective owners permission.. And found elsewhere on the net... Not all views and opinions are necessary affiliated with JohnnyR1ngo or his affliates... Be Well....


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: JohnnyR1ngo]
    #22278837 - 09/23/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Added a few pictures, doesn't really tell you anything you didn't already know, but... Maybe it'll help somebody with a low attention span or something. :shrug:


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OfflineYpsiGro
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #22707545 - 12/27/15 11:08 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I am sorry if I missed it. I was reading, and I got the part that it should be enough for 66qttub with 6qts spawn. But could you please shoot me an approximate like 12Qts or 10Qts of sub please. I am a noob just trying to get by.
Thanks


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OfflinePsilosoulful
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: YpsiGro]
    #22707638 - 12/27/15 11:50 PM (8 years, 1 month ago)

10 quarts of sub would work perfectly.
Ideally, you want to aim for between a 1:1 and a 1:2 ratio.


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OfflineYpsiGro
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Psilosoulful]
    #22708524 - 12/28/15 08:56 AM (8 years, 1 month ago)

I want to make 2 bags at a time. Same recipe. I have 2 aluminum cheap roaster pans. I want to put CVG in them, and then put one on the top and one on the center rack, each in roaster pan. Not touching sides or even rack.

Will that work as far as you can tell, and should it be left cooking a little longer?


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: YpsiGro]
    #23157322 - 04/26/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

If it wasn't recommended yet -----I would put the bag on a pan or inside of an aluminum tray-------- Oven racks can have edges that can easily rip through the oven bags (I found this out the hard way).


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: jppwd]
    #23157427 - 04/26/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

I've done it both ways and my oven doesn't seem to have that issue so, user discretion. :shrug:


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #23157579 - 04/26/16 03:20 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

lOOk, lOOk,
INocUole is sharing his secrets

goooooooD, job, bro

:themoreyouknow:


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: blackdust]
    #23157787 - 04/26/16 04:22 PM (7 years, 9 months ago)

Look what the cat unbanned! :eek:


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: blackdust] * 1
    #23159761 - 04/26/16 11:20 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

blackdust said:
lOOk, lOOk,
INocUole is sharing his secrets

goooooooD, job, bro

:themoreyouknow:




.... This thread is 8 months old, I'm not sharing shit.

:themoreyouknow:


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #23161052 - 04/27/16 11:31 AM (7 years, 8 months ago)

gooooooD
cause i got my own shit to share :wink:


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OfflineMycOperandi
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: blackdust]
    #23199649 - 05/07/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 8 months ago)

Doing this "TEK" right now, the bun is in the oven. Thanks Inocuole!
:wink:


Edited by MycOperandi (05/07/16 05:16 PM)


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #23541702 - 08/14/16 06:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I believe I just found my new prep method for coir!  Makes perfect sense, especially cooking the coir to make it easier on the myc!

Awesome tek, thanks for sharingj!

  :whoo:


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #24241859 - 04/13/17 10:00 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

This is an old thread, but I imagine the tek is still valid...that being said I have a couple questions...I really wanna try this out because it solves my problems of what to do with the giant bag of verm lying around, and the bag of gypsum I havent made much use of. So, (total noob question, be advised) after I do all this prep work, what do I do next? Essentially im asking you what steps are needed after preparation to get mushies growing on it.


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: mushroom_therapy]
    #24241899 - 04/13/17 10:12 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Put a few quart jars of spawn with it.
Wait a few days.
Then fruit.


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: mynakedrat]
    #24242028 - 04/13/17 10:59 PM (6 years, 9 months ago)

Thank you!!


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Offlinedont trust midgets
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: Inocuole]
    #25115444 - 04/05/18 09:07 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

I know it and old thread, but I just wanted to say thanks for such an easy to follow tek! :thumbup: Im using this now for my first attempt at bulk so I hope all goes well.


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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: dont trust midgets]
    #25140334 - 04/15/18 07:20 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

dont trust midgets said:
I know it and old thread, but I just wanted to say thanks for such an easy to follow tek! :thumbup: Im using this now for my first attempt at bulk so I hope all goes well.




Since it's bumped anyway, wanted to say thanks as well.  I love this technique for its ease and practicality.

I primarily use CVG so this works great for me.

I recommend using zip ties on the tops of the bags, you can slide a meat thermometer in there while you apply it if desired, then fully tighten once removed/finished, then you have pre-pasteurized compost just chilling in a turkey bag air tight, like I do now.  The black heavy duty ones survive 15psi @ 2 hours just fine, that's what I use for my spawn bags; can't bring myself to worry about impulse sealers, clamps and tape anymore.

If it's too dry, add some boiling water.  If it's too wet, add some vermiculite to reach field capacity.

Also, optionally as a note taken out of Frank's book, you could premix everything and allow it to expand, then dump it in the turkey bag and tie it off.  I recommend this for larger batches/multiple bags.

:mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2::mushroom2:

+1


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InvisibleMushroomOfLife
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Teks [Re: plurfekt]
    #25140567 - 04/15/18 09:25 AM (5 years, 9 months ago)

The OP referrex to this as halfway between a sterilisation and pasteurisation... how does it compare to BOD’s most recent coir tek?

Which is likely to be more contam resistant?
And would leaving a partially pasterurised bag (and well sealed) lying by around make it more stable and possibly contaminated resistant?


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OfflineTendoc123
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Re: A Coir Tek Among a Sea of Endless Coir Tekski [Re: Inocuole]
    #26313208 - 11/11/19 08:18 AM (4 years, 2 months ago)

So can I use this mixed with rye berries for a substrate? Getting a lot of small fruits using rye only. I feel like I don't have enough nutrients.


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