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Offlinemyclops
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Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 92
Last seen: 3 years, 9 days
Sterilizing grain spawn in filter bags
    #22072319 - 08/10/15 03:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I have been using the simplest method of sterilizing grain in quart jars with great success. Measure 200 grams grain, 220 grams water, 1/4 tspn gypsum, pressure cook 90 minutes, shake when cool enough to handle, and inoculate.

I need to step it up to using spawn bags so I can make more grain per run on the pressure cooker but doing the whole soak, rinse, simmer method seems unnecessary based on the success I've had just measuring the ingredients and going for it.

I'm wondering if anyone out there has used the tek described above (no soak, no rinse, no simmer) but in spawn bags? Measure a given amount of grain and water in the spawn bag and PC. I feel in theory it should work and I'm going to do a test run either way but I'm hoping someone out there can give me some good starting numbers.

Thanks Shroomery community


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Sterilizing grain spawn in filter bags [Re: myclops]
    #22072407 - 08/10/15 04:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I would guess no, but if you have like an hour to spare you can prep your wbs this way: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5265629/fpart/all/vc/1

I do 20-40lbs at a time. Use your PC(s) to boil water & a 5gal bucket to hold the seed. 15 minutes to boil water, 30 minutes to hydrate, 15 minutes to strain = 20lbs ready to load grain one hour


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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Offlinemyclops
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Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 92
Last seen: 3 years, 9 days
Re: Sterilizing grain spawn in filter bags [Re: filthyknees]
    #22072979 - 08/10/15 06:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

filthyknees said:
I would guess no, but if you have like an hour to spare you can prep your wbs this way: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5265629/fpart/all/vc/1

I do 20-40lbs at a time. Use your PC(s) to boil water & a 5gal bucket to hold the seed. 15 minutes to boil water, 30 minutes to hydrate, 15 minutes to strain = 20lbs ready to load grain one hour





I have a butt-ton of rye grain. Wonder if this would work with rye? I feel like because you don't let the seed/grain dry like you would if you soaked and simmered, there is still a fair amount of water in the jars when you PC them, which gets absorbed during pressure cooking.

You said use 5 gallon buckets to hold the seed...are you just talking about storing the seed dry?


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Invisiblefilthyknees
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Re: Sterilizing grain spawn in filter bags [Re: myclops]
    #22073009 - 08/10/15 06:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

oh yeah sorry I could not be of help that link is for wbs. good luck.


--------------------
But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go
If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow
That it's one thing to try and another to fly
You get there quicker just a step at a time
It's one thing to bark, another to bite
The show ain't over till you pack up at night


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Sterilizing grain spawn in filter bags [Re: filthyknees]
    #22073093 - 08/10/15 06:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

yea, it will work with rye.
i dont do my rye exactly like that, but i just soak overnight in buckets (warm-room temp water), drain no more than 1 hour if fan dried, load bags, PC.  no simmer.





--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Offlinemyclops
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Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 92
Last seen: 3 years, 9 days
Re: Sterilizing grain spawn in filter bags [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22075460 - 08/11/15 09:09 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
yea, it will work with rye.
i dont do my rye exactly like that, but i just soak overnight in buckets (warm-room temp water), drain no more than 1 hour if fan dried, load bags, PC.  no simmer.








Would you mind elaborating a little?

1. So after soaking overnight(<24hours?) you dry the outside of the grains using a fan blowing on them? They go into the filter bags relatively dry on the outside?

2.How many pounds/cups of soaked grain do you load in your bags?

3. How long do you PC and how many bags in how large of a PC'er?

4. Do you inoculate them with liquid or do you do G2G?


Sorry about all the questions, just trying to reduce the amount of time and money I blow with trial and error, ya know?

Thanks!


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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Sterilizing grain spawn in filter bags [Re: myclops]
    #22075515 - 08/11/15 09:19 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

i don't time it anymore, just overnight.  i'll squeeze a grain if I'm not sure it was long enough, and make sure it pops like a pimple.
u WANT the grains to be wet on the outside, because they are not simmered, so that extra water absorbs during the PC cycle.  i use 2 tablespoons gypsum and 2 tablespoons limestone per 12 hydrated qts of grain.  i do not add it before the soak, i add it after they are drained, and before loading the bags.  u can just use 4 TBS gypsum if u can't find limestone and vice versa.

just strain it for an hour tops. sometimes i put it in the sun, or just anywhere outside


if you are growing cubes in tubs, it depends how high u want ur spawn ratio to be.  i like 1:4 ratio, so i add 4 qts of grain.  u can add more.  i would not go about ~9 lbs total weight in bags (including what will be poured in from donor jar) because, depending on the company that makes ur bags, they can tear.

a fully loaded 941 i PC for 3.5 hours (6 bags at 9 lbs each)
for a 921, i do 2.5 hours (4 bags @ 4qts each)

if u choose to simmer ur grain, u can cut a half hour off both those times.  but IMO, thats an extra step, and i'd rather cut that out and add that time to the PC instead of doing a simmer.  just makes more sense to me, but to each their own.

i always use g2g for bags.  i have done LI>bags, and i liked that, but, fiddling around with the blender and blade assembly and all that was an annoying thing to count on from day to day.  so if i do LI>bags its usually a once in a while thing.


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Invisibletahoe
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Registered: 11/26/03
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Re: Sterilizing grain spawn in filter bags [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22076573 - 08/11/15 02:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Myclops. I used to do it that way for years, still do on occasion if there is extra room in the pc and I do not have simmered grain ready.

The only benefit of the whole soak simmer process when it comes to wild bird seed is consistency. I have no problems with contams from not soaking it first. Rye berries are a different story.

If your way of doing grain is working for you, then don't change it. I just hated trying to bust up the lump of grain in the jar after cooking it. But you say you are shaking the jars while still warm, so that will take care of the problem.

Here is what I do.  Fill a big pot half way with seed, then fill with water about 3 inches higher than the seed. Bring to a boil , then let simmer until I like the looks of the grain.  Sometimes I will pick a few out and crush them. Check to see if they are full of water.
Then dump them in a colander and rinse with hot water. I let the grain drain off excess water and then start filling the jars/ bags.

I was filling 1/2g jars with 5 cups of simmered grain,  x 4 jars in my 921. Now I am using the small and medium bags. I get 7+ cups of seed in the small bag and can fit 5 bags easily into the 921. So I have increased my grain production big time.

You will really like mixing your grain and water in a bag and pc'ing. Still no need to do the whole soak simmer of you don't want. And the lump of grain is ready to break up in the bags.
Yes, rambling. I am sitting inn the office


--------------------
Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.


My Legacy
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987

Teh=The
I need to proofread


Edited by tahoe (08/11/15 02:35 PM)


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Offlinemyclops
Stranger
Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 92
Last seen: 3 years, 9 days
Re: Sterilizing grain spawn in filter bags [Re: blindingleaf]
    #22101444 - 08/17/15 04:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
i don't time it anymore, just overnight.  i'll squeeze a grain if I'm not sure it was long enough, and make sure it pops like a pimple.
u WANT the grains to be wet on the outside, because they are not simmered, so that extra water absorbs during the PC cycle.  i use 2 tablespoons gypsum and 2 tablespoons limestone per 12 hydrated qts of grain.  i do not add it before the soak, i add it after they are drained, and before loading the bags.  u can just use 4 TBS gypsum if u can't find limestone and vice versa.

just strain it for an hour tops. sometimes i put it in the sun, or just anywhere outside


if you are growing cubes in tubs, it depends how high u want ur spawn ratio to be.  i like 1:4 ratio, so i add 4 qts of grain.  u can add more.  i would not go about ~9 lbs total weight in bags (including what will be poured in from donor jar) because, depending on the company that makes ur bags, they can tear.

a fully loaded 941 i PC for 3.5 hours (6 bags at 9 lbs each)
for a 921, i do 2.5 hours (4 bags @ 4qts each)

if u choose to simmer ur grain, u can cut a half hour off both those times.  but IMO, thats an extra step, and i'd rather cut that out and add that time to the PC instead of doing a simmer.  just makes more sense to me, but to each their own.

i always use g2g for bags.  i have done LI>bags, and i liked that, but, fiddling around with the blender and blade assembly and all that was an annoying thing to count on from day to day.  so if i do LI>bags its usually a once in a while thing.




Thanks, this is very helpful. I appreciate it.


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Offlinemyclops
Stranger
Registered: 06/08/06
Posts: 92
Last seen: 3 years, 9 days
Re: Sterilizing grain spawn in filter bags [Re: myclops]
    #22101447 - 08/17/15 04:31 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
i don't time it anymore, just overnight.  i'll squeeze a grain if I'm not sure it was long enough, and make sure it pops like a pimple.
u WANT the grains to be wet on the outside, because they are not simmered, so that extra water absorbs during the PC cycle.  i use 2 tablespoons gypsum and 2 tablespoons limestone per 12 hydrated qts of grain.  i do not add it before the soak, i add it after they are drained, and before loading the bags.  u can just use 4 TBS gypsum if u can't find limestone and vice versa.

just strain it for an hour tops. sometimes i put it in the sun, or just anywhere outside


if you are growing cubes in tubs, it depends how high u want ur spawn ratio to be.  i like 1:4 ratio, so i add 4 qts of grain.  u can add more.  i would not go about ~9 lbs total weight in bags (including what will be poured in from donor jar) because, depending on the company that makes ur bags, they can tear.

a fully loaded 941 i PC for 3.5 hours (6 bags at 9 lbs each)
for a 921, i do 2.5 hours (4 bags @ 4qts each)

if u choose to simmer ur grain, u can cut a half hour off both those times.  but IMO, thats an extra step, and i'd rather cut that out and add that time to the PC instead of doing a simmer.  just makes more sense to me, but to each their own.

i always use g2g for bags.  i have done LI>bags, and i liked that, but, fiddling around with the blender and blade assembly and all that was an annoying thing to count on from day to day.  so if i do LI>bags its usually a once in a while thing.




Thanks, this is very helpful. I appreciate it.
Quote:

myclops said:
Quote:

blindingleaf said:
i don't time it anymore, just overnight.  i'll squeeze a grain if I'm not sure it was long enough, and make sure it pops like a pimple.
u WANT the grains to be wet on the outside, because they are not simmered, so that extra water absorbs during the PC cycle.  i use 2 tablespoons gypsum and 2 tablespoons limestone per 12 hydrated qts of grain.  i do not add it before the soak, i add it after they are drained, and before loading the bags.  u can just use 4 TBS gypsum if u can't find limestone and vice versa.

just strain it for an hour tops. sometimes i put it in the sun, or just anywhere outside


if you are growing cubes in tubs, it depends how high u want ur spawn ratio to be.  i like 1:4 ratio, so i add 4 qts of grain.  u can add more.  i would not go about ~9 lbs total weight in bags (including what will be poured in from donor jar) because, depending on the company that makes ur bags, they can tear.

a fully loaded 941 i PC for 3.5 hours (6 bags at 9 lbs each)
for a 921, i do 2.5 hours (4 bags @ 4qts each)

if u choose to simmer ur grain, u can cut a half hour off both those times.  but IMO, thats an extra step, and i'd rather cut that out and add that time to the PC instead of doing a simmer.  just makes more sense to me, but to each their own.

i always use g2g for bags.  i have done LI>bags, and i liked that, but, fiddling around with the blender and blade assembly and all that was an annoying thing to count on from day to day.  so if i do LI>bags its usually a once in a while thing.




Thanks, this is very helpful. I appreciate it.




Thanks for the insight.


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