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anangaranga maiden
Stranger
Registered: 08/10/15
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Why does sexual love feel wrong? 1
#22071558 - 08/10/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hi everyone.
Ive been a lurker on here for aeons but now making an account just for this post i really need your advice guys! (and gals).
I was brought up in a loving home. Both my parents were hippies and they met and fell in love in India in the world of free love and LSD and mushies. They were both virgins when they met and they have never been with any others. They are both practicing Hindus but with a fairly new age feel (lol!) and they have both helped to set up Ashrams in the US (California) and UK for couples wishing to explore Kama Sutra and Tantra.
So you can believe that i had a very open upbringing sexually. However, my parents taught me that the sexual energy in the western world, raunchy and provocative and x rated stuff like in hip hop and pop videos is a debasement of the feminine principle and that true sexual energy is altogether different. With this i completely agree and I dont act promiscuously and veer away from men who want that sort of thing.
My problem is that although I have had really intimate relationships with men, i never feel the moment is right to give myself up sexually. no matter how much sexual energy is burning me up. I feel like im waiting for the perfect moment. which never comes. I fear if i give in i will regret losing my innocence in a way that does fully live up.
I know this is silly and i need to set Kamaledhiplava adrift, but i panick when the moment comes and the man after some time loses interest and im left heart broken.
Can anyone give me a different view on how to get out of this thought pattern?
Has anyone else here felt like this?
Thanks for your advice that i know is coming x
Namaste
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ladyluck
Stranger
Registered: 08/10/15
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Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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I think maybe you are putting too much emphasis on the act of sex itself. If you keep building it up in your mind and not doing it, you may end up being disappointed in the long run. Give in and be happy
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HardTrippin
The Ambivalent



Registered: 11/05/09
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Loc: Canada
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Re: Why does sexual love feel wrong? [Re: ladyluck]
#22071688 - 08/10/15 01:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would make sure it's with a boyfriend that you feel strongly for though. You would probably regret it if you lost your virginity to some guy at a party because you were drinking. At least, it might give you the wrong impression of what sex can be.
I'm a male, but even I have to admit that sex with someone you love far outshines casual sex.
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anangaranga maiden
Stranger
Registered: 08/10/15
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Re: Why does sexual love feel wrong? [Re: HardTrippin]
#22071706 - 08/10/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey thanks for quick response!
I shudda said, in 26 and female. Yes all i think about is making love and i know the kama sutra inside out. I just panic at that last moment and think NO! its not fully right... but i was so in love with my alst boyfried and after 12 months of not consumating he just got too frustrated and ended it. I dont blame him becuase if he wasnt the right one then no one was.
Id love to know if anyone else has felt that fear and found a way to overcome it....without using wine or whiskey!
xxx
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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Your parents virginity before marriage aligns with the Hindu ideal, and so you probably subconsciously have a guilt complex associated with sex before marriage.
Overcoming taboo may involve risks of further guilt complexes.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Why does sexual love feel wrong? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#22072086 - 08/10/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I suspect's everyone's first time is very, very far from ideal. Mine certainly was, but that hasn't stopped my from sexuality maturing into a very caring and considerate lover (IMO), and from eventually finding my perfect sexual match. From reports I hear of current and ex-partners ex-lovers, it strikes me that most men are, IMO, quite sexually selfish, and are missing the point, concentrating only on the physical act and foregoing the amazing emotional connection that is, IMO, the whole point of sex. I have also been with women who I believe are missing the point, so this is not gender specific IME.
As with most things in life, I believe it is better to simply dive in head first, and then concentrate on 'fine tuning' and discovering your true path. I believe one can only do so when one has a certain number of experiences under ones belt. Invariably, they will cover the whole spectrum, from good to bad and everything in between.
It sounds like your parents lucked out with their first time, but this is an ideal that simply doesn't occur for most of us. As has been mentioned, I would never suggest giving it away without consideration, but I also suggest not holding back so much, as you'll only be further building on anxieties.
It's gonna happen sometime, it probably won't feel 'just right', but that doesn't mean that you're never gonna be with someone with who it does feel perfect. It just might take a while to find them, at that will invariably include working on these issues yourself.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
Edited by Jokeshopbeard (08/10/15 02:55 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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It would appear that you have introjected - taken into yourself - your parents' value of sexual love after marriage. Everyone and everything else will not eliminate this value and it should not have to. Virginity is not a condition to throw away, it is one to give away. Among the thousands of adolescent girls I worked with as a clinical counselor during my 27 year career, there were always some who believed all too materialistically (usually from ignorant grandmothers), that the use of a tampon or a speculum in a gynecological exam 'took away' their virginity. I would go so far as to say that even a sexual violation, a forcible rape, does not destroy virginity any more than a tampon does. Virginity is not about a physical act of penetration of a vagina any more than a human is merely "intelligent meat" and not a being - a spiritual verity. Giving away one's virginity is about a radical openness to a unique other, including physical openness, but extending beyond physicality to the openness of one's complete being.
Sexual love, eros, divinized perhaps by the Tantras and by Plato, but it is not the essential love called agapé in the New Testament and the metaphysical love which is how very God is defined (1 John 4:8). In between the divine and the profoundly earthly, the Greeks had a number of forms of love, and ideally, all of them should be in place in a marriage. The sexual, social, compassionate and divine forms of love also correspond to the chakras somewhat, and the chakra ladders of both partners should be able to connect like zipping up a zipper, merging both sides. For you, all these points of contact need to be magnetically drawn together without gaps for sex to feel right, meaning complete, whole, wholesome, holy. This is what effects the Marriage of Sun and Moon, not a mere hookup between Venus and Mars. 
http://www.yesmagazine.org/happiness/the-ancient-greeks-6-words-for-love-and-why-knowing-them-can-change-your-life?utm_source=FB&utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=20131227#.Ur7rEfzJtvU.facebook
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (08/10/15 08:51 PM)
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MushroomBear
Fun Guy



Registered: 07/05/15
Posts: 27
Loc: *redacted*
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Good sex can initially obfuscate the other aspects of a relationship which are of greater importance to its long term success. This is especially true for younger people, or anyone to whom sex is still a big driving force. I suspect this is why many religions frown upon sex before marriage (or some other milestone in a relationship).
Your views on sex seem quite doctrinal to me, but I also think they're fundamentally sound.
Sex eventually becomes an infinitesimal factor of a good relationship. IME, the most important thing is for each party to be able to recognise AND appreciate how the other expresses their love. Look out for this first and foremost, and let the sex take a backseat.
As an aside, why would you make an account here to discuss this issue in particular? I'm sure there are plenty of relationship forums around. But then again, who knows - maybe you'd get more bunk advice on one of those. Psychedelics are great for deepening one's understanding of true love.
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 5 minutes, 5 seconds
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Quote:
anangaranga maiden said: Hi everyone.
Ive been a lurker on here for aeons but now making an account just for this post i really need your advice guys! (and gals).
I was brought up in a loving home. Both my parents were hippies and they met and fell in love in India in the world of free love and LSD and mushies. They were both virgins when they met and they have never been with any others. They are both practicing Hindus but with a fairly new age feel (lol!) and they have both helped to set up Ashrams in the US (California) and UK for couples wishing to explore Kama Sutra and Tantra.
So you can believe that i had a very open upbringing sexually. However, my parents taught me that the sexual energy in the western world, raunchy and provocative and x rated stuff like in hip hop and pop videos is a debasement of the feminine principle and that true sexual energy is altogether different. With this i completely agree and I dont act promiscuously and veer away from men who want that sort of thing.
My problem is that although I have had really intimate relationships with men, i never feel the moment is right to give myself up sexually. no matter how much sexual energy is burning me up. I feel like im waiting for the perfect moment. which never comes. I fear if i give in i will regret losing my innocence in a way that does fully live up.
I know this is silly and i need to set Kamaledhiplava adrift, but i panick when the moment comes and the man after some time loses interest and im left heart broken.
Can anyone give me a different view on how to get out of this thought pattern?
Has anyone else here felt like this?
Thanks for your advice that i know is coming x
Namaste
Well if you're always waiting for the perfect moment, then it seems to me there are a few obvious directions to take
1) reassess your ideals - are they realistic? imagine this perfection and make a list of it's traits. how many of them have you come across in your time here? how realistic/unrealistic is your expectation?
2) consider that by saying you are "waiting for perfection" that you are conversely saying that what is here right now isn't perfect. That what is here isn't good enough. Consider how that may make a potential partner feel when, ultimately, your view is that they are not good enough.
3) Find a way to see the perfection all around you
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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anangaranga maiden
Stranger
Registered: 08/10/15
Posts: 178
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Why does sexual love feel wrong? [Re: Kickle]
#22076163 - 08/11/15 12:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey everyone thanks so much for your insghts.
I have definately realised something after consdiering what you have all said... I think the issue is, i want my mate to be a virgin too...that we both share the feeling of losing our innocence to each other. That way its like a gift to each other.
I really think that was what was missing. gifting each other in tht way and thats what my parent did, although they were not married and still are not (lol!) what they gave to each otehr was their innocence and that was what was magical!!!
Does that make sense? Do i need to fall in love with a virgin?!? It sounds crazy but....
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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You're not going to find too many desirable guys who are virgins at 26. I'd say give up that fantasy.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
Last seen: 5 minutes, 5 seconds
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Quote:
anangaranga maiden said: Hey everyone thanks so much for your insghts.
I have definately realised something after consdiering what you have all said... I think the issue is, i want my mate to be a virgin too...that we both share the feeling of losing our innocence to each other. That way its like a gift to each other.
I really think that was what was missing. gifting each other in tht way and thats what my parent did, although they were not married and still are not (lol!) what they gave to each otehr was their innocence and that was what was magical!!!
Does that make sense? Do i need to fall in love with a virgin?!? It sounds crazy but....
Need? No, of course not. But it may be what you want and that's OK until it's not. It seems to be working against you so far
To relate on a personal level I grew up with a very open father and a very conservative mother. I grew up with the ideal of virginity on one side and no comment on the other just a desire for my well-being. When I did finally have sex it was because I was overcome by primal urges. I was into my partners body full on. There was great sexual chemistry.
We split after a year or so together.
My current partner was a virgin before me. We are not married. But we have been together for 8 years and she is as far as I can tell my life partner. We have no intention to marry or to have kids. But between us there is an undeniable love for one another. I have said many times here that the most important quality for me about her has always been her heart. If for some reason her heart changes, that would be grounds for me leaving.
Is her heart, that purity, due to her having been a virgin? I doubt it. Did her heart keep her a virgin? Probably. Did she hold out when a guy who she deeply connected with came along? No. She listened to her heart. The sexual chemistry between us is mediocre at best, but the heart chemistry between us is bar-none.
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DisoRDeR
motional



Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
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Yeah, focusing on virginity as a selective trait is really going to narrow the field, but I can see how that might put you at ease.
I'm a dude who lost his virginity at 22 to someone I cared deeply for, and it was lovely. Through the subsequent unfolding and collapse of our relationship, my own sexual hangups and possessiveness were brought to light, and that was less lovely. There has been some growth since.
A person's sexual history is only relevant to me now inasmuch as as it informs their present outlook (and their potential for carrying a STI). I once idealized virginity in a partner, but in retrospect that was an expression of my own emotional immaturity and enculturation. It may be better to assess a potential partner's capacity to approach the sexual experience with a similar sensitivity and reverence to yours, rather than what their genitals have encountered.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
Last seen: 3 years, 2 days
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There is this relatively new contrivance of people aspiring to be "born-again virgins." They cease having sport-sex, hook-ups, or whatever you want to call casual sex in favor of beginning a new relationship by putting their 'non-sexual foot' forward, so-to-speak. Perhaps you might consider this new status in order to expand your potential population. It is not a bad idea to discuss sexual history with someone you'e interested in. The question is when. A lot of unscrupulous people want to 'deflower' a virgin just for bragging and egotistical motives (3rd chakra conquest) and may well lie about being a virgin. A true male virgin will disclose that with a certain timidity if genuine, so look for a sense of shyness or reticence when he's revealing that. I have observed a natural and at the same time spiritual 'order-of-operations,' much like that mnemonic device in mathematics with MDAS (My Dear Aunt Sally) referring to performing Multiplication, Division, Addition and Subtraction in that sequence in order to calculate an equation correctly.
In relationships, the 1st operation is Perception, the 2nd is Intellection, the 3rd, Emotion, and the 4th Sex (PIES). In other words: Senses -> Mind -> Heart -> Loins. The other has to be attractive to all the senses (sight, hearing, touch, smell, then touch and taste). One has to be of like mind, especially with regard to values. The forgoing is going to move one emotionally, part of which flows over into desire to become more intimate, eventuating in sexual union. People who become sexual immediately often think they've fallen out of love when the novelty and intensity wanes. Sex, like drugs or a new car for that matter, wears thin after a while. Buddhism knows this to be true about all of existence. Most people do not know of the forms of love which the Greeks categorized and do not have much discernment themselves. First engage the higher chakras, then the middle, and then the lower ones, if you are truly interested in a long-term relationship. I could write at length about what tends to happen if one engages the sexual center or the power center first, sex in the service of the ego (power), or power in the service of sex both manifest in ways that exclude love, communication, or even survival considerations (like having unprotected sex in my city - Miami - the AIDS capital of the USA).
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Goose
Student of life



Registered: 02/23/07
Posts: 246
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
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every moment is perfect. i havent had sex for over 12 years just hasnt felt right. so i understad what your talking about. at the same time you can wait for ever for conditions to be right in your mind but that might not happen. the mind can build things up way to much.
relationships are harder than sex.
-------------------- "i will study and prepare myself so that when my opportunity comes i will be ready" Abraham Lincoln
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yeah


Registered: 02/08/09
Posts: 3,729
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Man, that writer is on point when he says America is dangerously short on love for strangers.
People just don't give a fuck about anyone but them and their own, it's un-American as fuck IMO
but to respond to the OP: I pm'd if you haven't noticed. I can explain more if you want.
--------------------
Edited by yeah (08/11/15 10:14 PM)
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AllGreyThumbs
Storage Container Aficionado


Registered: 09/18/12
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Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: Why does sexual love feel wrong? [Re: yeah]
#22080119 - 08/12/15 06:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You place way to much emphasis on arbitrary self imposed rules. Can't do this, have to that. Yada, yada, yada. Screw that (no pun intended).
Live more from the soul and less from the mind. Stop analyzing. When the moment feels right just do it and be done with it.
If it later turns out that it might not have been the right time, then acknowledge and learn from it. Realize that as long as you are learning nothing can be a mistake.
Physical sex is so arbitrary from a spiritual perspective. It doesn't matter whether people are virgins or if they've had a dozen partners. Again, what matters is if they are doing their best to live from their highest self. That may call them to be free and open with their love, it may call them to want things to be special.
At this point it is so built up you might even be better off to just go screw some random stranger, put all of this behind you, and then with a much less confused and crowded state of mind think about what you really want in a life partner.
Seriously. You are letting some petty and very literal issue that doesn't matter distract you from having a happier life. Find someone that seems to be a decent person. Fuck them. Move on.
The mistake isn't screwing the wrong person, it is living from the mind and not the soul.
-------------------- I only use drugs medicinally. If I don't my knees hurt from kneeling down.
Edited by AllGreyThumbs (08/12/15 06:50 AM)
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Why does sexual love feel wrong? [Re: AllGreyThumbs]
#22081123 - 08/12/15 12:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
AllGreyThumbs said: Physical sex is so arbitrary from a spiritual perspective. It doesn't matter whether people are virgins or if they've had a dozen partners. Again, what matters is if they are doing their best to live from their highest self. That may call them to be free and open with their love, it may call them to want things to be special.
Really well said AGT, this paragraph especially. I couldn't agree more.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Why does sexual love feel wrong? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#22081216 - 08/12/15 12:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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As an aside, I would ask the question; 'How well can you know yourself unless you've explored your sexual nature?'
To me, it's like keeping your absolute deepest desires and animal nature hidden from yourself. I would encourage any friend of mine who had not yet done so to explore that side of themself as soon as they could, if not yet done so by the same age you have reached anangaranga maiden.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Why does sexual love feel wrong? [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#22081663 - 08/12/15 02:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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^^Listen to these guys, this is the best advice you're going to get. Your thoughts are obviously consumed with sex, so just do it. It's appallingly clear that you need to get this out of your system asap, so that you can move on to more important business.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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