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OfflinePerceptive
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Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality
    #22071417 - 08/10/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If I have free time to meditate/yoga all day, then
would just meditation be better than Psychedelics?


Its safer.


I just wonder if it would be over all "better" to try to reach enlightenment through meditation/yoga than through entheogens.

Cuz Psychedelics seem to be like a cheat code.


Opinions?


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OfflineKongo69
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: Perceptive]
    #22071460 - 08/10/15 12:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

What's wrong with cheat codes? up up down down left right left right B A start.

Hells yeah :grin:


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: Perceptive] * 2
    #22071472 - 08/10/15 12:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I guess it depends on your definition of "enlightenment", whether it's this one-time experience you have, or a state you live in for the rest of your life. IMHO it's the latter, and for that reason I think you cannot reach "enlightenment" from using psychedelics alone. Psychedelics have shown me different aspects of reality, and they have even given me the chance to experience states that are accessible through meditation, but as soon as it wears off, I came down, and most of what I thought I had gained from the trip was gone until the next time I dosed. Sure, the perspective I found from taking psychs really did help me out in life, it did undo some of the programming, but a lasting and permanent enlightenment? Nope.

The thing about meditation is that as well as being able to sit there and (after some practice) enter into higher or mystical states of awareness, it also totally changes your mind during you waking life. It's not just, you meditate for an hour a day and it stops there. You try and bring added awareness into all aspects of your life, waking, meditating, sleeping. For a person to be truly "enlightened", by my definition, they are walking around in complete awareness all of the time, and that kind of training the mind can not be achieved by taking psychedelics as far as I'm aware.

In short, I definitely wouldn't be on the spiritual path if it weren't for psychs. They have opened my eyes to so many possibilities. But they definitely are not a path in and of itself. Useful in the beginning yes, but a distraction from true realisation in the end.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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OfflineMajickMuffin
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: PocketLady]
    #22071492 - 08/10/15 12:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Meditate ON psychedelics.:aaaargh:


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: Perceptive]
    #22071493 - 08/10/15 12:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I tend to concur with PocketLady on this :smile:

of course though, you will have to see what works best for you. meditation is usually somewhat slow to show results, but the results are much more stable and lasting imo. and as PocketLady said, the most effective spiritual practice is one which includes all aspects of life - not just every so often when on a psychedelic. meditation can flow into all aspects of one's life, and really strengthen one's baseline state of awareness. will psychedelics still have a role to play? that's up to each person to decide - i personally have found that they aren't important to me anymore, but they did play a big role in initally getting my foot in the door with spirituality :smile:

best wishes to you on your journey ! :sun:


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: deff]
    #22071561 - 08/10/15 12:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Psychedelics are gifts given to us for healing and guidance, not for enlightenment. They can set one on a good course. They also have dangers.

The only potential exception to this which I have found is the fly agaric mushroom. There is a reason Gordon Wasson called it the divine mushroom of immortality. This mushroom works like no other psychedelic, and it can fill one with the Christ light and potentially grant a prepared person immortality just like the Holy Eucharist we possess in the Church, only this is nature's Eucharist.


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InvisibleBayerPhi
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: Deviate]
    #22071719 - 08/10/15 01:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not trying to be facetious, or start an opinion war about someone.
But an admin here, Asante, has undergone some kind of positive changes through what seems to be his use of various dissociative - mainly MXE.
What is this, or what could it be? I don't know whether the guy meditates or not, but whatever it is has seem to have worked for him.


--------------------
Μανθάνων μὴ κάμνε

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:chemistry: Stains, Reagents, and Media :alert:

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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: BayerPhi]
    #22071754 - 08/10/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BayerPhi said:
I'm not trying to be facetious, or start an opinion war about someone.
But an admin here, Asante, has undergone some kind of positive changes through what seems to be his use of various dissociative - mainly MXE.
What is this, or what could it be? I don't know whether the guy meditates or not, but whatever it is has seem to have worked for him.




What do you mean what is it? That experience was therapeutic for him in some way. I don't understand your purpose in bringing this up. Shouldn't he be the one you ask if you want to know how it benefited him?


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InvisibleBayerPhi
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: PocketLady]
    #22071782 - 08/10/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yes they were.
I brought it up thinking about what PocketLady said:

Quote:

PocketLady said:
.... Psychedelics have shown me different aspects of reality, and they have even given me the chance to experience states that are accessible through meditation, but as soon as it wears off, I came down, and most of what I thought I had gained from the trip was gone until the next time I dosed. Sure, the perspective I found from taking psychs really did help me out in life, it did undo some of the programming, but a lasting and permanent enlightenment? Nope.






Stemming from this reasoning was my purpose of bringing it up, as it can be and is obviously observed.

EDIT: To clarify myself better on why I am not asking him about it, is because he is the example.  Whether through realization on drugs or after drugs something has stuck, and I think anyone observing this forum can see that.


Edited by BayerPhi (08/10/15 01:45 PM)


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: BayerPhi]
    #22072618 - 08/10/15 05:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not saying you can't take anything away from trips, which I referred to in my other post. Of course psychs do have positive effects. As I said, I think it comes down to what "enlightenment" means to you. "Some kind of positive change" doesn't resonate with me.

By permanent realisation, I don't mean something that changes your perception, or an experience which permanently effects how your view the world. Psychs can do that to a certain extent. I mean in the way it is talked about in some spiritual paths i.e when a person (or the personality) becomes permanently and consciously one with God/source/oneness, true liberation from samsara etc. Psychs can let you experience oneness temporarily, but I don't think they can make it permanent unless a lot of other work is done.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


Edited by PocketLady (08/10/15 05:13 PM)


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InvisibleBayerPhi
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: PocketLady]
    #22072679 - 08/10/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
I'm not saying you can't take anything away from trips, which I referred to in my other post. Of course psychs do have positive effects. As I said, I think it comes down to what "enlightenment" means to you. "Some kind of positive change" doesn't resonate with me.




Right. I agree, are they even beneficial towards enlightenment? Is there a possibility that they could set one back in a delusion? Do these things (Psychs;Dissos), even push or influence one towards a sense of "true" enlightenment? Or are they strictly a metaphysical textbook for someone to learn from as one paves their way through meditation?


--------------------
Μανθάνων μὴ κάμνε

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:chemistry: Stains, Reagents, and Media :alert:

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OfflineLove_spirit
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: Perceptive]
    #22072892 - 08/10/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)


meditation was only useful when I was at a point in  life where I had a lot of questions about Love, Life, spirituality and a very active inner dialogue that bounced all over the place, Negative intrusive thoughts and all. There came a point in my journey when all questions where answered magnificently in one fell swoop. This created the peace of inner silence after which meditation was no longer needed.


Edited by Love_spirit (08/10/15 06:09 PM)


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OfflinePerceptive
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: BayerPhi]
    #22073713 - 08/10/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

im pretty sure psychedelics can definitly be a catalyst towards enlightenment.


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: Perceptive]
    #22075706 - 08/11/15 10:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

First of all, there is no such thing as a permanent state of anything. That said, psychedelics can teach you how to live a life in accordance with the absurdity of What Is much better than meditation can. There is some evidence to suggest that meditation might be good for helping anxiety or relaxing or controlling anger and ptsd and such but other than that it is a waste of time imo.


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InvisibleChronic7
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: Perceptive]
    #22075840 - 08/11/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Nothing is better than meditation :levitate:

Nobody really reaches enlightenment through entheogens, we can just get a taste of it, and really the same goes for meditation.

In my opinion truly waking up is something that goes beyond all methods, as the methods are ultimately part of the dream, but until then we make use of them and a sober practice like meditation will probably awaken you to a deeper peace than the rollercoaster of an entheogenic experience. If you are going to use entheogens then being an experienced meditator is one of the best ways to get the most out of it and integrate the experiences into daily life.


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: Chronic7]
    #22204301 - 09/07/15 08:26 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I just saw this thread

Psychedelics seem to get your foot in the door. I think they are great tools. But IMO I used to drop acid and then feel great for a week and at peace. But quickly that peace went back to just day to day living. I feel like practicing the "dao"/jainism/buddhism/hinduism is the most significant step I have made in this direction

My life has changed and done a complete 180 flip through meditation and faiths of the east. My practice consists of reading a few minutes daily and meditating for about 30-1 hour. Simply doing this daily has changed my life. I think meditation itself has been one of the most powerful tools I have stumbled upon.

My psychedelics trips before and after I began my "practice" are completely different. My trips go deeper and stay more under control. Afterwards I feel much better too. OP I highly reccomend meditation. I think I would be addicted and in jail or suicidally depressed by now if I didnt start 2-3 years ago


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OfflinePerceptive
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: topdog82]
    #22212304 - 09/09/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 4 months ago)

thanks for the reply dude.


That was touching, the last paragraph .

Because severe mental illness from a bad shroom trip (depersonalization) made me really fucked up ...... suicidal etc... and meditation/yoga really put me on the right track. taught me that thoughts are just thuoghts.

Feeling like a little kid again, sober.


I am at the point where Im depressed about how ignorant I am. Like how I think im SOOOO good at everything.....

Interesting, sounds great! tripping under control.


Yeah i 100% agree


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: Perceptive]
    #22215552 - 09/10/15 05:11 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

But then again, I think it's all cultural imprints on our society.  I mean sure meditation sounds fun.  But I personally don't have the time to spend 20 years sweeping an Ashram up in order to put my consciousness where it needs to go. 

Also on another note I'd have to say that it seems to me "enlightenment" is a journey.  In western culture I doubt you'd have much chance at ego loss 24/7.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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Offlinetopdog82
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: TheGreenArrow]
    #22215713 - 09/10/15 07:10 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TheGreenArrow said:
But then again, I think it's all cultural imprints on our society.  I mean sure meditation sounds fun.  But I personally don't have the time to spend 20 years sweeping an Ashram up in order to put my consciousness where it needs to go. 

Also on another note I'd have to say that it seems to me "enlightenment" is a journey.  In western culture I doubt you'd have much chance at ego loss 24/7.



Lol you dont have to. I spend 15 minutes per day. and I feel I grow deeply. On the weekends I do up to 2-3 hours though


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OfflineTheGreenArrow
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Re: Meditation better than Psychedelics?! - spirituality [Re: topdog82]
    #22215767 - 09/10/15 07:34 AM (8 years, 4 months ago)

I already do that. :lol:  It does get into that "psychedelic" state even while I'm at work. :lolsy:  I usually do some form of Crowlean/Sufi meditation about "why I'm doing that exersice and just work further and further back untill I'm out in the cosmos... :zoom: 

It's a neat exercise actually.


--------------------
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an
invasion, butcher a hog, design a building, conn a ship, write a
sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the
dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve an
equation, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a
computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.
Specialization is for insects.- Robert A. Heinlein
Saint RedBow of the Shroomey Loomey-Patron Saint of Sandbaggin Sumbitchs


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