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OfflineLoveNaborFuckHater
That one guy


Registered: 02/13/15
Posts: 861
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Why do they jump?
    #22070297 - 08/10/15 01:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

(Skip to third paragraph for no background) went to the fair today tripping on LSD, really enjoyed it. Loved the rides until I got to the ferris wheel, which I thought I'd be the most comfortable on while tripping.

Turns out the ferris wheel was not for me. Unlike all the other rides I was not secured in at all, they just put a bar in front of us that I could have easily just stood up and climbed out of at the top of the wheel if I pleased. This freaked me out.

So I got to thinking while I was up there. Why would anyone in their right mind want to jump while tripping? I hear stories of people jumping from buildings while tripping and they really give our community a bad wrap. But I don't see what would drive them to do it? Could it be the feeling of "I'm on LSD nothing can affect me everything will be fine when I comedown"? I thought this one over and came to the conclusion that you really would have to be out of your right mind to have to do this even while tripping. A user peaking will still be able to realize the effects of their decisions though this may take a very thorough thought process. Maybe there's less inhibition as you go up into dosage but I felt as though you can still reach inner sanity while tripping if you dig deep enough. I still felt very in control of my actions. Maybe this is where they let go? They enter the mindset of allowing the drug to control their actions.

I really thought hard about what drives people to jump while I was up there. I think there's gotta be some pre-suicidal thoughts going into the trip or a full realization while tripping of what a depressing life they've led.

Maybe they jump becuase they don't know how to handle a bad trip so they just leap from it.  I really thought about you guys on this one. I've learned how to handle bad trips and I would have felt bad to jump while tripping making the psychedelic community look bad. But besides that I felt like this is a legitimate reason someone could jump. They just get so distraught in their bad trip and don't even take a second thought for their actions before jumping.

Being mentally unstable is probably one of the most leading favors of them all.

What other reason can you think of for people jumping? The news seems to convey to us that people jump because they are tripping, not due to a pre-existing mental illness, depression, and especially suicidal thoughts that this person more than likely had months before this trip. They focus on the drug and not the person.

Discuss intelligently.


--------------------
"They told me drugs were bad, oh man, oh man, they had me fooled"


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Offlinemy3rdeye
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: LoveNaborFuckHater]
    #22070395 - 08/10/15 03:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

"I think there's gotta be some pre-suicidal thoughts going into the trip or a full realization while tripping of what a depressing life they've led."


Pretty much. There used to be this fucking media bullshit where they said the tripper thought he could fly. A fair number are probably death from misadventure, they didn't mean to jump, they didn't think they could fly, they were just tripping and they fell.
This all started with the death of Art Linkletter's daughter who was suicidal and jumped and probably wasn't even on LSD. Of course no one wants to admit their kid is suicidal and blaming LSD is easier. I don't even think there have been that many LSD suicides, it's probably more an urban legend or drug war scare tactic. I would say you are way more likely to get hurt or die by accident.


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: LoveNaborFuckHater]
    #22070397 - 08/10/15 03:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Can you provide actual evidence and not hearsay that jumping is a common thing people tripping do? I've always just assumed it was bullshit propaganda. I've never seen any evidence that tripping has produced a higher rate of jumpers, therefore the action cannot be blamed on the drug. People aren't jumping because they're tripping, they're jumping because they want to jump.

The common idea is that people are so high they start believe they can fly or some bullshit along those lines. I've never known anyone to trip to believe such things. Their perceptions and thought processes may be skewed, but they still hold onto some level of common sense. For instance, no one thinks they're a fish and can breathe underwater. No one thinks they are fire proof.

Survival instinct is coded into us at such a basic level, I really doubt much of anything can override it, other than a strong will to die. No one is going to commit an act that they would know, even in an altered state, would probably result in their death. Our brains simply won't allow it. This isn't some code written into humans or higher mammals, this shit goes back all the way to the earliest animals and forms of life. It's right up there with mating/reproducing. Which by the way does not apply to every living being on the planet, there are deviations with such a high number, but generally speaking as a rule, we are all driven to reproduce at some level. Just because you wear a condom when you fuck doesn't mean the sex isn't driven by the desire to reproduce. We've just developed to the point that we can satisfy that desire WITHOUT actually reproducing.


Edited by Shroomslip (08/10/15 03:22 AM)


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Offlinelood_dood
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22070407 - 08/10/15 03:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hey man, if LSD can turn me into an all powerful wizard, why wouldn't I be able to fly? YOU AIN'T THE BOSS O ME HOSS!

Joking aside, I'd have to imagine it's a built in by a strong desire to die prior to the trip (or misadventures) like shroomslip and my3rdeye said. I've never had a bad lsd trip, but my bad mushroom trips had me fearing death, even though I'm an ex-suicidal person. Actually, mushrooms got me over my suicidal tendencies! Seriously just made my life better.

Likewise, I've always taken shrooms/lsd with the intent of fun or adventure. I've never taken them thinking "I'm gonna see some beautiful shit before I come crashing off the roof!"

Now that I think about it, it's most likely anti-drug propaganda.


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:brainondrugs: :dna: :tinfoil: BILL NYE IS A LIZARD. THEY'RE ALL LIZARDS! :tinfoil: :dna: :brainondrugs:


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: Shroomslip] * 4
    #22070419 - 08/10/15 03:40 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Because reality is the biggest joke of all and you fell for it

:god:


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It's all for the :lol:s


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OfflineLoveNaborFuckHater
That one guy


Registered: 02/13/15
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: my3rdeye]
    #22070425 - 08/10/15 03:42 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That's kinda what I was getting at with the flying shit. If somebody really forced themselves to think "can I actually fly or am I just tripping" then it could just be avoided.

If only it weren't propaganda that took the face of the whole drug just because of some BS news story and/or some mentally ill individual.

I just did some searching and couldn't come up with one sound record of someone jumping to their death thinking they could fly on LSD. Found one about a kid who took a RC that got pretty big on the news. Several about people who went psychotic and jumped (days later) but not one where someone has thought they could fly.

I guess I just buried that myth for myself.

But even at the top of that ferris wheel I was having a really bad trip just for that time. But all I wanted to do was hang on for dear life I've never been so afraid. I guess it's subject to if their bad trip is fearing death or fearing life. I'd say a rule of thumb to follow is if you're gonna trip at a fair only get on a ride that you could not get out of if your life depends on it. Because if you're freaking out (especially these people who are mentally unstable) you may think your life depends on it.


--------------------
"They told me drugs were bad, oh man, oh man, they had me fooled"


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OfflineShroomslip
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: lood_dood]
    #22070432 - 08/10/15 03:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Mine too (shroom trips). I've had to get a friend to come pick me up from my own house before just to get through it. Felt like I was going insane, like at any minute I might do something entirely stupid such as jab a pencil into my neck (that wasn't an actual thought, the only actual thought is I was going crazy and couldn't control myself, pencil is just an example of something I felt I might do). That's not to say that psychs make you suicidal, quite the contrary, my will to survive overwrote everything and sought a way to NOT do it.

If the friend hadn't came and picked me up, I'm sure I would have found some other way to cope, he was just the most convenient. I needed to get out of the house (set and setting and in that trip the setting just wasn't fucking doing me any good) but was also acutely aware of the fact that I needed a chaperone for leaving it.

Survival instinct is ridiculously strong. It's my firm belief it takes a mountain of force to push it aside. Otherwise suicide would be a hell of a lot more common than it is now. No amount of mind altering through typical recreational drugs is going to change that. If it's something you've been dealing with for awhile, then yeah, you should probably stay away from psychs and benzos and probably even alcohol. Any of them could easily push you over the edge. But it's not the drug that is responsible for killing yourself, you are.

If you're at the point where any drug could make you kill yourself, you were teetering on the edge before even taking the drug. All you did was remove the final inhibitions to allow it to take place.


--------------------
With my face against the floor I can’t see who knocked me out of the way.
I don’t want to get back up but I have to so it might as well be today.
Nothing appeals to me no one feels like me, I’m too busy being calm to disappear.
I’m in no shape to be alone contrary to the shit that you might hear.


You can't wake up, this is not a dream. You're part of a machine, you are not a human being
With your face all made up, living on a screen. Low on self esteem, so you run on gasoline


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OfflineEggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: LoveNaborFuckHater]
    #22070447 - 08/10/15 04:01 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LoveNaborFuckHater said:
That's kinda what I was getting at with the flying shit. If somebody really forced themselves to think "can I actually fly or am I just tripping" then it could just be avoided.

If only it weren't propaganda that took the face of the whole drug just because of some BS news story and/or some mentally ill individual.

I just did some searching and couldn't come up with one sound record of someone jumping to their death thinking they could fly on LSD. Found one about a kid who took a RC that got pretty big on the news. Several about people who went psychotic and jumped (days later) but not one where someone has thought they could fly.

I guess I just buried that myth for myself.

But even at the top of that ferris wheel I was having a really bad trip just for that time. But all I wanted to do was hang on for dear life I've never been so afraid. I guess it's subject to if their bad trip is fearing death or fearing life. I'd say a rule of thumb to follow is if you're gonna trip at a fair only get on a ride that you could not get out of if your life depends on it. Because if you're freaking out (especially these people who are mentally unstable) you may think your life depends on it.




I think it's a myth too but I no longer fear death like I use to because of my psychedelic experiences.
I don't even think of killing myself after DMT/mushrooms. I also no longer "fear" dying
I use to give the idea a lot of thought though. I haven't seriously considered suicide since doing DMT. 
I would recommend DMT, mushrooms, mescaline, LSD in that ordered. LSD never changed my mind the way DMT does. If you're looking for answers DMT has them where LSD ehhh kinda sometimes.

Basically psychedelics are magic use wisely


Edited by Eggtimer (08/10/15 04:02 AM)


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OfflineLoveNaborFuckHater
That one guy


Registered: 02/13/15
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: Eggtimer]
    #22070458 - 08/10/15 04:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Love the picture man! But it's not so much a fear of death I had it was more of a fear of falling. Which is something I have while sober so this should be no excuse for someone tripping to use "I didn't have any fear of it becuase I was tripping".

I tried mushrooms then LSD which I think was an appropriate course but that's me. But I'm interested in mescaline and DMT, especially an ayahuasca experience, not so much smoking xtal. I've been looking for a more meaningful trip. Yes I can get deep into life with a friend while locked in a room on mushrooms but I don't get any life realizations that everyone on these boards talks about. I'd like to get spiritual but I don't know how to get there.


--------------------
"They told me drugs were bad, oh man, oh man, they had me fooled"


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Offlinelood_dood
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22070466 - 08/10/15 04:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Mine was a little different. I had only tripped one other time before, a low dose, and for the first time in years I felt super great and at peace with a lot of my anxiety. The second time I tripped I just ate a half oz. With no knowledge of how to dose. Trip started great, then a relative came home near the end and I got paranoid and went to my room. I lost all sense of physical form and being, gender, shape, age, etc. and I had this urge to "restore order" like, if I didn't arrange stuff in my room in a way that made sense, all would be chaos and I'd lose myself and die. It was terrifying! It was the first time I'd ever just not wanted to die. Some cthulhu level madness.

At the end of it though, I just felt very appreciative of my life, and extraordinarily compassionate for other people. Since then I haven't felt serious levels of suicidal at all.


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:brainondrugs: :dna: :tinfoil: BILL NYE IS A LIZARD. THEY'RE ALL LIZARDS! :tinfoil: :dna: :brainondrugs:


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: LoveNaborFuckHater]
    #22070467 - 08/10/15 04:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LoveNaborFuckHater said:
Love the picture man! But it's not so much a fear of death I had it was more of a fear of falling. Which is something I have while sober so this should be no excuse for someone tripping to use "I didn't have any fear of it becuase I was tripping".

I tried mushrooms then LSD which I think was an appropriate course but that's me. But I'm interested in mescaline and DMT, especially an ayahuasca experience, not so much smoking xtal. I've been looking for a more meaningful trip. Yes I can get deep into life with a friend while locked in a room on mushrooms but I don't get any life realizations that everyone on these boards talks about. I'd like to get spiritual but I don't know how to get there.




Consider the fact you're already there? Have you smoked 100mg of freebase DMT?
Smoking DMT is beyond normal human understanding of "spiritual."
It's far outside of mine anyways but something is there.
Alan Watts ~ The Illusion Of Expectations


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Invisible404
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: LoveNaborFuckHater]
    #22070475 - 08/10/15 04:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

why would someone in their right mind jump while tripping? well you see, tripping implies you may not be in the "right mind"

depending on the person, psychedelics can blur the line between fantasy and reality


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OfflineLoveNaborFuckHater
That one guy


Registered: 02/13/15
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: lood_dood]
    #22070493 - 08/10/15 04:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

lood_dood said:
like, if I didn't arrange stuff in my room in a way that made sense, all would be chaos and I'd lose myself and die.



I believe the psychedelics gave you an insight to what it's like to being scizophrenic


--------------------
"They told me drugs were bad, oh man, oh man, they had me fooled"


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Invisible404
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: LoveNaborFuckHater]
    #22070510 - 08/10/15 05:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

This is incorrect. The paychotomimemetic thing doesn't really hold any water. Lsd and other psychedelics produce hallucinations, not necesarily delusions... Though there are drug induced delusions, sure. But it's not schizophrenia


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InvisibleBigfeely123
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: 404]
    #22070545 - 08/10/15 05:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I think these stories were more prevalent during the 1960's & 70's. I've read the story about Diane Linkletter jumping out of a window but supposedly there were no drugs in her system during the autopsy. So what exactly happened that night & what caused it... who knows for sure? But keep in mind, hits of acid were being dosed nearly 5-10 stronger back in those days when these stories were more widespread. So a first-time or average tripper decades ago was tripping A LOT harder than most people nowadays. Think about it, if you were an unexperienced tripper & your blotter was dosed at around 500ug you'd probably be jumping out of windows too! Haha just kidding... but seriously, you'd probably be doing some really whacky shit.


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OfflineLoveNaborFuckHater
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: 404]
    #22070548 - 08/10/15 05:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hm well I've always heard that psychedelics esp. LSD are a time where we see insanity like someone mentally ill or schizophrenic. I couldn't find what I heard it from but could you link an argument that shows its not valid?


--------------------
"They told me drugs were bad, oh man, oh man, they had me fooled"


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: LoveNaborFuckHater]
    #22070568 - 08/10/15 05:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LoveNaborFuckHater said:
Hm well I've always heard that psychedelics esp. LSD are a time where we see insanity like someone mentally ill or schizophrenic. I couldn't find what I heard it from but could you link an argument that shows its not valid?




This is from years of propaganda being shoved down your throat as reality.

Edit: Behaviors Are Not Diseases
Quote:

No one is saying that people don’t get depressed, sad, troubled, anxious, nervous or even act psychotic. The question then is simple—is this due to some mental “disease” that can be verified as one would verify cancer or a real medical condition? The answer is no. For example, can soldiers returning from war experience extreme and often debilitating stress?  Yes.  It is something wrong with their brain? No. It’s the horrors of war. Can children become distracted and not pay attention? Since time immemorial, yes. But psychiatry has pathologized childhood behaviors into a “mental illness.” The same is true of mothers. Can a new mother become distraught after a joyous occasion such as the birth of a child? Yes. Is it a brain abnormality or mental disease? No. And is the most humane solution to put these people on drugs documented by international regulatory agencies to cause mania, psychosis, worsening depression, heart attack, stroke, sudden death? Or for new or nursing mothers to risk birth defects or damage to their infants from being prescribed such powerful drugs?

psychiatry-abolished_295x193This is also true of people diagnosed “schizophrenic.” There is no medical test to verify someone has a brain abnormality or medical condition of schizophrenia. And while no one claims  people can’t become psychotic, the fact remains there is no biological evidence to support schizophrenia as a brain disease or chemical abnormality. And consider this, if people do become psychotic, or irrational, is it in fact caused by some underlying medical (not psychiatric) problem? A 15-year multiple follow up study found that there was a 40% recovery rate for those diagnosed schizophrenic who did not take antipsychotics, versus a 5% rate for those who did?  What happened to their supposed “brain disease?” Did it simply vanish?  Moreover, if they could recover from such a mental state, do they deserve the “stigma” of “schizophrenia” still being part of their permanent medical record? For life? Think about it. Imagine you were extremely overweight—obese. You lose all the weight so you are no longer obese.  Yet your medical records continue to say that you are.

MosherLorenLoren Mosher, a psychiatrist and the former Chief of Schizophrenia Research for the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH) openly stated that there is no biological condition of schizophrenia as a disease or brain malfunction. His 2-year-outcome studies proved that those diagnosed schizophrenic could recover without the use of drugs.




Edited by Eggtimer (08/10/15 06:05 AM)


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InvisibleBigfeely123
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: Shroomslip]
    #22070583 - 08/10/15 06:05 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

"If you're at the point where any drug could make you kill yourself, you were teetering on the edge before even taking the drug. All you did was remove the final inhibitions to allow it to take place."

I don't want this to start a pissing match but I'm not sure if I agree with this. When you're under the influence of drugs, especially a highly potent hallucinogen like LSD you're not thinking & acting clearly. People were dosing blotters incredibly high decades ago. Your average street blotter could have been anywhere between 200-500 ug plus. If someone has the right... or should I say the wrong, amount of LSD, mushrooms or any psychedelic drug they can go into "fight or flight" mode & it is very possible that someone could accidentally kill themselves trying to "fight" or get away from the trip, or what they would perceive as themselves literally dying. Which would be the opposite, because they are actually trying to save their life not kill themselves. Trust me, the feeling of actually dying is very, VERY real. As in you thinking you're living out your last few minutes/moments on this earth. I'm not talking about ego loss.


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OfflineTurtletotem
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: Bigfeely123]
    #22070589 - 08/10/15 06:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know, I've taken some really high doses of mushrooms before, and never did I believe I could fly, or leave the bed even, come to think of it.

The only person in my country who ever jumped on mushrooms was a French woman... who had multiple suicide attempts under her belt before coming here.
I tend to draw my own conclusions.


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: Why do they jump? [Re: Bigfeely123]
    #22070596 - 08/10/15 06:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bigfeely123 said:
"If you're at the point where any drug could make you kill yourself, you were teetering on the edge before even taking the drug. All you did was remove the final inhibitions to allow it to take place."

I don't want this to start a pissing match but I'm not sure if I agree with this. When you're under the influence of drugs, especially a highly potent hallucinogen like LSD you're not thinking & acting clearly. People were dosing blotters incredibly high decades ago. Your average street blotter could have been anywhere between 200-500 ug plus. If someone has the right... or should I say the wrong, amount of LSD, mushrooms or any psychedelic drug they can go into "fight or flight" mode & it is very possible that someone could accidentally kill themselves trying to "fight" or get away from the trip, or what they would perceive as themselves literally dying. Which would be the opposite, because they are actually trying to save their life not kill themselves. Trust me, the feeling of actually dying is very, VERY real. As in you thinking you're living out your last few minutes/moments on this earth. I'm not talking about ego loss.




I totally agree someone could die from the mental state produced while under the influence. If you smoke DMT while standing on the edge of a mountain it's kinda your fault though.
But I say if you take the right precautions(/dose/set/setting) it will have positive effects in your normal mental life.
I think generally they're thought of as having a negative impact overall but I think if used "wisely" there are far more benefits.


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