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Offlinelinesofthought
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Registered: 08/10/15
Posts: 3
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Basic Tryptamines in substrate
    #22070273 - 08/10/15 01:42 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, so I've been looking all over for this. I read Shulgin's notes, as much as I could find on here and...no articles (sorry!).

Anyway it probably wouldn't b mentioned there anyway. What I am looking for is if you could add 50% MIPT and 50% DET to the substrate and get a 50:50 mix of MIPT/DET? What I'm thinking is that one will take over the other and become the predominant compound. What if you were top go three ways (33% each). It would be more difficult to accept a predominant compound to use in the final output so would you get a mix of tryptamines?

Also, as is known; adding Tryptamine itself could increase potency by up to 300% but would the same thing happen with alternate tryptamine mushrooms or would the methylation stage of the groth of DMT just convert it to psiloin instead of potentiating the chosen compound?

Also adding monomethyltryptamines such as NBT; would the methylate to DMT or would they remain as they are, plus how much of a difference would a hydroxy make on an MMT?

Finally; adding 5-MeO-Tryptamine (Mexamine); would this ruin the compound or increase it (as it does hit /every/ 5-HT receptor). In the past 4,5-x-x-xxT's haven't worked as well but there may be an exception for this.

So:
#1: Can I add two or more compounds to the substrate?
#2: Would Tryptamine revert to DMT or enhance the xxT added to the substrate?
#3: Can I add MMT's?
#4: Would the mushrooms benefit from the addition of Mexamine?

Thanks in advance!
LoT


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Offlinelinesofthought
Stranger
Registered: 08/10/15
Posts: 3
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Basic Tryptamines in substrate [Re: linesofthought]
    #22070277 - 08/10/15 01:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

And please, I've used the search engine too much, so no directing me to useless posts (as I've seen all through my research on here). UseFUL posts, however, would be greatly appreciated!


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OfflineEverything
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Re: Basic Tryptamines in substrate [Re: linesofthought]
    #22074641 - 08/11/15 01:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Keep us updated!


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InvisibleSteveRogers
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Re: Basic Tryptamines in substrate [Re: linesofthought] * 2
    #22074983 - 08/11/15 06:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

linesofthought said:
And please, I've used the search engine too much



My god.

There have been endless endless endless threads on this. Use the search and looking outside the site. This comes up at LEAST once every six months.
Info this heavy won't be spoon fed. Sorry


--------------------
"General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"


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InvisibleToadstool5
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Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
Re: Basic Tryptamines in substrate [Re: SteveRogers]
    #22075540 - 08/11/15 09:24 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Can I add two or more compounds to the substrate?




Yeh but they are absorbed at different rates so dont expect a 100% conversion rate or the same ratio.

Quote:

Would Tryptamine revert to DMT or enhance the xxT added to the substrate?




It wouldnt revert to DMT. It will compete with the other substituted tryptamines for the enzymes responsible for the biosynthesis of psilocybin.

Quote:

Can I add MMT's?




Its suggested, N-methyltryptamine is the most readily absorbed precursor.

Quote:

Would the mushrooms benefit from the addition of Mexamine?




No, normally adding tryptamines in excess will cause aborts and mutants. It is possible to get 4-HO,5-MeO-DMT from the addition of 5-MeO-tryptamine but 5-MeO-methyltryptamine would absorb into the media better.

It has been covered a lot and the mechanisms are not completely understood. So have fun experimenting :thumbup:

Quote:

Biosynthesis of Psilocybin Part II.*Incorporation of labelled tryptamine derivatives.

Stig Agurell and J. Lars G. Nilsson

Departments of pharmacognosy and chemistry, royal pharmaceutical institute, kungstensgatan 49, stockholm VA, Sweden.




Couple this paper with shulgins observations and you will understand as well as any of us what is going on. :lol:


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups


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Offlinelinesofthought
Stranger
Registered: 08/10/15
Posts: 3
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Basic Tryptamines in substrate [Re: Toadstool5]
    #22079889 - 08/12/15 04:14 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hi, thanks for answering me nicely, I honestly couldn't find what I was looking for exactly before.

I read the paper but it dealt with mostly tryptophan compounds and n-methylated tryptamines. Not that it wasn't useful but I still have questions which the paper and Shulgin's notes didn't make clear.

For instance (and I know this is everywhere here), but adding 5-MeO-DMT would create 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT yes? but what if it were 5-MeO-aMT introduced, would the substrate convert it into 4-HO-5-MeO-aMT?

Also from the paper, I gathered that adding NMT to the substrate would create NMT in addition to psilocin, right? Another thing I noticed was that even with the addition of different tryptamines, there were still small amounts of Psilocin left in. What the paper did not mention, was if it were given DET, would there still be remnants of psilocin?

Plus if for instance the substrate was given 5-HO-DMT and DET what would the end result be? A mushroom containing 5-MeO-4-HO-DET, 5-MeO-4-HO-DMT, 5-HO-DMT and 4-HO-DET or just a single one of those compounds?

Finally does the strain matter? I'd say to go for regular mexicans to stay safe but could this work with a heavy baeocystin mushroom? And if it did, I'm thinking you could convert that to a 4-PO-NET compound instead, yes? Plus how much (in grams for an average sized commercial grow box just for a control) of the certain compound would you need for the conversion to occur (in it's fullest)? Could you add differing amounts of tryptamines to almost custom build the mushroom with say 25% 4-HO-DET, 50% 4-HO-MiPT and 25% 5-MeO-DiPT (or something along those lines).

As you can see these are too many detailed questions and each would require too much searching and even if I find something close (as I have before), it didn't give me the exact answer I wanted, so the only option was to make a thread.

Sorry about that but thanks in advance!


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InvisibleToadstool5
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Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 1,359
Loc: The Golden State
Re: Basic Tryptamines in substrate [Re: linesofthought]
    #22081710 - 08/12/15 02:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

For instance (and I know this is everywhere here), but adding 5-MeO-DMT would create 4-HO-5-MeO-DMT yes? but what if it were 5-MeO-aMT introduced, would the substrate convert it into 4-HO-5-MeO-aMT?




Nobody's really sure that 5-MeO-DMT is hydroxylated, shulgin believes it would be but he never could definitively state it would. If that is whats happening then as far as 5-MeO-aMT i dont think the hydroxylase would be effected but the methylases might be.

Quote:

Also from the paper, I gathered that adding NMT to the substrate would create NMT in addition to psilocin, right? Another thing I noticed was that even with the addition of different tryptamines, there were still small amounts of Psilocin left in. What the paper did not mention, was if it were given DET, would there still be remnants of psilocin?




It doesnt create more NMT it simply only absorbs so much from the substrate to produce psilocybin and the rest remains unreacted. If given DET it should still have psilocybin/psilocin because the DET can only compete so much for control of the enzymes.

Quote:

Plus if for instance the substrate was given 5-HO-DMT and DET what would the end result be?




Nobody knows for sure but i would definitely think it wouldnt be a single compound. At minimum it would have some unreacted 5-HO-DMT and DET and psilocybin/cin.

Quote:

Finally does the strain matter? I'd say to go for regular mexicans to stay safe but could this work with a heavy baeocystin mushroom? And if it did, I'm thinking you could convert that to a 4-PO-NET compound instead, yes? Plus how much (in grams for an average sized commercial grow box just for a control) of the certain compound would you need for the conversion to occur (in it's fullest)? Could you add differing amounts of tryptamines to almost custom build the mushroom with say 25% 4-HO-DET, 50% 4-HO-MiPT and 25% 5-MeO-DiPT (or something along those lines).




Strain wont make a significant difference but species will. Theres not much info on baeocystin production let alone pharmacological effects so i honestly dont know. It could be the same pathway with a shift in equilibrium favoring one enzyme more than another such as the methylase.

Each compound is absorbed at different rates and nobody has done radioactive tracing with the substituted trypts you are talking about. They are novel drugs, dont expect so much primary research to exist :shrug:

Its mostly speculation on what research does exist, and its not much aside from the scandanavians and shulgin :confused:

No matter what you try, PLEASE use controls and document everything (at least after you patent/make money) :thumbup:


--------------------
If you do not know where the mushroom products you are consuming are grown, think twice before eating them. :badshroom:
- Paul Stamets

AMU Teks :mushroom2: Stro's Write Ups


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