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 Swami
Eggshell Walker
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 Double Arrow of Time 
#2205904 - 12/28/03 03:38 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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According to classical physics, there is nothing that says time cannot go backwards. For example, if I roll a steel ball into another one, we could film it and play it backwards and you would probably be unable to tell the difference as Newtons laws apply either way.
But what of a more complicated interaction? While still not violating the laws of physics, I cannot conceive of how a shattered egg could ever reassemble itself.
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The proof is in the pudding.
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 Learyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
 
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 Re: Double Arrow of Time [Re: Swami]
#2205915 - 12/28/03 03:43 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've seen a show about this.
All you need to do is fly around the perimeter of the earth until you cause it to spin backwards, which will cause time to reverse. It's simple physics.
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Mp3 of the month: Sons Of Adam - Feathered Fish
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SpecialEd
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Re: Double Arrow of Time [Re: Swami]
#2206050 - 12/28/03 04:58 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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But what of a more complicated interaction? While still not, violating the laws of physics I cannot conceive of how a shattered egg could ever reassemble itself.
Uhhh,
1. The laws of physics describe natural phenomena, they do not govern them.
2. Your example does not illustrate any principle of time. It just illustrates why you need a reference point to describe motion (motion can be described by kinematics without referencing time).
If I throw a ball 10 mph on a train traveling 100 mph, the ball appears to travel 10 mph to me. To a person on the ground, it would appear to travel 110 mph. To a person in space, the train may appear stationary and the earth is moving 100 mph.
Edited by SpecialEd (12/28/03 05:00 PM)
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kaiowas
lest we baguette
Registered: 07/14/03
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Re: Double Arrow of Time [Re: Swami]
#2206109 - 12/28/03 05:32 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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ok, let me ask you something ok say a mass goes back in time it wouldn't work if time is linear (as physcis says it is, since that's how we measure it). why doesn't it work?? because if time is linear, 3 seconds ago is no longer here. if I were to go back when I first started this thread, that part of time would have to still be there. if this is true then there is infinite of me, which makes no sense at all.
see display...
-----------A--------B--------
so you're at B which is the present and you want to go back to event A which is the past. in order to GO BACK to something ew\vent A would still have to exist into to go THERE, wouldn't it?
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Annnnnnd I had a light saber and my friend was there and I said "you look like an indian" and he said "you look like satan" and he found a stick and a rock and he named the rock ooga booga and he named the stick Stick and we both thought that was pretty funny. We got eaten alive by mosquitos but didn't notice til the next day. I stepped on some glass while wading in the swamp and cut my foot open, didn't bother me til the next day either....yeah it was a good time, ended the night by buying some liquor for minors and drinking nips and going to he diner and eating chicken fingers, and then I went home and went to bed.
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TrueBrode
Stranger
Registered: 11/03/03
Posts: 287
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Re: Double Arrow of Time [Re: kaiowas]
#2206152 - 12/28/03 05:46 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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kind of off topic, but maybe physics has an explanation for this.
Why does anything from the previous moment exist? If you typed this thread, but that moment does not exist anymore, then why is your thread still here? Could it be possible that time is like an infinite ladder that supports each next moment, which would imply that everything that happened, is still existing and still happening? Somehow your initial typing of the thread must still exist, because we would not be able to see it right now if it ceased to exist. In fact, everything would cease if the the first 16th of a second of time ceased. So is this any kind of an argument that time exists all at once?
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SpecialEd
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Re: Double Arrow of Time [Re: TrueBrode]
#2206167 - 12/28/03 05:55 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
If you typed this thread, but that moment does not exist anymore, then why is your thread still here?
fallacy of very weak analogy. His thread is still here because of computer memory.
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"Plus one upvote +1..."
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
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Posts: 15,413
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Re: Double Arrow of Time [Re: SpecialEd]
#2206174 - 12/28/03 06:00 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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His thread is still here because of computer memory.
Dang! You ruined the whole deep stoner rap going on. *bzzzz* -5 points!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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SpecialEd
+ one
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Re: Double Arrow of Time [Re: Swami]
#2206196 - 12/28/03 06:09 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
His thread is still here because of computer memory.
Dang! You ruined the whole deep stoner rap going on. *bzzzz* -5 points!
whooaaaa, you can take points away? 
if you take my points away...where do THEY go. Think about that.
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"Plus one upvote +1..."
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/l_l\/
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Swami
Eggshell Walker
Registered: 01/18/00
Posts: 15,413
Loc: In the hen house
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Re: Double Arrow of Time [Re: SpecialEd]
#2206198 - 12/28/03 06:10 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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if you take my points away...where do THEY go. Think about that.
See, now you are in the spirit.  +10 points!
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The proof is in the pudding.
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
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Re: Double Arrow of Time [Re: Swami]
#2206567 - 12/28/03 11:21 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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I think the only way to change the past is to get to the past before its the past....
We are time travellers - we are travelling through time right now - and right now too... yup, even still!! One can use one's perceptions to see the future, and therefore attempt to use the NOW to mold the future past into good stuff.
But yes, Swami - we can't reach back, I wouldn't think, because that would cause some unstable phenomenon in the present if changes were being made in the seemingly-concrete past.
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--
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 Re: Double Arrow of Time [Re: Strumpling]
#2207219 - 12/29/03 07:10 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, sometimes I think that the past can be changed. For one thing, those who are strongest rewrite the past history to reflect their POV. That might not change the past per se, but in changing the perception of the past the events recorded change how the future perceives them and therefore the newly remade record of the past changes the future.
But that's not physics but psychology.
But I have done this weird experiment over the course of my life. I have read Revelations a hundred times. Each time I go back I see less than before, and I'm thinking that I missed something. I think that the book is unwriting itself. It really seems like there is less there now than before. But I retain scepticism.
I also was thinking persuant to the thread on this that I started before, that maybe there are some aspects of existance which are like the dynamic content of the webpage, besides something computer related. The idea being that change them in the futre and the whole continuity of that thing even in the past also changes. Dynamic Life Content, if you will.
But how about computers? Maybe in the not so distant future there may become whole huge systems which work dynamically controlling functions which affect the computer in the past. Maybe thatconcept doesn't work. But maybe there are workarounds which can make it work. For instance say a dam floods due to unforeseen weather, and the dam is based on some computer driven restructuring process. A dynamic command from the future can make the dam restructure itself and prevent in the past the flooding.
Okay, even if that doesn't work then what about the idea that human consciousness is the Unified Feield which exists in timeless space beyond the Planck scale of finest time and space. If humans delve into their own natur3e they might find that time does not exist and they can change functions of history merely fromn within themselves.
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...or something
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Strumpling
Neuronaut
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Re: Double Arrow of Time [Re: eve69]
#2208099 - 12/29/03 03:55 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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See I think we won't be able to reach back, but its like I said we're getting better and better at seeing the future.
Computers will definitely change this drastically, like with your Dam example, here's how I think it would work: We map out the dam and weather patterns and water flow patterns and all of this shit in the computers, and the computers tell us "holy shit people, this Dam's gunna break in like 10 years you'd better be careful." The computer has told us that a "bad 'past'" is incoming - so we change the dam accordingly, the computers then recalculate and say "hey looks like everything's gunna hold up for at least 50 years."
We have effectively changed the past, only it hadn't happened yet.
We already do this every day - like if I saw my friend walking towards a small bong on the floor and it looked like he didn't notice it, I would travel through time in my mind, see a foot hitting the bong, and see the bong falling over and spilling all over the place... Then I would use this vision of the future (/future past) to reach down and grab up the bong really quick or maybe tell me friend "hey watch out dude the bong!"
I have effectively time-travelled and used the data from the future to change "the now," which quickly turns into a solid past, different from what was coming a coulpe minutes ago.
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Insert an "I think" mentally in front of eveything I say that seems sketchy, because I certainly don't KNOW much. Also; feel free to yell at me.
In addition: SHPONGLE
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Deiymiyan
I AM
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Re: Double Arrow of Time [Re: Swami]
#2208252 - 12/29/03 05:13 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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According to classical physics, there is nothing that says time cannot go backwards. For example, if I roll a steel ball into another one, we could film it and play it backwards and you would probably be unable to tell the difference as Newtons laws apply either way.
Let us say that your 'memory bank' was that film...
If you see the egg break, in all its deteil, you can go back and reassemble it using your mind.
The laws of physics are included in your mind; however, you can 'bend' the rules using your mind.
I can, for example, make the egg change colour if I wanted to, in my mind.
Would you consider the mind as being the next 'increment' of complexity in this whole physics equation?
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Dei Gratia de integro,
Veni Vidi Vici:
In Nomine Domini..
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