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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: Kurt]
#22070524 - 08/10/15 05:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Consciousness does not have a biological origin. It has never, and will never be proven that biology can give rise to consciousness.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: viktor]
#22070571 - 08/10/15 06:00 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quite the claim you have there but 'we don't know' doesn't equate to we know it doesn't.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: sudly]
#22070590 - 08/10/15 06:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Explain to me how biology can possibly give rise to consciousness. You can't, it's impossible. The best you can do is to conflate consciousness with some working of the mind, and declare that this working of the mind has a biological origin.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: viktor]
#22070733 - 08/10/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said: Explain to me how biology can possibly give rise to consciousness. You can't, it's impossible. The best you can do is to conflate consciousness with some working of the mind, and declare that this working of the mind has a biological origin.
That is a pretty strong statement anyway. "Proving" things or explaining "how" rather than "what" isn't really what science does. The correlation you mention is strong evidence to support the biological nature and origin of consciousness.
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: DieCommie]
#22070815 - 08/10/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: The correlation you mention is strong evidence to support the biological nature and origin of consciousness.
I don't see how.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: viktor]
#22071500 - 08/10/15 12:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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"How" is irreverent. The correlation is there and it is very strong. That is as good as it gets.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: viktor]
#22071549 - 08/10/15 12:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
DieCommie said: The correlation you mention is strong evidence to support the biological nature and origin of consciousness.
I don't see how.
Please show an example of consciousness without a biological vessel, then you may have a point. Until then - no!
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cubedryeguy
Stranger


Registered: 07/24/15
Posts: 537
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: sudly] 1
#22072475 - 08/10/15 04:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: I've been developing a hypothesis of my own but i'd like to hear your thoughts. preferably not god did it.
Let's hear your hypothesis.
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: cubedryeguy]
#22072929 - 08/10/15 06:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sorry but I'm not compelled to share it right now. Just trying to hear what other ideas might be out there.
One idea I've heard has to do with humans living near the coast with increased fish in their diets that increased omega three levels and in turn improved cognitive abilities.
I don't see merit to the idea but it's interesting nonetheless.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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cubedryeguy
Stranger


Registered: 07/24/15
Posts: 537
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: sudly]
#22073217 - 08/10/15 07:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can see the possibility that consciousness arose from chance and conditions being just right but place it lower on the list of possibilities. To think that intelligence arose from randomness seems less likely to me. The catalyst for consciousness came from some of the same sources that make up our universe. Of course this can go into a lot of speculation with little scientific evidence so no point expanding as anybody can insert any theory no matter how far out. Aka existence and consciousness are more trippy than psychedelics.
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cubedryeguy
Stranger


Registered: 07/24/15
Posts: 537
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: sudly]
#22073262 - 08/10/15 07:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Sorry but I'm not compelled to share it right now. Just trying to hear what other ideas might be out there.
One idea I've heard has to do with humans living near the coast with increased fish in their diets that increased omega three levels and in turn improved cognitive abilities.
I don't see merit to the idea but it's interesting nonetheless.
Interesting.......maybe the stoned ape went fishing?
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MajickMuffin
Edible Cult


Registered: 05/28/14
Posts: 4,345
Loc: North
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: cubedryeguy]
#22073278 - 08/10/15 07:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Consciousness was not created by biology in any way. Biology was created by consciousness.
Consciousness originated on a separate plane. Consciousness is within the spirit realm and the physical realm at the same time.
Bodies are vehicles which our consciousness created to be able to live a life like we do.

Edited by MajickMuffin (08/10/15 07:36 PM)
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: MajickMuffin]
#22073386 - 08/10/15 07:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
Loc: straya
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: sudly]
#22073800 - 08/10/15 09:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: sudly] 1
#22073804 - 08/10/15 09:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sudly, you patronize MajickMuffin as if you have a real clue. I've grown weary of some of the smugness in this thread. If anyone has any actual evidence, please share. I'm sure the scientific community would love to hear it. Otherwise, realize that what you think is no more than an opinion (however seemingly well educated), and treat others' views accordingly.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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circastes
Big Questions Small Head



Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 8,781
Loc: straya
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: circastes]
#22073817 - 08/10/15 09:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Seriously though, why are there spontaneous out of body experiences in the night, and why are they coupled with apparent attempts to test for fear? Literally if you acknowledge the demon or the shadowy entity as a fear test, you leave the human vehicle in another body, and enter into some kind of double of the world. It's a strange and beautiful place.
Then of course there is my more moderate evidence, that whatever state of mind you're in, that's the state the world is in. They are the same thing.
-------------------- My solitude... My shield... My armour... TESTED WITH FULL FORCE
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,806
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: DividedQuantum]
#22073918 - 08/10/15 09:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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"Bodies are vehicles which our consciousness created to be able to live a life like we do."
We know that consciousness doesn't create anything physical on it's own so there's that. Plus the quote begs the question of how animals got their bodies if they do not have a consciousness. Claiming that consciousness is what creates a body is silly in every respect.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
Edited by sudly (08/10/15 09:51 PM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: sudly] 1
#22073938 - 08/10/15 09:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: We know that consciousness doesn't create anything physical on it's own so there's that.
Oh, really? I missed that journal article. Did you write it?
Sudly, as strongly as you feel about your conjectures, they are not evidence. There is, as yet, nothing but conjecture. So yours is, as a simple matter of fact, no better or worse than MajickMuffin's.
Can you disprove that statement?
Knock it off.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: DividedQuantum] 1
#22073969 - 08/10/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm liking the no bullshit stance you're taking on this DQ. When it comes to subjective opinions on subjects such as this, there simply is no right, no wrong and no knowing.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
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Re: What is the biological origin of consciousness? [Re: sudly] 1
#22073983 - 08/10/15 10:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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My own personal pet theory is that the brain is constantly in a super position of many different states, and somehow consciousness is involved in the collapse of those states into a single state. That's just wild speculation though, and I'm almost certainly wrong.
I do believe that consciousness has a physical (as in physics) component, and that eventually science will figure out what it is.
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