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Buck513
Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: G8rbates 02]
#22061379 - 08/08/15 01:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
G8rbates 02 said: I have a PF Tek setup with an ultrasonic humidifier and a fogger hooked up to a humidistat controller which is, by all accounts, accurate to within 3/10 of a percent. The humidistat reads at 99% and only has to kick on every hour or so for about 30 seconds. I have had descent flushes with this setup and some cakes are still going and on their fourth flush (albeit only producing probably a couple grams dry at most now) and no contams (I am OCD ). The attempt has seemed pretty successful to me, although I am a noob.
My question has to do with the fact that although my humidistat reads 99% there is almost never any condensation on the walls or top of the terrarium. Is it possible to achieve 99% and have no condensation?? I had about 3" of perlite in the terrarium the first couple of flushes before I decided to take the perlite out for the sake of experimenting with only the humidifiers (which I relied on for FAE as well, when I couldn't be home). Didn't seem like any negative effects except for small flushes but I just chalked that up to the fact they were on their third flush.
Also, I had the ultrasonic on a 30 min on/off timer so it would run frequently enough to force co2 out. Since it wasn't seeming to help to actually humidify very well, I figured I could use it to at least force stale air out and the fogger would replace the humidity.
Any advice/experience/opinions would be greatly appreciated as the awesome advice I receive here always is!!
I am going with Damion5050 coir tek next to get better yields and take the next step. I have read to no end about bulk teks, substrates, casing v. not casing, additives, etc, etc, and I feel ready to do some hands on trial and error learning now!
p.s. I know there is a thread similar to this already, but it never fully addressed the "can it be 99% with no condensation" part of it.

Where's that one fucker with that spaceship fc? LOL
That's almost on his level. Kn33b or whatever his name is
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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G8rbates 02
Myco-Student



Registered: 05/23/15
Posts: 43
Loc: Southeast
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: Mad Season]
#22061387 - 08/08/15 02:01 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I read about it as a ph buffer and an easier medium to harvest off of, I guess because of how coarse it is. Supposedly you don't do as much damage to the mycelium, but upon further reading I realize it shouldn't be used in any layering format. My plan is to just use extra coir/verm sprinkled on top, not as a casing, just to cover the colonized grains. I'm guessing as a little added insurance that none of it could possibly be exposed to fruiting conditions triggering premature pinning.
-------------------- I am simply intrigued by mycology and have an appreciation for the beauty that is the mushrooms cycle of life. My inquiries, posts and pictures are not necessarily my own but rather based on others experiences as an attempt to immerse myself in as much information about this cycle as possible in the hopes that one day I will gather enough to contribute back to the community.
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G8rbates 02
Myco-Student



Registered: 05/23/15
Posts: 43
Loc: Southeast
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: G8rbates 02]
#22061397 - 08/08/15 02:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Where's that one fucker with that spaceship fc? LOL
Yeah after comparing to pics and vids (which I didn't look at many before starting, just reading on the Shroomery) it looks more and more like a far too sophisticated setup. That was also before I understood environment control like I do now, which my understanding is still getting plenty of training
-------------------- I am simply intrigued by mycology and have an appreciation for the beauty that is the mushrooms cycle of life. My inquiries, posts and pictures are not necessarily my own but rather based on others experiences as an attempt to immerse myself in as much information about this cycle as possible in the hopes that one day I will gather enough to contribute back to the community.
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Buck513
Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: G8rbates 02]
#22062212 - 08/08/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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HYGROMETERS HAVE NO PURPOSE IN THIS HOBBY
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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hago hongo
Stranger


Registered: 07/09/15
Posts: 24
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: Buck513]
#22062276 - 08/08/15 11:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I feel like the SGFC requires a little more attention than a PMP type of setup but it allows you to look at your cakes, decide exactly what they need at the moment, and give it to them. This allows you to really dial in your FC to perfectly suit your cakes and the outside environment. I think that's the real art to growing everything else is just following directions and being patient.
Edited by hago hongo (08/08/15 11:19 AM)
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SteveRogers
gandy dancer



Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 3,450
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: hago hongo]
#22062285 - 08/08/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
hago hongo said: I feel like the SGFC PMP requires a little lot more attention than a SGFC type of setup and is outdated information requiring the purchase of many specious materials
fixed.
-------------------- "General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"
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G8rbates 02
Myco-Student



Registered: 05/23/15
Posts: 43
Loc: Southeast
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: Buck513]
#22062405 - 08/08/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Buck513 said: HYGROMETERS HAVE NO PURPOSE IN THIS HOBBY
Are you talking about humidistats/humidity controllers? I hear most people have some type of hygrometer in their chamber just to keep an eye on it, although most are analogs.
-------------------- I am simply intrigued by mycology and have an appreciation for the beauty that is the mushrooms cycle of life. My inquiries, posts and pictures are not necessarily my own but rather based on others experiences as an attempt to immerse myself in as much information about this cycle as possible in the hopes that one day I will gather enough to contribute back to the community.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: G8rbates 02]
#22062417 - 08/08/15 12:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Who's these most people? Cause every TC online nowadays and anyone with more than 2000 posts doesn't have one. Including myself
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Buck513
Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: G8rbates 02]
#22062433 - 08/08/15 12:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well guess what? They're all noobs then. Seriously, hygrometers are a piece of shit device that have no purpose being used. Show me some links of people using hygrometers in their set up. Everyone uses their eyes to check humidity. It is both impossible, as well as not ideal to have your humidity anywhere near 99% consistently. You will only have that high humidity if you just misted or something. The only humidity that is important is the surface of your cakes. They should be glistening.
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: Buck513]
#22062455 - 08/08/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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surface hydration man. Keep the surface happy with misting, and in a SGFC (chamber with hundreds of holes) for maximum fae. If you keep them constantly glistening in a high fae environment, it'll evaporate (main pinning trigger) 24/7.
Quote:
Mad Season said: Humidity is important, but 100% humidity is just ridiculous. It's more like ideal is 65%+.
Quote:
Mad Season said:
well he obviously took a picture of it when he just misted. I'm saying for the whole time it was in fruiting it wasn't misted enough. If it had proper surface hydration/humidity, it'd be pinning on the surface of it. I fruited these guys in literally 1-10% humidity. They just had good surface hydration.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21856836
obviously they're cracked from being dry, but that's because they're subjected to such harsh conditions. A proper sgfc can dip down to 50% relative humidity at times based on the rooms air currents. What truly matters is a constant surface humidity/hydration (replaced with misting) with a lower humidity around it. This with a maximum fae will cause a constant evaporation. Any info from 5 years to now will completely agree with this statement. What matters most is the eyes to know when it needs to be misted or not.
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Mad Season said: You don't get it. With 95-100% humidity how will there be evaporation? Just think about it. Just saying a real sgfc is like rarely above 90%. 65-80 normally. This is why they dry out a lot and need misting a lot. This is their principle.
Just read this:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19279962#19279962 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20195542
Also in Florida it's not constantly 95%-100%. That is actually ridiculously beneficial for bacteria and as said before slows down evaporation. Also the fruits might be a bit wet, but the cakes look like they still need more. Still not even at the right darkness of proper hydration
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Pastywhyte said:
Your wrong. They don't. If they did your substrate would be over saturated. You don't want a fruiting chamber to be at 95-100, the only place you need the rh that high is in the microclimate formed at the substrate surface.
A SGFC should fluctuate between 85-55% rh. If it jumps from higher to lower than that in a short period of time you will end up with split fruits like the OP of this thread. Thats why I suggested to check his AC as that will interfer with the chambers natural operation.
Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Quote:
impatientguy said: Then explain why I've seen RR post that you can't have to high of a humidity in a FC? And how would your sub get over saturated in a 95 % humidity? its not on the perlite so that makes no sense to me. If that were the case people wouldn't need to dunk there cakes they would only need to raise the humidity to rehydrate there subs. And why does my SGFC stay at 95? My hydrometer is correct. I'd bet my car on it. And it's a properly made SGFC too just so you know. Not trying to be a dick I'm serious about the questions. I've literally never seen my FC drop below 93 (besides opening it to mist and fan.
I'm sure he had his reasons at the time he said that but first, he is still human and capable of mistakes, two he has recanted a lot of things he said over the years, and three he knows full well total saturation will prevent evaporation. Maybe you read his post out of context.
Also your sub can easily be oversaturated if the rh is so high that the moisture from the misting people like to do will not evaporate off and are drawn into the substrate. Happens lots here, it inhibits pinning.
Your hygrometer is most likely not correct, most are garbage and analog ones need to be constantly recalibrated. Thats why few real cultivators use them. If the rh has not dropped to at least 60 when you fan, its not working.
Lets be completely serious here. No monotub holds RH higher than 80. They don't need to. A fruit can grow just fine in 60 RH. Some of the best grows here on the boards were done in open air. The only place the rh needs to be at 95% is right at the substrate surface. Microclimate.
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Bill_Oreilly
ANIMALS (the RAINBOW SERPENT)


Registered: 11/12/11
Posts: 26,370
Loc: Boston
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: G8rbates 02]
#22062509 - 08/08/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
G8rbates 02 said: I have a PF Tek setup with an ultrasonic humidifier and a fogger hooked up to a humidistat controller which is, by all accounts, accurate to within 3/10 of a percent. The humidistat reads at 99% and only has to kick on every hour or so for about 30 seconds. I have had descent flushes with this setup and some cakes are still going and on their fourth flush (albeit only producing probably a couple grams dry at most now) and no contams (I am OCD ). The attempt has seemed pretty successful to me, although I am a noob.
My question has to do with the fact that although my humidistat reads 99% there is almost never any condensation on the walls or top of the terrarium. Is it possible to achieve 99% and have no condensation?? I had about 3" of perlite in the terrarium the first couple of flushes before I decided to take the perlite out for the sake of experimenting with only the humidifiers (which I relied on for FAE as well, when I couldn't be home). Didn't seem like any negative effects except for small flushes but I just chalked that up to the fact they were on their third flush.
Also, I had the ultrasonic on a 30 min on/off timer so it would run frequently enough to force co2 out. Since it wasn't seeming to help to actually humidify very well, I figured I could use it to at least force stale air out and the fogger would replace the humidity.
Any advice/experience/opinions would be greatly appreciated as the awesome advice I receive here always is!!
I am going with Damion5050 coir tek next to get better yields and take the next step. I have read to no end about bulk teks, substrates, casing v. not casing, additives, etc, etc, and I feel ready to do some hands on trial and error learning now!
p.s. I know there is a thread similar to this already, but it never fully addressed the "can it be 99% with no condensation" part of it.

AHAHAAHAHAHAHAH oh man that setup though..
-------------------- Something there is mysteriously formed, Existing before Heaven and Earth, Silent, still, standing alone, unchanging, All-pervading, unfailing, I do not know its name; I call it tao. If forced to give it a name, I call it Great (ta). Being great, it flows out; Flowing out means far-reaching; Being far-reaching, it is said to return. It's just a shot away..
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hago hongo
Stranger


Registered: 07/09/15
Posts: 24
Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: SteveRogers]
#22062623 - 08/08/15 01:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks for the correction. I just feel like with a PMP you can leave it for days at a time without having to worry about your cakes drying out. with the sgfc I feel like if you don't mist for 4 days your cakes would be all dried up. Not to say the SGFC isn't the way to go. Its cheaper and easier to build and requires alot less equipment to do basically the same job. if used correctly it can give some awesome results.
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G8rbates 02
Myco-Student



Registered: 05/23/15
Posts: 43
Loc: Southeast
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: Mad Season]
#22062636 - 08/08/15 01:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Don't really know them personally and don't care to dig for links... I wouldn't have a hygrometer if I didn't read it here. I didn't even know what a hygrometer was until I started researching on this site. I'm just stating what I've read, and there is just a little bit of information overload. I find it hard to believe that all beginners don't go through this same info saturation issue. As much as it would be badass to read for a week and be a cultivation master I didn't think I would be so fortunate, and so here we are.
Anyway, I have done a lot of reading here and I have seen a lot of people talking about hygrometers and analog vs digital, etc. Outdated info probably but for every valuable piece of info there is only about 2,000 misleading pieces of info, so I did what any noob would and tried to decipher what's good or no good. Guess I was wrong, but I'm okay with that.
Yeah the setup is overkill, I know that now, but somehow someway this setup produced a lot. Luck probably, but after adjusting timers and the fogger to get that glisten I was getting cakes covered with super happy fun times! I hope I make more noob mistakes so I can learn from them and maybe get the level of some of the self proclaimed mighty mycology geniuses that were born growing mushrooms lol
-------------------- I am simply intrigued by mycology and have an appreciation for the beauty that is the mushrooms cycle of life. My inquiries, posts and pictures are not necessarily my own but rather based on others experiences as an attempt to immerse myself in as much information about this cycle as possible in the hopes that one day I will gather enough to contribute back to the community.
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G8rbates 02
Myco-Student



Registered: 05/23/15
Posts: 43
Loc: Southeast
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: G8rbates 02]
#22062657 - 08/08/15 01:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
surface hydration man. Keep the surface happy with misting, and in a SGFC (chamber with hundreds of holes) for maximum fae. If you keep them constantly glistening in a high fae environment, it'll evaporate (main pinning trigger) 24/7.
Recently learned about the difference in surface hydration and humid air. I was under the impression that light and fae were the main pinning triggers and the cakes only pulled humidity from the air. Makes a lot of since though. It comes together more and more with a little guidance from the experienced I'll get there. Thanks!
-------------------- I am simply intrigued by mycology and have an appreciation for the beauty that is the mushrooms cycle of life. My inquiries, posts and pictures are not necessarily my own but rather based on others experiences as an attempt to immerse myself in as much information about this cycle as possible in the hopes that one day I will gather enough to contribute back to the community.
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SteveRogers
gandy dancer


Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 3,450
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: G8rbates 02]
#22062665 - 08/08/15 01:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Light is a secondary pinning trigger, if even that. This is why a 12/12 schedule is recommended from inoculation through fruiting. FAE and evaporation of moisture off the substrate FTW
-------------------- "General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"
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hago hongo
Stranger


Registered: 07/09/15
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Loc:
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: G8rbates 02]
#22062670 - 08/08/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
G8rbates 02 said: I understand. Although it may have just been blind luck I was getting 8+ grams per flush on a couple of cakes. From what I have been reading that seems pretty good, but then again I am a noob so not sure. I studied general info about cubes for weeks before attempting because I didn't want to fail on my first attempt and, like I said before, I am OCD. I felt like I had a descent grasp on it all but there is no learning like trial and error and hands on practice. I definitely understand now that I could have achieved similar results, if not better, with a much smaller investment but I guess that's the way we learn 
Dude if your getting 8+gram per cake flushes your humidity and FAE are proably just fine.
Edited by hago hongo (08/08/15 01:15 PM)
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G8rbates 02
Myco-Student



Registered: 05/23/15
Posts: 43
Loc: Southeast
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: hago hongo]
#22062692 - 08/08/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
SteveRogers said: Light is a secondary pinning trigger, if even that. This is why a 12/12 schedule is recommended from inoculation through fruiting. FAE and evaporation of moisture off the substrate FTW
Yeah, I saw where it used to be believed that there should be no light during colonization and that it's actually beneficial to colonization to have it on a 12/12.Quote:
hago hongo said:
Quote:
G8rbates 02 said: I understand. Although it may have just been blind luck I was getting 8+ grams per flush on a couple of cakes. From what I have been reading that seems pretty good, but then again I am a noob so not sure. I studied general info about cubes for weeks before attempting because I didn't want to fail on my first attempt and, like I said before, I am OCD. I felt like I had a descent grasp on it all but there is no learning like trial and error and hands on practice. I definitely understand now that I could have achieved similar results, if not better, with a much smaller investment but I guess that's the way we learn 
Dude if your getting 8+gram per cake flushes your humidity and FAE are proably just fine.
That's what I was thinking. I did take the time to try and get conditions right, using the limited knowledge I had. I guess it paid off. Hoping it wasn't just a fluke though!
-------------------- I am simply intrigued by mycology and have an appreciation for the beauty that is the mushrooms cycle of life. My inquiries, posts and pictures are not necessarily my own but rather based on others experiences as an attempt to immerse myself in as much information about this cycle as possible in the hopes that one day I will gather enough to contribute back to the community.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: G8rbates 02]
#22062701 - 08/08/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
G8rbates 02 said: I wouldn't have a hygrometer if I didn't read it here. I didn't even know what a hygrometer was until I started researching on this site. I'm just stating what I've read, and there is just a little bit of information overload. I find it hard to believe that all beginners don't go through this same info saturation issue.
yeah most people do, there's a ton of stuff and lot of old ways of thinking which we now have found better ways to do.
Here's a write up/list of The Basics and I think its a great place to start, neatly organized and lots of helpful links.
for pf-tek cakes just follow www.mushroomvideos.com and do what he does!
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: hago hongo]
#22062710 - 08/08/15 01:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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If there was such a thing as a true automated chamber, we'd all do it. You think shroomery members are hard workers? Let me rephrase that. Do you think stoners wouldn't want to do something the lazy way if they could? Didn't you read what I said? Quote:
What matters most is the eyes to know when it needs to be misted or not
why you ask?
PROBLEM #1: Automation is programmed on timers and shit. It'll just mist for x seconds regardless of what the cakes look like. You can adjust the time, but will every cake really get the same saturation from a mister on a timer? Also myc has a goldilocks zone. IT CAN'T BE MISTED TOO LITTLE OR TOO MUCH. This is a task a noob really struggles with. Even I can mess up and I've done it for 5 years. That's why they need to develop their eyes through misting. If you mist right, it isn't uncommon to see at least 7 grams per cake.
PROBLEM #2 depending on the room cakes may retain moisture for longer. I can tell you some days I only mist once, and some days I mist 3 times. Never at the exact same time. JUST WHEN THEY NEED IT. You can't predict the rooms environment. You'd need like infrared, cameras and those laser things that can test the hydration of a cake. A timer will never be able to mist WHEN IT NEEDS IT. A timer will mist when it's programmed to.
I've seen pros grow in sgfcs and they generally get a minimum of 6-7 grams per cake first flush easily. They just have developed their eyes and misting over the years to make it perfect. This is just a sample
   


Edited by Mad Season (08/08/15 01:28 PM)
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SteveRogers
gandy dancer


Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 3,450
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Re: Hygrometer reads 99% but no condensation?? w/pic [Re: Mad Season]
#22062717 - 08/08/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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THE STOLEN CAKE PICS!
Glad to see they are being put to educational use.
-------------------- "General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"
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