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Ilift
Stranger


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What makes a 'good' person?
#22056716 - 08/07/15 05:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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What do we base a person on? Their actions? Their race? Their appearance Their heart
In my lifetime I have had two profound shifts in identity and hence the kind of person I became changed. When I had my first depressive episode i began dabbling in drugs, I hung out with other kids like myself who liked to push boundaries because it was fun. We would egg cars, tag busses, petty shit like that which isn't major but still unethical and an asshole move in hindsight. After a year or so of derailing and destroying my future a significant event occurred which forced me to look at myself. We broke (the doors were wide open) into a school that had expelled me a year previous and another friend whom was with us at the time, we graffitied a bunch of lockers nothing major then went to the science room and proceeded to smoke cones on the teachers desks etc. The event was a major fuck you to the school who had caused me so much pain ( they did not perform an investigation into the claims made by an individual which were later found out to be false) and in that moment I felt I was getting revenge. When reality kicks it hits hard, as 3 girls of the school quite bigger than us might I add blocked our path to freedom. By now we were scared shitless, I barged through and made my freedom little did I know that my friend did not fare the same. Later on police arrived at my house and the reality of what I had done had finally started to kick in. I was ordered to court and got let off without any conviction as I had no previous history. I was also involved in a bunch of other scumbag type shit such as petty theft, nothing major as I have repeated but what most would consider a scumbag at that point in my life. Fastforward a few years and I have completely transformed who I was although there is elements that linger, these elements that linger I feel where the main traits I had before. Eg my compulsiveness which was allowed loose during that period even know I am still compulsive but I can control. I have sorted my shit out, on a good track and have strong ethics morals. My main question is, who am I really? am I the scumbag I was once or the person I am now, not in the literal sense being of "me". Is identity and who we are like existence, suspended in moment the person we are is only relevant in that point of time. Post was written in some mitigating circumstances. thank you
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: Ilift]
#22056729 - 08/07/15 05:29 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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there are no 'good' people
only ones who make a conscious effort towards being 'good'
and ones who dont and just 'be'
by our very nature 'we' are not 'good'
we are beastly, devious, greedy, inconsiderate , wasteful, destructive and shameless creatures just as nature intended:)
but with our consciousness we can percieve our faults if we wish and actively try to be 'good'
and remember 'good' is just a human perspective and is tied to us by moral and tacit reasons only.
as we have choosen to divide ourselves from nature and to think of ourselves as more than beasts:)
trying to be good is a personal choice and most would hope for the aforementioned reasons of morals and tacit obligations that any wise person would choose to be good as one could be.
so would a really bad person who is really trying to be good better than say an average person who is not activly seeking to adjust his ways?
for the bad man has the better intent? how do we measure goodness if not measured against intent/effort?
some people are naturally more bad than others! i.e upbringing, adhd ect
imo goodness is about how much effort you put into improving your own goodness and actively trying not to inflict badness on others.
its the journey and effort put into said journey not the arrival.
know one should ever 'arrive' as again by our very nature...
knowone is perfect.
and it is wrong of anyone to think of themselves as so imo
as you see its like a race that never ends and an unfair one at that as we all have different starting positions and different abilitys.
so in my mind there cannot be 1 set scale of goodness.
human lifes are equal in worth without material crap in the way, so when it comes down to it i think effort means more that attainment.
i have met really good people and met others that some would say belong in the gutter and not worth the time of day( homeless addict 1 example).
but i know who has the better heart and intent when i really measure things up and look past the self abuse ,smell ect
Edited by mustangbob3 (08/07/15 05:53 AM)
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: mustangbob3] 1
#22056840 - 08/07/15 06:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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My youth was much like yours OP, only a lot worse in some ways. I was highly inclined to violence, aggression, theft, etc, etc and actually did pretty much the same as what you did to your school even!
Fast forward 16 or so years from that stage of my life, and I couldn't be any more inclined to behave in completely the opposite way. I attribute much of that to first coming into contact with a Buddhist monastery about 8 years ago, and having taken up daily meditation 6.5 years ago. I think psychedelics have also played a part, although I also used them in that destructive phase, so who knows.
Whilst I agree with mustangbob, we are most definitely animals with some very undesirable traits, we also have the gift of consciousness. And through that gift I believe that we can use our insight to try and achieve wisdom.
It is my personal belief that through meditation, and thus a quieting of the distractions of thought, that one can realise that all that the awakened consciousness desires is kindness and compassion towards your fellow human. I think 'good' or 'bad' is a judgement, and an awakened consciousness has no need for judgement. Things just are as they are.
Let me know if you want me to expand on any of that. I cannot stress enough how fully I believe this though. Sure, I still have thoughts of ill will towards people at times, but they're just that - thoughts. All I really want is to exhibit as much kindness and compassion towards every other human that I can. That is what lies below thought, and I suspect, does so in each and every one if us (barring perhaps psycho/sociopaths), even if often buried very deep.
I could be wrong, but that's my feeling!
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,808
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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: Ilift]
#22056911 - 08/07/15 07:35 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Those who do no purposeful harm to others be it physical or emotional.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: Ilift]
#22058945 - 08/07/15 02:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have, frankly, no idea what makes a person "good." But I do know that Gandhi had it, and King had it, and Mother Teresa had it. There is something there that is real, and it can be called goodness.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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sudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,808
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Mother Teresa had a lot of questionable actions, especially those of the financial kind. While she did help people there are speculations that she had sadistic behaviors and used large quantities of funding for personal agendas rather than actually helping the poor.
I'm no scholar on this but I'd recommend reading into it.
-------------------- I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.
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Ilift
Stranger


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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: sudly]
#22060616 - 08/07/15 09:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
sudly said: Mother Teresa had a lot of questionable actions, especially those of the financial kind. While she did help people there are speculations that she had sadistic behaviors and used large quantities of funding for personal agendas rather than actually helping the poor.
I'm no scholar on this but I'd recommend reading into it.
The Christopher Hitchens is strong in this one.
The charisma, wit and intellect is unsurpassed by any of these religious clowns especially reza aslan.
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Jaegar
Formless One



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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: Ilift]
#22062177 - 08/08/15 10:33 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I suppose it's our values that define us. And the context related to cultural intercourse.
Being a good person will change with social influence and biological imperatives.
Edited by Jaegar (08/08/15 10:39 AM)
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yeah


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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: Ilift]
#22078859 - 08/11/15 09:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've been told i'm a good person.
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



Registered: 04/05/15
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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: Ilift]
#22079003 - 08/11/15 10:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I like Sam Harris's notion that goodness and badness are precisely good or bad to the degree that they prevent the suffering of conscious creatures, or promote the well-being of conscious creatures. If you wish well-being on all conscious creatures, then you are a good person.
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yeah


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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: secondorder]
#22079020 - 08/11/15 10:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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What if I'm too emo and unsatisfied to expend the willpower on wishing well for others
am I temporarily a scumbag? Do I still get to be a good person?
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: yeah]
#22079126 - 08/11/15 10:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you do not care for the wellbeing of other conscious creatures, then you are a psychopath, or a sociopath. This is of course different from temporarily not focusing on other's well-being. Not caring, or even being swayed by, or having any emotional reaction to the suffering or well-being of others is absence of empathy and is therefore, by definition, psychopathy.
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yeah


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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: secondorder]
#22079168 - 08/11/15 10:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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What if I've been through so much suffering myself that when I see someone else suffer all I can feel is "nothing I haven't been through already..."
just a detached witnessing... I'm in a really emo mood right now
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Edited by yeah (08/11/15 10:54 PM)
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sprinkles
otd president


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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: Ilift]
#22079208 - 08/11/15 11:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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A good person is selfless, they do for others instead of serving themselves. They are considerate, have empathy and treat people with respect, kindness and humility.
personally I really admire people who can be honest despite the consequences, and even if the truth may hurt, but the truth hurts less than lies in my mind.
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sprinkles
otd president


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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: sprinkles]
#22079273 - 08/11/15 11:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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comes down to basically this..
a good person improves others lives.
A bad person makes others existence more difficult. Life is difficult enough without assholes making it harder. If it were up to me I'd just put those people to sleep (like dogs that bite). Telling them I believe in reincarnation & come back with a better attitude next time.
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: secondorder]
#22079762 - 08/12/15 02:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
yeah said: What if I've been through so much suffering myself that when I see someone else suffer all I can feel is "nothing I haven't been through already..."
just a detached witnessing... I'm in a really emo mood right now
I'm not going to argue anything with you here, but I am curious why you feel detached and careless for the suffering of others, just because you have suffered? I've dealt with some shit in my life too, etc etc, and honestly I know how much it sucks that I wouldn't want anyone else to feel that way. If you're just feeling particularly emo right now or something, it's OK, I've had my times I just kind of say fuck it all (and "them all" I guess). I usually try to hold it in though.
Quote:
secondorder said: I like Sam Harris's notion that goodness and badness are precisely good or bad to the degree that they prevent the suffering of conscious creatures, or promote the well-being of conscious creatures. If you wish well-being on all conscious creatures, then you are a good person.
In a fairly basic way, I can dig this also liked your post JSB, even though it seems a little more "advanced" than the above and I think I'll have to continue my own meditation practice and stuff before I have a solid opinion.
**** On the edit screen this thought just jumped into my head. Over the weekend (long story...) met this tweaker dude and got some tweak from him and hung out a bit and I "fronted" him some molly and a nug lucky for him I was fairly fucked up at the time to be thinking that kind of thing through, and go figure I haven't heard back from him, and over the past few days this has just been like a really small annoying like, mosquito bite on my mind or something lol. Overall it wasn't for that much money, I can live with the loss, as that's what it'll likely come to for me. Sure isn't the first time I've been screwed over :P anyway when you guys were talking about being scumbags earlier in your lives, it just got me thinking, once you do something kind of scummy and you more or less get labeled a scumbag, whether by society or just your peers or whoever, even if deep down you might be a decent person, could that label (negative ego attachment?) influence you to still do scummy things?
I've done a lot of drugs - and misused my share of nasty ones - and even though I've never stolen from anyone for a fix or anything (for one, I've never needed to) but still, I try to have compassion for them, even though it honestly does make me feel like a bit of an idiot if they burn me. Like this dude who probably got me this weekend, I have a hard time thinking he's sitting back going "haha sucker!" and if he is it would be fun to give him a solid knock up side the head, but I have a feeling to him the thought of screwing someone over barely registered, at least hardly in comparison to some possibly more basic survival needs (like food/water/and a fix I guess). These people, I just really pity 
That's a pretty small example but hopefully it can provide some food for thought. We all need to survive. The way society is set up seems to usually allow the people at the top to get away with anything while they can on the surface look like angels, while they may not be just stealing from one person but they could be waging war in another country in the name of "WE are morally good!" When you don't have those resources, sometimes the dirty things you gotta do to stay alive can appear even worse.
Well, the people at the top of the pyramid would surely like us all to believe that, wouldn't they? 
/post ... sorry if this is hard to read or understand or anything, wasn't trying to focus in on one thing too much either, I'm a little high
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secondorder
Amanda Hug'n'kiss



Registered: 04/05/15
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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: yeah]
#22080620 - 08/12/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
What if I've been through so much suffering myself that when I see someone else suffer all I can feel is "nothing I haven't been through already..."
just a detached witnessing... I'm in a really emo mood right now
If you're in an emo mood right now, but still have the capacity to care for others, then no you're not a psychopath, you're just temporarily in an undesirable state. I'm sorry to hear that you're experiencing such a state of mind right now, and I'm sorry to hear that you've suffered. I hope you find a way through it.
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Hippocampus



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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: secondorder]
#22080880 - 08/12/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
secondorder said: I like Sam Harris's notion that goodness and badness are precisely good or bad to the degree that they prevent the suffering of conscious creatures, or promote the well-being of conscious creatures. If you wish well-being on all conscious creatures, then you are a good person.
Isn't that "life-ist"? Why should we only protect living things that have nerves? Because they are more like us? isn't that a self-centered kind of reasoning?
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nhbeleni
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Re: What makes a 'good' person? *DELETED* [Re: Hippocampus]
#22082144 - 08/12/15 04:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by nhbeleni
Reason for deletion: sads
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: What makes a 'good' person? [Re: nhbeleni]
#22082541 - 08/12/15 05:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't know if I agree that empathy is a be all and end all though. I score really low on empathy tests as I'm on the mild side of the autistic spectrum, however I don't think that has any effect on how good a person I can be...
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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