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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw
#22054090 - 08/06/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have been using the RTV silicon injection port tek--the one that includes a polyfill filter-- without contamination issues for some time but I confess that drilling two holes in lids, fooling with the silicon application, then waiting 24 hrs for the silicon to cure, gets a bit old. I have been thinking lately that a more elegant approach might be to skip the SHIP altogether and simply inject through the polyfill filter. I have been researching this system with the advanced search facility on this site. It seems that it has the backing of some long time posters and TC's. It has also been demonstrated in one of the RR videos.
The only thing I can come up with that might make this a less than attractive way to go would be the needle's having a hard time getting through a fairly dense filter plug. Some needles are pretty blunt. Also, it is constantly streesed by proponents that the needle has to go clear through the filter plug or obvious trouble ensues.
Here's a way to use the polyfill injection tek that outflanks the needle drag problem. I've tested this method with a snub nose needle with perfect success.Instead of inserting the needle through the wad of polyfill, I put the end of the needle between the jar metal and the polyfill; it completely bypassed the filter plug and could be angled away from the polyfill projection on the underside of the lid so that no injectant got absorbed by the filter.When I pulled the needlle out, I twisted the filter plug a little to reset it in the lid and the seal was as good as new.
No doubt this little dodge has been proposed before sometime on this site--but I have not come upon it in my many searches so I am bringing it to the surface once again FWIW.
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: champinhom]
#22054112 - 08/06/15 03:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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use 1/2"-1" hole for polyfil and you can inject just fine, but after you've made lids why do you need more, forever expanding your jar collection? you only have to make them one time. also you can PC the silicone as soon as it's got a firm skin after about 6 hours. it will finish curing in the PC
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: bodhisatta]
#22054272 - 08/06/15 04:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: use 1/2"-1" hole for polyfil and you can inject just fine, but after you've made lids why do you need more, forever expanding your jar collection? you only have to make them one time. also you can PC the silicone as soon as it's got a firm skin after about 6 hours. it will finish curing in the PC, fwiw
You forgot the most important part dude.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: Inocuole]
#22054406 - 08/06/15 04:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: champinhom]
#22054855 - 08/06/15 06:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
champinhom said: No doubt this little dodge has been proposed before sometime on this site--but I have not come upon it in my many searches so I am bringing it to the surface once again FWIW.
You need better searching! I sometimes use google rather than the forum search engine, for more inexact terms like this I prefer google. First phrase and first hit found this, Workman from sporeworks.
Quote:
Workman said: You sterilize with the polyfil plugged lid on. <br> <br>You can unscrew the lid and inoculate (risky). <br> <br>Or you can inject through the polyfil. You can't actually push a needle through the center of the polyfil if it is packed in the hole properly and you likely to push the whole wad into the jar if you force it. The trick is to go down the side of the drilled hole and press the needle down between the polyfil and the hole edge. <br> <br>Or you can predrill a second hole and use the traditional tape. <br> <br>Or you can predrill a second hole and put a blob of silicone over it and let it dry. After sterilization you can inject through the silicone and after you remove the needle the hole self seals. <br> <br>There are many options, be creative.
my google search BTW was
push polyfil to the side and inject
I have gone in the side on my filters sometimes, usually I just crack the lid a little. My filters are unusual, they are silicone tubes with filters on the end.
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: blackout]
#22055107 - 08/06/15 07:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You need better searching! I sometimes use google rather than the forum search engine, for more inexact terms like this I prefer google. First phrase and first hit found this, Workman from sporeworks.
Quote:
Workman said: You sterilize with the polyfil plugged lid on. <br> <br>You can unscrew the lid and inoculate (risky). <br> <br>Or you can inject through the polyfil. You can't actually push a needle through the center of the polyfil if it is packed in the hole properly and you likely to push the whole wad into the jar if you force it. The trick is to go down the side of the drilled hole and press the needle down between the polyfil and the hole edge. <br> <br>Or you can predrill a second hole and use the traditional tape. <br> <br>Or you can predrill a second hole and put a blob of silicone over it and let it dry. After sterilization you can inject through the silicone and after you remove the needle the hole self seals. <br> <br>There are many options, be creative.
push polyfil to the side and inject
I knew it! I knew I couldn't come up with anything new on this forum!
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: champinhom]
#22055123 - 08/06/15 07:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why didn't you specify by the age of the post then? If you limit to things posted in the last 3 years it's usually decent info. That's something you can't do with google.
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: bodhisatta]
#22055138 - 08/06/15 07:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: use 1/2"-1" hole for polyfil and you can inject just fine, but after you've made lids why do you need more, forever expanding your jar collection? you only have to make them one time. also you can PC the silicone as soon as it's got a firm skin after about 6 hours. it will finish curing in the PC
1/2 inch is a big hole. A whole inch? that is beyond my power of imagination.
Yes, I seem to be buying a lot of jars. I don't know where they get to. But I do use them for more than just mycological research. This particular bunch of jars is going to be sued to grow and eventually fruit reishi.
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: champinhom]
#22055145 - 08/06/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21199164#21199164
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16402348#16402348
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21058565#21058565
the site search engine is great too. with skills I learned in 4th grade I found these links!
Frank recommends 1 inch holes in his beginner monotub TEK http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19792837
Quote:
Step Two: Make your lids Using a 3/4" or 1" drill bit or hole saw, carefully drill a hole in the lid of each quart jar.
Stuff the lid with polyfill VERY TIGHTLY. You should stuff it as tight as possible, no exceptions.
To test for good polyfill density, stick your needle through it. You should feel some resistance as you press it through. More resistance is better in all cases.
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: Inocuole]
#22055358 - 08/06/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Why didn't you specify by the age of the post then? If you limit to things posted in the last 3 years it's usually decent info.
The Workman quote was 13.5 years ago, I frequently find great info in very old posts http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/511412
one of the most interesting reads I had in a while was John Tyndalls writings from 1879!
Quote:
Inocuole said: That's something you can't do with google.
Do you mean have a time range? You can, I used it all the time, it's very useful for certain things. Search something, then click search tools, second drop down menu should be "any time", click this and pick custom range and you can pick a range. I usually just click any date on the calendar for both, and then change the years.
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GreenRabbit
Plutonium Pollinator



Registered: 04/28/13
Posts: 2,667
Loc: In a forest
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: bodhisatta]
#22055360 - 08/06/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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My polyfil is definitely not so tight I can't get a syringe through it. Should it really be that tight? Why not just not have a hole and remove to lid..
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: GreenRabbit]
#22072917 - 08/10/15 06:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, I just tried the method outlined in the OP. Not so good after all. I don't like the way the needle has to skate along the top of the jar lid to feel its way to the edge of the hole. I find also that I have to pull back the polyfill with my thumb to expose the border betwwen plug and lid. Too many chances for something nasty to smear the side of the needle. And even after the needle passed into the jar, I had trouble a few times avoided getting hung up in the filter wad that extends into the jar.
So, long story short, as soon as I can, I am going to add SHIPs onto those lids the first chance I get.
-------------------- My father used to say: I don't care what else you do in life, just don't be an asshole. People, forgive me when I forget what my daddy said. Cut back the proliferating list of people whose opinions can hurt you. Unless they have done or want to do you some good, their views are just not worth tracking. Saul Bellow “People are just cannibals unless they leave each other alone.” Doris Lessing Those whom the gods would save, they dower with compassion. Mr. P. Silocybin
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tahoe
Noob Slayer



Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: champinhom]
#22074749 - 08/11/15 03:01 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is exactly how I do it. Workman and I have been doing it since the 90's. 3/8 - 1/2 holes. I use hemostats to pull a wad of polyfill through. Pc jar with rubber seal down. Use 18-23 gauge needle and push it through. I like smaller needless with spore syringes, bigger for lcs. No need for a self sealing plug.
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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GreenRabbit
Plutonium Pollinator



Registered: 04/28/13
Posts: 2,667
Loc: In a forest
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: champinhom]
#22076846 - 08/11/15 03:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
champinhom said: I don't like the way the needle has to skate along the top of the jar lid to feel its way to the edge of the hole.
I find also that I have to pull back the polyfill with my thumb to expose the border betwwen plug and lid. Too many chances for something nasty to smear the side of the needle. And even after the needle passed into the jar, I had trouble a few times avoided getting hung up in the filter wad that extends into the jar.
So, long story short, as soon as I can, I am going to add SHIPs onto those lids the first chance I get.
I don't have any of these things happen when I use a needle through the polyfill. 1/4" hole is pretty easy to hit without touching the lid. The polyfill should be clean, leave foil on until you are about to use it.
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tahoe
Noob Slayer



Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 6,274
Loc: N38.93829W119.98108
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: GreenRabbit]
#22076895 - 08/11/15 03:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have never really had a problem finding the hole. ;-) I use sharp needless. I never had to pull the poly to the side. I reuse the poly. Except if the jar contams or if I get excessive mycelium growth in the polyfill. Then I replace it. I had a bag of poly fill last ten years. Just bought my second bag lady month
-------------------- Stop experimenting half way through your first grow. Grow it to maturity, watch it, learn from it. Do this a few times then experiment with different ideas and figure out what works best for you.
My Legacy https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22140987#22140987 Teh=The I need to proofread
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: injecting through polyfill filter port--fwiw [Re: tahoe]
#22076948 - 08/11/15 03:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I uh... use SFDs and just crack the lid to inject things. 
This whole.. pushing the poly aside thing... does not sound fun to do 20 times in a row.
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