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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 3,131
Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Violet]
    #22054268 - 08/06/15 03:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21390984
It's limited mostly to invitro and grass seed specifically, but it actually has full yields with no issues.




I'm using this tek for the first time right now and getting good results with it and it's about as easy as it gets.  I've tried with and without casing and casing is producing bigger fruits for me with my strains.  I don't know why, it just is.  RGS is the best grain, from my experience, to fruit off of if you are not going to spawn it to a substrate like coir, verm, manure, etc.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineBombSquadron65
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: blackout]
    #22054273 - 08/06/15 04:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Violet answered the first part. I, myself, have not done this, but have heard and seen others do it.

Quote:

blackout said:This makes it sound like you have done it, especially in the context of this thread. But when I look at your other threads you have a monotub thread and you are adding spawn to bulk substrate.

When you hear people saying "cubensis do not even need a casing" they usually (like 99% of the time) mean mixing it with bulk substrate and not having a dedicated casing layer. But they do not mean fruiting straight off grains.

You will find some invitro grows of shrooms growing straight off grains but it is not optimal, and does not sound like what you were talking about.




Yes, I have done PF, done the greenhouse, and done monotubs. I don't like to talk about my specific outfits too much and I mostly lurk here, rarely posting. Hence my terribly low post count. Thank you for reminding me that I need to delete my pics from so long ago. I had forgotten about them.

Yes, I use a grain substrate for spawning and then a coir/verm/manure substrate for fruiting. Thank you for the explanation, but I do understand what the casing layer is. A casing is NEVER mixed with the substrate. It is on top to hold in moisture and to help minimize contamination.

Anything that is colonized can be induced to fruit, theoretically. The viablity and efficacy are certainly up for debate.


Edited by BombSquadron65 (08/06/15 04:03 PM)


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22054281 - 08/06/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

KauaiOrca said:
Quote:

Violet said:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21390984
It's limited mostly to invitro and grass seed specifically, but it actually has full yields with no issues.



I'm using this tek for the first time right now and getting good results with it and it's about as easy as it gets.  I've tried with and without casing and casing is producing bigger fruits for me with my strains.  I don't know why, it just is.  RGS is the best grain, from my experience, to fruit off of if you are not going to spawn it to a substrate like coir, verm, manure, etc.



Exactly!
That's awesome Orca! Be sure to update the thread with your results, pretty pretty please!
I'm curious to know if your larger fruits from cased seed are providing a larger yield than uncased, and if the yield is larger over 3-4 flushes.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: BombSquadron65]
    #22054305 - 08/06/15 04:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Okay I see the confusion.  When you said this. . .

Quote:

BombSquadron65 said:
Yes, you can, but your flushes won't be as full as if you had used a more nutritious substrate.

In fact, you could just take the colonized grains and simply fruit them like they are, without using any casing whatsoever. You'll need to monitor the humidity, but there is no reason you should need to apply a casing layer in that scenario.

Casing is used for two purposes: a barrier to protect the medium from contamination and/or to help the medium retain moisture. I fruit my monotub using just straight substrate, as there is no need for casing.




You actually meant to say this. . .

Quote:

BombSquadron65 said:
Yes, you can, but your flushes won't be as full as if you had spawned to a bulk substrate.

In fact, you could just take the colonized grains and simply case then fruit them like they are, without spawning to bulk whatsoever. There is no reason you shouldn't apply a casing layer in that scenario.

Casing is used for two purposes: to provide a microclimate and provide a decent pinning platform or surface. I fruit my monotub using just bulk substrate, as there is no need for casing.




I can agree with those sediments.


Edited by Pastywhyte (08/06/15 05:27 PM)


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Violet]
    #22054319 - 08/06/15 04:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:

Exactly!
That's awesome Orca! Be sure to update the thread with your results, pretty pretty please!
I'm curious to know if your larger fruits from cased seed are providing a larger yield than uncased, and if the yield is larger over 3-4 flushes.




Hi Violet!  I've got both some quart jars going with two different strains comparing cased and uncased and using bottom watering on both as you recommend.  SUPER EASY.  The cased grains fruits are thicker and heavier and I'm in the middle of second flush and am thinking of tossing after this flush and starting another ... but maybe I'll keep it going to see what happens, not sure.  I'm not that concerned about measuring efficiency more interested in finding really good fast fruiting strains at this point.

My PE strain is the slowest so far and hasn't fruited yet on the uncased quart jars so can't really say with them.

Also, I'm really stoked about the four MS pint jars (different strains) I've got going ... first pins showed up today for the whole culturing system.  Had a bunch of company over for a wedding and was super easy to put it all away and hide it ... haha ... try that with tubs and SGFC's!

Next up is with WBR and casing as I've never prepare whole brown rice.  What's great is I can have literally 10 different grows (testing) going on one shelf in my home office!


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22054372 - 08/06/15 04:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah that's awesome!
Have pictures of those flushes, by chance? If so, add them to the thread! It/they could use more photos by other growers showing how easy it is for beginners too, and how good of a result is possible.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Violet]
    #22054421 - 08/06/15 04:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Yeah that's awesome!
Have pictures of those flushes, by chance? If so, add them to the thread! It/they could use more photos by other growers showing how easy it is for beginners too, and how good of a result is possible.




Pictures?  Haha ... I don't have quite the "courage" you guys have with posting evidence of grows ... What I can say is I was surprised how big and stout those cased fruits were coming from that relatively small "puck" of RGS/casing.  I am 100% sure that for a beginner, this is the easiest tek to get good results with PROVIDED you have a clean culture to begin with.  The pint jars I started with MS spores is the first time I've ever done (MS spores directly to grain)  that as I usually make a clean LC first and inoculate with that.  It is SLOW with MS spores directly to the RGS. 

This all hides the bigger benefit though of being able to test so many cultures in a small space without a bunch of tubs really quickly.  The risk is tiny as if one goes bad you lose ONE JAR  ... BFD.  I am surprised the cracked jar gives enough FAE but it does -- you're 100% right on that.  For the first time, I'm confident I'll find one of those great, fast and big fruiting super clone cultures as I took a bunch of really clean pins that are now growing out on agar with almost no visible contams.  The grows start clean, stay clean and reduces contamination risk to nearly ZERO.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


Edited by KauaiOrca (08/06/15 04:45 PM)


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22054458 - 08/06/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Awe that's too bad.  For what it's worth, there's no need for concern. If these huge-growing TC's and tek artists like myself can instruct hundreds of thousands of people with no consequence, there's nothing to worry about in small growers posting pictures, which is not illegal in and of itself, nor is it admissible, nor is there a truly functional means of using it for warrants, especially so defended by the site's privacy policy.  I hope you consider it!

I'm glad that the culture tek is working out for you!
FYI, P.E. fruits more quickly, perhaps better, with casing layers. The difference is more noticeable with PE than others


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Violet]
    #22054510 - 08/06/15 04:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Awe that's too bad.  For what it's worth, there's no need for concern. If these huge-growing TC's and tek artists like myself can instruct hundreds of thousands of people with no consequence, there's nothing to worry about in small growers posting pictures, which is not illegal in and of itself, nor is it admissible, nor is there a truly functional means of using it for warrants, especially so defended by the site's privacy policy.  I hope you consider it!

I'm glad that the culture tek is working out for you!
FYI, P.E. fruits more quickly, perhaps better, with casing layers. The difference is more noticeable with PE than others




OK, when I get a really killer clone culture grow completed, I'll post some pics!  Might take some time.  I've got some SA's that are showing HUGE potential -- want to grow out of the jars ... busting out at the seams! 

If you're ever in Central Oregon, let me know as I owe you a beer (or two or three!) for all the great ideas and suggestions and let me tell you, we have great beer here!


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Violet]
    #22054520 - 08/06/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

blackout said:

Have you done this, or can you point to any threads talking about this.



Again, http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21390984
It's limited mostly to invitro and grass seed specifically, but it actually has full yields with no issues.



Yep, I'm aware of that thread, I was the last person to post in it! I had also said
"You will find some invitro grows of shrooms growing straight off grains but it is not optimal, and does not sound like what you were talking about."

though in saying that I meant "regular" grains, I look at RGS as an oddball grain and it had not been mentioned. I was looking for examples of rye/wheat grain shaken and uncased and fruited using more traditional methods, which is what he appeared to infer, and what the OP would probably understand it to mean.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: blackout]
    #22054533 - 08/06/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Gotcha.  It is indeed an oddball! A wonderful oddball at that


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Violet]
    #22054623 - 08/06/15 05:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

This thread is so :smbfacepalm:


--------------------
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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: taGyo] * 1
    #22054722 - 08/06/15 05:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

NO U


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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InvisibleShamanaut17
Registered: 06/26/15
Posts: 30
Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? *DELETED* [Re: Mdahmer]
    #22056066 - 08/06/15 11:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by Shamanaut17

Reason for deletion: Old



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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Shamanaut17]
    #22056783 - 08/07/15 06:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shamanaut17 said:
Quote:

Mdahmer said:
no you definitley dont need too, when i first started growing the most common thing i saw on the internet was cased grains. sometimes it works pretty well you just have to make sure they get enough water.

but really a brick of coir is like a few dollars at the pet store and verm is around 8 for a big bag which you seem to have already or will be buying anyway if you are casing with it. you dont need the hydrated lime unless you are casing with peat and need it for PH.

if you just wanna get a few mushrooms to see if you like growing then go for it i guess i would just like to see you get a bunch of mushrooms lol. i was blown away the first time i did a monotub its a little more work  in the beginning but then you have this awesome fully contained setup that produces mad fungus.



what are you planning to fruit this in if you do just cased grains?





Okay I guess Im going to have to experiment and see what type of flush I get with the grains on its own as I dont necessarily need a huge yield. But if I'm not satisfied, I would like to move on to spawning coir (or whatever seems to be of good nutrition) in a monotub. Im sorry im new, but can you please explain exactly what a 'monotub' is/consists of in the mycology world? And I plan to put my tub on a bed of hydrated perlite in a large clear fruiting chamber (sterilite tote box) with holes drilled stuffed with polyfill. I will try to keep the humidity around 95-100% and fan 3-5 times a day. Does this sound good for a cased grain setup?




Might be helpful for you to research a SGFC and a Monotub ... lots and lots of threads and information about both.  They are two DIFFERENT types of fruiting chambers and what you describe is a hybrid of the two which is probably a bad idea.  (SGFC = shot gun fruiting chamber).


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleShamanaut17
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Posts: 30
Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? *DELETED* [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22057437 - 08/07/15 09:16 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by Shamanaut17

Reason for deletion: Old



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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Shamanaut17]
    #22057486 - 08/07/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shamanaut17 said:
Okay kauaiorca I was kinda thinking that last night. But before I go out and research everybodys opinions on what to do for a sgfc or monotub, can you please give me your definition of a monotub and of a sgfc? Thanks alot all of your guys' help will be veryyyy appreciated and shown in my highly anticipated grow soon:)




Monotub
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17332777/fpart/15/vc/1/nt/17#17332777

SGFC
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20195542


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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InvisibleShamanaut17
Registered: 06/26/15
Posts: 30
Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? *DELETED* [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22058786 - 08/07/15 01:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by Shamanaut17

Reason for deletion: Old



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InvisibleKauaiOrca
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Shamanaut17]
    #22058838 - 08/07/15 02:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shamanaut17 said:
Okay I understand now a monotub is the fruiting chamber itself that you place your substrate in, and a SGFC is a humidified fruiting chamber that you place your cakes in on top of a perlite bed, yes? Question: I plan to make a SGFC with my large clear 19 gal sterilite box. I have my polyfil and everything already. Can I setup the sgfc with the FAE holes and bed of hydrated perlite and place a 9x13x3 pan of grain on the bed of perlite? Or are SGFCs JUST for cakes and monotubs are JUST for grains?




If I was you, I would follow directions to the letter for either a mono tub or a SGFC.  The SGFC has the perlite in the bottom and lots of small holes in a grid pattern all over the surface of the plastic container.  The Monotub has no perlite and larger but less in number holes with polyfil.

I think most people think of an SGFC for cakes or smaller jars and a mono tub for large trays.  The SGFC doesn't work as well if you cover the perlite completely with large trays. 

Read the directions carefully and follow them.  Do not try to figure it out on your own.  Those two systems have been tested and improved extensively.  Whatever you do to "change" them will not improve your results but, most likely, do exactly the opposite.


--------------------
"The universe is endless, limitless and infinite.  Any effort to define it's boundaries is an attempt to overcome ignorance.  We are physical, mental and spiritual beings ... there is no beginning and there is no end.  There is only memory.  Our repeated loss of memory experiences create the illusion of beginnings and ends.  Immortality is the ability to retain full memory through all consciousness transformations.  Loss of memory is man's greatest curse and, in very real terms, death."

-- Ancient Taoist Master


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OfflineMdahmer
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: KauaiOrca]
    #22059694 - 08/07/15 05:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

well a monotub doesnt hold trays it is a tub full of substrate and the sub itself provides the humidity.

but yes you can put a tray of grain in a sgfc thats the way to do it unless you have a green house. if the tray is going to cover a large surface of the perlite just find something to raise it up a few inches. like a little metal rack of some kind


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