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InvisibleShamanaut17
Registered: 06/26/15
Posts: 30
Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? *DELETED*
    #22053610 - 08/06/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

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Offlineblackout
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Shamanaut17]
    #22053630 - 08/06/15 01:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yes you can just case, I had some very decent grows doing just that. The bulk would supply more moisture. People with suspect possibly contaminated looking jars may case them while its still in the jar, since if they did shake and mix its likely it would not recolonize.


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InvisibleShamanaut17
Registered: 06/26/15
Posts: 30
Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? *DELETED* [Re: blackout]
    #22053649 - 08/06/15 01:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

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OfflineMdahmer
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Shamanaut17]
    #22053752 - 08/06/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

no you definitley dont need too, when i first started growing the most common thing i saw on the internet was cased grains. sometimes it works pretty well you just have to make sure they get enough water.

but really a brick of coir is like a few dollars at the pet store and verm is around 8 for a big bag which you seem to have already or will be buying anyway if you are casing with it. you dont need the hydrated lime unless you are casing with peat and need it for PH.

if you just wanna get a few mushrooms to see if you like growing then go for it i guess i would just like to see you get a bunch of mushrooms lol. i was blown away the first time i did a monotub its a little more work  in the beginning but then you have this awesome fully contained setup that produces mad fungus.



what are you planning to fruit this in if you do just cased grains?


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OfflinetaGyo
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Mdahmer]
    #22053847 - 08/06/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Just top fruit it if that's what you want to do. Case it at the top. That's what I did with my avatar pic.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: taGyo]
    #22053930 - 08/06/15 02:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

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OfflineBombSquadron65
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: taGyo]
    #22053935 - 08/06/15 02:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, you can, but your flushes won't be as full as if you had used a more nutritious substrate.

In fact, you could just take the colonized grains and simply fruit them like they are, without using any casing whatsoever. You'll need to monitor the humidity, but there is no reason you should need to apply a casing layer in that scenario.

Casing is used for two purposes: a barrier to protect the medium from contamination and/or to help the medium retain moisture. I fruit my monotub using just straight substrate, as there is no need for casing.


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OfflineMdahmer
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: BombSquadron65]
    #22053993 - 08/06/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

if you fruit just grains they should certainly be cased, and a casing is not there to protect against contams in anyway. it's not even really there for moisture retention either it provides a micro climate for the pins to form although in the case of straight grains i imagine it does help in retaining moisture cause grains by themselves would probably dry out

i imagine this bombsquad is someones puppet that they dont use very often but i just wanted to make sure no one gets confused by his nonsense.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: BombSquadron65]
    #22054104 - 08/06/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BombSquadron65 said:
Yes, you can, but your flushes won't be as full as if you had used a more nutritious substrate.

In fact, you could just take the colonized grains and simply fruit them like they are, without using any casing whatsoever. You'll need to monitor the humidity, but there is no reason you should need to apply a casing layer in that scenario.

Casing is used for two purposes: a barrier to protect the medium from contamination and/or to help the medium retain moisture. I fruit my monotub using just straight substrate, as there is no need for casing.




:lolwut:

Nearly every statement in this whole post is wrong :facepalm:


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Shamanaut17]
    #22054133 - 08/06/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shamanaut17 said:
So i dont NEED to spawn the rye seed to something more nutritious before i case?




most of the nutrition in your bulk sub comes from the grain, the amount of nutrition in the sub itself is pretty low.

but no, you dont need to spawn the rye to bulk but you really should do it for best results IMO.


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OfflineBombSquadron65
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22054134 - 08/06/15 03:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Quote:

BombSquadron65 said:
Yes, you can, but your flushes won't be as full as if you had used a more nutritious substrate.

In fact, you could just take the colonized grains and simply fruit them like they are, without using any casing whatsoever. You'll need to monitor the humidity, but there is no reason you should need to apply a casing layer in that scenario.

Casing is used for two purposes: a barrier to protect the medium from contamination and/or to help the medium retain moisture. I fruit my monotub using just straight substrate, as there is no need for casing.




:lolwut:

Nearly every statement in this whole post is wrong :facepalm:



Okay. Care to actually provide information?


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: BombSquadron65]
    #22054142 - 08/06/15 03:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I did. And have. 16K posts worth. Use the search engine and you can learn much :strokebeard2:


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: BombSquadron65]
    #22054170 - 08/06/15 03:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Not entirely...

Quote:

BombSquadron65 said:
Yes, you can, but your flushes won't be as full as if you had used a more nutritious substrate.



Why do you think this?
Pound for pound, grass seed is just as nutritious as any cereal grain.  Some people think as you do because of the different qualities that grass seed has - it's lighter and much smaller seeds are less dense and so a pound of substrate occupies more space than other grains do, leading to a substrate of the same size perhaps having lesser nutrition.  But this has other advantages, including greater spread and even ease of consumption, which can potentially produce an even greater yield in the right circumstances than other grains.


The rest of that is actually fairly accurate, even if not exactly as said.
The contam barrier is not exactly true as said, with the exception that the surface of dried colonized grains is indeed more vulnerable to contams, and a major purpose of a casing layer on grains is to prevent that.


I have found, in my many tests and experiments, that grass seed is uniquely successful in fruiting without a casing layer.  All other grains are too dense and/or large in their structure to be easily consumed quickly enough to ready the substrate for fruiting and for providing the ideal surface with a condition of no- or low-nutrition.

However, no grain is very good at retaining moisture when in a condition to lose just about ANY moisture. For this reason, grass seed should only be allowed to fruit uncased when in invitro conditions, such as enclosed container teks like the first of the two links I posted above.


OP - If you choose to break apart colonized 'cakes' of grass seed and lay them out in some kind of tray, something which I consider not preferable to keeping cakes whole,  they most definitely need a casing layer.  Considering you're going thru all those steps you would benefit, instead of casing, by adding at least a quart of bulk substrate to provide some moisture, provide points of no- or low-nutrition, and hold the cake together, also providing a flat top surface where moisture loss will be no problem in good fruiting conditions.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: BombSquadron65]
    #22054175 - 08/06/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BombSquadron65 said:
In fact, you could just take the colonized grains and simply fruit them like they are, without using any casing whatsoever.



Have you done this, or can you point to any threads talking about this.

Quote:

BombSquadron65 said:
I fruit my monotub using just straight substrate, as there is no need for casing.


This makes it sound like you have done it, especially in the context of this thread. But when I look at your other threads you have a monotub thread and you are adding spawn to bulk substrate.

When you hear people saying "cubensis do not even need a casing" they usually (like 99% of the time) mean mixing it with bulk substrate and not having a dedicated casing layer. But they do not mean fruiting straight off grains.

You will find some invitro grows of shrooms growing straight off grains but it is not optimal, and does not sound like what you were talking about.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: blackout]
    #22054195 - 08/06/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

BombSquadron65 said:
In fact, you could just take the colonized grains and simply fruit them like they are, without using any casing whatsoever.



Have you done this, or can you point to any threads talking about this.



Again, http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21390984
It's limited mostly to invitro and grass seed specifically, but it actually has full yields with no issues.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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OfflineBombSquadron65
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22054211 - 08/06/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I did. And have. 16K posts worth. Use the search engine and you can learn much :strokebeard:



My point being, simply saying "you're wrong" isn't helpful. I'm wrong about what? If you can't even begin to say what I got wrong, what am I supposed to look up and learn about?

Substrates don't need nutrition for prolonged flushes? Because I got that from reading on these forums. I was told that manure and other nutritious bits are helpful to strengthen further flushes.

The casing layer isn't primarily used for retaining moisture/protecting the substrate? I got that from the Shroomery FAQ.

By all means, I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, but if you can't even state what is incorrect, then where am I to even begin to correct my misconceptions?


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: BombSquadron65]
    #22054217 - 08/06/15 03:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

tick the "No older than" box in the search engine :super:


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Violet]
    #22054227 - 08/06/15 03:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Violet said:
Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

BombSquadron65 said:
In fact, you could just take the colonized grains and simply fruit them like they are, without using any casing whatsoever.



Have you done this, or can you point to any threads talking about this.



Again, http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21390984
It's limited mostly to invitro and grass seed specifically, but it actually has full yields with no issues.




I think the confusion is in Bombs implication that he did this by laying out the grain in a mono. Where your method at least has the benefit of some documentation and a basis in science as to why it works,  uncased grain or RGS broken up then laid in a mono is gonna be a poor route.


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: BombSquadron65]
    #22054254 - 08/06/15 03:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BombSquadron65 said:
Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
I did. And have. 16K posts worth. Use the search engine and you can learn much :strokebeard:



My point being, simply saying "you're wrong" isn't helpful. I'm wrong about what? If you can't even begin to say what I got wrong, what am I supposed to look up and learn about?

Substrates don't need nutrition for prolonged flushes? Because I got that from reading on these forums. I was told that manure and other nutritious bits are helpful to strengthen further flushes.

The casing layer isn't primarily used for retaining moisture/protecting the substrate? I got that from the Shroomery FAQ.

By all means, I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, but if you can't even state what is incorrect, then where am I to even begin to correct my misconceptions?




I usually only go for one maybe two flushes with bulk. But most grains are going to always be the main source of nutes. If you want more nutes for more flushes then use more grain.

A casing with bulk is typically to provide a microclimate and pinning platform. With straw or straight grain it has the added bonus of keeping some moisture in.

Most of the other peoples posts were on point. I see no need to parrot the correct info. Didn't mean to come across as sharp as I did tho. My apologies.


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Can you fruit from just cased colonized rye seed? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #22054259 - 08/06/15 03:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Oh, yeah, if he does mean just straight seed in a mono that's not a very good idea. Highly wasteful at BEST.
For whatever reason tho, I didn't get that implication.  I figured he just meant mono with bulk sub as normal.


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

PODS TEK - Growing Invitro with BRF/verm or Grass Seed containers
The simplest, quickest, safest tek!  For beginners, culturers, lazy people, stealth lovers, contam haters, and alternative seekers!
Violet's Teks and Posts


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