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deadend
Stranger

Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 33
Loc: Dirty South
Last seen: 4 years, 11 months
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Jar lid pressure cooker fail
#22053446 - 08/06/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Purchased pre-made injectable wide-mouth jar lids, made of plastic, from a trusted supplier. Prepared five quart jars of WBS, screwed lids on, covered with foil, and loaded into the pressure cooker for 90 minutes at 15 psi. Woke up the next morning to find all the lids melted and warped.


If lids cannot survive the PC, how else can the jars be sterilized with this lid?
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champinhom
Lord Justhappensness


Registered: 03/06/09
Posts: 987
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: deadend]
#22053462 - 08/06/15 12:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deadend said: Purchased pre-made injectable wide-mouth jar lids, made of plastic, from a trusted supplier. Prepared five quart jars of WBS, screwed lids on, covered with foil, and loaded into the pressure cooker for 90 minutes at 15 psi. Woke up the next morning to find all the lids melted and warped.
If lids cannot survive the PC, how else can the jars be sterilized with this lid?
I am surprised this happened. I have used plastic lids on mason jars before in the PC with no problem. I bought the lids at the same place I bought the jars. The lids are made for the jars. It could be that you didn't loosen the lids. Did you put the jars in the PC with the lids twisted tight? If so, the steam inside the jars could easily blow the center out of the plastic lid. I would suppose that that pent up concentrated steam would be hotter than the melting temp of the lids.
Then again, maybe the lids you bought were not up to pressure cooker temps in any situation.
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Edited by champinhom (08/06/15 12:48 PM)
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deadend
Stranger

Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 33
Loc: Dirty South
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: champinhom]
#22063819 - 08/08/15 05:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I screwed them on hand tight. Not as tight as I would for BRF jars but not loose either. Should I have left them loose? They were advertised as %100 autoclavable.
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OPB
Wanderer

Registered: 05/30/15
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: deadend]
#22063871 - 08/08/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It is crazy that they melted that much but I too believe it must have been from tightening them. You cant pressure cook any container that doesn't have some sort of vent. This is why people leave the lods loose or create a vent of some sort. Your moist grain must have boiled a bit creating it's own steam and then created it's own pressure. You may have had 30psi in those jars or something crazy like that.
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Edited by OPB (08/08/15 06:09 PM)
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: OPB] 1
#22063915 - 08/08/15 06:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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you sure can pressure cook something with a sealed lid as long as it's liquid on the inside. the pressure inside the jar and outside the jar are both at 15 the jar won't crack. I PC my agar bottles with the lid tightened down
 no filter lid just a normal un-modified lid. these jars are made for pouring agar many real labs use them. some people loosen the lid in the autoclave. I personally don't. the agar boils when the steam provides latent heat energy during pressurization. the pressure builds up in the jar at the same rate it does outside the jar. when you take out your jar later on then you don't have a vacuum or pressure formed since you put the agar in the jar at the same temp you will pour it at when you remove the cap after sterilization and it's cooled to pour there is no air going to get sucked in when you loosen the lid.
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 21 days
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: bodhisatta]
#22063970 - 08/08/15 06:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Looks like you ran the pc dry, or nearly dry. That would cause this.
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deadend
Stranger

Registered: 01/08/13
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: invitro]
#22064029 - 08/08/15 06:43 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
invitro said: Looks like you ran the pc dry, or nearly dry. That would cause this.
This is possible. I filled it to just below the bottom of the jars, but was using a rack that only raised the jars about an inch off the bottom of the PC. How much water do you usually use?
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: bodhisatta]
#22064045 - 08/08/15 06:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: you sure can pressure cook something with a sealed lid as long as it's liquid on the inside. the pressure inside the jar and outside the jar are both at 15 the jar won't crack. I PC my agar bottles with the lid tightened down
 no filter lid just a normal un-modified lid. these jars are made for pouring agar many real labs use them. some people loosen the lid in the autoclave. I personally don't. the agar boils when the steam provides latent heat energy during pressurization. the pressure builds up in the jar at the same rate it does outside the jar. when you take out your jar later on then you don't have a vacuum or pressure formed since you put the agar in the jar at the same temp you will pour it at when you remove the cap after sterilization and it's cooled to pour there is no air going to get sucked in when you loosen the lid.
Those jars are fantastic for agar pouring. I recently got 4 1000ml ones.
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: deadend]
#22064049 - 08/08/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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An inch of water is what I use, sometimes 3/4". The real issue it that you probably ran the pc too hot, that means more flame than is necessary to reach 15 psi, the rocker was probably hissing quite often and you lost all your water through steam. You'll need to learn how to dial in the flame so the rocker only goes off once every 5 minutes or so.
When you do, you'll find that you might use 1/8 of an inch of water, the rest of the water is there as a buffer in case you messed up and ran the heat too high by accident.
Coincidentally I'm working on an automated gadget for this, so you are always dialed in perfectly.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: deadend]
#22064052 - 08/08/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Was the PC low on or out of water when you opened it?
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: Kizzle]
#22064136 - 08/08/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kizzle said: Was the PC low on or out of water when you opened it?
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deadend
Stranger

Registered: 01/08/13
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: cronicr]
#22068332 - 08/09/15 05:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
Kizzle said: Was the PC low on or out of water when you opened it?
.............
Yes. Floor of the PC has an outter ring, about 2 inches in width and an inner circle that is recessed lower than the outter ring. The water had been reduced to a thin puddle covering the inner cirlce and only drops on the outter ring.
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inked4life
Fungi finesse


Registered: 06/28/15
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: deadend]
#22068528 - 08/09/15 05:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i had it happen when i pc some agar and forgot to loosen the lid. doesnt matter if there was water left in the pc or not. gases buildt up and blew out the lids. i feel your pain , i alway when pc jars , to loosen all lids so this dont happen, cover with aluminum foil and as long as you dont have your jars floating in water , no extra unintended water will enter the jars. i have also had jars that cracked from having the lids on hand tight. makes a mess.....
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: inked4life]
#22069907 - 08/09/15 10:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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When the water runs out the temperature rises and it'll melt plastic lids or filters. There's no reason to loosen the lids.
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tetherface
get in where you fit in



Registered: 10/05/14
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: Kizzle]
#22069991 - 08/09/15 11:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I always pc with my lids tight I thought everybody did so the air would be fitered upon cooling? OP i wonder how hot that PC got? that shit sux
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: tetherface]
#22070011 - 08/09/15 11:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just to clarify I'm talking liquid water. Don't let that little puddle of water fool you into thinking it had enough water. It's just from the steam condensing after it was shut off.
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Psilosoulful

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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: tetherface]
#22070014 - 08/09/15 11:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I always tighten my lids, and have never had a jar crack on me soo.. It's a pressure canner for a reason, I mean, you don't loosen the lids before canning fruits and vegetables, so why do it for grains.
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elasticaltiger
Like Tigers in Coitus




Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 8,066
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22070093 - 08/09/15 11:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Your pressure cooker ran out of water.
Check it for warps before you use it again.
I always tighten my lids fully.
It's ok for the water level to rise above the bottom of the jar.
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tommy toke alot
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Registered: 08/02/14
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I made the same mistake of tightening them once and my tyvek filter melted, hust loosen the lid a quarter turn and you should be fine
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deadend
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Thanks for all the feedback. Will have another go at it and follow-up.
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tetherface
get in where you fit in



Registered: 10/05/14
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Quote:
tommy toke alot said: I made the same mistake of tightening them once and my tyvek filter melted, hust loosen the lid a quarter turn and you should be fine
i'm not sure why it melted, but that's not why your tyvek melted
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Juiceh
Dabbing All Day



Registered: 09/25/12
Posts: 3,208
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Re: Jar lid pressure cooker fail [Re: tetherface]
#22071495 - 08/10/15 12:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilosoulful said: I always tighten my lids, and have never had a jar crack on me soo.. It's a pressure canner for a reason, I mean, you don't loosen the lids before canning fruits and vegetables, so why do it for grains.
The only times I've cracked a jar in the PC was when making LCs in qt jars with plastic lids with gaskets and a watman filter in the lid. 2x in a row, tightened(hand tight, no wrenching down at all) lids before PC, jars cracked. As soon as I left them 1/4 turn loose they stopped cracking. I had 1 LC jar survive sealed without cracking out of a handful. I was not sure if it was the plastic lid or the watman filter in combination with the plastic lid and LC that lead to cracked jars.
It was a long time ago but I did a batch of grains in qt jars with plastic lids and watman filters for shiitake before I started making LCs. I tightened those lids and the jars didn't crack.
Metal lid jars with 1/4" holes with SFD patches I can PC all day with sealed lids, grains or LC. So it had to have something to do with the plastic lids & watman filters that don't go well with LC when the lid is closed all the way.
Making SD-H2O, I have sealed the jars without even a filter patch and they don't crack.
So unless its an LC jar with a gasketed plastic lid and a watman filter all my jars are tightened.
Quote:
tetherface said:
Quote:
tommy toke alot said: I made the same mistake of tightening them once and my tyvek filter melted, hust loosen the lid a quarter turn and you should be fine
i'm not sure why it melted, but that's not why your tyvek melted
Tyvek won't melt from the jar being sealed. I've PC sealed jars with tyvek filters many times. Sounds like tommy toke alot accidentally ran the water too low\dry in his PC too.
Edited by Juiceh (08/10/15 12:27 PM)
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