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Asante
Mage


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August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki
#22051988 - 08/06/15 06:50 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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source & commemorative article
"August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki"
Thats really the best way I could put the title of this post. For the Americans it was a story of unprecedented scientific triumph, of military secrecy and unprecedented victory.
The Japanese story wasnt about the Imperial Army or the Emperor or the war effort, it was simply that of two citie full of civilians, just like your city and your town, just people doing their everyday thing, that suddenly and completely unexpectedly was hit by a fireball hotter than the core of the sun, nuclear fire, blast and radioactivity in unprecedented destruction.
Here is a respectful re-enactment of what the explosion and immediate aftermath was like, with a few real eye witness accounts included by the survivors of the Hiroshima explosion themselves.
This is not a debate topic. This is not about whether it was right or wrong or whatever.
Its a commemorative thread.
I ask of you, symbolically, to post the image of flowers and peace symbols in respect for the fallen of Hiroshima, and perhaps add some words of respect.
Basically, what they are doing, today, in downtown Hiroshima by the monument, and in varied places in Japan and the world.
We normally turn threads into a party, let's be more solemn in this one.
"If you haven't got anything nice to say, please don't say anything at all"
In honor of the many tens of thousands who died in the moment of destruction and in the aftermath in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
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OhMrJohnson
Ashes Against The Grain

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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante] 1
#22051994 - 08/06/15 06:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Requiescat in pace
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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace.. Once and for all!
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twighead
mͯó



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: OhMrJohnson] 1
#22051998 - 08/06/15 06:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by Asante (08/06/15 07:34 AM)
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Asante
Mage


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante]
#22052012 - 08/06/15 07:00 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Replenish Peacefully in Divinity's Embrace
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante] 3
#22052043 - 08/06/15 07:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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OK so I hope you approve, I mean no disrespect by posting this. But here's an scene from Hadashi no Gen (Barefoot Gen) of what it was like when the A-bomb went off. I know it's an anime, but I have read it's fairly accurate.
Kinda puts things into perspective, the horrors they went through.
-------------------- ©️
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Lucis]
#22052106 - 08/06/15 07:41 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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No that's completely respectful, carry on.
During my last trip I experienced a sequence of the events that happened there. It was deeply moving and gave me a totally different and *personal* perspective on the nuclear bombing. It inspired me to make this thread.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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daz01
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante] 3
#22052123 - 08/06/15 07:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Horrible event. Let's hope something like this never happens EVER again.
-------------------- Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: daz01]
#22052133 - 08/06/15 07:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I blame the US for this
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already



Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Patlal] 1
#22052134 - 08/06/15 07:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think there's enough blame to go around for everyone.
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Asante
Mage


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: daz01]
#22052190 - 08/06/15 08:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Commemoration comes in many guises, these children stage a "die-in" in honor of the fallen.

A good article by the Daily Mail showing many pictures from then (graphic) and now, today's commemoration in Hiroshima.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante] 1
#22052219 - 08/06/15 08:21 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes n soon we get to celebrate VJ day on the tenth!
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#22052299 - 08/06/15 08:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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We didn't even need to do it. We had already won. We were blockading them with mine technology we got from the German's being stupid as fuck
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub] 2
#22052378 - 08/06/15 09:02 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Let's hope this tragedy never happens again.
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Turtletotem]
#22052455 - 08/06/15 09:19 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't know. Muslems are a pretty huge problem. If we turned Mecca into nothing, maybe they would know Allah is fake. I'm somewhat kidding. They are the enemies of liberal democratic values
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub] 2
#22052550 - 08/06/15 09:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: We didn't even need to do it. We had already won. We were blockading them with mine technology we got from the German's being stupid as fuck
Almost every military expert at the time said it needed to be done hell we had to drop two bombs before they got the message the war could have continued potentially for decades at a huge cost to humanity. It was meant to be the bomb that ended all world wars. When that bomb hit it sent a message to the world that nothing again would be the same. Lets not forget what got japan into this predicament. The japanese government made thier own bed.
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#22052561 - 08/06/15 09:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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They had resorted to suicide attacks. We had won. They couldn't stop Operation Starvation because of our technology we got from the Germans. I think it was a show off power display to crush the will of that country. What message was there to get? They are on islands. They were fucked
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub] 4
#22052571 - 08/06/15 09:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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a siege on an island that they lived in isolation on for hundreds of years jus prior to this war oh yeh that would have totally worked in no time. Do you have any idea wtf happened in the history of the world any clue at all? WWII was fucking real serious bro alot of people got killed n there were horrible atrocities commited show some fucking respect u ungrateful ignoranmus people fucking killed and died for this shit you fuck.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub] 2
#22052582 - 08/06/15 09:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: I don't know. Muslems are a pretty huge problem. If we turned Mecca into nothing, maybe they would know Allah is fake. I'm somewhat kidding. They are the enemies of liberal democratic values
We've got plenty of people in power, right here, right now, who are much worse enemies of our democratic values than some hate-beards living in the mountains. These people make sure that your attention is on the Muslims, and not on them. And you bought it.
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Turtletotem]
#22052654 - 08/06/15 10:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Turtletotem said:
Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: I don't know. Muslems are a pretty huge problem. If we turned Mecca into nothing, maybe they would know Allah is fake. I'm somewhat kidding. They are the enemies of liberal democratic values
We've got plenty of people in power, right here, right now, who are much worse enemies of our democratic values than some hate-beards living in the mountains. These people make sure that your attention is on the Muslims, and not on them. And you bought it.
Watch 'Stacy and the Muslem Problem'. They are breeding and actively taking control of places that aren't shit holes. In a few decades they will be the majority in France. What then with our values? I watched a long documentary on Saudi Arabia. We should have invaded it years ago. It pumps out radicals constantly because of a deal made by the royal family years ago. Not that there are liberal Muslems.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub] 1
#22052703 - 08/06/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
specialpeopleclub said:
Quote:
Turtletotem said:
Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: I don't know. Muslems are a pretty huge problem. If we turned Mecca into nothing, maybe they would know Allah is fake. I'm somewhat kidding. They are the enemies of liberal democratic values
We've got plenty of people in power, right here, right now, who are much worse enemies of our democratic values than some hate-beards living in the mountains. These people make sure that your attention is on the Muslims, and not on them. And you bought it.
Watch 'Stacy and the Muslem Problem'. They are breeding and actively taking control of places that aren't shit holes. In a few decades they will be the majority in France. What then with our values? I watched a long documentary on Saudi Arabia. We should have invaded it years ago. It pumps out radicals constantly because of a deal made by the royal family years ago. Not that there are liberal Muslems.
Ah yes, the muslim-problem.
Now where have we heard such language before? In a WW2 thread, even.
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Edited by Turtletotem (08/06/15 10:29 AM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante]
#22052758 - 08/06/15 10:38 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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"The physicists have known sin. And this is a knowledge which they cannot lose." --Robert Oppenheimer
I just hope we as a species have it in ourselves never to do this again. Hopefully AI, when it comes, can take over control of our devices and ensure that we're no longer anywhere near "the button."
And to set the record straight on the history, yes, the attacks were necessary. The Japanese generals, even after the second attack, were planning for a land war on the islands of Japan. They wanted to suck us in. It took a personal intercession from emperor Hirohito to surrender, and draw up terms with General MacArthur. I've read quite a bit about this, they were not about to surrender, and, to repeat, even after the bombs were dropped, many very high ranking Japanese military brass wanted to continue the fight.
Thank God it ended the deadliest war in human history, but may the souls of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and their kin and countrymen, continue to live in peace -- and free of the specter of another war, and another ghastly and tragic attack.
Amen.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Turtletotem]
#22052810 - 08/06/15 10:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I saw that coming. Because Islam is a race, right. Not spoke violent, inflexible tradition adhered to by billions of morons. It has a very clear point of view that can't be avoided with contradictions like the bible. Though, yeah. Worrying about a giant growing cult of people that kill artists, gays, apostates, drug users is the same as the Nazis, who were really very friendly with Muslems because of their shared opinions on Jews. There aren't even a hundred million Jews out there, let alone a billion. Plus, they seem relatively peaceful and well read. Spain publishes more books in Spanish then all Muslem countries have transelated into Arabic, in one year. The point of Islam is to only have god in your head. It would be OK if it wasn't growing.
They could plan a land war all they want. We just had to let them starve it out and only engage in defense. What could they do? Come here?
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub] 2
#22052830 - 08/06/15 10:49 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Jews weren't a race either, but whatever.
You do realise that the vast majority of Muslims that arrive here are fleeing from the Muslims that are doing the hating and killing?
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Hippocampus



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Turtletotem]
#22052869 - 08/06/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm glad that Logan managed to save one person in Nagasaki, even though that guy turned into an evil genius that schemed to steal Wolverine's healing powers to live forever. It all worked out in the end.
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Turtletotem]
#22052871 - 08/06/15 10:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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They still believe in the Koran, and when asked, they agree that it knows how to deal with certain people. Look at the incomplete list of terrorist attacks on Wikipedia. These groups you call extreme are doing what the Koran wants. Even those not actively participating must agree, or they aren't really Muslems. It just isn't the same as Christianity or Judaism
The Jews trace their cultural heretage back to a geographical region, have somewhat distinguishing physical characteristics, a common religion, and you can't just 'become a Jew'. It takes work. These are three very different groups.
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Turtletotem
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#22052891 - 08/06/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Did you ever talk to refugees from Muslim countries?
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Turtletotem]
#22052908 - 08/06/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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No, I don't wish to. The correlation of high Muslem population, and place that no sane person would ever go is pretty much impossible to ignore. I started listening to the Koran, and got fed up bythe end of chapter 4. It only gets worse as Muhammed, pedophile murderer that he is, grows mad later in life
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#22052915 - 08/06/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I have. People from Syria. They are flooding Europe at the moment. It's heartbreaking what happens over there... These people are the victims, you must understand.
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Turtletotem]
#22052933 - 08/06/15 11:09 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm sure they are. Syria is something else. We have to hope Assad can crush the rebles who want Sharia. Sadly, most muslems want Sharia. I imagine even those that escape to Europe and polite it with that I shit culture, after they forget that it drove them out of their country.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,796
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#22053208 - 08/06/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Let's stay ontopic people, please.
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante]
#22053222 - 08/06/15 11:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm sorry, yes. The unnecessary blowing up of a few hundred thousand people.
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub] 1
#22053278 - 08/06/15 12:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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Hippocampus



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace] 1
#22054219 - 08/06/15 03:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Here is a link to a New Yorker article from 1946 with eye witness accounts of the Hiroshima bombing.
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1946/08/31/hiroshima?mbid=social_facebook
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Supachopped719
Stranger


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Hippocampus] 2
#22054462 - 08/06/15 04:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The first bomb was for coming into Pearl Harbor uninvited.
The second bomb was for leaving without saying good bye.
-------------------- Real Eyes Realize Real Lies.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: twighead]
#22054471 - 08/06/15 04:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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fun fact. that green glass that still exists at those sites in the desert fluoresces under uv light because of the uranium oxide.
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Supachopped719]
#22054729 - 08/06/15 05:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Supachopped719 said: The first bomb was for coming into Pearl Harbor uninvited.
The second bomb was for leaving without saying good bye.

I think you changed my opinion some with that
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trippinballs420
Samall Johnson



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Supachopped719] 1
#22054791 - 08/06/15 06:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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fuck them, they surprised us with pearl harbor and fucked us - we dropped 5 million leaflet warnings in 35 cities across japan warning them of the atomic bombs coming, saying
Quote:
“Read this carefully as it may save your life or the life of a relative or friend. In the next few days, some or all of the cities named on the reverse side will be destroyed by American bombs. These cities contain military installations and workshops or factories which produce military goods. We are determined to destroy all of the tools of the military clique which they are using to prolong this useless war. But, unfortunately, bombs have no eyes. So, in accordance with America’s humanitarian policies, the American Air Force, which does not wish to injure innocent people, now gives you warning to evacuate the cities named and save your lives. America is not fighting the Japanese people but is fighting the military clique which has enslaved the Japanese people. The peace which America will bring will free the people from the oppression of the military clique and mean the emergence of a new and better Japan. You can restore peace by demanding new and good leaders who will end the war. We cannot promise that only these cities will be among those attacked but some or all of them will be, so heed this warning and evacuate these cities immediately.”
sucks to be illiterate and stupid
Quote:
Supachopped719 said: The first bomb was for coming into Pearl Harbor uninvited.
The second bomb was for leaving without saying good bye.

fuck yes
-------------------- ModestMouse said: "Much love for all of the regs here that's all I got to say
"
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Konyap

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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: trippinballs420]
#22054980 - 08/06/15 06:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Getting sunburnded and having your teeth knocked out sounds bad but in asia people lose limbs everyday
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: trippinballs420]
#22055406 - 08/06/15 08:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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See did that? That was a nice thing we really didn't have to do
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#22055688 - 08/06/15 09:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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the us wasn't in ww1 
if there was a ww3 it wouldn't be because of ww2 it'd be because of the middle east dividing west and east
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twighead
mͯó



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Konyap]
#22055781 - 08/06/15 09:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konyap said: the us wasn't in ww1 
if there was a ww3 it wouldn't be because of ww2 it'd be because of the middle east dividing west and east
They weren't?
Seeing as 100,000+ Amerian military members died in WWI I would be inclined to believe that they indeed were fighting in it.
In fact it was the 3rd most casualties in any American war besides WWII and Civil.
I would not say the US 'won' the war - though they were on the winning side... they certainly helped hasten things.
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Konyap]
#22055888 - 08/06/15 10:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konyap said: the us wasn't in ww1 
Your history class must've sucked.
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
#22056195 - 08/07/15 12:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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and why was that?
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 3,763
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Konyap]
#22056332 - 08/07/15 01:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konyap said: the us wasn't in ww1 
There's a bigass graveyard filled with American soldiers from WW1 that disagrees with you.
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Turtletotem]
#22056470 - 08/07/15 02:19 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Turtletotem said:
Quote:
Konyap said: the us wasn't in ww1 
There's a bigass graveyard filled with American soldiers from WW1 that disagrees with you.
there's a graveyard that disagree's with me
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twighead
mͯó



Registered: 08/27/08
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Konyap]
#22056474 - 08/07/15 02:20 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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STAND UP FOR YOUR ABSURD BELIEFS COWARD, WE WISH TO TEAR THEM TO SHREDS
Go on, tell us your edgy reasoning bruv
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Konyap]
#22056481 - 08/07/15 02:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konyap said:
Quote:
Turtletotem said:
Quote:
Konyap said: the us wasn't in ww1 
There's a bigass graveyard filled with American soldiers from WW1 that disagrees with you.
there's a graveyard that disagree's with me
Yeah. You just think about that.
Back on topic...
Asante, I know you care a great deal about the victims of the bombs. People are still suffering today, that is not right. But it had to be done, you know? And dropping two atomic bombs on cities is an atrocity, but what the Japanese did to the Chinese in that war... that is something else entirely. It had to be done.
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 33,945
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: twighead]
#22056484 - 08/07/15 02:24 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Maybe they turned the tides of "battle," maybe they didn't
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



Registered: 09/02/13
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Konyap]
#22056488 - 08/07/15 02:25 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Holocaust deniers, moonlanding sceptics, and now aparently WW1 deniers? Jesus Christ where do you people keep coming from?
You wanna come to Europe? Do you want to see the graves, craters and trenches? There are battlefields where you can still find human remains and weaponry. Americans where involved.
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Edited by Turtletotem (08/07/15 02:26 AM)
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TNK
Pleasures of Africa



Registered: 01/30/10
Posts: 14,237
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Turtletotem]
#22056505 - 08/07/15 02:38 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects of the atomic bombings killed 90,000–166,000 people in Hiroshima and 39,000–80,000 in Nagasaki;
Source: HERE
That is pretty horrific, and crazy to think about happening. I pray that we never have to see in our life time another nuclear fall out and wide spread death.
Over 200,000 people dead as a result from a bombing that was unneeded. Anyone else hear about how the original plan was to drop flyers, and warn the Japanese of the potential use of nuclear weapons, but due to a mix up or something, the flyers we're dropped after the fact.
There was also a plan of dropping a bomb off the coast a Japan, sending a clear message, but I guess there is no clearer message than mass civilian casualties.
Very sad, very slalom.
-------------------- Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)
Edited by TNK (08/07/15 02:48 AM)
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: TNK]
#22056517 - 08/07/15 02:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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the fire works yeah they could have detonated it right over the city and it would've ended
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TNK
Pleasures of Africa



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Konyap]
#22056529 - 08/07/15 02:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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They could have even only dropped one bomb, over either city with the same result. No real need to drop two of them.
Very sad.
-------------------- Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


Registered: 09/30/12
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: TNK]
#22056558 - 08/07/15 03:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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There was a need to drop two. They didn't stop until we threatened to drop a third.
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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TNK
Pleasures of Africa



Registered: 01/30/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
#22056568 - 08/07/15 03:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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  You really think they would have continued to fight after such mass destruction? Our fire bombing campaign we're already devastating their ability to effectively fight, I doubt they would have continued to fight.
-------------------- Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,796
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Turtletotem] 3
#22056584 - 08/07/15 03:34 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Turtletotem said:
But it had to be done, you know?
No.
Quote:
"The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."
- General Eisenhower, Newsweek, 11/11/63
I'll take his word over any lay opinion.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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TNK
Pleasures of Africa



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante] 1
#22056593 - 08/07/15 03:39 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Agreed, the logic and reasoning behind the lack of a technical demonstration seems absurd. Even if there was need for a military demonstration, the logic behind targeting urban centers, very sad and a dark time in history for humanity.
-------------------- Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)
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trippinballs420
Samall Johnson



Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 11,903
Loc: CO
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: TNK]
#22058010 - 08/07/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheNatureKid said:

Agreed, the logic and reasoning behind the lack of a technical demonstration seems absurd. Even if there was need for a military demonstration, the logic behind targeting urban centers, very sad and a dark time in history for humanity.
they were targeting cities that were involved in the manufacturing of military supplies and weapons, these were strategic drops - hence the leaflets dropped
it was totally necessary. the japanese had awarded 2 american sailors medals for their help in the late 30s, if im not mistaken the sailors tied their medals one to each bomb before they were put on the planes or dropped or whatever kinda like a big 
those sneaky fuckers deserved everything they got.
-------------------- ModestMouse said: "Much love for all of the regs here that's all I got to say
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante] 2
#22058086 - 08/07/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Never again





And let us also remember that Japan has an ongoing nuclear crisis in Fukushima, which despite not being in the media much anymore, is a long long way from resolved and remains a massive problem.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: trippinballs420] 1
#22058140 - 08/07/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Its mostly about Europe, but has anyone seen the Dan Carlin podcast on WWI. It was fucking tramendous
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub] 1
#22058253 - 08/07/15 11:36 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Dan Carlin is my hero and I wish he was the president of the USA.
I think it was him who told me this crazy story:
there was one guy, actually truly in history, who got hit with one of the Nukes, survived, made his way to the other city just in time to get hit by the second nuke, and survived.
He literally was within the blast zone of BOTH the nukes that hit Japan, and survived both.
He is possibly both the most lucky and the most unlucky person in history.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,796
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Moonshoe]
#22058383 - 08/07/15 11:47 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you Moonshoe
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante]
#22058401 - 08/07/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante] 1
#22058803 - 08/07/15 01:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you 
I you
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Achuma
Aluminium Fedora



Registered: 11/22/09
Posts: 865
Loc: Smegmaguay
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#22058877 - 08/07/15 02:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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These nuclear attacks are pretty much just about the most horrible and strangely trippy events I have heard of. Well, the story of the atomic bomb is quite a bizarre thing, and the way it was used is completely fucked.
WWII altogether was some strange shit. I think it was possibly THE turning point between the world we know and the world that was known before mid-20th century. It's not a huge difference that there are now digital versions of all the new technology that began being present in the 1930's - 1940's. Truly the birth of the modern age.
Some important things coming out of WWII: -Widespread knowledge of genocide throughout the world, taught in history classes at age 12-14. boom. we have to think about that during puberty. (you might have to overthrow your gov't someday)
-development of nuclear technology (subsequently, the US holds the world at ransom, grabs resources and establishes new colonial locations, followed by cold war once nuclear technology spreads)
-LSD (effects discovered 2 years before "the bomb")
-Radar (which has also lead to radio telescopes)
-Computers, computer assisted cryptography
I might also add that while Meth wasn't invented during WWII, this was the first occasion where it was consumed en masse.
Human history is weird. Largely tales of subjugation and strife in a poor attempt to manage real estate with force.
Flowers
-------------------- Achuma's Psilocybe Extraction Pictorial
Pictured: crystalline extract derived from Psilocybe Cubensis. See link for detailed instructions, as well as a lengthy discussion on the properties of light.
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Konyap

Registered: 06/30/07
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Achuma]
#22058905 - 08/07/15 02:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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good ol' meth
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Achuma] 1
#22058933 - 08/07/15 02:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I sometimes think about what the world and human civilization would be like if world war 1 and 2 had never happened, and there had never been any world wars.
I feel like we would already have colonies on mars at the very least.
Its crazy how it is generally said that world war 1 directly caused world war 2, and world war 2 directly caused the cold war.
And World war 1 started due to an unbelievably unlikely coincidence where a serbian assassin got a sandwhich and by complete chance saw the Archduke outside the sandwhich shop just as the Archduke's car engine stalled, allowing him to assassinate him, which led directly to the war.

Its mind blowing. If he had gone somewhere else for a sandwhich, we might be living in a utopian paradise world right now, or at the very least a totally different world.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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trippinballs420
Samall Johnson



Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 11,903
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Moonshoe]
#22058951 - 08/07/15 02:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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wed probably NEED to migrate to mars or somewhere else because we're already raping our resources as it is and changing everything around.......imagine if none of those people had died in those wars, and had kids, those kids wouldve had kids, and by the time global warming and climate change was realized it would be wayyyy too late
-------------------- ModestMouse said: "Much love for all of the regs here that's all I got to say
"
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante]
#22058955 - 08/07/15 02:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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RIP
I would also like to say that we should also remember the German civilians lost during WW2 to firebombing and war in general. The lives lost in Germany were no less important than those lost in Japan, yet every year we remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki more than we remember places like Dresden.

Edited by nooneman (08/07/15 02:33 PM)
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Konyap]
#22058961 - 08/07/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konyap said: the us wasn't in ww1 
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante]
#22058996 - 08/07/15 02:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
Turtletotem said:
But it had to be done, you know?
No.
Yes. Note they didn't surrender after the first one. The fucking Japs were assholes. And yes I include their civilians. They were rah rah all the way.
Quote:
Quote:
"The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."
- General Eisenhower, Newsweek, 11/11/63
I'll take his word over any lay opinion.
On what terms? Let me point out that because they surrendered abjectly and completely and submitted to total US jurisdiction for a period of time they are an extremely prosperous nation now. West Germany is the same. In fact they were so prosperous that they were able to absorb the East German shitocracy.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: trippinballs420]
#22059015 - 08/07/15 02:46 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
trippinballs420 said: wed probably NEED to migrate to mars or somewhere else because we're already raping our resources as it is and changing everything around.......imagine if none of those people had died in those wars, and had kids, those kids wouldve had kids, and by the time global warming and climate change was realized it would be wayyyy too late
The wars were devastating to the environment, I am almost certain the environment would be much better off without those world wars.
I don't know for certain, on the one hand tons of people died and thus were not using up any more resources, but the wartime industry was so heavy and so much material was manufactured and destroyed, that I would imagine that the net impact on the environment from the wars was very negative.
Furthermore if people had focused all the time, money, energy, intelligence and resources that we used on war on solving environmental and other problems instead, we could likely have solved our environmental problems all together.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: nooneman]
#22059025 - 08/07/15 02:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: RIP
I would also like to say that we should also remember the German civilians lost during WW2 to firebombing and war in general. The lives lost in Germany were no less important than those lost in Japan, yet every year we remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki more than we remember places like Dresden.


thats cause people like to talk alot of shit and the hypocrisy is almost blinding.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: TNK]
#22059051 - 08/07/15 02:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheNatureKid said: They could have even only dropped one bomb, over either city with the same result. No real need to drop two of them.
Very sad. 
Fact not in evidence
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: nooneman]
#22059068 - 08/07/15 02:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: RIP
I would also like to say that we should also remember the German civilians lost during WW2 to firebombing and war in general. The lives lost in Germany were no less important than those lost in Japan, yet every year we remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki more than we remember places like Dresden.
and the ones in Poland and the ones in France and Belgium and England and China and the Phillipines and from the US. Tell me again what assholes started this?
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trippinballs420
Samall Johnson



Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 11,903
Loc: CO
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Moonshoe]
#22059085 - 08/07/15 03:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said:
Quote:
trippinballs420 said: wed probably NEED to migrate to mars or somewhere else because we're already raping our resources as it is and changing everything around.......imagine if none of those people had died in those wars, and had kids, those kids wouldve had kids, and by the time global warming and climate change was realized it would be wayyyy too late
The wars were devastating to the environment, I am almost certain the environment would be much better off without those world wars.
I don't know for certain, on the one hand tons of people died and thus were not using up any more resources, but the wartime industry was so heavy and so much material was manufactured and destroyed, that I would imagine that the net impact on the environment from the wars was very negative.
Furthermore if people had focused all the time, money, energy, intelligence and resources that we used on war on solving environmental and other problems instead, we could likely have solved our environmental problems all together.
i thought you were talking like just take out ww1&2 and vietnam all of the deaths and put them back into place in life - i hadnt considered the resources that were used in the war and the jobs it created back home.
its too bad people cant live in harmony - helping each other out. but i believe we've proved to ourselves over thousands of years we cant.....either that or now we're just too dumb to learn from past mistakes
im kind of a pessimist in most cases and this just reflects that tho
-------------------- ModestMouse said: "Much love for all of the regs here that's all I got to say
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#22059096 - 08/07/15 03:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by CHeifM4sterDiezL (08/07/15 03:05 PM)
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
Loc: Mitten
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: zappaisgod]
#22059166 - 08/07/15 03:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
nooneman said: RIP
I would also like to say that we should also remember the German civilians lost during WW2 to firebombing and war in general. The lives lost in Germany were no less important than those lost in Japan, yet every year we remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki more than we remember places like Dresden.
and the ones in Poland and the ones in France and Belgium and England and China and the Phillipines and from the US. Tell me again what assholes started this?
Let's blame the Belgians, no one likes them
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#22059172 - 08/07/15 03:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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They make good chocolate
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trippinballs420
Samall Johnson



Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 11,903
Loc: CO
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: zappaisgod]
#22059179 - 08/07/15 03:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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and beer
-------------------- ModestMouse said: "Much love for all of the regs here that's all I got to say
"
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: trippinballs420]
#22059190 - 08/07/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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True enough
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


Registered: 07/28/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: zappaisgod]
#22059191 - 08/07/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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chocolate they stole from africa
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


Registered: 07/28/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#22059195 - 08/07/15 03:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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yes they make nice wheat beers if ur into that kinda thing
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#22059202 - 08/07/15 03:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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No, not at all. You are making them look worse with their junk food and fields of inescapable mud
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trippinballs420
Samall Johnson



Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 11,903
Loc: CO
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#22059413 - 08/07/15 04:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
CHeifM4sterDiezL said: yes they make nice wheat beers if ur into that kinda thing
i am
-------------------- ModestMouse said: "Much love for all of the regs here that's all I got to say
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: trippinballs420]
#22059427 - 08/07/15 04:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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yeh most wheat beers i like r from new jersey go figure
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TNK
Pleasures of Africa



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: nooneman]
#22059456 - 08/07/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: RIP
I would also like to say that we should also remember the German civilians lost during WW2 to firebombing and war in general. The lives lost in Germany were no less important than those lost in Japan, yet every year we remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki more than we remember places like Dresden.


I guess it probably has something to do with Nazi's.
-------------------- Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)
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trippinballs420
Samall Johnson



Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 11,903
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#22059538 - 08/07/15 04:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
CHeifM4sterDiezL said: yeh most wheat beers i like r from new jersey go figure 
thats pretty surprising unless you live like in jersey 
and yeah no one gives a fuck about how fucked up germany got because theres the hitler argument. as soon as anyone says anything about innocent germans you can say "hitler started the war"
and then you can point to the fact that the largest elected party in the German Reichstag, leading to his appointment as chancellor in 1933, was the NAZI party
-------------------- ModestMouse said: "Much love for all of the regs here that's all I got to say
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: trippinballs420]
#22059541 - 08/07/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Oh yeah, the people were guilty. Just like the Jap people were.
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trippinballs420
Samall Johnson



Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 11,903
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: zappaisgod]
#22059581 - 08/07/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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fuck it all the japs were guilty too...if your population that far outweighs the politicians, agree on something and help work toward that goal and that goal is to fuck up the USA then yes. they were guilty too.
-------------------- ModestMouse said: "Much love for all of the regs here that's all I got to say
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: trippinballs420]
#22059648 - 08/07/15 05:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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um no dewd it was like a certain group of powerful progressive free thinking people were trying to move towars a way of organizing world democracy in a way that protected humanwelfare after ww1 and then fuckng crazy people tryed to pull some dark ages fucking shit show in basically the first modern war imean like someone was gonna get the bomb im mean we all know how close the germans came fucking hell were lucky most the smart people gtfo out of europe when the gettin was good shit you dont think they thought about it i mean come on they knew exactly what they were doing people were fucking done.
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: zappaisgod]
#22059672 - 08/07/15 05:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
nooneman said: RIP
I would also like to say that we should also remember the German civilians lost during WW2 to firebombing and war in general. The lives lost in Germany were no less important than those lost in Japan, yet every year we remember Hiroshima and Nagasaki more than we remember places like Dresden.
and the ones in Poland and the ones in France and Belgium and England and China and the Phillipines and from the US. Tell me again what assholes started this?
I meant we should mourn all the civilians lost in WW2. Not just those from Germany or Japan. I said Germany because people so rarely think about the German civilians lost in WW2.
Quote:
TheNatureKid said: I guess it probably has something to do with Nazi's. 
The Japanese committed atrocities in WW2 that were just as bad or worse than the Nazis.
Edited by nooneman (08/07/15 05:33 PM)
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trippinballs420
Samall Johnson



Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 11,903
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#22059724 - 08/07/15 05:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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yeah someone was gettin the D
it was all about who died out first with the least amount of US human loss
-------------------- ModestMouse said: "Much love for all of the regs here that's all I got to say
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TNK
Pleasures of Africa



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: nooneman]
#22059733 - 08/07/15 05:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheNatureKid said: I guess it probably has something to do with Nazi's. 
The Japanese committed atrocities in WW2 that were just as bad or worse than the Nazis.
Yeah, but the propaganda campaign against the Nazi Party was much more effective than the one against Imperial Japan.
-------------------- Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)
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Konyap

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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: TNK]
#22059810 - 08/07/15 05:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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death
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Konyap]
#22059909 - 08/07/15 06:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Tere are no civilians in total war
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: zappaisgod]
#22060009 - 08/07/15 06:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's because they are dead, Zappa.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#22060054 - 08/07/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Not all of them died. And they were participants. Did every soldier get killed? Think better
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: zappaisgod]
#22061680 - 08/08/15 07:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you go to Japan now, I just assume there is a crater where the man who makes all the anime lives. A radiation mutant of course.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: trippinballs420]
#22061774 - 08/08/15 08:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
“Read this carefully as it may save your life or the life of a relative or friend. In the next few days, some or all of the cities named on the reverse side will be destroyed by American bombs. These cities contain military installations and workshops or factories which produce military goods. We are determined to destroy all of the tools of the military clique which they are using to prolong this useless war. But, unfortunately, bombs have no eyes. So, in accordance with America’s humanitarian policies, the American Air Force, which does not wish to injure innocent people, now gives you warning to evacuate the cities named and save your lives. America is not fighting the Japanese people but is fighting the military clique which has enslaved the Japanese people. The peace which America will bring will free the people from the oppression of the military clique and mean the emergence of a new and better Japan. You can restore peace by demanding new and good leaders who will end the war. We cannot promise that only these cities will be among those attacked but some or all of them will be, so heed this warning and evacuate these cities immediately.”
sucks to be illiterate and stupid
stop being so gung-ho.
you might leave if you had gotten this message, but if you'd think even for a moment (which you avoided, because hey, why bother, this doesn't concern you) you'd realize that a whole city cannot just "pack up and leave" in a matter of days. take into account that some people may have fled but most were busy with their daily family lives trying to make enough money to eat, you silly person, and they couldn't afford to go; and also lets not forget (you embossed carbuncle) that they weren't aware of the power (or for that matter, the instance of...) the atomic bomb, they knew only firebombing and clusterbombing and various other bombings that for all intents and purposes were not so terrifying. they knew not the extent that the Americans were willing to go; only the extent of their own government they knew, and they knew that it was bad, so give credit were it's due and stop assuming that because the Americans sent that lovely note...(which i admit is the least they could have done, and they did so spiritedly with the best of intentions, because we're only human and they of course did not want to see innocents hurt, just as much as your ordinary Japanese citizen)...that lovely note with it's intimacy, nicely juxtaposed with death and destruction, that the Japanese were lazy or stupid.
that's just asinine.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Tere are no civilians in total war
the citizens could not stop their government and troops. if they could have, they would have.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Oh yeah, the people were guilty. Just like the Jap people were.
no, Zappa, no. maybe in your sick twisted mind (lol), where people summed up by the footnotes of history, but no, not ALL Japanese were guilty. that's just asinine.
were all American's guilty of the atrocity's of manifest destiny or the violent racism of the early 30's, 40's, ect...?
no.
Edited by akira_akuma (08/08/15 08:16 AM)
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ThatKidWithTheFace
R.I.P. ZIG R.I.P. Sloth


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: akira_akuma]
#22061786 - 08/08/15 08:15 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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They were too busy? Too busy to get out of the way of a bomb?
Sounds like they deserved it
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
#22061790 - 08/08/15 08:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ThatKidWithTheFace said: They were too busy? Too busy to get out of the way of a bomb?
Sounds like they deserved it
if you had the imminent threat of a nuclear bomb over your shoulders, and your city in which you reside all tried to leave, the roads would become a war zone in and of itself, and there would be no way out, the cars would fill the streets and you'd be stuck.
i insist that you start using that head meat of your's before responding to me in this thread.
stop being unwarrantedly arrogant to presume to think you know what you're talking about.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante]
#22061799 - 08/08/15 08:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
Turtletotem said:
But it had to be done, you know?
No.
Quote:
"The Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."
- General Eisenhower, Newsweek, 11/11/63
I'll take his word over any lay opinion.
Oh
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Turtletotem]
#22061821 - 08/08/15 08:31 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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the atomic bomb was America's way of saying "never again will you fuck with us, or else" to the world.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: TNK]
#22061846 - 08/08/15 08:41 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
TheNatureKid said: Very sad, very slalom.
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TNK
Pleasures of Africa



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22061854 - 08/08/15 08:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- Edited by TNK (02/22/22 22:22 PM)
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JustForToday
New Life, New Beginnings


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: TNK]
#22062047 - 08/08/15 09:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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So sad this was.. It's a shame violence has to get so great before people get the message.
Japanese would not surrender. Couldn't invade because the Japanese had over a few million guarding. And it's been told when Harry Truman gave the okay to drop the bomb, he didn't sleep a wink. He said it was by far the hardest decision he ever had to make as president. I almost kind of wonder what would have happened had we not had J. Robert Oppenheimer who created the atom bomb.. Maybe we would have no nuclear weapons today.
-------------------- Hey Shae, Are you still doing that hand thing? I heard you was doing that hand thing today. Oh God what is that?!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: JustForToday] 1
#22062146 - 08/08/15 10:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That was 70 years ago. There is no way that even if we hadn't made a push that somebody wouldn't have made one by now.
To tell you the truth I think they have been a force for peace. Without MAD there very well might have been WW3
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: JustForToday]
#22062223 - 08/08/15 10:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
JustForToday said: So sad this was.. It's a shame violence has to get so great before people get the message.
Japanese would not surrender. Couldn't invade because the Japanese had over a few million guarding. And it's been told when Harry Truman gave the okay to drop the bomb, he didn't sleep a wink. He said it was by far the hardest decision he ever had to make as president. I almost kind of wonder what would have happened had we not had J. Robert Oppenheimer who created the atom bomb.. Maybe we would have no nuclear weapons today.
Yeah I always think if we devoted all the time and resources that we put into warfare into welfare then we could win wars just by having people like and respect America as a country that stood for shared humanist values, but as it stands when people criticize America for being hypocritical I don't feel like we have a leg to stand on in refuting that.
There's just no benefit in empowering the masses for the people in power. I'm not sure we'll ever see leaders who willingly hand over power to the people. Even the few who try are caught up in a web of manipulation and deceit.
I'm glad that Japan has been able to recover and can respect the ways which they have resisted outsiders who seek control of their state, but on the other hand I guess I'm glad it was us who had the bombs when it came down to it and not them, because I think the same freedom and progressive spirit that allowed America to develop such technology is also what allows us to realize how bad it can be.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,796
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: moonrockmushy]
#22062259 - 08/08/15 11:09 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The scientists of the Manhattan Project petitioned the President NOT to use the atomic bombs. President Truman disregarded this.
They weren't alone in their disapproval:
Quote:
~~~DWIGHT EISENHOWER
"...in [July] 1945... Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. ...the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.
"During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..."
- Dwight Eisenhower, Mandate For Change, pg. 380
In a Newsweek interview, Eisenhower again recalled the meeting with Stimson:
"...the Japanese were ready to surrender and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing."
- Ike on Ike, Newsweek, 11/11/63
~~~ADMIRAL WILLIAM D. LEAHY (Chief of Staff to Presidents Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman)
"It is my opinion that the use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender because of the effective sea blockade and the successful bombing with conventional weapons.
"The lethal possibilities of atomic warfare in the future are frightening. My own feeling was that in being the first to use it, we had adopted an ethical standard common to the barbarians of the Dark Ages. I was not taught to make war in that fashion, and wars cannot be won by destroying women and children."
- William Leahy, I Was There, pg. 441.
~~~HERBERT HOOVER
On May 28, 1945, Hoover visited President Truman and suggested a way to end the Pacific war quickly: "I am convinced that if you, as President, will make a shortwave broadcast to the people of Japan - tell them they can have their Emperor if they surrender, that it will not mean unconditional surrender except for the militarists - you'll get a peace in Japan - you'll have both wars over."
Richard Norton Smith, An Uncommon Man: The Triumph of Herbert Hoover, pg. 347.
On August 8, 1945, after the atomic bombing of Hiroshima, Hoover wrote to Army and Navy Journal publisher Colonel John Callan O'Laughlin, "The use of the atomic bomb, with its indiscriminate killing of women and children, revolts my soul."
quoted from Gar Alperovitz, The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb, pg. 635.
"...the Japanese were prepared to negotiate all the way from February 1945...up to and before the time the atomic bombs were dropped; ...if such leads had been followed up, there would have been no occasion to drop the [atomic] bombs."
- quoted by Barton Bernstein in Philip Nobile, ed., Judgment at the Smithsonian, pg. 142
Hoover biographer Richard Norton Smith has written: "Use of the bomb had besmirched America's reputation, he [Hoover] told friends. It ought to have been described in graphic terms before being flung out into the sky over Japan."
Richard Norton Smith, An Uncommon Man: The Triumph of Herbert Hoover, pg. 349-350.
In early May of 1946 Hoover met with General Douglas MacArthur. Hoover recorded in his diary, "I told MacArthur of my memorandum of mid-May 1945 to Truman, that peace could be had with Japan by which our major objectives would be accomplished. MacArthur said that was correct and that we would have avoided all of the losses, the Atomic bomb, and the entry of Russia into Manchuria."
Gar Alperovitz, The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb, pg. 350-351.
~~~GENERAL DOUGLAS MacARTHUR
MacArthur biographer William Manchester has described MacArthur's reaction to the issuance by the Allies of the Potsdam Proclamation to Japan: "...the Potsdam declaration in July, demand[ed] that Japan surrender unconditionally or face 'prompt and utter destruction.' MacArthur was appalled. He knew that the Japanese would never renounce their emperor, and that without him an orderly transition to peace would be impossible anyhow, because his people would never submit to Allied occupation unless he ordered it. Ironically, when the surrender did come, it was conditional, and the condition was a continuation of the imperial reign. Had the General's advice been followed, the resort to atomic weapons at Hiroshima and Nagasaki might have been unnecessary."
William Manchester, American Caesar: Douglas MacArthur 1880-1964, pg. 512.
Norman Cousins was a consultant to General MacArthur during the American occupation of Japan. Cousins writes of his conversations with MacArthur, "MacArthur's views about the decision to drop the atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were starkly different from what the general public supposed." He continues, "When I asked General MacArthur about the decision to drop the bomb, I was surprised to learn he had not even been consulted. What, I asked, would his advice have been? He replied that he saw no military justification for the dropping of the bomb. The war might have ended weeks earlier, he said, if the United States had agreed, as it later did anyway, to the retention of the institution of the emperor."
Norman Cousins, The Pathology of Power, pg. 65, 70-71.
~~~JOSEPH GREW (Under Sec. of State)
In a February 12, 1947 letter to Henry Stimson (Sec. of War during WWII), Grew responded to the defense of the atomic bombings Stimson had made in a February 1947 Harpers magazine article:
"...in the light of available evidence I myself and others felt that if such a categorical statement about the [retention of the] dynasty had been issued in May, 1945, the surrender-minded elements in the [Japanese] Government might well have been afforded by such a statement a valid reason and the necessary strength to come to an early clearcut decision.
"If surrender could have been brought about in May, 1945, or even in June or July, before the entrance of Soviet Russia into the [Pacific] war and the use of the atomic bomb, the world would have been the gainer."
Grew quoted in Barton Bernstein, ed.,The Atomic Bomb, pg. 29-32.
~~~JOHN McCLOY (Assistant Sec. of War)
"I have always felt that if, in our ultimatum to the Japanese government issued from Potsdam [in July 1945], we had referred to the retention of the emperor as a constitutional monarch and had made some reference to the reasonable accessibility of raw materials to the future Japanese government, it would have been accepted. Indeed, I believe that even in the form it was delivered, there was some disposition on the part of the Japanese to give it favorable consideration. When the war was over I arrived at this conclusion after talking with a number of Japanese officials who had been closely associated with the decision of the then Japanese government, to reject the ultimatum, as it was presented. I believe we missed the opportunity of effecting a Japanese surrender, completely satisfactory to us, without the necessity of dropping the bombs."
McCloy quoted in James Reston, Deadline, pg. 500.
~~~RALPH BARD (Under Sec. of the Navy)
On June 28, 1945, a memorandum written by Bard the previous day was given to Sec. of War Henry Stimson. It stated, in part:
"Following the three-power [July 1945 Potsdam] conference emissaries from this country could contact representatives from Japan somewhere on the China Coast and make representations with regard to Russia's position [they were about to declare war on Japan] and at the same time give them some information regarding the proposed use of atomic power, together with whatever assurances the President might care to make with regard to the [retention of the] Emperor of Japan and the treatment of the Japanese nation following unconditional surrender. It seems quite possible to me that this presents the opportunity which the Japanese are looking for.
"I don't see that we have anything in particular to lose in following such a program." He concluded the memorandum by noting, "The only way to find out is to try it out."
Memorandum on the Use of S-1 Bomb, Manhattan Engineer District Records, Harrison-Bundy files, folder # 77, National Archives (also contained in: Martin Sherwin, A World Destroyed, 1987 edition, pg. 307-308).
Later Bard related, "...it definitely seemed to me that the Japanese were becoming weaker and weaker. They were surrounded by the Navy. They couldn't get any imports and they couldn't export anything. Naturally, as time went on and the war developed in our favor it was quite logical to hope and expect that with the proper kind of a warning the Japanese would then be in a position to make peace, which would have made it unnecessary for us to drop the bomb and have had to bring Russia in...".
quoted in Len Giovannitti and Fred Freed, The Decision To Drop the Bomb, pg. 144-145, 324.
Bard also asserted, "I think that the Japanese were ready for peace, and they already had approached the Russians and, I think, the Swiss. And that suggestion of [giving] a warning [of the atomic bomb] was a face-saving proposition for them, and one that they could have readily accepted." He continued, "In my opinion, the Japanese war was really won before we ever used the atom bomb. Thus, it wouldn't have been necessary for us to disclose our nuclear position and stimulate the Russians to develop the same thing much more rapidly than they would have if we had not dropped the bomb."
War Was Really Won Before We Used A-Bomb, U.S. News and World Report, 8/15/60, pg. 73-75.
~~~LEWIS STRAUSS (Special Assistant to the Sec. of the Navy)
Strauss recalled a recommendation he gave to Sec. of the Navy James Forrestal before the atomic bombing of Hiroshima:
"I proposed to Secretary Forrestal that the weapon should be demonstrated before it was used. Primarily it was because it was clear to a number of people, myself among them, that the war was very nearly over. The Japanese were nearly ready to capitulate... My proposal to the Secretary was that the weapon should be demonstrated over some area accessible to Japanese observers and where its effects would be dramatic. I remember suggesting that a satisfactory place for such a demonstration would be a large forest of cryptomeria trees not far from Tokyo. The cryptomeria tree is the Japanese version of our redwood... I anticipated that a bomb detonated at a suitable height above such a forest... would lay the trees out in windrows from the center of the explosion in all directions as though they were matchsticks, and, of course, set them afire in the center. It seemed to me that a demonstration of this sort would prove to the Japanese that we could destroy any of their cities at will... Secretary Forrestal agreed wholeheartedly with the recommendation..."
Strauss added, "It seemed to me that such a weapon was not necessary to bring the war to a successful conclusion, that once used it would find its way into the armaments of the world...".
quoted in Len Giovannitti and Fred Freed, The Decision To Drop the Bomb, pg. 145, 325.
~~~PAUL NITZE (Vice Chairman, U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey)
In 1950 Nitze would recommend a massive military buildup, and in the 1980s he was an arms control negotiator in the Reagan administration. In July of 1945 he was assigned the task of writing a strategy for the air attack on Japan. Nitze later wrote:
"The plan I devised was essentially this: Japan was already isolated from the standpoint of ocean shipping. The only remaining means of transportation were the rail network and intercoastal shipping, though our submarines and mines were rapidly eliminating the latter as well. A concentrated air attack on the essential lines of transportation, including railroads and (through the use of the earliest accurately targetable glide bombs, then emerging from development) the Kammon tunnels which connected Honshu with Kyushu, would isolate the Japanese home islands from one another and fragment the enemy's base of operations. I believed that interdiction of the lines of transportation would be sufficiently effective so that additional bombing of urban industrial areas would not be necessary.
"While I was working on the new plan of air attack... concluded that even without the atomic bomb, Japan was likely to surrender in a matter of months. My own view was that Japan would capitulate by November 1945."
Paul Nitze, From Hiroshima to Glasnost, pg. 36-37 (my emphasis)
The U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey group, assigned by President Truman to study the air attacks on Japan, produced a report in July of 1946 that was primarily written by Nitze and reflected his reasoning:
"Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated."
quoted in Barton Bernstein, The Atomic Bomb, pg. 52-56.
In his memoir, written in 1989, Nitze repeated,
"Even without the attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, it seemed highly unlikely, given what we found to have been the mood of the Japanese government, that a U.S. invasion of the islands [scheduled for November 1, 1945] would have been necessary."
Paul Nitze, From Hiroshima to Glasnost, pg. 44-45.
~~~ALBERT EINSTEIN
Einstein was not directly involved in the Manhattan Project (which developed the atomic bomb). In 1905, as part of his Special Theory of Relativity, he made the intriguing point that a relatively large amount of energy was contained in and could be released from a relatively small amount of matter. This became best known by the equation E=mc2. The atomic bomb was not based upon this theory but clearly illustrated it.
In 1939 Einstein signed a letter to President Roosevelt that was drafted by the scientist Leo Szilard. Received by FDR in October of that year, the letter from Einstein called for and sparked the beginning of U.S. government support for a program to build an atomic bomb, lest the Nazis build one first.
Einstein did not speak publicly on the atomic bombing of Japan until a year afterward. A short article on the front page of the New York Times contained his view:
"Prof. Albert Einstein... said that he was sure that President Roosevelt would have forbidden the atomic bombing of Hiroshima had he been alive and that it was probably carried out to end the Pacific war before Russia could participate."
Einstein Deplores Use of Atom Bomb, New York Times, 8/19/46, pg. 1.
Regarding the 1939 letter to Roosevelt, his biographer, Ronald Clark, has noted:
"As far as his own life was concerned, one thing seemed quite clear. 'I made one great mistake in my life,' he said to Linus Pauling, who spent an hour with him on the morning of November 11, 1954, '...when I signed the letter to President Roosevelt recommending that atom bombs be made; but there was some justification - the danger that the Germans would make them.'".
Ronald Clark, Einstein: The Life and Times, pg. 620.
~~~LEO SZILARD (The first scientist to conceive of how an atomic bomb might be made - 1933)
For many scientists, one motivation for developing the atomic bomb was to make sure Germany, well known for its scientific capabilities, did not get it first. This was true for Szilard, a Manhattan Project scientist.
"In the spring of '45 it was clear that the war against Germany would soon end, and so I began to ask myself, 'What is the purpose of continuing the development of the bomb, and how would the bomb be used if the war with Japan has not ended by the time we have the first bombs?".
Szilard quoted in Spencer Weart and Gertrud Weiss Szilard, ed., Leo Szilard: His Version of the Facts, pg. 181.
After Germany surrendered, Szilard attempted to meet with President Truman. Instead, he was given an appointment with Truman's Sec. of State to be, James Byrnes. In that meeting of May 28, 1945, Szilard told Byrnes that the atomic bomb should not be used on Japan. Szilard recommended, instead, coming to an international agreement on the control of atomic weapons before shocking other nations by their use:
"I thought that it would be a mistake to disclose the existence of the bomb to the world before the government had made up its mind about how to handle the situation after the war. Using the bomb certainly would disclose that the bomb existed." According to Szilard, Byrnes was not interested in international control: "Byrnes... was concerned about Russia's postwar behavior. Russian troops had moved into Hungary and Rumania, and Byrnes thought it would be very difficult to persuade Russia to withdraw her troops from these countries, that Russia might be more manageable if impressed by American military might, and that a demonstration of the bomb might impress Russia." Szilard could see that he wasn't getting though to Byrnes; "I was concerned at this point that by demonstrating the bomb and using it in the war against Japan, we might start an atomic arms race between America and Russia which might end with the destruction of both countries.".
Szilard quoted in Spencer Weart and Gertrud Weiss Szilard, ed., Leo Szilard: His Version of the Facts, pg. 184.
Two days later, Szilard met with J. Robert Oppenheimer, the head scientist in the Manhattan Project. "I told Oppenheimer that I thought it would be a very serious mistake to use the bomb against the cities of Japan. Oppenheimer didn't share my view." "'Well, said Oppenheimer, 'don't you think that if we tell the Russians what we intend to do and then use the bomb in Japan, the Russians will understand it?'. 'They'll understand it only too well,' Szilard replied, no doubt with Byrnes's intentions in mind."
Szilard quoted in Spencer Weart and Gertrud Weiss Szilard, ed., Leo Szilard: His Version of the Facts, pg. 185; also William Lanouette, Genius In the Shadows: A Biography of Leo Szilard, pg. 266-267.
~~~THE FRANCK REPORT: POLITICAL AND SOCIAL PROBLEMS
The race for the atomic bomb ended with the May 1945 surrender of Germany, the only other power capable of creating an atomic bomb in the near future. This led some Manhattan Project scientists in Chicago to become among the first to consider the long-term consequences of using the atomic bomb against Japan in World War II. Their report came to be known as the Franck Report, and included major contributions from Leo Szilard (referred to above). Although an attempt was made to give the report to Sec. of War Henry Stimson, it is unclear as to whether he ever received it.
International control of nuclear weapons for the prevention of a larger nuclear war was the report's primary concern:
"If we consider international agreement on total prevention of nuclear warfare as the paramount objective, and believe that it can be achieved, this kind of introduction of atomic weapons [on Japan] to the world may easily destroy all our chances of success. Russia... will be deeply shocked. It will be very difficult to persuade the world that a nation which was capable of secretly preparing and suddenly releasing a weapon, as indiscriminate as the rocket bomb and a thousand times more destructive, is to be trusted in its proclaimed desire of having such weapons abolished by international agreement.".
The Franck Committee, which could not know that the Japanese government would approach Russia in July to try to end the war, compared the short-term possible saving of lives by using the bomb on Japan with the long-term possible massive loss of lives in a nuclear war:
"...looking forward to an international agreement on prevention of nuclear warfare - the military advantages and the saving of American lives, achieved by the sudden use of atomic bombs against Japan, may be outweighed by the ensuing loss of confidence and wave of horror and repulsion, sweeping over the rest of the world...".
The report questioned the ability of destroying Japanese cities with atomic bombs to bring surrender when destroying Japanese cities with conventional bombs had not done so. It recommended a demonstration of the atomic bomb for Japan in an unpopulated area. Facing the long-term consequences with Russia, the report stated prophetically:
"If no international agreement is concluded immediately after the first demonstration, this will mean a flying start of an unlimited armaments race.".
The report pointed out that the United States, with its highly concentrated urban areas, would become a prime target for nuclear weapons and concluded:
"We believe that these considerations make the use of nuclear bombs for an early, unannounced attack against Japan inadvisable. If the United States would be the first to release this new means of indiscriminate destruction upon mankind, she would sacrifice public support throughout the world, precipitate the race of armaments, and prejudice the possibility of reaching an international agreement on the future control of such weapons.".
Political and Social Problems, Manhattan Engineer District Records, Harrison-Bundy files, folder # 76, National Archives (also contained in: Martin Sherwin, A World Destroyed, 1987 edition, pg. 323-333).
~~~ELLIS ZACHARIAS (Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence)
Based on a series of intelligence reports received in late 1944, Zacharias, long a student of Japan's people and culture, believed the Japan would soon be ripe for surrender if the proper approach were taken. For him, that approach was not as simple as bludgeoning Japanese cities:
"...while Allied leaders were immediately inclined to support all innovations however bold and novel in the strictly military sphere, they frowned upon similar innovations in the sphere of diplomatic and psychological warfare."
Ellis Zacharias, The A-Bomb Was Not Needed, United Nations World, Aug. 1949, pg. 29.
Zacharias saw that there were diplomatic and religious (the status of the Emperor) elements that blocked the doves in Japan's government from making their move:
"What prevented them from suing for peace or from bringing their plot into the open was their uncertainty on two scores. First, they wanted to know the meaning of unconditional surrender and the fate we planned for Japan after defeat. Second, they tried to obtain from us assurances that the Emperor could remain on the throne after surrender."
Ellis Zacharias, Eighteen Words That Bagged Japan, Saturday Evening Post, 11/17/45, pg. 17.
To resolve these issues, Zacharias developed several plans for secret negotiations with Japanese representatives; all were rejected by the U.S. government. Instead, a series of psychological warfare radio broadcasts by Zacharias was later approved. In the July 21, 1945 broadcast, Zacharias made an offer to Japan that stirred controversy in the U.S.: a surrender based on the Atlantic Charter. On July 25th, the U.S. intercepted a secret transmission from Japan's Foreign Minister (Togo) to their Ambassador to Moscow (Sato), who was trying to set up a meeting with the Soviets to negotiate an end to the war. The message referred to the Zacharias broadcast and stated:
"...special attention should be paid to the fact that at this time the United States referred to the Atlantic Charter. As for Japan, it is impossible to accept unconditional surrender under any circumstances, but we should like to communicate to the other party through appropriate channels that we have no objection to a peace based on the Atlantic Charter."
U.S. Dept. of State, Foreign Relations of the United States: Conference of Berlin (Potsdam) 1945, vol. 2, pg. 1260-1261.
But on July 26th, the U.S., Great Britain, and China publicly issued the Potsdam Proclamation demanding "unconditional surrender" from Japan. Zacharias later commented on the favorable Japanese response to his broadcast:
"But though we gained a victory, it was soon to be canceled out by the Potsdam Declaration and the way it was handled.
"Instead of being a diplomatic instrument, transmitted through regular diplomatic channels and giving the Japanese a chance to answer, it was put on the radio as a propaganda instrument pure and simple. The whole maneuver, in fact, completely disregarded all essential psychological factors dealing with Japan."
Zacharias continued, "The Potsdam Declaration, in short, wrecked everything we had been working for to prevent further bloodshed...
"Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia.
"Washington decided that Japan had been given its chance and now it was time to use the A-bomb.
"I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds."
Ellis Zacharias, How We Bungled the Japanese Surrender, Look, 6/6/50, pg. 19-21.
~~~GENERAL CARL "TOOEY" SPAATZ (In charge of Air Force operations in the Pacific)
General Spaatz was the person who received the order for the Air Force to "deliver its first special bomb as soon as weather will permit visual bombing after about 3 August 1945..."(Leslie Groves, Now It Can Be Told, pg. 308). In a 1964 interview, Spaatz explained:
"The dropping of the atomic bomb was done by a military man under military orders. We're supposed to carry out orders and not question them."
In the same interview, Spaatz referred to the Japanese military's plan to get better peace terms, and he gave an alternative to the atomic bombings:
"If we were to go ahead with the plans for a conventional invasion with ground and naval forces, I believe the Japanese thought that they could inflict very heavy casualties on us and possibly as a result get better surrender terms. On the other hand if they knew or were told that no invasion would take place [and] that bombing would continue until the surrender, why I think the surrender would have taken place just about the same time." (Herbert Feis Papers, Box 103, N.B.C. Interviews, Carl Spaatz interview by Len Giovannitti, Library of Congress).
~~~BRIGADIER GENERAL CARTER CLARKE (The military intelligence officer in charge of preparing intercepted Japanese cables - the MAGIC summaries - for Truman and his advisors)
"...when we didn't need to do it, and we knew we didn't need to do it, and they knew that we knew we didn't need to do it, we used them as an experiment for two atomic bombs."
Quoted in Gar Alperovitz, The Decision To Use the Atomic Bomb, pg. 359.
I regret to bring this into this thread but so far we had it defiled by page after page of apologists who claim that it in fact was justified. You know, you can justify any position, that in itself doesn't mean its OK.
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante]
#22062279 - 08/08/15 11:19 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hm, this is very different from what we where taught at school, I wonder why.. I mean, war is war, it's just one of the many horrors and atrocities of that conflict (although a very disturbing one... but Japan's own atrocities are a lot more disturbing to me.)
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Asante
Mage


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Turtletotem]
#22062309 - 08/08/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well there's the fact that America, oh, firebombed the shit out of 67 big Japanese cities and they found it hard to find two pristine cities to drop their nuclear bombs on. Then there was the use of napalm and flame throwers, they loved fire.
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Edited by Asante (08/08/15 11:30 AM)
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante]
#22062372 - 08/08/15 11:49 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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and yet the emperor and his court refused to surrender even after the war was irrevocably lost and even planned for a ground invasion in order to hold out for better terms. people were afraid japan was going to fight tooth n nail to the last man like they had done throughout the enitre war. after germany had already surrendered no one wanted to see anymore more fighting.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#22062381 - 08/08/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
CHeifM4sterDiezL said: and yet the emperor and his court refused to surrender even after the war was irrevocably lost and even planned for a ground invasion in order to hold out for better terms. people were afraid japan was going to fight tooth n nail to the last man like they had done throughout the enitre war. after germany had already surrendered no one wanted to see anymore more fighting.
Some would argue that what you're doing there is revisionism. In fact, they do.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#22062383 - 08/08/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Every single death due to nuclear weapons can be directly attributed to the emperor of Japan and his advisers and military people. The allies firebombed Dresden into oblivion without using a nuke and every one of those deaths is on Germany.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: zappaisgod]
#22062390 - 08/08/15 11:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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They still didn't surrender after the first one. Tough shit for them. Idiots.
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: zappaisgod]
#22062404 - 08/08/15 11:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The Japanese don't miss work for anything.
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Asante
Mage


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#22062440 - 08/08/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thats the great thing about being the victor, you get to write history. Firebombing Dresden and Hanover, and 67 Japanese cities most notably the atrocious firebombing of Tokyo most certainly are war crimes.
So were the doodlebugs of course but the Axis were, you know, evil. The Good Guys aren't supposed to employ the same tactics.
But somehow the emphasis shifted from bombing military targets to bombing population centers.
And your "total war" argument, that's Dr Goebbels' soundbyte if you recall:
The Allies were to stop this extremism of "total war", not take it to a new level.
Theres nothing more "total war" in all of the history of warfare than was committed, 70 years ago, the day before yesterday and tomorrow.
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akira_akuma
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#22062441 - 08/08/15 12:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: They still didn't surrender after the first one. Tough shit for them. Idiots.
though shit for their people, whom had no say in the matter.
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: akira_akuma]
#22062464 - 08/08/15 12:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I really think people whine about this firebombing too much. These wars were hell, and many places ceased to exist because of it. What did they expect?
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JustForToday
New Life, New Beginnings


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#22062470 - 08/08/15 12:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Let's not forget about pearl harbor.. We wouldn't even be in WW2 had it not been for that attack.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante]
#22062475 - 08/08/15 12:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: Thats the great thing about being the victor, you get to write history. Firebombing Dresden and Hanover, and 67 Japanese cities most notably the atrocious firebombing of Tokyo most certainly are war crimes.
So were the doodlebugs of course but the Axis were, you know, evil. The Good Guys aren't supposed to employ the same tactics.
But somehow the emphasis shifted from bombing military targets to bombing population centers.
And your "total war" argument, that's Dr Goebbels' soundbyte if you recall:
The Allies were to stop this extremism of "total war", not take it to a new level.
Theres nothing more "total war" in all of the history of warfare than was committed, 70 years ago, the day before yesterday and tomorrow.
War crimes? Is that a joke? Japan and Germany deserved every motherfucking bit of destruction they got. They started that shit, were fucking scumbags and their populace was fully supportive. Well, people, maybe you should think twice before you support that shit.
I would also point out that because they were completely defeated they are now productive peaceful members of the world community. Half assed policies perpetuate conflict. They do not end it.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante]
#22062480 - 08/08/15 12:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: Thats the great thing about being the victor, you get to write history. Firebombing Dresden and Hanover, and 67 Japanese cities most notably the atrocious firebombing of Tokyo most certainly are war crimes.
So were the doodlebugs of course but the Axis were, you know, evil. The Good Guys aren't supposed to employ the same tactics.
But somehow the emphasis shifted from bombing military targets to bombing population centers.
And your "total war" argument, that's Dr Goebbels' soundbyte if you recall:
The Allies were to stop this extremism of "total war", not take it to a new level.
Theres nothing more "total war" in all of the history of warfare than was committed, 70 years ago, the day before yesterday and tomorrow.
yeh no you are the revisionist. In what way was the bombing of those cities a war crime? please tell me.
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specialpeopleclub



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: JustForToday]
#22062484 - 08/08/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I heard we were starving them for metal or something before that. I don't know, it wasn't all pretty bad. They ducked up China. It amazes me how bad China always seems to loose
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#22062485 - 08/08/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: I really think people whine about this firebombing too much. These wars were hell, and many places ceased to exist because of it. What did they expect?
they didn't expect anything worse. the atom bomb must have been like magic. "they couldn't possibly make that happen again...."
*weeeeooooooooooooooooopllaaar!!!!!*
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trippinballs420
Samall Johnson



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: akira_akuma]
#22062504 - 08/08/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i never said they were lazy, ijust said they were illiterate or stupid to not heed the warning....but i get what youre saying the gov basically hung their people out to dry and left them in the dark on just how bad it could be while they refused to surrender
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: trippinballs420]
#22062847 - 08/08/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you have even a rudimentary understanding of japanese culture than it becomes alot easier to understand there attitudes toward surrenders https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_prisoners_of_war_in_World_War_II#Japanese_attitudes_to_surrender
here's an interesting article about the decision to surrender if you dont believe im some kinda revisionist or whatever http://japanfocus.org/-Herbert_P_-Bix/1787/article.html
Edited by CHeifM4sterDiezL (08/08/15 02:08 PM)
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ChinChiller



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante] 1
#22062864 - 08/08/15 02:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: Well there's the fact that America, oh, firebombed the shit out of 67 big Japanese cities and they found it hard to find two pristine cities to drop their nuclear bombs on. Then there was the use of napalm and flame throwers, they loved fire.
One word: nanking. They had it coming.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22062868 - 08/08/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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JustForToday
New Life, New Beginnings


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22062916 - 08/08/15 02:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Errolscool said:

WTF Man? IS that A REAL BABY?
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: JustForToday]
#22062931 - 08/08/15 02:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
Quote:
The International Military Tribunal for the Far East estimated that, in a addition to infants and the elderly, 20,000 women were raped.[47] A large portion of these rapes were systematized in a process in which soldiers would go from door to door, searching for girls, with many women being captured and gang raped.[48] The women were often killed immediately after being raped, often through explicit mutilation[49] or by pentetrating vaginas with bayonets, long sticks of bamboo, or other objects. Young children were not exempt from these atrocities and were cut open to allow Japanese soldiers to rape them
And yes the Japs were infamous for bayoneting anything and everything including babies.
Edited by ChinChiller (08/08/15 02:33 PM)
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
Chief Globerts


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: JustForToday]
#22062936 - 08/08/15 02:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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No its not a real baby that photo is staged by the imperial american revisionist propaganda machine.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL]
#22062941 - 08/08/15 02:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
CHeifM4sterDiezL said: No its not a real baby that photo is staged by the imperial american revisionist propaganda machine.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22062944 - 08/08/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think id take a nuke over Nanking.
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CHeifM4sterDiezL
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22062947 - 08/08/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: CHeifM4sterDiezL] 1
#22063356 - 08/08/15 04:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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no rapes and atrocity was ever attributed to an American soldier. they shot bunnies and and flowers out of their rifles instead of bullets.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: akira_akuma]
#22063390 - 08/08/15 04:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: no rapes and atrocity was ever attributed to an American soldier. they shot bunnies and and flowers out of their rifles instead of bullets.
I mean yeah, but nanking was like a rape fest. I woulda been behind just dropping one bomb then letting the chinese pull a nanking on nagasaki.
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lowbrow
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante]
#22063405 - 08/08/15 04:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Tldr
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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akira_akuma
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22063412 - 08/08/15 04:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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it's soldiers being soldiers. it's a lack of command. it's not because of how they were raised. why would the fucking people of Japan deserve "a Nanking"? kind of a sick thing to say, man.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: akira_akuma]
#22063434 - 08/08/15 04:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: it's soldiers being soldiers. it's a lack of command. it's not because of how they were raised. why would the fucking people of Japan deserve "a Nanking"? kind of a sick thing to say, man.
You think systematic rape is just soldiers being soldiers? 20,000 women isnt an isolated incident.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22063448 - 08/08/15 04:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That wasnt just a hiccup in the chain of command. That probably came directly from the people in command.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: akira_akuma]
#22063460 - 08/08/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: kind of a sick thing to say do, man.
Quote:
The women were often killed immediately after being raped, often through explicit mutilation[49] or by pentetrating vaginas with bayonets, long sticks of bamboo, or other objects. Young children were not exempt from these atrocities and were cut open to allow Japanese soldiers to rape them
Im just saying that the Japanese weren't the most innocent of the bunch in WWII, and frankly it could have been a lot worse then 2 lil nukes.
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lowbrow
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: akira_akuma]
#22063487 - 08/08/15 04:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I once watched a documentary on the rape of Nanjing. I started crying half-way through it. The Japanese army were some of the most uncaring, ruthless assholes in existence.
They had it coming.
And it wasn't a lack of command, they were told to do there worst, and damn they did.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Konyap

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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: lowbrow]
#22063527 - 08/08/15 04:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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White men wouldn't put there dicks anywhere near ethnic pussy unless there was heroin around
the russians were the rapist, AFTER the war ended
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Konyap]
#22063540 - 08/08/15 04:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Konyap said: White men wouldn't put there dicks anywhere near ethnic pussy unless there was heroin around
the russians were the rapist, AFTER the war ended
I wonder what the Russians would do if they had bayonets in the mix as well, learn a thing or two from the Japanese.
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akira_akuma
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: lowbrow]
#22063543 - 08/08/15 04:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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still yet: the Japanese soldiers of war = all Japanese people, including the innocent non-combatants whom had not the soldiers disregard for life; because who can even bother to make a distinction here.
let me try it out: you guys like busting into Iraqi homes and shooting up little girls. damn guys you're cold hearted bastards, probably deserve to have some WMD's planted in your homes so you can get tread upon, because you know, you deserve it.
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ChinChiller



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: akira_akuma]
#22063570 - 08/08/15 04:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Im not saying all japanese are rapists and murderers, but hey karmas a bitch and honestly they should consider themselves lucky that it was only two nukes. Some of the shit the Japanese Imperial Army did is the most horrific stuff I have ever heard or seen, nothing the likes of which the US military did in the 20th Century.
Their civilians should consider themselves lucky that they werent Nanking-ed and instead got two quite small a bombs dropped on them.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22063580 - 08/08/15 04:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22063582 - 08/08/15 04:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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But what really grinds my gears is the right wing/nationalists in Japan want this all written out of the history books so it can all happen all over again.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: 404]
#22063585 - 08/08/15 04:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
404 said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
"Nankinged" ?
A wee bit crude, just trying to make a point here.
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ThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: akira_akuma]
#22063661 - 08/08/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: still yet: the Japanese soldiers of war = all Japanese people, including the innocent non-combatants whom had not the soldiers disregard for life; because who can even bother to make a distinction here.
let me try it out: you guys like busting into Iraqi homes and shooting up little girls. damn guys you're cold hearted bastards, probably deserve to have some WMD's planted in your homes so you can get tread upon, because you know, you deserve it.
Reported for terrorism.
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[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22063701 - 08/08/15 05:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Errolscool said:
Quote:
404 said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
"Nankinged" ?
A wee bit crude, just trying to make a point here.
no, i'm asking if that's what you meant? i didn't understand the name nor the reference
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ChinChiller



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: 404] 1
#22063758 - 08/08/15 05:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I turned Nanking, a place in China where the Japanese raped and massacred into a verb. It was a really messed up part of history so using it in that context as a verb is a little crude/low brow. Sorry I should have taken the question mark as a question mark!
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Konyap

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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22063875 - 08/08/15 06:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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They Nanking'd the fuck outta you bro
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Konyap

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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Konyap]
#22063884 - 08/08/15 06:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Nam LoL
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Konyap]
#22063935 - 08/08/15 06:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I Nagasaki'd the shit out of that chick last night.
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akira_akuma
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller] 1
#22064131 - 08/08/15 07:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Errolscool said: Im not saying all japanese are rapists and murderers, but hey karmas a bitch and honestly they should consider themselves lucky that it was only two nukes. Some of the shit the Japanese Imperial Army did is the most horrific stuff I have ever heard or seen, nothing the likes of which the US military did in the 20th Century.
Their civilians should consider themselves lucky that they werent Nanking-ed and instead got two quite small a bombs dropped on them.
so by your logic, America needs some fake reports of WMD's to go and get some freedom fighters on their asses to terrorize the civilian population. like i said, you're attributing the acts of a few to the whole country. you're not thinking; you're reacting.
PS: don't act like black sites don't exist for the American government. and that unethical human experimentation has never occurred in the US under the guise of authority.
please don't.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: akira_akuma]
#22064170 - 08/08/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You're right. However, the actions of the Japanese army in WWII were not just "the few" because of the scope and scale of the atrocities. Also the bombs were dropped on targets with some military value and as a way to end the war/ not punishment for Nanking or any other atrocities committed by the Japanese. I feel as though the Japanese government needs to own up and actually be more honest with themselves about their past abuses i.e. systematic rape/torture/executions and also especially the abuses to women..Like the recent fiasco with certain right wingers denying any form of forced prostitution, which they definitely were doing to women in parts of Asia.
My point really is Nagasaki and Hiroshima was childs play compared to the stuff the Japanese military was doing to civilians, so Im not gonna shed a single tear about it.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: akira_akuma]
#22064188 - 08/08/15 07:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Errolscool said: Im not saying all japanese are rapists and murderers, but hey karmas a bitch and honestly they should consider themselves lucky that it was only two nukes. Some of the shit the Japanese Imperial Army did is the most horrific stuff I have ever heard or seen, nothing the likes of which the US military did in the 20th Century.
Their civilians should consider themselves lucky that they werent Nanking-ed and instead got two quite small a bombs dropped on them.
so by your logic, America needs some fake reports of WMD's to go and get some freedom fighters on their asses to terrorize the civilian population. like i said, you're attributing the acts of a few to the whole country. you're not thinking; you're reacting.
PS: don't act like black sites don't exist for the American government. and that unethical human experimentation has never occurred in the US under the guise of authority.
please don't.
Hey man im not saying America is hot shit or ever right, fuck no its not. But we arent nanking-ing stuff...thats like a whole new level.
Edited by ChinChiller (08/08/15 08:00 PM)
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22064227 - 08/08/15 07:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Especially when it comes to WW2 it's hard to find good original sources to paint an accurate picture, which benefits people who want to paint things one way or another, but really there's no comparing atrocities, and it's a fact that the "Rape of Nanking" has been as much a propaganda talking point in the time since the events occurred as an example of the overall character of the Japanese
I think when talking about atrocities and the worst of the worst, and this is cynical I guess, but I think the worst things are glossed over when someone takes an angle like "the Japanese were the most inhuman ever" or whatever it is. They might have been bad, but that part of the world wasn't no picnic and it would be a huge mistake to think that they are the exception rather than the rule when it comes to warfare.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: moonrockmushy]
#22064233 - 08/08/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Its hard to top the holocaust.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: moonrockmushy]
#22064236 - 08/08/15 07:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Really what I worry about is the Japanese not knowing themselves the extent of the shit they pulled.
Those right wing facist nut jobs over there are actively working to do this.
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Konyap

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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22064260 - 08/08/15 07:43 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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right wing facist nut jobs the world over
thieves...
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twighead
mͯó



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Konyap]
#22064262 - 08/08/15 07:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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this sounds like a job for nuts! and bags!
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22064286 - 08/08/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Errolscool said: Really what I worry about is the Japanese not knowing themselves the extent of the shit they pulled.
Those right wing facist nut jobs over there are actively working to do this.
Yeah well it's not like the Chinese wouldn't like to take advantage of that issue to gain political leverage. When it comes down to it neither state has much regard for human rights, and I think most of this sort of propaganda is aimed at influencing western countries who do not want to be associated with this inhuman treatment. I'm not saying that there aren't people in both countries who care about the truth, but in terms of the government and bulk of accusatory literature concerning war atrocities, I think it is important to take everything with a grain of salt.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: moonrockmushy]
#22064293 - 08/08/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It goes both ways, the Japanese far right wants the South China Sea and some islands for Japan not China, so hiding it is also political leverage.
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22064297 - 08/08/15 07:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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God damn historical revisionists!
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akira_akuma
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22064301 - 08/08/15 07:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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there was no ad hominem.
i actually agree with your previous post, before this comment.
all i'm saying is the Japanese military is not the Japanese civilian.
the two are distinct. one committed atrocity, the other did not.
simple.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22064317 - 08/08/15 08:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Errolscool said: It goes both ways, the Japanese far right wants the South China Sea and some islands for Japan not China, so hiding it is also political leverage.
Yeah I can't argue with that. I was trying to get to the bottom of it and find good data on the event, but apparently much was destroyed by the Japanese.
This would be suspiscious to me if I didn't read a ducument from a Japanese agency that was basically like "this idea gained so much popularity in the west because human rights is considered a "golden" issue in the US", and they were trying to argue that the assault was exagerrated but that statement alone, the implication that Japan does not care about human rights, gives me the feeling that something they don't want to acknowledge to the international community happened. I have to imagine there is some truth to it, but like I said this is not unheard of in militaries of the time.
Asia is a complicated and sometimes brutal place that we don't really understand as well as European aspects of WW2, which even that is a pretty murky pool of knowledge.
Edited by moonrockmushy (08/08/15 08:04 PM)
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ThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller] 1
#22065474 - 08/09/15 01:05 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Errolscool said: Its hard to top the holocaust.
Not really.
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
#22065478 - 08/09/15 01:07 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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ThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22065553 - 08/09/15 01:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That Graem always throws me off. I never really know what people are trying to say with it.
-------------------- Check Out My Beats SoundCloud
[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
Posts: 3,270
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
#22065600 - 08/09/15 02:20 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ThatKidWithTheFace said: That Graem always throws me off. I never really know what people are trying to say with it.
Its kinda like a duh!
Bad choice of graem on my part
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ChinChiller



Registered: 07/03/10
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
#22065601 - 08/09/15 02:21 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Good ol' Pol Pot
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ThatKidWithTheFace
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ChinChiller]
#22065614 - 08/09/15 02:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can dig it
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[quote]Sheekle said: [quote]ThatKidWithTheFace said: Is this the same aunt that fucks dogs?[/quote] u bet ur ass it is.[/quote]
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Asante
Mage


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: ThatKidWithTheFace]
#22065754 - 08/09/15 04:26 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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And so, today it's the 9th. At 11:02 local time, 21 kilotons of scorching heat, devastating blast and insidious radioactivity ravaged the city of Nagasaki.

Quote:
"like a graveyard with not a tombstone standing"
- Japanese report on Nagasaki after the bombing


article

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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante] 1
#22065789 - 08/09/15 05:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i think it's so wild that the island of japan has had so many nuclear mishaps. earthquakes, tsunamis, cyclones, meltdowns, and the only place that's ever had nuclear bombs used against it in wartime. not exactly a place i'd wanna be really.
i bet the bombs had quite a trickle down effect on japan's culture as well, considering so many people and things we're obliterated in the matter of seconds. people left with missing sections of their families out of nowhere. shadows cast forever on the pavement.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,796
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: 404] 2
#22065821 - 08/09/15 05:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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George Takei, whom many of us know as Mr Sulu from Star Trek and many other public performances, lost several family members in the nuclear bombing of Hiroshima.
Yes it thoroughly influenced the Japanese culture, notable among things in manga and anime culture.
Fennario posted the following piece of an Anime which is quite graphic but clearly shows the influence. Like I said before, the American story is all about scientific, logistic and military triumph but the Japanese story starts with two cities wiped out in seconds, out of the blue. The Imperial Army knew more but the people, who were victimized, knew nothing. Of the ~50,000 people killed outright in Nagasaki there were only 150 soldiers and there were 13 prisoners of war.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante] 1
#22065830 - 08/09/15 05:33 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The original Godzilla was also a really powerful film about the bombings. No, really!
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: Asante]
#22066621 - 08/09/15 10:47 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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George Tekei also lived in an internment camp for Japanese-American citizens with as a child, which it's kinda surprising sometimes to find out there are people still here today who went through that.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: moonrockmushy]
#22066648 - 08/09/15 10:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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There are still people alive who fought in it
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daz01
Learning


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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: zappaisgod]
#22066758 - 08/09/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
That Tsar Bomba 100 is so fucking scary. I never realized nukes could get THAT powerful.
-------------------- Pain is temporary. It may last for a minute or an hour or a day or even a year but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place. If I quit, however, it will last forever.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: daz01]
#22066771 - 08/09/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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that is a cool link but.... disconcerting...
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twighead
mͯó



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: daz01]
#22068046 - 08/09/15 04:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
daz01 said: http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
That Tsar Bomba 100 is so fucking scary. I never realized nukes could get THAT powerful.
& MIRV's bruv.
Each line = a megaton of explosive force surrounding a target
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Turtletotem
Dutch Delight



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Re: August 6 and 9 -- 70 years ago nuclear fire raged through the streets of Hiroshima and Nagasaki [Re: daz01]
#22070480 - 08/10/15 04:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
daz01 said: http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/
That Tsar Bomba 100 is so fucking scary. I never realized nukes could get THAT powerful.
Detonated it in Amsterdam, 1/3 of my country is gone. Shit that is one scary website, man.
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