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uninc4life2010
Unincorporated



Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1,124
Last seen: 7 months, 12 days
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Few questions on mono tub colonization...
#22051660 - 08/06/15 02:33 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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1. Is it okay to just tape over the holes with duct or clear packaging tape rather than stuffing them tight with poly? I'm afraid too much moisture will build up and lead to water pooling on the substrate during colonization.
2. Is it okay to stack them on top of each other while colonizing? I remember doing so a while back, and it seemed like the heat from the top mono tub caused a lot of condensation to collect on the lid, resulting in a lot of water dripping on the lower tub's surface. Maybe my moisture content was too high.
3. How necessary is the black trash bag liner? It is a bit of a pain to position in the tub, and I would really like to abandon it. How much of a difference would it make if I just left it off of my next tub?
4. If there is too much water pooling on the surface of my mycelium when I birth the tub, does that mean I am hydrating the substrate above field capacity and need to use less water? From what I understand, field capacity means that a very small stream of water should flow from the medium when I squeeze it very hard, and only a drop or two should come out when I squeeze it with moderate strength.
Thanks! I use 66 qt latching sterilite tubs if anyone is wondering.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: uninc4life2010]
#22051673 - 08/06/15 02:40 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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1. don't put poly in the holes till fruiting time. tape's fine. you want to not have fresh air exchange till that time anyway. polyfill will undermine that. 2. in my experience water has dropped on to the surface, mainly from the sides... it doesnt seem to affect the colonization, i dab any little pools with a paper towel when fruiting time arives. i have stacked before with few issues. 3. black trashbag makes a huge difference, and makes it less likely to fruit from the bottom and sides. 4. 4 qts of water is fine for a brick of coir, is that what you are using?
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uninc4life2010
Unincorporated



Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1,124
Last seen: 7 months, 12 days
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: 404]
#22051678 - 08/06/15 02:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
404 said: 1. don't put poly in the holes till fruiting time. tape's fine. you want to not have fresh air exchange till that time anyway. polyfill will undermine that. 2. in my experience water has dropped on to the surface, mainly from the sides... it doesnt seem to affect the colonization, i dab any little pools with a paper towel when fruiting time arives. i have stacked before with few issues. 3. black trashbag makes a huge difference, and makes it less likely to fruit from the bottom and sides. 4. 4 qts of water is fine for a brick of coir, is that what you are using?
I usually use 4-5 quarts for 650 grams of coir (I buy my coir in the 5kg brick), 2 quarts of verm, and a cup of gypsum. I usually like to air closer to 4 though. In the past, however, I probably was using more than that, which could have been part of my problem.
Edited by uninc4life2010 (08/06/15 02:46 AM)
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: uninc4life2010]
#22051681 - 08/06/15 02:47 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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air closer to 4?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: uninc4life2010]
#22051685 - 08/06/15 02:49 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Black trash bags don't make a difference. What matters most is the liner sticking to it (this is why you see lots of members saying not to tape the liners to the walls. It'll keep it from sticking to the sides of the sub as it shrinks). Clear liners are better Imo because you can see colonization, or possible contams.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: Mad Season]
#22051693 - 08/06/15 02:53 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i hate using liners. i thought he meant using a black trash bag on the bottom part on the outside for fruiting, in which case, they DO make a huge difference. side pins and bottom pins suck hard in monos.
clear sterilite tubs are the way to go, you can see all around, and can just cover it up in the end when you need to. i have not once had a problem with substrate sticking to the sides... ever.
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uninc4life2010
Unincorporated



Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1,124
Last seen: 7 months, 12 days
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: Mad Season]
#22051695 - 08/06/15 02:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
404 said: air closer to 4?
Sorry, I meant "err" not "air"
Quote:
Mad Season said: Black trash bags don't make a difference. What matters most is the liner sticking to it (this is why you see lots of members saying not to tape the liners to the walls. It'll keep it from sticking to the sides of the sub as it shrinks). Clear liners are better Imo because you can see colonization, or possible contams.
Really? Side pinning isn't too much of a problem?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: 404]
#22051702 - 08/06/15 02:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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@ 404 I don't even use liners or tape or bags or anything seriously. I just case it because I have a bit of a dry climate, mist it very generously when it needs it, sometimes I don't even have any poly in the top holes, and I will rarely see side pins, even if it shrinks away from the wall. The key is to keep the surface of the substrate 99% humid/hydrated. It'll make it pin on the surface. It's the microclimates dammit! 
@uninc if the liner is sticking to the side of the substrate, it has no where to pin. That's the goal of a liner
Edited by Mad Season (08/06/15 03:01 AM)
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uninc4life2010
Unincorporated



Registered: 06/05/10
Posts: 1,124
Last seen: 7 months, 12 days
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: Mad Season]
#22051707 - 08/06/15 03:05 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said:
@uninc if the liner is sticking to the side of the substrate, it has no where to pin. That's the goal of a liner
Well, no where to pin but the top. But I still see your point.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: Mad Season]
#22051708 - 08/06/15 03:06 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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evaporation last i read was one of the largest pinning factors, which comes with fresh air exchange. i'm not sure what climate you are in but my typical day is humid as fuck... i have 30-50% rh indoors though. all i know is that if i'm seeing condensation on the inside of the environment, i'm good.
i've noticed that the black trashbag on the outside takes care of the side pinning and bottom pins. i had been doing with out either liner or outside bag, and was getting pins on the sides... now i don't get problems like that at all really.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: 404] 1
#22051744 - 08/06/15 03:36 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You don't need to sell me on fae I rarely have the top holes stuffed. My climates under 10% humidity normally. Idk what to tell you. If you can keep the surface as humid as the sides, or more humid, it'll pin on the surface. That with a Lower relative humidity will cause it to evaporate 24/7. If you can mist perfectly when needed, or case it like I do to keep more moisture on the surface (moisture barrier), it seems to pin on the surface. Sometimes I see no condensation lol. I just stick my hand in and it usually feels like a wall of humidity.
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


Registered: 06/08/15
Posts: 222
Loc: USA
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: 404]
#22051901 - 08/06/15 05:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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.
Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:51 PM)
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psilobob
Inter dimensional Explorer



Registered: 05/28/15
Posts: 154
Loc: North Easty
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22051984 - 08/06/15 06:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think 404 is trying to say that a trash bag on the outside of your tub isn't going to prevent pinning on the bottom or sides. For pinning light isn't a huge trigger. Relative humidity close to the substrate and evaporation off the substrate are the main triggers, which is why liners work, they prevent evaporation from the sides as your substrate shrinks. You can try without the liner, depending on your environment you might get pins on the side. I'm running some trays in a SGFC where the liner slipped a little on one side and i've got 3 pins sticking up there already.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: psilobob]
#22053948 - 08/06/15 02:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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what i am saying, is that i've noticed workable results by not bothering with the liner and just using a bag around the bottom outside of the tub to prevent bottom pins entirely and to some degree side pins. i shouldn't have said that i don't get side pins as the substrate uses up nutrients and water it shrinks, exposing the sides to fae. so i still get them, however at that stage and rate they are much more manageable.
mad season- what is curious to me is you said you left the holes open at the top with no poly, that's pretty crazy. i feel uneasy doing that here because my workspace environment isn't exactly sterile.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: 404]
#22054058 - 08/06/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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everyone used to do that back in the day. or tape the bottom of the tub.
im not going to get into a light and pinning trigger debate but if you test it you will find after numerous runs that it does indeed decrease side pins occurrence overall but not altogether.
but a liner clear or black whatever you want, inside, works better and can eliminate side pins altogether.it works in several ways. sticking to the side of sub and shrinking with it and thus removing micro climate at the sides and prevents evap from the sides. making the best and most likely place the surface if you are doing things right
and i will say that with a clear liner i get knots on the sides(i checked several times after cycle) but these are restricted and cannot form pins as the conditions are not correct
and with a black liner i get no sign of knots at all in any i have checked!best of both worlds.
so light has a certain propensity to encourage the knots with a clear liner but not to form pins.
and a liner or tape on the out side will prevent light encouraging knots but will succumb too the microclimate and evap when sub shrinks. imo
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Edited by mustangbob3 (08/06/15 03:26 PM)
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: mustangbob3]
#22054109 - 08/06/15 03:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i get why a liner is sometimes used, but i have personally found it to be a pain when disposing of the substrate as it just creates more trash and doesnt really help when the substrate goes sour as it gets all mushy and gets all over the place.
with the method i use, i can see how colonization is coming along, and then block out light when i need to. i can also reuse the trashbags over and over.
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BombSquadron65
If you see me running... O~*


Registered: 03/24/13
Posts: 12
Loc: Right behind you.
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: uninc4life2010]
#22054114 - 08/06/15 03:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
uninc4life2010 said: 1. Is it okay to just tape over the holes with duct or clear packaging tape rather than stuffing them tight with poly? I'm afraid too much moisture will build up and lead to water pooling on the substrate during colonization.
IMO, painter's tape (the blue stuff) is better. The reason being that it peels off clean, so it won't leave any residue for gunk to stick to.
Quote:
uninc4life2010 said:2. Is it okay to stack them on top of each other while colonizing? I remember doing so a while back, and it seemed like the heat from the top mono tub caused a lot of condensation to collect on the lid, resulting in a lot of water dripping on the lower tub's surface. Maybe my moisture content was too high.
I would not do so because of exactly the reason you noted. The RH should be around 98% or so. You want the environment to be moist. The condensation is because of temperature differentials. That's just the way condensation works and, thus, is why you shouldn't stack tubs.
Quote:
uninc4life2010 said:3. How necessary is the black trash bag liner? It is a bit of a pain to position in the tub, and I would really like to abandon it. How much of a difference would it make if I just left it off of my next tub?
IMO, it's not necessary at all. When I did my first monotub, I asked about the bag and was told to not bother with it. I didn't do it then and I haven't ever since. I'm sure it is useful for some people for whatever reasons, but I find that it's a needless complication that can be another source of contamination.
Quote:
uninc4life2010 said:4. If there is too much water pooling on the surface of my mycelium when I birth the tub, does that mean I am hydrating the substrate above field capacity and need to use less water? From what I understand, field capacity means that a very small stream of water should flow from the medium when I squeeze it very hard, and only a drop or two should come out when I squeeze it with moderate strength.
Thanks! I use 66 qt latching sterilite tubs if anyone is wondering.
This may not be the case, but it could be. I know that's not a great answer, but it's hard to really tell without pics of what you mean by "too much water pooling..."
Generally, water will pool on the mycelium because the Relative Humidity is so high that it creates a perfect condition for highly active condensation and because of metabolite excretions made by the mycelium itself, commonly referred to as myco-piss due to its yellow tint. All of this is common and not a big deal. Just get a paper towel and dab it up.
As a rule of thumb, it's better to bit too moist than to be too dry.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: 404]
#22054152 - 08/06/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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one way round a liner that almost works but sometimes get the odd side pin that has worked for me when i got no liners..
late case. with just verm and loose on top and what i find happens is most of the time if you case after knotting and first pin appears the myc never colonises any of the casing( so make it 1inch max) the pins just push through and the casing just supplys the humidity right where you want it on top of the knots and the humid air pockets encourage these into pins.
how in helps with side pins somewhat is the verm falls down the gaps to some extent as they never get colonised and this somewhat inhibits the side pins.
i think maybe in the area under the verm at the side may be too high co2 for pin formation and thats what lends a hand too.
its not fail safe but helps in a fix if you got no liner!
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


Registered: 06/08/15
Posts: 222
Loc: USA
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: mustangbob3]
#22054638 - 08/06/15 05:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:52 PM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: Few questions on mono tub colonization... [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22054648 - 08/06/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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ctrl + f : harvest shows 0 results which makes me wanna say liners are great at harvest day, just lift the sub out by the liner and put it in front of you on a table!
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