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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22060167 - 08/07/15 07:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Kidneys sustain damage when the toxins they filter are not flushed from the nephritic apparatus. Moreover, accumulation of calcium or oxalates begins to form kidney stones. If you don't know why not to defy nature, you're probably going to want to fill the occipital lobe of your brain with blue-white light from looking at the sun, and go blind in the process. Please don't ask me why someone would go blind looking at the sun (but it's permanent blindness). If you want to believe that someone can hold their breath for 16 hours, or be entombed for days underground in a coffin, then you probably think that those magicians on YouTube are really and actually passing through solid glass covered with paper. :shrug: There ARE magicians and fakirs in other cultures. Don't bet your life on what only appears to be real.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (08/07/15 09:06 PM)


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InvisibleBayerPhi
Always Learning


Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 1,884
Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22060566 - 08/07/15 08:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DottoreWolfe said:
I doubt it could cause kidney damage, maybe it could strain your bladder or you would end up just pissing yourself, but I can't see any physical reason why kidneys would get damaged.




You can't see because you don't know enough about the kidneys to see.


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OfflineDottoreWolfe
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Registered: 02/21/15
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Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22060890 - 08/07/15 10:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Kidneys sustain damage when the toxins they filter are not flushed from the nephritic apparatus. Moreover, accumulation of calcium or oxalates begins to form kidney stones. If you don't know why not to defy nature, you're probably going to want to fill the occipital lobe of your brain with blue-white light from looking at the sun, and go blind in the process. Please don't ask me why someone would go blind looking at the sun (but it's permanent blindness). If you want to believe that someone can hold their breath for 16 hours, or be entombed for days underground in a coffin, then you probably think that those magicians on YouTube are really and actually passing through solid glass covered with paper. :shrug: There ARE magicians and fakirs in other cultures. Don't bet your life on what only appears to be real.




well there are plenty of people that actually have been scientifically tested and afterwards regarded as able to defy the laws of physics as they currently stand. http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/208386/inside_the_superhuman_world_of_the_iceman/
I mean i'll never meditate for 12 hours without peeing, unless while I was meditating I just didn't have to pee.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality.



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: DottoreWolfe] * 1
    #22061941 - 08/08/15 09:16 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

well there are plenty of people that actually have been scientifically tested and afterwards regarded as able to defy the laws of physics as they currently stand. http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/208386/inside_the_superhuman_world_of_the_iceman/
I mean i'll never meditate for 12 hours without peeing, unless while I was meditating I just didn't have to pee.




Having an unusual influence over the autonomic nervous system is not a defiance of "the laws of nature." I only watched enough to get the gist of this vid. He was able to spike releases of adrenaline. Fine. I have been a hypnotherapist for 26 years and have seen my clients lose their alleged fibromyalgia, for example. I have watched a demonstration of a middle-aged woman, in trance, whose autonomic system was controlled to the point where she attained bodily rigidity and was capable of being completely immobile when only her head and ankles were supported. Even a muscular gymnast could not accomplish this for long by sheer willpower. The unconscious, when accessed in certain altered states can produce bodily heat, the tum-mo of the Tibetan yogis, allowing them to dry wet sheets on their bodies while naked in the snowy Himalayas. They melt the snow around their bodies. Amazing process of bio-psychic energies not yet recognized by allopathic medicine, but not in defiance of the "laws of nature."

Many people have 'attested' to the powers of Muslim fakirs in India who throw a rope in the air, climb it while it remains rigid, and then rain down severed body parts (in one variation). Group hypnosis apparently, as the fakir is later seen to be perfectly fine. He has not defied the laws of physics, he has performed a masterful feat of group hypnosis, at least in one aspect. In another, the rope itself may be formed around a locking-linked chain which can be made rigid. People have been getting tricked for centuries. This guy says he's hypnotizing the rope! :lol:

There is magic, and there is magick. There are parapsychological functions, or siddhis (in India), but magick would suggest willful control of such abilities. It is possible that some rare souls possess control, or more likely, are in harmony with the Transcendent which governs these things.  As  spontaneous events, I experienced the handful of personal events more as grace - to be shown what was possible. But these were in the realm of the Psychic not the Pneumatic (spiritual). The defiance, or rather suspension or 'warping' of the laws of physics as we understand them suggests a new paradigm of physics, not the intervention of a personal God in the phenomenon Who would be creating a miracle for human benefit. This is not to deny the existence of God, just to defy the mythic conception of God as a heavenly king like Zeus (Deus in Latin) in Greek mythology. Bottom line: such paranormal events, when genuine are still not metaphysical events.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (08/08/15 04:22 PM)


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OfflineDottoreWolfe
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Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22062915 - 08/08/15 02:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
well there are plenty of people that actually have been scientifically tested and afterwards regarded as able to defy the laws of physics as they currently stand. http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/208386/inside_the_superhuman_world_of_the_iceman/
I mean i'll never meditate for 12 hours without peeing, unless while I was meditating I just didn't have to pee.




Having an unusual influence over the autonomic nervous system is not a defiance of "the laws of nature." I only watched enough to get the gist of this vid. He was able to spike releases of adrenaline. Fine. I have been a hypnotherapist for 26 years and have seen my clients lose their alleged fibromyalgia, for example. I have watched a demonstration of a middle-aged woman, in trance, whose autonomic system was controlled to the point where she attained bodily rigidity and was capable of being completely immobile when only her head and ankles were supported. Even a muscular gymnast could not accomplish this for long by sheer willpower. The unconscious, when accessed in certain altered states can produce bodily heat, the tum-mo of the Tibetan yogis, allowing them to dry wet sheets on their bodies while naked in the snowy Himalayas. They melt the snow around their bodies. Amazing process of bio-psychic energies not yet recognized by allopathic medicine, but not in defiance of the "laws of nature."

Many people have 'attested' to the powers of Muslim fakirs in India who throw a rope in the air, climb it while it remains rigid, and then rain down severed body parts (in one variation). Group hypnosis apparently, as the fakir is later seen to be perfectly fine. He has not defied the laws of physics, he has performed a masterful feat of group hypnosis, at least in one aspect. In another, the rope itself may be formed around a locking-linked chain which can be made rigid. People have been getting tricked for centuries. This guy says he's hypnotizing the rope! :lol:

There is magic, and there is magick. There are parapsychological functions, or siddhis (in India), but magick would suggest willful control of such abilities. It is possible that some rare souls possess control, or more likely, are in harmony with the Transcendent which governs these things.  As  spontaneous events, I experienced the handful of personal events more as grace - show me what was possible. But these were in the realm of the Psychic not the Pneumatic (spiritual). The defiance, or rather suspension or 'warping' of the laws of physics as we understand them suggests a new paradigm of physics, not the intervention of a personal God in the phenomenon Who would be creating a miracle for human benefit. This is not to deny the existence of God, just to defy the mythic conception of God as a heavenly king like Zeus (Deus in Latin) in Greek mythology. Bottom line: such paranormal events, when genuine are still not metaphysical events.






Normally I like to argue, but this is a good point. But nevertheless OP should meditate daily 5-15 minutes xD


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality.



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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22070743 - 08/10/15 07:48 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Honestly, I don't follow the advice of having a focal point like PocketLady, rather I feel like trying to focus just adds more unnecessary thoughts to my mind. Just breathe and remain thoughtless and let your focus fall where it may.




In my experience it's impossible to "remain thoughtless" without a point of focus. It's like saying to someone "Don't think about elephants!" What's the first thing you think about?  There does need to be some kind of focus, even if that focus is just to be aware of your own awareness.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Offlinedeff
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Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: PocketLady] * 1
    #22070754 - 08/10/15 07:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

well in the practice of zazen there's the idea of 'just sitting' which doesn't really have a focal point, the mind is left just as it is. but prior to getting to this practice one is often encouraged to focus on the breath i think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazen#Shikantaza

i enjoy this style of meditation much more than having a fixed point of reference :smile:

in this thoughts are allowed to come and go as they will, eventually subsiding as the meditation strengthens on their own accord. like the quote "don't try to stop thoughts, let thoughts stop themselves". another way to think about it is that it's meditation on awareness itself, which eventually leads to a thoughtless state (or statelessness perhaps?) :smile:


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: deff] * 1
    #22070836 - 08/10/15 08:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Oh I completely agree Deff. That's exactly what I meant when I said about being aware of your own awareness as the focal point :smile:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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InvisibleBayerPhi
Always Learning


Registered: 05/28/12
Posts: 1,884
Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: PocketLady]
    #22071533 - 08/10/15 12:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
In my experience it's impossible to "remain thoughtless" without a point of focus. It's like saying to someone "Don't think about elephants!" What's the first thing you think about?  There does need to be some kind of focus, even if that focus is just to be aware of your own awareness.




I thought, I wonder what the Elephants think of?


--------------------
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:alert: Mycology Fundamentals and Misc. Info :mushroom:

:chemistry: Stains, Reagents, and Media :alert:

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: BayerPhi]
    #22071875 - 08/10/15 01:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BayerPhi said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:
In my experience it's impossible to "remain thoughtless" without a point of focus. It's like saying to someone "Don't think about elephants!" What's the first thing you think about?  There does need to be some kind of focus, even if that focus is just to be aware of your own awareness.




I thought, I wonder what the Elephants think of?








--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineDottoreWolfe
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Registered: 02/21/15
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Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: deff]
    #22072116 - 08/10/15 02:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
well in the practice of zazen there's the idea of 'just sitting' which doesn't really have a focal point, the mind is left just as it is. but prior to getting to this practice one is often encouraged to focus on the breath i think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazen#Shikantaza

i enjoy this style of meditation much more than having a fixed point of reference :smile:

in this thoughts are allowed to come and go as they will, eventually subsiding as the meditation strengthens on their own accord. like the quote "don't try to stop thoughts, let thoughts stop themselves". another way to think about it is that it's meditation on awareness itself, which eventually leads to a thoughtless state (or statelessness perhaps?) :smile:




In zazen the idea of just sitting is many times not mutually exclusive with "allowing thoughts to come and go as they will eventually subsiding as the mediation strengthens". I do both. I was instructed to by a zazen yogi in Sacramento. She didn't use those exact words, but it was more along the lines of "if you have thoughts don't get angry it will cause more thoughts, instead just acknowledge the thought and let it pass, eventually your mind will slow itself down to the point of total thoughtlessness, total peace" (this isn't word for word either just a rough recollection).


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality.



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Offlinedeff
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Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: DottoreWolfe]
    #22072199 - 08/10/15 03:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

yeah i meant that that was a part of how just sitting in zen is done :smile:


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OfflineDottoreWolfe
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Registered: 02/21/15
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Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: deff]
    #22072694 - 08/10/15 05:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deff said:
yeah i meant that that was a part of how just sitting in zen is done :smile:




Nevertheless that was good advice brother<3
Now OP should have everything needed for a path to daily meditation.


--------------------
Everything I post should be regarded as wholly fictitious or hypothetical, nothing I post has any basis in reality.



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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Going in the right direction for mediation? [Re: Cowb0yNeal00]
    #22084012 - 08/12/15 11:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

OP mediation is not the same thing as meditation. You spelt the word "mediation" every time in the OP, but you meant to say Meditation. Mediation is a process of helping people resolve interpersonal conflicts, meditation is a process of inner cultivation and contemplation and concentration.


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Everything I post is fiction.


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