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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,807
What gives us faith?
    #22044191 - 08/04/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Throughout my life for as long as I can remember I have had no faith.

Even though I believe there is no intrinsic meaning to existence I have never experienced an existential crisis, I've heard that some people have faith because the alternative of no meaning is a frightening thought.

Whenever I think about this I get brought back to the question of why I do not have faith and so many others do?

Personal experiences are the only differences I can ascertain.
It makes me think that faith might simply be the result of personal experience.

It's odd though because I've had what many would claim to be personal 'spiritual' experiences yet I knew it was just my thoughts.

It seems silly to me that people give credit to religious ideologies instead of the coincidence of an experience.

Why do you have faith?


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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Onlinerxb
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Registered: 08/24/13
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Re: What gives us faith? [Re: sudly]
    #22044280 - 08/04/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

SO,

the guy from duck dynasty says:

Quote:

“I’ll make a bet with you,” Robertson said. “Two guys break into an atheist’s home. He has a little atheist wife and two little atheist daughters. Two guys break into his home and tie him up in a chair and gag him. And then they take his two daughters in front of him and rape both of them and then shoot them and they take his wife and then decapitate her head off in front of him. And then they can look at him and say, ‘Isn’t it great that I don’t have to worry about being judged? Isn’t it great that there’s nothing wrong with this? There’s no right or wrong, now is it dude?’”

Robertson kept going: “Then you take a sharp knife and take his manhood and hold it in front of him and say, ‘Wouldn’t it be something if this [sic] was something wrong with this? But you’re the one who says there is no God, there’s no right, there’s no wrong, so we’re just having fun. We’re sick in the head, have a nice day.’”

“If it happened to them,” Robertson continued, “they probably would say, ‘something about this just ain’t right.”




which, is a great point... and im borrowing from penn gillete, but this points out a great truth.

morality is bigger than any god, or any faith.

even the athiest, who has NO belief system, NO belief in ANY god, knows and understands what morality is.

there is no need for a god, or a belief to have morality.

i have some beliefs i have a religion, but to many i am an athiest. i believe in the universe, and that the universe is alive, and that it has a consciousness which is formed collectively from all things within the universe which can observe and collect data.

i believe further that there is no right or wrong per say... because ultimately actions which seem bad now may lead to outcomes which can subjectively be measured to be better overall than the harm being caused in the moment.

for example: murder is bad....most of us agree that the utility of having someone alive usually outweighs the good created by their murder, so we claim murder is bad, but if someone went back in time and murdered hitler before he caused any harm, then the outcome would be good (maybe)... and if we take the case where the outcomes are WEIGHED and the outcomes ARE better, then we could say for sure "this was a good murder"

so my morality concludes that no one can know what is good or bad, except the universe, which is simply the sum of all things. so the universe can see the results of actions on the future and the past, because the universe exists in all futures and all pasts.

i have faith that this is true, because it seems reasonable to me. i have seen enough "supernatural" things to know there are things we do not understand.

i feel all "supernatural" events have a reason which is grounded in science, but can sometimes only be explained at the time and place we live in, with ritual.

so i have a faith, and i have rituals.

i combine those into a belief system or dogma, and i have a religion.

at this time, i find this dogma to be helpful in guiding my decisions and explaining certain things. if i wrote down that dogma and it was interpreted over thousands of years, it would likely no longer be useful, or even say what i meant about most things.

it might even get used to inflict violence and persecution on others.

and then it would be a religion, of faith and belief without reason, which could be used to be a wealth generating system throughout the whole world as well as a means to control and corrupt societies.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: What gives us faith? [Re: rxb]
    #22044312 - 08/04/15 08:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

even the athiest, who has NO belief system, NO belief in ANY god, knows and understands what morality is.




huh?  Your belief system defines your moral compass, among other things.  You act as though morality is a thing to be discovered rather than one we are free to invent.  :rolleyes:  I roll my eyes because that means you are a person of faith and no discussion or debate is really possible with the faithful, to the extent that they are indeed faithful.


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Onlinerxb
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Re: What gives us faith? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22044325 - 08/04/15 08:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

huh?  Your belief system defines your moral compass, among other things




clearly even the idiot robertson realized that belief WAS NOT necisary for a moral compas.

he points out all too well that someone with NO faith would understand that the raping and murdering of his family was WRONG.

even tho he was trying to make the opposite point.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


Edited by rxb (08/04/15 08:20 PM)


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InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: What gives us faith? [Re: rxb]
    #22044368 - 08/04/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Why are you equating belief with faith?  Honestly it sounds like more religious babble.  The religous and faithful regularly assume and build their language to make that kind of association. 

Your moral compass is a belief.  Its not necessary for belief, it is a belief.  The faithful think morality is something to be found and they cannot accept, or sometimes even fathom, that morality is something that is created (like all of our beliefs).


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Onlinerxb
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Re: What gives us faith? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22044384 - 08/04/15 08:32 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

morality just is.

we all know what it is.

the grey areas are where morality spill into belief.


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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InvisibleHobozen
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Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc: Flag
Re: What gives us faith? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22044406 - 08/04/15 08:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

sudly said:
It's odd though because I've had what many would claim to be personal 'spiritual' experiences yet I knew it was just my thoughts.




how do you know they were *just* your thoughts?  how is your faith in your knowledge of your experiences any different than that of a religious person's?


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InvisibleTropism
ChasingTail


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 2,039
Re: What gives us faith? [Re: Hobozen]
    #22044483 - 08/04/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rxb said:
morality just is.

we all know what it is.





Well, do we? This is disproved daily when one individual's action they have deemed moral is view as otherwise to another person or party.
I mean, who's right? If you're going to fall back on well whatever feels right everyone knows it then that's exactly what both individuals will say.
Morals are relative and isolated incidences and tribes are good examples of how manipulated they can be given what the majority is doing.

That duck dynasty quote is crap. There's no direct correlation between someone's belief in a theistic god and their moral beliefs.
The lack of one doesn't mean the lack of the other.


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Onlinerxb
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Re: What gives us faith? [Re: Tropism]
    #22044499 - 08/04/15 08:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

morality is like pornography.

i know it when i jerk off to it :smile:


--------------------
->$10 FLOW HOOD ALTERNATIVE <-

. i cleaned a mold contaminated live culture and saved it. (might have useful applications)

[quote]Enlil said:
I'd be the guy with thousands of minions doing my bidding and all of the hot women locked in a cage for my use.[/quote]


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Invisiblesudly
Darwin's stagger

Registered: 01/05/15
Posts: 10,807
Re: What gives us faith? [Re: Hobozen]
    #22044705 - 08/04/15 09:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I know they were my thoughts because I was the one making those thoughts, it was basic synchronicity.


--------------------
I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.



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