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What_Is_Truth
Stranger
Registered: 08/04/15
Posts: 2
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Fundamental Flaw in the concept of "ego-death"?? 1
#22043754 - 08/04/15 06:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would like to begin with my personal history of psychedelic drug interest and usage. I was first introduced to the concept of a "positive drug effect" by the amazingly eloquent yet (in my opinion) slightly 'nutty' Terence Mckenna. From there 4-6 years of quite inspired and intense research and experimentation ensued. Including up to 450 mcg of 100% (or as close to as) lab grade LSD, several LARGE (100-150 mg) n,n as well as 5-Meo DMT (freebased correctly, with and without the addition of harmine), and as much as 15 grams dried cubensis mushroom infused in tea. Generally always in silent darkness.
Secondly I would like to quote the Encyclopedia Britannica "EGO, in psychoanalytic theory, that portion of the human personality which is experienced as the “self” or “I” and is in contact with the external world through perception" To which I would argue the external world also includes internal world in the sense that what is experienced is still "other than" the "I"
I would like thirdly to note, as I am sure you are all familiar with, the supposed "ego-death" surrounding certain psychoactive plants and substances. It has become almost pop-culture that a "enough psilocybin will induce an 'ego death.' Which I fear may in fact be, to quote Jung: "INFLATION. A state of mind characterized by an exaggerated sense of self-importance, often compensated by feelings of inferiority." (e.g. "I had an ego death, so I'm more enlightened than you")
Fourthly, I would like to clarify that I am in no way discounting the positive effects of such substances, as they have changed my own life considerably for the better.
However, my argument, if you can call it that, lies here. With the aspect of the so-called "ego-death". I have entered the darkness (of death?), the space between spaces, however; "I" was always there; present, conscious, and in the moment. For had I not been, there would be no recollection of the event. In my personal opinion the only possible "ego-death" could occur whilst unconscious (deep sleep or death).
Finally to the point of posting this: Am i completely and utterly misinformed? Could this be a metaphor of some sort that I have taken literally? Am i possibly "too attached" to my ego to 'let go'?
Do not reply and say that it is when "one realizes they are not only their own organism but the whole system of being, blah blah, universal oneness, yada yada" -- not to discredit this notion but really, who is it that feels it? ("I" do) and were back to square one.
P.S. PLEASE, PLEASE, feel free to not only consider me as, but to reply back and explain why i am an idiot. I can only know what I believe to be true in terms of what you believe to be true. I will be in no way be offended and would strongly appreciate all brutal honesty in any assessment of my point of view vis-à-vis your own experiences
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Nature Boy
Stranger than most



Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 8,241
Loc: Samsara
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
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Re: Fundamental Flaw in the concept of "ego-death"?? [Re: What_Is_Truth]
#22043971 - 08/04/15 07:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's an interesting and provocative first post. I would respond thus: I've never intentionally dosed any psychedelic to the extent that you claim to have done. However, ONE TIME I accidentally mistook salvia for plain pot, and the hits I took put me into an amnesiac state in which, as I recovered, I had no idea of who I was, where I was, or where I could find the consensual reality I vaguely remembered existed.
I had no recollection of having taken a drug...I just had a vague sense that the chaos I was experiencing could not possibly be compatible with life, human or otherwise. Admitting for a moment that salvia is an atypical psychedelic, a dissociative, really, changes nothing.. Technically, I experienced ego death in that I had no understanding of who I was, or even my name. And the world around me was entirely unfamiliar and foreign.
So, ego death....does that qualify? Not sure myself. "I" only experienced this as a memory AFTER THE FACT. Therefore, at the time of the actual occurrence, one might say Ego death had been experienced.
N.B.
-------------------- All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies. Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit. Note well: Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend. If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Fundamental Flaw in the concept of "ego-death"?? [Re: What_Is_Truth]
#22044217 - 08/04/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've had very similar reactions to the notion of "ego-death" as you put forward here. There is some sort of self there, at all times, or else, as you point out, how can we have any memory of an event at all? Who or What is there, consciously observing? Some sort of self, tied to you, must always exist -- otherwise you are positing unconsciousness.
I tend to look at the situation this way: there are really two selves. The lower self is the classical, causal "ego-self." The higher self is the post-classical, atypical/acausal "true self." The object of the psychedelic experience, indeed of all mystical experience, is to attain to the latter as much as possible.
I have no comment on Castaneda in general, but he wrote some interesting things and I like this quote on our subject here:
"Every one of us human beings has two minds. One is totally ours, and it is like a faint voice that always brings us order, directness, purpose. The other mind is a foreign installation. It brings us conflict, self-assertion, doubts, hopelessness." --Yaqui Shaman Don Juan
To come full circle, I am of the opinion that, as much self-dissolution as takes place, there is always going to be at least some sliver of a self there to tie the conscious experience to you, or your soul, or however you'd like to think of it. Very interesting thread topic.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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