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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy
#22039203 - 08/03/15 07:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Such concepts are short sighted in a philosophical context. Why?
Because in the middle of infinity it is still warm. In the middle of infinity things are still falling from the sky. In the middle of infinity complexity arises.
How is "this" possible?
I think the only two positions to take are confused or wrong.
What think you? Is there a third position?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy [Re: Rahz]
#22039375 - 08/03/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I dunno Rahz, when I look around I see plenty of order. Perhaps there is some sort of subtle ordering principle existing in tension with the entropy to which all physical systems are subject. And as hTx has pointed out in the past, complexity seems to be increasing and providing plenty of fuel for evolution. Perhaps there is a legitimate dynamic here.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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falcon



Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 23 hours, 35 minutes
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Re: The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy [Re: Rahz]
#22039480 - 08/03/15 08:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well the whole paper is a hoot, but this bit is particularly engaging.
"Modern society is getting more structured and more dynamic. On the other hand, ethical and moral deterioration is getting more pronounced in our present days. A formal presentation of an entropy theory to describe the ethical and moral decay of our times is considered. It is developed from an entropy point of view that relates optimal control theory to the Global Entropy, and thus represents a method to minimize its effect to our society. This theory has in addition to the practical applications, a philosophical foundation that has implications to the quality of life and the future of our planet. Experimental results substantiate this theory."
from here
PDF
I'd add amusing to confused and wrong.
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muckamuck
Stranger
Registered: 07/20/15
Posts: 187
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
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Re: The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy [Re: Rahz]
#22039779 - 08/03/15 08:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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What if the past and future move in opposite directions and regenerate each other? So instead of \ or / it could be X. When we eat food it gets decomposed and recomposed simultaneously so maybe the universe is eating us and extracting our nutrients.
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DisoRDeR
motional



Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
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Re: The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy [Re: muckamuck]
#22041693 - 08/04/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Such concepts are short sighted in a philosophical context. Why?
Because in the middle of infinity it is still warm. In the middle of infinity things are still falling from the sky. In the middle of infinity complexity arises.
How is "this" possible?
I think the only two positions to take are confused or wrong.
What think you? Is there a third position?
Aren't any scientifically-derived concepts rather dubious when taken in isolation and extrapolated beyond our observational limits? (i.e. extracting metaphysics from our physics)
Are you addressing metaphysics here? I can see some relevant application of thermodynamics to ethics, and perhaps some poetic congruence with aesthetics...
Confused and wrong seems to be evaluations of positions, not positions in themselves. Maybe they can be reduced, such that wrong is a subset of confused -- an unacknowledged confusion. Right would then be a type of confusion which has entangled both the original proponent and that which confirms certitude.
Aren't any relationships fair game for philosophical turd-polishing on the scale of the infinite?
note: I am confused
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy [Re: DisoRDeR]
#22042585 - 08/04/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Aren't any relationships fair game for philosophical turd-polishing on the scale of the infinite?
Yea sure, the topic just struck me in a certain way... Metaphysical only in that we perceive emotional states based on perceptions of the physical world. I think it's a common topic of inquiry, yet with only two positions, "wrong" being my guess about any answer but confused. Can't explain how the universe works? God. Science? Not yet. Alternative to delusional beliefs? Confused.
Falcon, amused is valid though not negating the confusion. Being confused doesn't necessarily indicate a painful urgency for resolution. Very interesting link you posted, thanks.
DQ, true there may be a physical explanation, or at least something understandable with the correct context (what it might be I don't know)... although I might take exception to the comment on evolution. The oldest and simplest life forms we can find are highly complex, and between that and non-life a huge missing link. Neither evolution nor creationism suffice to explain.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy [Re: Rahz]
#22044197 - 08/04/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Such concepts are short sighted in a philosophical context. Why?
Because in the middle of infinity it is still warm. In the middle of infinity things are still falling from the sky. In the middle of infinity complexity arises.
How is "this" possible?
I think the only two positions to take are confused or wrong.
What think you? Is there a third position?
I don't think you can apply the terms outside the subset of philosophy known as science. These are two concepts that do not have a non-scientific analog. Notions that entropy is akin to "disorder" and other intuitive terms are flat out wrong and misleading. Yet mystics take the these poetic interpretations of mathematical theories and conclude whatever they feel is right, or even worse - whatever they feel is true.
In short - don't worry about these words, you don't need them.
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