Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy
    #22039203 - 08/03/15 07:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Such concepts are short sighted in a philosophical context. Why?

Because in the middle of infinity it is still warm. In the middle of infinity things are still falling from the sky. In the middle of infinity complexity arises.

How is "this" possible?

I think the only two positions to take are confused or wrong.

What think you? Is there a third position?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDividedQuantumM
Outer Head
Male User Gallery

Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
Re: The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy [Re: Rahz]
    #22039375 - 08/03/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I dunno Rahz, when I look around I see plenty of order.  Perhaps there is some sort of subtle ordering principle existing in tension with the entropy to which all physical systems are subject.  And as hTx has pointed out in the past, complexity seems to be increasing and providing plenty of fuel for evolution.  Perhaps there is a legitimate dynamic here.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefalcon
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 8,005
Last seen: 23 hours, 35 minutes
Re: The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy [Re: Rahz]
    #22039480 - 08/03/15 08:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Well the whole paper is a hoot, but this bit is particularly engaging.

"Modern society is getting more structured and more
dynamic. On the other hand, ethical and moral
deterioration is getting more pronounced in our present
days. A formal presentation of an entropy theory to
describe the ethical and moral decay of our times is
considered. It is developed from an entropy point of
view that relates optimal control theory to the Global
Entropy, and thus represents a method to minimize its
effect to our society. This theory has in addition to the
practical applications, a philosophical foundation that
has implications to the quality of life and the future of
our planet. Experimental results substantiate this
theory." 

from here

PDF

I'd add amusing to confused and wrong.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinemuckamuck
Stranger
Registered: 07/20/15
Posts: 187
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy [Re: Rahz]
    #22039779 - 08/03/15 08:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

What if the past and future move in opposite directions and regenerate each other? So instead of \ or / it could be X. When we eat food it gets decomposed and recomposed simultaneously so maybe the universe is eating us and extracting our nutrients.


--------------------
:hank:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDisoRDeR
motional
 User Gallery


Registered: 08/29/02
Posts: 1,158
Loc: nonsensistan
Re: The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy [Re: muckamuck]
    #22041693 - 08/04/15 11:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Such concepts are short sighted in a philosophical context. Why?

Because in the middle of infinity it is still warm. In the middle of infinity things are still falling from the sky. In the middle of infinity complexity arises.

How is "this" possible?

I think the only two positions to take are confused or wrong.

What think you? Is there a third position?





Aren't any scientifically-derived concepts rather dubious when taken in isolation and extrapolated beyond our observational limits? (i.e. extracting metaphysics from our physics)

Are you addressing metaphysics here? I can see some relevant application of thermodynamics to ethics, and perhaps some poetic congruence with aesthetics...

Confused and wrong seems to be evaluations of positions, not positions in themselves. Maybe they can be reduced, such that wrong is a subset of confused -- an unacknowledged confusion. Right would then be a type of confusion which has entangled both the original proponent and that which confirms certitude.

Aren't any relationships fair game for philosophical turd-polishing on the scale of the infinite?

note: I am confused


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy [Re: DisoRDeR]
    #22042585 - 08/04/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Aren't any relationships fair game for philosophical turd-polishing on the scale of the infinite?




Yea sure, the topic just struck me in a certain way... Metaphysical only in that we perceive emotional states based on perceptions of the physical world. I think it's a common topic of inquiry, yet with only two positions, "wrong" being my guess about any answer but confused. Can't explain how the universe works? God. Science? Not yet. Alternative to delusional beliefs? Confused.

Falcon, amused is valid though not negating the confusion. Being confused doesn't necessarily indicate a painful urgency for resolution. Very interesting link you posted, thanks.

DQ, true there may be a physical explanation, or at least something understandable with the correct context (what it might be I don't know)... although I might take exception to the comment on evolution. The oldest and simplest life forms we can find are highly complex, and between that and non-life a huge missing link. Neither evolution nor creationism suffice to explain.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: The shortsightedness of thermodynamics and entropy in philosophy [Re: Rahz]
    #22044197 - 08/04/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Such concepts are short sighted in a philosophical context. Why?

Because in the middle of infinity it is still warm. In the middle of infinity things are still falling from the sky. In the middle of infinity complexity arises.

How is "this" possible?

I think the only two positions to take are confused or wrong.

What think you? Is there a third position?




I don't think you can apply the terms outside the subset of philosophy known as science.  These are two concepts that do not have a non-scientific analog.  Notions that entropy is akin to "disorder" and other intuitive terms are flat out wrong and misleading.  Yet mystics take the these poetic interpretations of mathematical theories and conclude whatever they feel is right, or even worse - whatever they feel is true.

In short - don't worry about these words, you don't need them.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Entropy, the Universe, and the Big Bang
( 1 2 all )
OneWhoHasSeen 2,901 31 12/16/05 05:29 AM
by Seuss
* A philosophy.
( 1 2 all )
Bernackums 2,057 20 09/23/07 09:08 AM
by dorkus
* Entropy, (dis)Order, and Abstraction
( 1 2 all )
trendalM 3,390 23 09/09/16 11:56 PM
by BrendanFlock
* Philosophy: Who needs it?
( 1 2 all )
Anonymous 3,880 24 05/27/08 06:51 AM
by zouden
* Bad Philosophy Is Inconsistent
( 1 2 3 4 all )
SkorpivoMusterion 8,041 72 02/16/06 07:20 PM
by SkorpivoMusterion
* I wrote a philosophy that explains the entire universe(and more) Hawkeye2 1,176 14 08/29/05 05:24 AM
by redgreenvines
* My Philosophy Paper mushiemountain 1,384 7 04/17/07 05:34 PM
by mushiemountain
* Philosophy is dead
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 all )
it stars saddam 10,847 128 08/02/08 05:29 PM
by Diploid

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
604 topic views. 1 members, 13 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.021 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 12 queries.