Home | Community | Message Board


Mushrooms.com
Please support our sponsors.

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Jump to first unread post. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Anonymous

What is your basis for ethics?
    #2203742 - 12/27/03 11:50 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

There is a lot of talk in this forum about what is 'right' and what is 'wrong'.

But most of the time no one mentions what foundation they use to determine such things.

So I am curious. Are most of us just prattling on about this or do we have some guidelines that have been thought through and arrived at our conclusions deliberately?

How do you determine what is right or wrong?


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleDoctorJ
Stranger
 Arcade Champion: Frogger

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,451
Loc: space
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: ]
    #2203750 - 12/27/03 11:59 AM (12 years, 11 months ago)

my ethics have always been based in emotional sensitivity to the pain of others, not in the hypothetical sense, but in the real sense.

like I dont think: "Saying 'Fuck You' to people hurts everyone's feelings"

instead, I realize that there are situations in which saying "fuck you" causes emotional distress and there are situations where it doesnt. And when I'm around people in specific, real life situations, I play it by ear. I'm sure there are situations and people that exist in a state in which NOT saying "fuck you" to them would be an insult.

anyway, thats what ethics is all about to me. sensitivity to the real life people around you.


--------------------
peace, pot, and microdot!


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,944
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: ]
    #2203754 - 12/27/03 12:06 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Much of what determines such IS pretty subjective. There probably ARE some universal rules, but not very many, but one of which I would assume to be: "Treat others as you would want to be treated", of course excepting the few folks out there who are, by our standards, mentally deranged being that they wish to be abused, beaten and hurt. So some common sense, as goes for everything, will obviously govern much of what is acceptable, at least, universally...
Generally speaking, imho, it boils down to: Actions which hurt yourself or others, and/or have malicious intent behind them, are generally "wrong".
Actions with intent of spreading positivity, beauty, and light in the world, are accepted as "right." Of course there are apathetic actions and neutral actions as well, which obviously would most likely be categorized in the "right" section.
But, again, this is only generally speaking. There are numerous ways it often get's very complicated. One person's hero can be another person's enemy. One person's victory can be another person's defeat. One persons' success can be another person's demise. One person's happiness can be another person's sadness. So like I said earlier--Only very few, IF any, can be considered universally applicable rules in determining what is "Right or Wrong".


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #2203763 - 12/27/03 12:12 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Isn't the "Golden Rule" the basis for ethics? Something I found:

The Universality of the Golden Rule in the World Religions

Christianity: All things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye so to them; for this is the law and the prophets.
Matthew 7:1

Confucianism: Do not do to others what you would not like yourself. Then there will be no resentment against you, either in the family or in the state.
Analects 12:2

Buddhism: Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful.
Udana-Varga 5,1

Hinduism: This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you.
Mahabharata 5,1517

Islam: No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.
Sunnah

Judaism: What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary.
Talmud, Shabbat 3id

Taoism: Regard your neighbor?s gain as your gain, and your neighbor?s loss as your own loss.
Tai Shang Kan Yin P?ien

Zoroastrianism: That nature alone is good which refrains from doing another whatsoever is not good for itself.
Dadisten-I-dinik, 94,5

http://www.teachingvalues.com/goldenrule.html


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,944
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: Frog]
    #2203768 - 12/27/03 12:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Hehehe, yep, thats exactly what I was trying to point out "Treat others as you wish to be treated", The Golden Rule indeed...now I'm gonna go take a Golden Shower....er.wait..no.


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: Frog]
    #2203784 - 12/27/03 12:33 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

THE categorical imperative as seen by kant was to base every action on the stipulation that you would have everyone acting in the same fashion. he also didn't want people using each other as means but as ends themselves.

but I don't really care about caterogical imperatives, my ethic is one of hedonism and elitism. fuck the rest of you drowning rats, I'm getting to that sweet sweet shore.


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: ]
    #2203804 - 12/27/03 12:50 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I think most of my ethics, if not all, come from the Golden Rule - to do unto others as I would have them do unto me.

I don't enjoy pain...so I will try not to cause it in others.

Seems fairly straightforward to me :wink:


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: Malachi]
    #2203822 - 12/27/03 01:01 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

But by your very pursuit, doesn't that make you a "drowning rat"?


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Anonymous

Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: trendal]
    #2203871 - 12/27/03 01:39 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Thanks Tren.

A lot of good answers, especially from Skorpivo and Frog.

But does that answer all the ethics questions? I think not.

Is is wrong to crash a stop sign if no one is around?

Is it bad to smoke pot?

Is suicide wrong?

If an intruder breaks in and tries to murder me and I have to kill him to stop him is that wrong?

How are we to treat people that don't follow the Golden Rule?

There are lots of instances where we might not hurt someone else but need a basis for calling an action 'right' or 'wrong'.

Of course you can wave these issues away by saying there is no 'right' or 'wrong' but that seems a little simplistic to me.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineFrog
Warrior
Female User Gallery

Registered: 10/22/03
Posts: 4,284
Loc: The Zero Point Field
Last seen: 3 years, 10 months
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: ]
    #2203896 - 12/27/03 01:59 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Mushrooms said:
Thanks Tren.

A lot of good answers, especially from Skorpivo and Frog.

But does that answer all the ethics questions? I think not.

Is is wrong to crash a stop sign if no one is around?

Is it bad to smoke pot?

Is suicide wrong?

If an intruder breaks in and tries to murder me and I have to kill him to stop him is that wrong?

How are we to treat people that don't follow the Golden Rule?

There are lots of instances where we might not hurt someone else but need a basis for calling an action 'right' or 'wrong'.

Of course you can wave these issues away by saying there is no 'right' or 'wrong' but that seems a little simplistic to me.




You must have your "school marm" cap on today.

Then, based on this last set of questions, I would have to say that ethics must come from inside. I will run a stop sign if no one is around, and it's late at night, even though it's wrong. But I won't murder anyone, even if I was assured I could get a way with it.

Ultimately, my bottom line is the "golden rule". I don't want to hurt anyone. I don't think running a stop sign in the middle of the night will hurt anyone, but murder would most assuredly hurt someone.

Now, I guess the next question is "why". Why have I internalized the golden rule. Hmmm.

I was discussing this with someone. He and I were both black sheep in our families. We both sort of came to be crusaders for the under-dog, so to speak. I hate injustice, and I hate seeing people get hurt, because I can emphasize with being victimized.

But I was also raised as a Catholic, which I'm sure must have some bearing on what I was taught. But that has more to do with sin, I think. Mortal sins (big ones) v. Venial sins (little ones). It all had to with getting into heaven.

I think for me it comes down an internalized set of principles, that are reflected in the golden rule.


--------------------
The day will come when, after harnessing the ether, the winds, the tides, gravitation, we shall harness for God the energies of love. And, on that day, for the second time in the history of the world, man will have discovered fire.  -Teilard


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineLearyfan
It's the psychedelic movement!
Male User Gallery

Registered: 04/20/01
Posts: 29,755
Loc: High pride!
Last seen: 6 hours, 59 minutes
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: ]
    #2203917 - 12/27/03 02:11 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I've come to the conclusion that everything and everyone are one being or entity.

If that's true, then everything I do to someone else, I do to myself.

I love myself, so therefore I should try my best to do loving things for everyone.

Therefore, I base my ethical standards on the idea that we're all one and that I should always try to do the most loving thing in any situation.




--------------------
--------------------------------


Mp3 of the month: The Loose Enz - The Black Door



Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: ]
    #2203931 - 12/27/03 02:16 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

I can only answer those questions by following my own ethics...

Is it wrong to go through a stop sign if no one is around? No, I don't think so...but if you DID end up hurting someone your action was wrong.

Which brings me to a point: I do not view any action that does not result in the harm of another to be wrong. The same action, however, if found to cause harm should be considered wrong (again, under my ethics).

Is it bad to smoke pot?
No, the only person you may be harming is yourself. There are specific circumstances, however, where it could be viewed as wrong. I would not smoke pot in a room with a small child or anyone who doesn't wish to be exposed to second-hand smoke.

Is suicide wrong?
This is a tough one...who are you hurting? I think you hurt more than just yourself with this action...in that there are most likely people who care deeply about you and hence will be "hurt" by your loss (and especially the manner of your loss). Again, if such a thing can be accomplished without hurt to anyone but the self...it is not wrong.

If an intruder breaks in and tries to murder me and I have to kill him to stop him is that wrong?
Most definately not. Self-defense is the exact opposite of "initiation of force". You have been forced into the situation, by the actions of another. They are attempting to hurt you and something must be done to avoid this. Personally I would try my hardest to avoid the outright killing of an attacker...but if it becomes necessary I do not think it wrong.

How do we treat people who don't follow the Golden Rule?
By living under the Golden Rule I would treat them the same as anyone who does follow the GR. However if the person wishes to harm me, I must defend myself (see above).

I do not think any case exists where no harm to others is found but there is a need to give the label "right" or "wrong".


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibletrendalM
point of inflection
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 19,376
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2203934 - 12/27/03 02:18 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

If that's true, then everything I do to someone else, I do to myself.

Even if we are not all "One"...I think that intentionally inflicting harm upon another will necessarily cause harm to the self in return. "What goes around comes around".


--------------------
You're here because you know something.
What you know you can't explain,
But you feel it;
You've felt it your entire life.
That there's something wrong with the world.
You don't know what it is, but it's there....
Like a splinter in your mind...
Driving you mad.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,944
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: ]
    #2203942 - 12/27/03 02:23 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Mr_Mushrooms said:

But does that answer all the ethics questions? I think not.

I was trying to point out that it boils down to whether the action causes harm in anyway shape or form; in judging it's ethical morality. I'll demonstrate what I mean in the following:

Is is wrong to crash a stop sign if no one is around?

It depends on what effects that causes, actions generally usually cause either positive effects or negative effects for the most part. Sometimes a lil of both. So if by crashing a stop sign gave you a pleasure of thrill, doing a reprived forbidden desire, despite the damage it does to your car, causes the effect of another person having to fix it and drive down out in the middle-of-nowhere, where the incident took place, and on the way, got into a fatal car accident and was killed by a drunk driver--then obviously it was a wrong action in the first place. This example may be a bit extreme, but the bottom line is this: If there was NO harmful effects by the cause of the action in hitting the round-hexagon red sign thingy on the road, then I would say that it was NOT a wrong or immorally ethical action.

So in other words, I believe that there is no absolute, and everything is relative. So we must judge according to the circumstances.


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineMalachi
stereotype

Registered: 06/19/02
Posts: 1,294
Loc: Around Minneapolis.
Last seen: 7 years, 5 months
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: Learyfan]
    #2203944 - 12/27/03 02:24 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:
I've come to the conclusion that everything and everyone are one being or entity.

If that's true, then everything I do to someone else, I do to myself.

I love myself, so therefore I should try my best to do loving things for everyone.

Therefore, I base my ethical standards on the idea that we're all one and that I should always try to do the most loving thing in any situation.


www.visionarylead.org/images/NDW-Opening.jpg">






monism takes away the possiblity of free will.  :shocked:


--------------------
The ultimate meaning of our being can only be fulfilled in the paradoxical leap beyond the tragic-demonic frustration. It is a leap from our side, but it is the self-surrendering presence of the Ground of Being from the other side.
- Paul Tillich


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: Frog]
    #2204122 - 12/27/03 03:46 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

The problem with the Golden Rule is that it doesn't account for masochists(people who like to be hurt).


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
OfflineSpecialEd
+ one

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 6,220
Loc: : Gringo
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2204166 - 12/27/03 04:15 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

The problem with the Golden Rule is that it doesn't account for masochists(people who like to be hurt).




Masochists enjoy physical pain. I'd say there is a difference between incurring physical pain and being hurt. I'm sure as well that masochists realize they aren't the norm and do not feel justified or compelled to causing harm to others because it complies with the golden rule and their kink.


--------------------
"Plus one upvote +1..."
--- //
-- :meff:
  /l_l\/
--\-/----


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Offlinefalcon
In the green

Registered: 04/01/02
Posts: 6,832
Last seen: 2 hours, 19 minutes
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: ]
    #2204310 - 12/27/03 06:27 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

How are we to treat people that don't follow the Golden Rule?

As you would want to be treated, if you didn't follow the Golden Rule. Of course that creates a whole new set of question, like, How hard do you want to get hit up side the head when you get out of line?.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Invisiblesilversoul7
Chill the FuckOut!
 User Gallery

Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: SpecialEd]
    #2204318 - 12/27/03 06:32 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

Another problem with the Golden Rule is that different people want to be treated differently. If you like conversation and socializing, then you might try to strike up a conversation with someone, in accordance with the Golden Rule. But what if that person is an introvert, and prefers to be left alone?


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
Livin in theTwilight Zone...
 User Gallery

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 9,944
Loc: You can't spell fungus wi...
Re: What is your basis for ethics? [Re: silversoul7]
    #2204456 - 12/27/03 08:14 PM (12 years, 11 months ago)

of course there will always be exceptions to just about any damn rule.


--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


Post Extras: Print Post  Remind Me! Notify Moderator
Jump to top. Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The damaging side of compassion....
SneezingPenis
1,056 8 03/01/07 01:09 AM
by sadspacemonkey
* Can compassion undermine others' self-actualization?
( 1 2 all )
Veritas 3,054 30 03/31/07 07:22 PM
by Veritas
* Compassion
( 1 2 all )
allmakescombined 2,120 24 10/06/04 05:59 PM
by Moonshoe
* Compassion
( 1 2 3 all )
Positronius 3,180 47 06/19/04 10:59 AM
by Moonshoe
* Ethics
( 1 2 all )
daimyo 2,347 23 03/24/06 11:30 PM
by Corporal Kielbasa
* Of Ethics FreeUrThoughts 798 3 03/31/07 01:31 AM
by MarkostheGnostic
* Individual ethics Lion 1,277 17 03/25/08 05:06 PM
by publicenemy1
* Compassion SkorpivoMusterion 492 1 10/05/04 05:09 PM
by deff

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, CosmicJoke, Diploid, Jokeshopbeard, DividedQuantum
2,321 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 5 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Toggle Favorite | Print Topic | Stats ]
Search this thread:
Kratom Eye
Please support our sponsors.

Copyright 1997-2016 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.101 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 16 queries.