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Offlinemuckamuck
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Universal language?
    #22035428 - 08/02/15 09:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Characteristica_universalis

Does anyone here think something like this could be possible? If all language and physics and psychology and mathematics were overlayed would there be a common set of principles true for all of them, like a universal set or language?


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Offlinemuckamuck
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Re: Universal language? [Re: muckamuck]
    #22036054 - 08/03/15 12:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

For example a day has the properties of its season and a season has the properties of its planet etc, so its no coincidence we get night and day, winter and summer, dead and alive, 0 and 1, but you can keep dividing into night dawn day dusk, wnter spring summer autumn, dead born alive dying, 00 01 11 10 . Different subjects but they ultimately all belong to the solar system so they should all reflect the same basic qualities of the solar system at some level.

The diagram on that wiki works out like
Fire (alive and dying) Air (dying and dead) Water (dead and born) Earth (born and alive)

so im wondering if there could be more to the classical elements as a way of describing the basic units of change


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InvisibleKurt
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Registered: 11/26/14
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Re: Universal language? [Re: muckamuck]
    #22036127 - 08/03/15 12:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

This sounds interesting, but it's hard to grasp. Would like to hear more. The presocratics are pretty interesting on the classic elements.


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Offlinemuckamuck
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Re: Universal language? [Re: Kurt]
    #22036196 - 08/03/15 01:50 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, I'm saying that we belong to a system inside of a system and so on into eternity. We also create systems, but, according to how I understand the reflection priciple, each new moment is an update of the previous one and will inherit some of its features. So if we go deep enough there should be a common ancestor for all reality, or at least for this galaxy and that this ancestor would be like a grid for all future generations, like a logical system all forms of sublogic must accord with.

I think the classical elements may be desribing common fundamental processes, not substance.


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Offlinemuckamuck
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Re: Universal language? [Re: muckamuck]
    #22036292 - 08/03/15 03:25 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Like how you can change the order of words in a paragraph to make a new paragraph without actually changing the words, if you change the order of letters it makes new words and new paragraphs without changing the letters, and if you change the letters it creates new words and new paragraphs.

I see a heirarchy iof logic there. The laws we can observe in particular things must be contingent on more universal things, so they are not arbitrary and we should be able to compare the sciences and extract a common thread linking all of them.


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Universal language? [Re: muckamuck] * 1
    #22036766 - 08/03/15 09:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)



"To view the world sub specie aeterni is to view it as a whole—a limited whole. Feeling the world as a limited whole—it is this that is mystical."

Ludwig Wittgenstein

There is the so called "unity of analogy" - being, which is what the presocratics ostensibly tried to speak directly to, and clearly not just mistakenly. (I think if anything, our technical analyses of substance will be proven mistaken, and missapropriated.)

The classical elements could have been substances and processes, and our physical world view, (if it could gain lucidity to its practical theoretic basis) would seem to describe something close to process.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Universal language? [Re: Kurt]
    #22036800 - 08/03/15 09:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kurt said:
(I think if anything, our technical analyses of substance will be proven mistaken, and missapropriated.)

The classical elements could have been substances and processes, and our physical world view, (if it could gain lucidity to its practical theoretic basis) would seem to describe something close to process.




Couldn't agree more. Well said. :thumbup:


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InvisibleKurt
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Re: Universal language? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22037005 - 08/03/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

What do you think the prospects of a universal language would be DQ?

Seems like languages need corresponding parts and wholes to be intelligible, yet so often we end up jumping through hoops for this idea.

Plato was a gymnast, I remember reading... Also a wrastler. :evil:


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Universal language? [Re: Kurt]
    #22037039 - 08/03/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Well Leibniz was certainly as busy fellow, wasn't he?  To answer your question, I'm really not sure how it could work, but I assume that, were something to come about, it would have to involve telepathy.  I'm not going to comment on the reality or lack thereof of telepathy, as that is for another thread.  But if humans have a latent faculty for it already, or whether it would have to evolve into existence, I think definitely it would be necessary to couch a universal communication system.  Perhaps this would also, on a larger level, involve collective consciousness in general.


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OfflineAjahn Don
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Re: Universal language? [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #22038569 - 08/03/15 05:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It's been done.

Esperanto (/ˌɛspəˈraːntoʊ/;[4] [espeˈranto] About this sound listen (help·info)) is a constructed international auxiliary language. It is the most widely spoken constructed language in the world.[5]

Source: Wiki

I would have thought Borg would be more widely spoken, but I guess not.


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Universal language? [Re: muckamuck]
    #22039115 - 08/03/15 07:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Smells like a heaping pile a shit.  It's a cool idea though.  I don't have a good enough understanding of the subject matter to have a real opinion on it though.


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Offlinemuckamuck
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Re: Universal language? [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #22039867 - 08/03/15 09:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The closest we could get would have to be binary code, which we're all already using now anyway :ooo:

"To view the world sub specie aeterni is to view it as a whole—a limited whole. Feeling the world as a limited whole—it is this that is mystical."

This is great btw, but I still think leibniz was onto something, there was just no way to see how it would eventually be applied.



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Edited by muckamuck (08/03/15 10:24 PM)


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Offlinemuckamuck
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Re: Universal language? [Re: muckamuck]
    #22040516 - 08/04/15 02:24 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Also

1 = 0 permutations
2 = 2
3 = 6

(A = A
AB = AB, BA
ABC = ABC, BCA, CAB, BAC, ACB, CBA)

The more universal a language becomes the less it actually says... all the information becomes potential...

A = everything potentially, nothing actually
AB = everything potentially except A, nothing actually except AB and BA
ABC = everything potentially except A, AB, BA, nothing actually except ABC, BCA, CAB, BAC, ACB, CBA

lol so the more complete a language is for describing one particular thing, the less potential it has for more general things? ... and the more general the less complete?


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InvisibleCognitive_Shift
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Re: Universal language? [Re: muckamuck]
    #22041277 - 08/04/15 09:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The only universal language I can think of is a "yes" or "no" language like binary 1 or 0 or the way genes are turned on or off.


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