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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


Registered: 06/08/15
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Loc: USA
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Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation *DELETED*
#22034629 - 08/02/15 05:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by RenegadeBlueReason for deletion: Wrong
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22034648 - 08/02/15 05:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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IMO the benefits of adding coffee to the sub are minimal and you'll do just fine with the basic coir/verm/gypsum mix. CLEAN spawn and good genetics is a lot more important than using additives in your bulk substrate, in terms of fruiting potential.
Edited by Psilosoulful (08/02/15 06:01 PM)
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Darkhome
•Shaman•N•Training•



Registered: 07/10/15
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22034654 - 08/02/15 06:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I left out the coffee... I'm relatively new to bulk myself...I worried it might cause contams, but I don't drink coffee either... CV...will do fine by themselves...I did start adding Gypsum...so CVG Just my newb opinion
-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” ~Terence McKenna~ "NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.
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Psilosoulful

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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Darkhome]
#22034668 - 08/02/15 06:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you want to get the most out of your bulk subs, look into mixing in some hpoo, as it is the optimal mushroom substrate. Make sure to ALWAYS properly pasteurize at 140-160f for 1 hour when adding manure. A good ratio is 40% coir, 40% hpoo, 15% verm, and 5% gypsum.
Edited by Psilosoulful (08/02/15 06:06 PM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22034680 - 08/02/15 06:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilosoulful said: If you want to get the most out of your bulk subs, look into mixing in some hpoo, as it is the optimal mushroom substrate.
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


Registered: 06/08/15
Posts: 222
Loc: USA
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22034827 - 08/02/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:02 AM)
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: cronicr]
#22034833 - 08/02/15 06:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
Quote:
Psilosoulful said: If you want to get the most out of your bulk subs, look into mixing in some hpoo, as it is the optimal mushroom substrate.

I've been deceived then!!! I really thought hpoo was > coir. Oh well.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22034839 - 08/02/15 06:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i've seen no evidence to support anybody saying horse manure is better then coir other then price
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22034861 - 08/02/15 06:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
RenegadeBlue said:
Quote:
Psilosoulful said: IMO the benefits of adding coffee to the sub are minimal and you'll do just fine with the basic coir/verm/gypsum mix. CLEAN spawn and good genetics is a lot more important than using additives in your bulk substrate, in terms of fruiting potential.
Thanks man. One more quick question here. So I'm going to be moving 20 BRF cakes into 2 minimonos. I was going to grind them up with a cheese grater as I've heard this is the best method. When you say clean spawn, is this just spawn that is free of any contams? Or is there some additional steps that I should take before adding my spawn to my substrate to make sure it is clean? Thanks again!
Yes, make sure it's free of contams by birthing the cakes and inspecting them. Any weird discolorations should be a red flag. It should also smell like fresh mushies too, that's a good sign. Did you inoculate those cakes with an MS syringe, because syringes are never 100% sterile. If you were to start those spores on agar then you'd have a better chance at 100% clean spawn. Not to worry tho, many cultivators fruit through most contams with no problems. Any pics btw?
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Psilosoulful

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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: cronicr]
#22034866 - 08/02/15 06:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: i've seen no evidence to support anybody saying horse manure is better then coir other then price
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Psilosoulful] 1
#22034892 - 08/02/15 07:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i love my manure subs but even with isolates i can't see any diff from cow manure to horse manure to coir to straw other then straw puts out some pretty dam big fruits but yield wise the numbers were all pretty dam close, i think texture and moisture content play a bigger role myself
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


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Posts: 222
Loc: USA
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22034949 - 08/02/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:03 AM)
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Psilosoulful

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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22035011 - 08/02/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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If your cakes are fully colonized with no visible contams, then you shouldn't have any problems using them in your bulk substrate. The environment where you mix up the spawn and bulk sub doesn't need to be sterile, almost all cultivators mix their tubs in open air with no problems (just make sure your cakes are 100% colonized). Your bulk mix itself should be pasteurized properly before using with your spawn. I follow Frank Horrigan's Pasteurization tek, and it's super easy! http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17246844#17246844
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22035103 - 08/02/15 08:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:04 AM)
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Psilosoulful

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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22035265 - 08/02/15 08:48 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by Psilosoulful (08/02/15 08:48 PM)
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22035957 - 08/02/15 11:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Whatever the benefits of coffee may be, it's a trichsplosion waiting to happen if you don't prep it properly and inoculate it well. Unless your tub is expendable (which given that you're using cakes, it probably isn't) I wouldn't try it.
Spongiform likes adding coffee grounds to his PF cakes, and he's the God of PF tek. Seems like a safer place to add it to me.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
Edited by Machiavelliavore (08/02/15 11:43 PM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: cronicr]
#22036027 - 08/03/15 12:12 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: i love my manure subs but even with isolates i can't see any diff from cow manure to horse manure to coir to straw other then straw puts out some pretty dam big fruits but yield wise the numbers were all pretty dam close, i think texture and moisture content play a bigger role myself
I agree. Even tho I find a diverse substrate makes for a healthy nice looking sub, it usually doesn't really translate into higher yields or nothing. I have a clone that puts out 175% BE first flush on coir just fine.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22036031 - 08/03/15 12:14 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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if there really was a difference you'd be able to find a thread with a side by side that shows it.
I think I like it more than the mushrooms do, a good mix looks pretty fluffy and sweet to colonize! if i didnt know where it came from i'd chow down some myself
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


Registered: 06/08/15
Posts: 222
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Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:04 AM)
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Darkhome
•Shaman•N•Training•



Registered: 07/10/15
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22036499 - 08/03/15 06:41 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You can fruit them without a casing...I just did a 27q Mini-Mono... If you decide to case...this is easiest IMO
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18880716
They do better with a casing...if you are doing PE...definitely case
-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” ~Terence McKenna~ "NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.
Edited by Darkhome (08/03/15 06:42 AM)
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22036540 - 08/03/15 07:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Personally I'd go ahead and case it with coir + verm. No more difficult than preparing the bulk substrate, unlike the large quantities of other materials that you don't need a peat casing would require. It's not quite as good, but I think most would agree it's better than not casing. You'd probably spend the casing colonization time consolidating anyway.
Just save a 1-1.5 quarts of 80/20 sub in the fridge, add another 1qt of hydrated verm to it, mix, and case both tubs. Some don't even both er upping the verm. It definitely won't be as beneficial with as with grais through, so don't sweat it if you skip out.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


Registered: 06/08/15
Posts: 222
Loc: USA
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Darkhome]
#22036686 - 08/03/15 08:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:05 AM)
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7,205
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22036758 - 08/03/15 09:21 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes, you will be fine mixing different strains, the strongest mycelium will grow over the weaker one and only one strain will produce fruits.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22036896 - 08/03/15 10:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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lol, no.
they're all cubes, they'll grow together. why do people keep saying this shit nowadays? who started it?
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: spacechildo]
#22036959 - 08/03/15 10:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Soo you're saying that 3 different varieties can all grow together in the same tub? Interesting..
Edited by Psilosoulful (08/03/15 10:24 AM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22037024 - 08/03/15 10:37 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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of course, they're all cubes. what happened when you mixed varieties, and how could you tell 1 was taking over the tub?
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: spacechildo]
#22037062 - 08/03/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I actually haven't mixed varieties before, but I've heard TC's say that the stronger mycelium will grow faster than the others in the same tub and one type of variety will be expressed. But, a half PE/ golden teacher tub would be interesting tho.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22037083 - 08/03/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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The thing is that the agressive mycelium will be present in both strains and when two different sets meet they may decided to fruit together in concert. So it won't even be as clear as you think, some will fruit together and some won't.
Hell some of them may fuse together and exchange information. Its all the same species. When you have a few million strains in a tub, lots can happen.
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: spacechildo]
#22037088 - 08/03/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:06 AM)
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22037121 - 08/03/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
RenegadeBlue said:
Quote:
spacechildo said: lol, no.
they're all cubes, they'll grow together. why do people keep saying this shit nowadays? who started it?
Haha awesome. Could be a pretty cool looking tub then once it starts fruiting. I'll have to post some pics of what happens.
For sure!
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


Registered: 06/08/15
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Loc: USA
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22037122 - 08/03/15 11:00 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:08 AM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22037153 - 08/03/15 11:07 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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With ms its still a crapshoot. So yields will be unpredictable with it. Some people are doing controlled crosses to get specific results. If you look at the tubs in my sig they are a cross that produces luecistic fruits with brown spores. I am almost done stabilizing them.
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Darkhome
•Shaman•N•Training•



Registered: 07/10/15
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Loc: United States
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22037174 - 08/03/15 11:14 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: With ms its still a crapshoot. So yields will be unpredictable with it. Some people are doing controlled crosses to get specific results. If you look at the tubs in my sig they are a cross that produces luecistic fruits with brown spores. I am almost done stabilizing them.
That's freaking awesome!!! The cross in the tubs in your sig...I mean
-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” ~Terence McKenna~ "NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.
Edited by Darkhome (08/03/15 11:15 AM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22037273 - 08/03/15 11:42 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
RenegadeBlue said: Is there also a chance of reduced yield from using multiple strains because they are all going to be duking it out to take over the sub?
2 grain jars of cubensis with different labels on them wont duke it out any more then 2 grain jars marked "cambodian" will. both are still cubes.
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


Registered: 06/08/15
Posts: 222
Loc: USA
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: spacechildo]
#22037667 - 08/03/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:08 AM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22037697 - 08/03/15 01:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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dont fan a mono. maybe if you just misted heavily but..
theset and forget is for when you have a mono perfectly dialed in. on your way to figuring out wwhat dialed in is like in your conditions you may have to mist a tub a cpl times if you had too much fae going and it started drying.
a casing layer allows you to pump up the fae without drying the sub out.
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


Registered: 06/08/15
Posts: 222
Loc: USA
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: spacechildo]
#22037777 - 08/03/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:09 AM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22037786 - 08/03/15 01:43 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Never mist walls mist the sub. The sub needs the water, the walls don't care either way.
High 90's for RH is only needed in the microclimate at the substrate surface. Forget the other bs you read.
You introduce a million contams when you spawned it. Spawn run and fruiting are not sterile processes.
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


Registered: 06/08/15
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22037847 - 08/03/15 02:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:11 AM)
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22037863 - 08/03/15 02:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Its gonna depend a lot on how you dial it in, how thick a sub you use, if you case, etc. I have never once fanned a mono. I do mist if needed. What you should do is start a grow log and post pics daily. People can then tell you what you need to work on.
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


Registered: 06/08/15
Posts: 222
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22037872 - 08/03/15 02:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:17 AM)
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up



Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: spacechildo]
#22037903 - 08/03/15 02:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i really dont think frank fans his monos 3 times a day.. he loves the set n forget.
yeah just post pics and we'll help along the way!
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RenegadeBlue
Gourmet


Registered: 06/08/15
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: spacechildo]
#22037971 - 08/03/15 02:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Edited by RenegadeBlue (09/15/16 06:18 AM)
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Question Around Bulk Substrate Preparation [Re: RenegadeBlue]
#22038003 - 08/03/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
RenegadeBlue said: You guys are awesome.
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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