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 GabbaDj
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Registered: 04/08/01
Posts: 19,682
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 Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy 
#2199365 - 12/24/03 08:02 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is NOT good news....
Bovine Disease Surfaces in U.S.
Holstein in Washington state may be the nation's first case of 'mad cow' illness. Officials don't know whether its meat was sold as food.
By Aaron Zitner, Times Staff Writer
WASHINGTON ? A cow slaughtered in Washington state has tested positive for "mad cow" disease, marking the first apparent incidence of the degenerative brain illness in the United States, and federal officials were working Tuesday night to determine whether meat from the animal had entered the food supply.
Agriculture Secretary Ann M. Veneman said the animal had been traced to a farm in Mabton, Wash., near Yakima, and that the farm had been quarantined. Although the disease has been linked only to a single animal, Veneman said it was too early to say whether it was an isolated incident.
The announcement caused immediate economic damage to the U.S. beef industry as Japan, the largest overseas purchaser of American beef, temporarily banned U.S. imports.
Eating beef contaminated with "mad cow" disease has been linked to an always-fatal human illness called variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, which has struck at least 129 people in Britain and 10 people in other nations since 1995.
"Despite this finding, we remain confident in our food supply," Veneman told a news conference. The risk to human health was "extremely low," she said.
Agriculture Department officials said the animal, a Holstein that had ended its productive life as a dairy cow, was slaughtered Dec. 9. It was flagged as a "downer" animal, meaning that it was unable to walk. A federal surveillance program for "mad cow" disease mandates that such animals be segregated for special treatment as potentially ill.
The spinal cord and brain, which are thought to harbor the infectious agent that causes the disease, were sent to a rendering plant rather than into the food supply. Samples were taken for testing.
But the tests suggesting that the animal had "mad cow" disease did not come back until Monday and Tuesday. Meanwhile, the carcass had been sent to a deboning facility and by Dec. 11 had gone to two other plants for further processing.
Agriculture officials said they presumed the meat was intended for human consumption.
Elsa Murano, undersecretary for food safety at the Agriculture Department, said it was possible that the meat had already made it to grocery stores.
"That is what we are still trying to investigate," she said in a telephone interview. "We should get some answers pretty soon?. A lot of times these types of products are frozen. They may have been made into patties and frozen. I would rather not speculate."
She also said the risk to the public is low because the brain and spinal material had not entered the food supply. The muscle meat that is used for steaks and hamburgers has "virtually no risk" of carrying the infectious agent, she said.
Agriculture officials will attempt to track the origins of the diseased animal and find others from the same parents, Murano said. Because the disease has most commonly been spread when bone meal made from infected animals is fed to other animals, they will also look at what food was given to the diseased animal and to its herdmates on all farms where it lived.
In addition to spreading through feed, the disease can be transferred from cow to calf, according to some scientists, and it is thought to appear spontaneously on rare occasions in cattle and other animals.
Veneman said the appearance of the disease, known scientifically as bovine spongiform encephalopathy, or BSE, was confirmed by two tests at an Agriculture Department lab in Iowa. Those tests are considered the "gold standard" for detection of the disease, she said. Nonetheless, samples were on their way by military jet to Britain for confirming tests at a laboratory that specializes in animal diseases. Those tests could take three to five days.
Veneman said she had talked to Tom Ridge, secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, adding, "I would emphasize that, based on the information available, this incident is not terrorist-related."
She also urged Americans to make no changes in their holiday menus. "I plan to serve beef for my Christmas dinner," she said.
Agriculture officials said detection of the diseased animal, as well as segregation of its spinal and brain matter, showed that federal surveillance systems are effective.
Officials also said they were confident that any outbreak of the disease would not spread, due to a 1997 ban on cattle feed that contains most proteins from mammals. Lack of a similar ban is considered a prime reason the disease spread through Britain in the 1980s and '90s, eventually prompting the destruction of 3.7 million cattle. The U.S. banned imports of cattle and beef products from countries with "mad cow" disease beginning in 1989.
George M. Gray, director of Harvard University's Center for Risk Analysis, said he also believed that the feed ban would limit any spread of the disease in the United States. He said the center conducted a study considering the effects of as many as 500 infected cattle reaching the United States. It concluded that the disease would choke itself off and not spread widely, even if the federal rules for safe animal handling were followed imperfectly.
However, Gray said his group could not determine how many people might contract the human variant of the disease from eating the infected animals.
"The finding of this one animal is clearly a cause for concern, but in and of itself it's not something to raise a major alarm about," he said.
An appearance of the disease could raise new concerns about the consumption of meat from "downer" animals. Just last week, the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals revived a lawsuit from an animal rights group that claims the government's policy on the animals does not do enough to protect consumers from "mad cow" disease.
The court, in a 2-1 ruling, said the plaintiff had "successfully alleged a credible threat of harm from downed cattle."
The "mad cow" incident could also raise new concerns about a practice called advanced meat recovery, in which machinery scrapes or presses edible tissue away from the bone. A 2002 survey by the Agriculture Department of facilities using the technique found that about 35% of the meat taken this way improperly contained spinal cord tissue or other material from the central nervous system. In March, the Agriculture Department began monitoring the technique more aggressively.
At the National Cattlemen's Beef Assn., chief executive Terry Stokes said demand for beef remained strong in Canada after a single case of "mad cow" disease was discovered there in May. He said he expected that U.S. consumers would show the same calm response.
However, several nations reacted quickly to Tuesday's news. In addition to Japan, South Korea announced it was halting customs inspections of U.S. beef imports ? a step tantamount to a ban ? and suspended sales of U.S. beef already in markets.
Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand and Taiwan also announced suspensions of U.S. beef imports, and Australia said it temporarily would hold U.S. beef imports at its border.
Japanese imports of U.S. beef totaled $842 million in 2002, according to the U.S. Meat Export Federation. The United States exports about 10% of its beef, and the loss of any foreign markets would create a glut in U.S. meat supplies.
California exports about $150 million annually in beef and beef products.
U.S. investors reacted quickly to the news, and shares of fast-food companies fell in after-hours trading Tuesday. Shares of McDonald's Corp., the largest hamburger purveyor, slid more than 3% on the news after closing up 12 cents at $25.28 on the New York Stock Exchange.
In a statement Tuesday night, McDonald's spokeswoman Lisa Howard said the company's meat supply had no connection to processors involved in the "mad cow" case.
San Diego-based Jack in the Box Inc. also said it had no connection to the supplier involved in the Washington state case.
CKE Restaurants Inc., the Santa Barbara-based owner of the Carl's Jr. and Hardee's chains, said it was contacting its vendors. "We're pretty sure they're not involved, but we're still checking into it," said CKE spokeswoman Christie Cooney.
The U.S. cattle industry is having one of its most profitable years, thanks to popular high-protein diets. Still, livestock analysts say, a single U.S. case of the disease could drive cattle prices sharply lower for days at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, where futures contracts establish prices for U.S. cattle.
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GabbaDj
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 MAIA
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: GabbaDj]
#2199442 - 12/24/03 09:17 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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From http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs180/en/
Quote:
Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease
Fact sheet No. 180
Revised November 2002
Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD) is a rare and fatal human neurodegenerative condition. As with Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, vCJD is classified as a Transmissible Spongiform Encephalopathy (TSE) because of characteristic spongy degeneration of the brain and its ability to be transmitted. vCJD is a new disease that was first described in March 1996.
Before the identification of vCJD, CJD was recognized to exist in only three forms. Sporadic cases, which have an unknown cause and occur throughout the world at the rate of about one per million people, account for 85?90% of CJD cases. Familial cases are associated with a gene mutation and make up 5?10% of all CJD cases. Iatrogenic cases result from the accidental transmission of the causative agent via contaminated surgical equipment or as a result of cornea or dura mater transplants or the administration of human-derived pituitary growth hormones. Less than 5% of CJD cases are iatrogenic.
In contrast to the traditional forms of CJD, vCJD has affected younger patients (average age 29 years, as opposed to 65 years), has a relatively longer duration of illness (median of 14 months as opposed to 4.5 months) and is strongly linked to exposure, probably through food, to a TSE of cattle called Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE).
Total cases
From October 1996 to November 2002, 129 cases of vCJD have been reported in the United Kingdom (UK), six in France and one each in Canada, Ireland, Italy and the United States of America. Insufficient information is available at present to make any well-founded prediction about the future number of vCJD cases.
Epidemiology
* The first person to develop symptoms of what turned out to be vCJD became ill in January 1994. Most people who have developed vCJD have lived in the UK. Some of the patients had been long-standing residents in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland.
* As of early November 2002, the CJD surveillance unit for the UK reported 129 cases of vCJD, including 93 confirmed and 24 probable cases. In addition, there are 12 cases where vCJD is strongly suspected, but the diagnosis has not yet been definitively confirmed by post mortem analysis.
* Some of these patients have donated blood. However, to date vCJD has never been known to have developed in a recipient of this blood; study of possible transmission through blood transfusion continues. The UK no longer sources plasma from its inhabitants, and as a further precautionary measure, has instituted leukocyte reduction (removal of white blood cells) from blood transfusions. Some countries have prohibited donations of blood from persons who have resided in countries with higher risk of BSE. WHO cautions that donor restrictions such as these may not improve safety in some countries, particularly those still unable to institute measures against known hazards such as HIV, HBV and HCV.
Clinical features
Early in the illness, patients usually experience psychiatric symptoms, which most commonly take the form of depression or, less often, a schizophrenia-like psychosis. Unusual sensory symptoms, such as "stickiness" of the skin, have been experienced by half of the cases early in the illness. Neurological signs, including unsteadiness, difficulty walking and involuntary movements, develop as the illness progresses and, by the time of death, patients become completely immobile and mute.
Diagnosis
* The clinical presentation, progressive nature of the disease and failure to find any other diagnosis are the hallmarks of vCJD.
* There are no available, completely reliable diagnostic tests for use before the onset of clinical symptoms. However, magnetic resonance scans, tonsillar biopsy and cerebrospinal fluid tests are useful diagnostic tests.
* The brainwave pattern observed during an electroencephalogram was abnormal in most of the vCJD patients, but the wave forms characteristic of sporadic CJD do not occur.
* Currently the diagnosis of vCJD can only be confirmed following pathological examination of the brain. Characteristically, multiple microscopic and abnormal aggregates encircled by holes are seen, resulting in a daisy-like appearance described by the term "florid plaques".
Probable cause
* vCJD is strongly linked with exposure to the BSE agent. BSE is a TSE affecting cattle and was first reported in the UK in 1986. Since that year, about 181 376 cases have been reported in the UK. The number of reports of BSE in the UK began to decline in 1992 and has continuously declined year by year since then. In 2002, only 755 cases were reported in the UK; 891 from the 21 other countries reporting BSE cases.
* The most likely route of exposure was through bovine-based food, although infectivity is mainly found in the brain and spinal cord of clinically ill animals over two years of age.
* Since 1989, when the first BSE case was reported outside the UK, relatively small numbers of BSE cases (in total 3679) have also been reported in native cattle in Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg, Netherlands, Poland, Portugal, Slovakia, Spain and Switzerland. However, all but 206 cases have been reported in six countries ? France, Germany, Ireland, Portugal, Spain and Switzerland. Since the introduction of monitoring programmes to detect BSE in dead and slaughtered cattle, 12 countries have found their first native case (Austria, Czech Republic, Finland, Germany, Greece, Israel, Italy, Japan, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain).
* Small numbers of cases have also been reported in Canada, the Falkland Islands (Islas Malvinas) and Oman, but solely in animals imported from the UK. The International Office for Epizootic Diseases (OIE) reports these cases on their web site: www.oie.int
* The nature of the TSE agent is being investigated and is still a matter of debate. According to the prion theory, the agent is composed largely, if not entirely, of a self-replicating protein, referred to as a prion. Another theory argues that the agent is virus-like and possesses nucleic acids which carry genetic information. Although strong evidence collected over the past decade supports the prion theory, the ability of the TSE agent to form multiple strains is more easily explained by a virus-like agent.
Evidence of vCJD-BSE link
* The hypothesis of a link between vCJD and BSE was first raised because of the association of these two TSEs in time and place. More recent evidence supporting a link, includes identification of pathological features similar to vCJD in brains of macaque monkeys inoculated with BSE. A vCJD-BSE link is further supported by the demonstration that vCJD is associated with a molecular marker that distinguishes it from other forms of CJD and which resembles that seen in BSE transmitted to a number of other species. Studies of the distribution of the infectious agent in the brains of mice artificially infected with tissues from humans with vCJD and cows with BSE showed nearly identical patterns.
* The most recent and powerful evidence comes from studies showing that the transmission characteristics of BSE and vCJD in laboratory mice are almost identical, strongly indicating that they are due to the same causative agent.
* Intensive surveillance in 17 European countries has confirmed the high incidence of vCJD in the UK, the country with the largest potential exposure to BSE. France (with six reported cases) imported relatively large quantities of cattle products from the UK. The case in Ireland lived in the UK. Canada and the United States of America (all with extremely low potential exposure) have confirmed reports of vCJD attributed to exposures that occurred when the case lived in the UK. The Italian case did not live in the UK.
* For the final opinion of the European Union's Scientific Steering Committee on the Geographic Risk of BSE, please see:europa.eu.int/comm/food/fs/sc/ssc/out249
* In conclusion, the most likely cause of vCJD is exposure to the BSE agent, most plausibly due to dietary contamination by affected bovine central nervous system tissue.
Other human TSEs
Other human TSEs include kuru in Papua New Guinea, which is believed to be transmitted in the course of funerary rituals. During these rituals, family members who were preparing the body for burial were exposed, or may even have consumed the brain tissues of people who had died from kuru. Gerstmann-Str?ussler-Schenker (GSS) syndrome (occurring in persons with an apparent hereditary predisposition) and fatal insomnia (which occurs in familial and sporadic forms) are the other known human TSEs. CJD is the most common of all the human TSEs and is the disease most commonly mistaken for vCJD.
Measures taken to protect public health
Due to strong suspicions of a linkage between vCJD and BSE, the British government made BSE a notifiable disease in June 1988. Shortly afterwards, a statutory ban on the feeding of protein derived from ruminants (e.g. cattle, sheep and goats) to any ruminant was introduced. The use in the food chain of bovine offals considered to pose a potential risk to humans was also banned in the UK in 1989. The list of banned bovine offals was revised and expanded on several occasions as new information became available. In 1994, the EU banned mammalian MBM to ruminants, however, the measures taken, the date of implementation and the extent of enforcement vary from country to country. In 2001, because of the continued risk from cross contamination, the EU introduced a total feed ban (e.g. ban on feeding MBM to all farm animals).
WHO involvement
* Since 1991, WHO has convened 11 scientific consultations on issues related to animal and human TSEs. These meetings have made wide-ranging recommendations aimed at protecting human and animal health.
* In 2001, WHO, FAO and OIE jointly convened a Technical Consultation on BSE: Public Health, Animal Health and Trade.
* As exposure to the BSE agent may extend to populations outside Western Europe, it was recommended that to ascertain the number and distribution of any future cases, global surveillance of CJD and its variants would be required. From 1997?2000, WHO held a series of training courses worldwide, particularly in developing countries, in order to help individual countries establish national surveillance of CJD and its variants. The first workshop, for West African countries, was held in Dakar, Senegal in June 1997. Similar workshops were held in Bangkok for South-east Asian countries (October 1997), in Cairo for North African countries (February 1998) and in China for countries of the Western Pacific (July 1999) and for Eastern and Central European countries in May 2000.
* WHO has revised its training guidelines for surveillance and provides a globally accepted case definition for all forms of human TSEs.
WHO recommendations
To protect human health, WHO has also recommended the following:
* The clinical presentation, progressive nature of the disease and failure to find any other diagnosis are the hallmarks of vCJD.
* There are no available, completely reliable diagnostic tests for use before the onset of clinical symptoms. However, magnetic resonance scans, tonsillar biopsy and cerebrospinal fluid tests are useful diagnostic tests.
* The brainwave pattern observed during an electroencephalogram was abnormal in most of the vCJD patients, but the wave forms characteristic of sporadic CJD do not occur.
* Currently the diagnosis of vCJD can only be confirmed following pathological examination of the brain. Characteristically, multiple microscopic and abnormal aggregates encircled by holes are seen, resulting in a daisy-like appearance described by the term "florid plaques".
* No part or product of any animal which has shown signs of a TSE should enter any (human or animal) food chain; Countries should not permit tissues that are likely to contain the BSE agent to enter any (human or animal) food chain; All countries should ban the use of ruminant tissues in ruminant feed.
* Human and veterinary vaccines prepared from bovine materials may carry the risk of transmission of animal TSE agents. The pharmaceutical industry should ideally avoid the use of bovine materials and materials from other animal species in which TSEs naturally occur. If their use is absolutely necessary, bovine materials should be obtained from countries which have a surveillance system for BSE in place and which report either zero or only sporadic cases of BSE. These precautions apply to the manufacture of cosmetics as well.
* In 1999, a review was conducted of the known information about a number of animal TSEs to try to proactively determine if there are any new TSE threats. Their principle recommendations were to eradicate BSE and to find out if BSE has infected sheep populations. The recommendations are available at http://www.who.int/emc-documents/ under the heading "TSE".
* WHO reprinted guidelines for infection control of TSEs in 2002. The full text is available at http://www.who.int/emc-documents/ under the heading "TSE"
* Joint WHO/FAO/OIE Technical Consultation on BSE: Public Health, Animal Health and Trade.
If you take a look at http://www.mad-cow.org/portugal.html you'll know how this drama was handled on a small scale. The US issue is more complicated, as the US bovine meat production has a bigger scale.
I remember here in Portugal, in 1998 when this happened, McDonalds sales become so low they had to introduce pork and more chicken burgers in their menu, they also sold McMenus as low as 1.50 or 2 EUR i think. I don't know about the US but till then we just had chicken and cow meat.
I wonder how related big industries will behave in the US ? .....
MAIA
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Spiritual being, living a human experience ... The Shroomery Mandala
 
Use, do not abuse; neither abstinence nor excess ever renders man happy.
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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: GabbaDj]
#2199567 - 12/24/03 10:52 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Why haven't they made a huge deal about it yet. They never seemed to shut up about it when it was one cow in Canada.
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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: barfightlard]
#2199572 - 12/24/03 10:54 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Actually the stories seem to be receiving about equal attention.
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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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trendal
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: MAIA]
#2199574 - 12/24/03 10:54 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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When this happened in Canada earlier this year it nearly devasted our beef industry.
I'm afraid this disease is only going to become more prevailent as time goes by...
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Rono
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: trendal]
#2199908 - 12/24/03 03:33 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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There is talk that the disease may have a 10 to 30 YEAR gestation period before the victim begins to show symptoms...for all we know, we may all be infected.
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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: Rono]
#2199930 - 12/24/03 03:56 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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For all we know we may be immune.
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Swami
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: GabbaDj]
#2199938 - 12/24/03 04:05 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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This is NOT good news....
Seeing as how I jumped on this news and shorted MacDonalds' stock first thing this morning and covered in two hours for an ez profit, it was pretty good news. 
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The proof is in the pudding.
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enimatpyrt
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: GabbaDj]
#2200983 - 12/25/03 02:03 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Maybe it's just me, and maybe i'm not "politically correct", but, dammit, mad cow meat just tastes better!
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The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.
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Anonymous
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: GabbaDj]
#2201289 - 12/25/03 08:19 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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i wonder how hard it would be, for a person with a few connections, to acquire a culture of mad cow disease and infect a few american cows with it...
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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: ]
#2201330 - 12/25/03 09:02 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushmaster said:
i wonder how hard it would be, for a person with a few connections, to acquire a culture of mad cow disease and infect a few american cows with it...
laugh
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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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Anonymous
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: barfightlard]
#2201340 - 12/25/03 09:11 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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seriously. maybe this mad cow thing is just the beginning of whatever terrorist plot has got us at defcon orange or whatever.... 
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WhiteRabbitt
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: enimatpyrt]
#2201622 - 12/26/03 02:03 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
enimatpyrt said:
Maybe it's just me, and maybe i'm not "politically correct", but, dammit, mad cow meat just tastes better!
Thats what my dad kept saying while we were eating our roast for dinner tonight haha.
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mntlfngrs
The Art of Casterbation
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: ]
#2201636 - 12/26/03 02:18 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just get quality cuts from steer instead of cow and you'll be fine.
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Le_Canard
The Duk Abides
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: ]
#2201639 - 12/26/03 02:21 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Well, that would be rather hard, seeing as how Mad Cow Disease isn't really a "disease" as traditionally thought. It's caused by a sort of rogue protein, and thus cannot be cultured or vaccinated against. You can read more Here.
But who really knows? It could very well be some sort of terrorist act, although I doubt it.
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Anonymous
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: GabbaDj]
#2201777 - 12/26/03 06:49 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Go Vegan!
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Hanky
wiffle bat.
Registered: 08/30/03
Posts: 56,993
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: GabbaDj]
#2202844 - 12/26/03 08:34 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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if this hurts the golden arches....then i'm all for it.
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Coaster is an idiot...
[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
[/quote]
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: Hanky]
#2202896 - 12/26/03 09:16 PM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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what have you got against McDonalds?
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Hanky
wiffle bat.
Registered: 08/30/03
Posts: 56,993
Loc: Great Southern Land.
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#2203152 - 12/27/03 12:17 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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i enjoy eating fine food....where as McDonalds seems to think that serving up muck that makes used condoms taste good is quite acceptable.
McDonalds is the polar opposite of good food.
and that my friend is the reason i hate all fast food chain stores.
PS. your 'baby hitler' ID is disgusting.though from reading your other posts i suppose it's only natural that you would idolise someone who represents the extreme right wing of politics.
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Coaster is an idiot...
[quote]Coaster said:
but i thnk everything thats pure is white?
[/quote]
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist
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Re: Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy [Re: Hanky]
#2203254 - 12/27/03 01:13 AM (20 years, 3 months ago) |
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Ah, I see.
So what you're saying is that you're a fascist and your pussy hurts.
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