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InvisibleFoxFire
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Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend?
    #22022914 - 07/31/15 02:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Anyone here ever try this stuff?


From the website:

"Just a pinch of this secret recipe added to each substrate bag will magically increase biological efficiency and yield of any variety of mushrooms! Grow the biggest and most prolific mushrooms of your cultivation career with Aloha Medcinals’ Magic Mushroom powder consisting of Aloha Medincinals’ own secret blend of macro and micronutrients with just a little something extra that results in an explosion of mushrooms forming on your substrate. Once you experience the fruit bodies that form due to the addition of this special supplement you will never cultivate fungi without it again. Combine Aloha Medcinals’ Magic Mushroom powder with the Pre-Mixed Substrate to make the most of your cultivation experience. Please note spawn is not included in the Mushroom Magic powder, but all of the world’s top strains are available for purchase through Aloha Medicinals’ Culture Bank. Mushroom Magic should be used at a rate of one heaping tablespoon full to each of your grow bags holding ~6 lbs substrate."

Sounds a little gimmicky, but if it works, hell I'd buy 2!

-FF


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: FoxFire]
    #22023159 - 07/31/15 05:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FoxFire said:
Anyone here ever try this stuff?


From the website:

"Just a pinch of this secret recipe added to each substrate bag will magically increase biological efficiency and yield of any variety of mushrooms! Grow the biggest and most prolific mushrooms of your cultivation career with Aloha Medcinals’ Magic Mushroom powder consisting of Aloha Medincinals’ own secret blend of macro and micronutrients with just a little something extra that results in an explosion of mushrooms forming on your substrate. Once you experience the fruit bodies that form due to the addition of this special supplement you will never cultivate fungi without it again. Combine Aloha Medcinals’ Magic Mushroom powder with the Pre-Mixed Substrate to make the most of your cultivation experience. Please note spawn is not included in the Mushroom Magic powder, but all of the world’s top strains are available for purchase through Aloha Medicinals’ Culture Bank. Mushroom Magic should be used at a rate of one heaping tablespoon full to each of your grow bags holding ~6 lbs substrate."

Sounds a little gimmicky, but if it works, hell I'd buy 2!

-FF




let us know about the magic mushroom powder, OK?


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: drake89]
    #22041348 - 08/04/15 10:10 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I've heard of mixes like this before, and generally they don't work. I do tend to trust Aloha though, so IDK. Give it a shot and let us know.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: 36fuckin5]
    #22046150 - 08/05/15 08:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Aloha is a reputable business.
On the other hand I believe that they make enough money to be a little more transparent with their products. It's a shame really. Either way I would purchase it if its something you think you will benefit from. Personally, I would do a little research on the topic and come up with my own formula. It is probably a blend of organic nutrients like seed meals/etc.

Let us know if you pick it up and try it out! Should make for an interesting side by side show...:wink:


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InvisibleFoxFire
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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: bryanbzl]
    #22053225 - 08/06/15 11:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That's what I was thinking.

Also I bet they would be down to send me a pound or so
to experiment with if I mentioned I was a shroomery member.

I'll send them a message and see what happens.

-FF


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Edited by FoxFire (08/06/15 12:12 PM)


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InvisibleFoxFire
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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: FoxFire] * 1
    #22058733 - 08/07/15 01:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, so they are going to send me a sample!

I'll do some side by side comparisons with supplemented sawdust bags and take pictures, weights etc.

-FF


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: FoxFire]
    #22058861 - 08/07/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

i cant wait to see this in action


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OfflineNcogneato
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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: god2hateyou]
    #22059885 - 08/07/15 06:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Very cool! I will keep an eye on this thread for sure!


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: Ncogneato]
    #22061081 - 08/07/15 11:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You should smell it for that salty smell you get from gypsum :lol:


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: Mad Season]
    #22064733 - 08/08/15 10:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Its also possible its something like yeast nutrient or spent brewers yeast, maybe with a bit of slow pH stabilizers.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: matsc]
    #22095444 - 08/15/15 04:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I actually have some of this! 

I have not done side-by-side comparisons, but have knocked up 15 bags of King Oysters with it mixed into the fruiting substrate (about 2 weeks in).  I should know more soon. :smile:

Even after buying the stuff, the only additional information I could gleam from it was that its organic.

For the curious I took some pictures:





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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: followthefungi]
    #22095492 - 08/15/15 04:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, that looks like straight oyster flour. Does it have any discernible odor?

Aloha is an interesting company, but if its posts here on the Shroomery are any indication, its grasp of the mycological sciences is shaky at best, and it wouldnt surprise me AT ALL if they were touting ground oyster shells as a miracle product.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: matsc]
    #22095848 - 08/15/15 05:57 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

No smell at all.  Yes, it looks just like it.  There may be other stuff in it, but I'm not able to tell.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: matsc]
    #22095881 - 08/15/15 06:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

matsc said:
Ok, that looks like straight oyster flour. Does it have any discernible odor?

Aloha is an interesting company, but if its posts here on the Shroomery are any indication, its grasp of the mycological sciences is shaky at best, and it wouldnt surprise me AT ALL if they were touting ground oyster shells as a miracle product.



haha they aren't shady.  John Holiday, the company owner, also owns several mushroom farms and has published some scientific literature.  Not to mention one of the largest mushroom culture banks.  so yeah, to say that their grasp of science is shaky, is pretty insulting.  especially since they are the largest certified organic spawn producer in the country.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: drake89]
    #22095948 - 08/15/15 06:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Since it has a lot number on it and a QC sticker; it seems to imply a manufacturing process.  It would seem reasonable that shell flour is just one of the ingredients in the mix.  I was hoping the product itself would provide more detail (then the website), but that wasn't really the case this time.

I've also bought quite a few bags of spawn, and cultures from them in the past and have always been happy with the product.  Though shipping costs and time are painful.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: drake89]
    #22096022 - 08/15/15 06:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
haha they aren't shady.  John Holiday, the company owner, also owns several mushroom farms and has published some scientific literature.  Not to mention one of the largest mushroom culture banks.  so yeah, to say that their grasp of science is shaky, is pretty insulting.  especially since they are the largest certified organic spawn producer in the country.




I base that statement upon the few posts of his I've come across on this forum. His attempts at explaining fungal genetics were baffling, at best.

This is a quote from Mr. Holiday posted during the Cordyceps co-op buy thread:
Quote:


That initial CS4 isolation was more than 40 years ago. That is a long time in terms of scientific advancements. Think of where the computer was 40 years ago. Or the advances in any technical or scientific field in the last 40 years. So much advancement has taken place during that time that the “Best” of that era is no longer even on the radar. In 1972, there was no DNA testing to see if the CS-4 culture they derived was even Cordyceps. In fact, it turns out that it was not. The culture that is called CS4 is a different species entirely, Latin named Paecilomyces hepialis chen. This is a species related to Cordyceps, in that it has some of the DNA from the original Cordyceps, but not the entire genetic package. This happens because of a unique feature of Cordyceps called Part-Spores reproduction.

“Anamorph” is the name of the non-sexual, non-reproductive mycelial growth of Cordyceps or any of the other Ascomycetes fungi. It is an asexual stage of growth, and is what is normal cultivated in laboratories today. An anamorph can be thought of as the child of the parent fungus. Confusing the issue of Cordyceps anamorphs is the indication that Cordyceps is almost certainly a colony organism. In the type of fungi known as ascomycetes, such as Cordyceps, there are 4 spores produced in each spore sac. Each spore contains 50% of the total DNA. When these spores germinate, they are not identical to the parent fungus, but only 50% identical. Then when two different spore germinations meet, they fuse and exchange DNA, and only then will the resulting culture contain 100% of the DNA, or in other words it is a complete and identical fungal organism the same as the parent species only after two spore growths meet and fuse. This is much like human reproduction where each parent contributes 50% of the DNA.

But Cordyceps does something very unique. Prior to germination of the spores (remember contain 50% of the DNA), the spores will separate into as many as 100 “part-spores”. These part-spores each contain something less than 50% of the total DNA. Each of these spores can and do germinate though, and the resulting cultures are related to Cordyceps in that they contain some of the DNA of the Cordyceps, but not all of it. But the germinations are species that we recognize and that are already known, for example Fusarium oxysporum. (a very commonly derivative anamorph species from single part-spore isolates) Apparently in nature instead of just two whole spores fusing like in other fungi, in Cordyceps many of these part-spore organisms fuse, so that eventually the entire Cordyceps sinensis DNA sequence is assembled. Only then can the culture be called Cordyceps sinensis and only then does it fruit. We do not know exactly how many partner species contribute to the Cordyceps sinensis organism, but there are at least 21 genera that can be isolated from Cordyceps spores. These are:

Paecilomyces, Acremonium, Akanthomyces, Aschersonia, Aspergillus, Beauveria, Culicinomyces, Fusarium, Gibellula, Hirsutella, Hymenostilbe, Metarhizium, Nomuraea, Paraisaria, Pseudogibellula, Sorosporella, Sporothrix, Tetracrium, Tilachlidiopsis, Tolypocladium, Verticillium

There are others genera known as anamorphs as well, but these 21 genera are listed in the peer-review literature as “anamorphs” of Cordyceps. Some authors will claim that Hirsutella sinensis is the “true” anamorph of Cordyceps sinensis. That is incorrect data from an early attempt to genotype the anamorph. In truth, there is no one single anamorph of Cordyceps, but many that must be present for the fungus to be complete.

I know it may seem a little complex, but I suggest you take a look at the Phylogenetic tree at http://cordyceps.us/node/3073?size=_original (you may have to look at thumbnail to get an overall view. That is at http://cordyceps.us/Systematics). A Phylogenetic tree is a relationship tree that shows how different species all relate to each other. True Cordyceps sinensis is almost at the very bottom, only 5 up, and it is called by its proper Latin name, Ophiocordyceps sinensis. The further away from each other on the tree, the further apart the organisms are related to each other. That means they are less and less related as they get further away from each other on the tree.  Now if you look at the very top end of the tree, you will see a species called Bionectria ochroleuca. This is just about as far away from true Cordyceps as you can get and still say that the two fungi are related. This species Bionectria ochroleuca is one of the most common products sold in China as “Cordyceps”. But as you can see, it is not Cordyceps at all, it is Bionectria. Big Difference! The species known as Paecilomyces hepialis chen or the CS-4 strain is closer to true Cordyceps, but still it is only about 1/3 of the way up the tree. (actually the species Paecilomyces hepialis chen is not shown on this chart, but a very closely related species is, Paecilomyces lilacinus) We know this is true from DNA analysis. This level of understanding from DNA analysis was not available in 1972, not even in 1992. It was only in the late 90’s that DNA sequencing became available, and even now it is something that not many companies will do with their products because of the cost. If you look at the attached DNA report though (from USA National Institute of Health, National Center for Biotechnology Information) you will see Aloha Medicinals Cordyceps is a 100% match to the real Cordyceps sequence that is deposited in the national databank. This means Aloha Medicinals is Genetically Bio-identical as well as Analytically Bio-identical to the wild collected Cordyceps sinensis.

We can produce any type of Cordyceps product our customers may specify. All Cordyceps Aloha Medicinals produces are 100% USDA Certified Organic and manufactured under cGMP regulations in an FDA registered plant. All raw material is Made in America, with no Chinese material used. We would be glad to quote you on any type of Cordyceps derived product you may require. This can be raw material, or finished bulk tablets or capsules or finished tablets or capsules in a bottle or blister package. We also can supply energy bars, drink mixes, soup base, etc. Please just let me know what you are thinking of and what quantities, and I would be glad to provide a quotation for you.

You can find information on all our Cordyceps based products at http://alohamedicinals.com

I have attached a couple of other files to this email for your perusal. We look forward to becoming your supplier for Cordyceps based products.


Sincerely,
John Holliday
Director of Research
Aloha Medicinals Inc
Tel +1 775.886.6300




Which is also found on their webpage at: http://www.alohamedicinals.com/cordyceps.html


There is SO MUCH wrong in there that its hard to know where to begin. The man is likely a brilliant curator and cultivation genius, but its spreading information such as this that makes me shake my head in wonder. I will attempt to break it down into digestible bits, but for the moment suffice to say its things like this that make me question his scientific merit (NOT his merit as an applied mycologist, just his knowledge of what is actually going on at a scientific level)


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: matsc]
    #22096080 - 08/15/15 07:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

“Anamorph” is the name of the non-sexual, non-reproductive mycelial growth of Cordyceps or any of the other Ascomycetes fungi. It is an asexual stage of growth, and is what is normal cultivated in laboratories today. An anamorph can be thought of as the child of the parent fungus.



Incorrect. Anamorphs are quite frequently reproductive, just in an asexual manner. If youve ever seen the spore mass of Aspergillus or Penicillium, you've seen anamorphic reproduction. Many fungi spend the majority of their time in their teleomorph phase and reproduce exclusively sexually. And most fungi will go back and forth between anamorph and teleomorph depending on conditions/timing/age/etc, so the parent-child relationship falls apart.

Quote:

The culture that is called CS4 is a different species entirely, Latin named Paecilomyces hepialis chen. This is a species related to Cordyceps, in that it has some of the DNA from the original Cordyceps, but not the entire genetic package. This happens because of a unique feature of Cordyceps called Part-Spores reproduction.




Ok, first off, "Part-spores reproduction" is a term that would get you laughed out of any mycology class, and exists solely in the Aloha dictionary. Yes, the culture known as CS-4 has since been identified as Paecilomyces hepialis-chen, but not because of some mixed DNA nonsense. This species, and the true anamorph of Ophiocordyceps sinensis (currently accepted to be Hirsutella sinensis) are very closely related. The DNA sequence used to differentiate species (in this case the ITS region) is identical between the two. This isnt really uncommon amongst closely related species and when it occurs you simply use some other loci to differentiate. So yes, some of their DNA is identical, but not because of this baffling "part spores" nonsense, just as a consequence of relatedness. 

First post of several, more to come.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: matsc]
    #22096118 - 08/15/15 07:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

In the type of fungi known as ascomycetes, such as Cordyceps, there are 4 spores produced in each spore sac. Each spore contains 50% of the total DNA. When these spores germinate, they are not identical to the parent fungus, but only 50% identical. Then when two different spore germinations meet, they fuse and exchange DNA, and only then will the resulting culture contain 100% of the DNA, or in other words it is a complete and identical fungal organism the same as the parent species only after two spore growths meet and fuse. This is much like human reproduction where each parent contributes 50% of the DNA.




Woo boy, where to start. First of all, in anamorph reproduction, spores are clones of the parent mass. They are genetically identical (barring mutation and whatnot). What he is describing here is the result of sexual reproduction, which occurs in the teleomorph phase. Also, ascospores occur most often in groups of 8 (4 pairs of 2 haploid spores). Each spore pair will have undergone sexual recombination, and hence have DNA different than their parent. This DNA may be from a single organism (in self-fertile fungi) or as a result of the mixing of 2 organisms (in the case of self-sterile fungi).

In either case, the ascospores germinate into haploid (1n) hyphae. In ascomycetes, they spend the majority of their life, and the majority of the mass, in this haploid state. It is only when sexual reproduction begins that cell fusion (plasmogamy) and nuclear fusion (karyogamy) occurs. In ascomycetes, the two steps are seperated temporally so you end up with an extended dikayote stage with hypha containing two seperate haploid nuclei (though only in a limited number of cells).

What he is describing much more closely resembles what happens in Basidiomycetes. In this case, haploid spores germinate and live a very limited life until they fuse with a compatible partner to form a stable dikaryon. This (n+n) hyphae makes up the vast majority of the hyphal mass, and virtually its entire lifecycle. The exception being during reproduction when the two nuclei fuse and go on to form basidia from which 4 haploid spores (most often) form.

It also somewhat resembles what occurs in oomycete reproduction in which two haploid spores fuse to form a long lived diploid phase that makes up the majority of the organisms lifecycle. But again, nothing to do with Cordyceps.


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Edited by matsc (08/15/15 07:14 PM)


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: matsc]
    #22096161 - 08/15/15 07:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


But Cordyceps does something very unique. Prior to germination of the spores (remember contain 50% of the DNA), the spores will separate into as many as 100 “part-spores”. These part-spores each contain something less than 50% of the total DNA. Each of these spores can and do germinate though, and the resulting cultures are related to Cordyceps in that they contain some of the DNA of the Cordyceps, but not all of it. But the germinations are species that we recognize and that are already known, for example Fusarium oxysporum. (a very commonly derivative anamorph species from single part-spore isolates) Apparently in nature instead of just two whole spores fusing like in other fungi, in Cordyceps many of these part-spore organisms fuse, so that eventually the entire Cordyceps sinensis DNA sequence is assembled. Only then can the culture be called Cordyceps sinensis and only then does it fruit. We do not know exactly how many partner species contribute to the Cordyceps sinensis organism, but there are at least 21 genera that can be isolated from Cordyceps spores.




This.... this is why I no longer trust the mans scientific credentials. This reads like the attempts of a man trying to explain a phenomenon with absolutely no clue as to what is going on. An organism will not magically change species and become something else. That is not how reality works. Cordyceps sinensis cannot become Fusarium oxysporum.

In nature, Cordyceps (and its related genera such as Paracordyceps and Ophiocordyceps) do most often occur as mixed cultures. Some poor bug ends up infected by multiple species of fungi which are all happily digesting it at once (not entirely surprising due to the various immune-evading processes these parasites employ). Its not because 1 species has magically turned into 2 dozen. Bits and pieces of DNA do not assemble Voltron style into a single mega-organism.

There are such a thing as consortia and multi-part organisms, do not misunderstand me. Lichens, for example, as a "single organism" made up of multiple interacting organisms (a fungi and an algae and/or a cyanobacteria). But it is not a case of intermingling DNA self assembling into some new organism, it is just many players working together.

And I honestly have no clue whatsoever what he is going on about with the spores-splitting-into-part-spores thing. That doesnt occur in nature. There are some species which have multi-celled spores which can germinate from each cell independently, but nothing like this. Gah!


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: matsc]
    #22096249 - 08/15/15 07:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

lol you guys are funny.

His science is spot on. He just doesn't show you it. His emails and correspondence are deceptive as hell. Its not that his science is off... its that he is not being straight with you. You can clearly see through all of the posts on the shroomery, including the cordyceps correspondence, that he is beating around the bush. Same shit if you ask him about cultivation. he will ramble about some nonsense to try to confuse you or make you loose interest. Its like he wants to sell his strains but keep them all to himself at the same time.

I appreciate everything he has brought to the body intellect. But for someone shitting mushroom money he sure could be a little more straight forward and helpful to amateur hobbyists.


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"From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children."

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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: bryanbzl]
    #22096257 - 08/15/15 07:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

If you haven't realized it yet...

He has 1000 typewriter monkeys doing research at AM... :grin:


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: matsc]
    #22096297 - 08/15/15 08:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I know it may seem a little complex, but I suggest you take a look at the Phylogenetic tree at http://cordyceps.us/node/3073?size=_original (you may have to look at thumbnail to get an overall view. That is at http://cordyceps.us/Systematics). A Phylogenetic tree is a relationship tree that shows how different species all relate to each other. True Cordyceps sinensis is almost at the very bottom, only 5 up, and it is called by its proper Latin name, Ophiocordyceps sinensis. The further away from each other on the tree, the further apart the organisms are related to each other. That means they are less and less related as they get further away from each other on the tree.  Now if you look at the very top end of the tree, you will see a species called Bionectria ochroleuca. This is just about as far away from true Cordyceps as you can get and still say that the two fungi are related. This species Bionectria ochroleuca is one of the most common products sold in China as “Cordyceps”. But as you can see, it is not Cordyceps at all, it is Bionectria. Big Difference! The species known as Paecilomyces hepialis chen or the CS-4 strain is closer to true Cordyceps, but still it is only about 1/3 of the way up the tree. (actually the species Paecilomyces hepialis chen is not shown on this chart, but a very closely related species is, Paecilomyces lilacinus) We know this is true from DNA analysis. This level of understanding from DNA analysis was not available in 1972, not even in 1992. It was only in the late 90’s that DNA sequencing became available, and even now it is something that not many companies will do with their products because of the cost. If you look at the attached DNA report though (from USA National Institute of Health, National Center for Biotechnology Information) you will see Aloha Medicinals Cordyceps is a 100% match to the real Cordyceps sequence that is deposited in the national databank. This means Aloha Medicinals is Genetically Bio-identical as well as Analytically Bio-identical to the wild collected Cordyceps sinensis.




Ok, Fungal phylogenetics is an utterly maddening field. I have seen actual fist fights break out over this shit between respected scientists (though granted this may have something to do with the open bar so many conferences have).

Basically, the tree he is linking is a snapshot of order Hypocreales. This group contains 7 families (6 of which are represented), 237 genera, and about 2647 species. It should also be noted that the tree lists species by their holomorph (teleomorph if it is known, anamorph or accepted name otherwise). Each junction of that tree can be freely rotated, so saying just because something is at the bottom of the list and the other at the top does not mean they are the least related groups. IE the family Bionectriaceae is equally related to both the Nectriaceae and the group containing the Hypocreaceae, Cordycipitaceae, Clavicipitaceae, and Ophiocordycipitaceae.

I do see a few places listing B. ochroleuca as a "Cordyceps" (for example Gourmet Mushrooms Inc's "Cordy-Gen"), but I have no clue if it is the "most common" product sold as such. They also list it as an entomopathogen which is patently false as its a facultative plant pathogen.  :shrug:

It is also tough to say if "Paecilomyces hepalis" is closely related to Paecilomyces lilacinus. Strictly speaking neither group belongs on this tree as the genus Paecilomyces is technically a member of an entirely different class of fungi (Eurotiomycetes, as opposed to the Sordariomycetes represented here). Species which superficially resembled Paecilomyces were formerly assigned to the group, but are now being re-assigned to more accurate places. Paecilomyces lilacinus is now Purpureocillium lilacinum, for example. This is one of the maddening things of fungal tree making, the sheer number of names which have been assigned to a single organism over the years, just because they happened to look and behave similarly.

And that is the key to understanding what is at play here. "Cordyceps sinensis" was the name assigned to the fungi fruiting from various species of caterpillars. These fruiting structures are now better understood to be a consortium of two fungi, Ophiocordyceps sinensis (aka  Hirsutella sinensis) which is the actual spore producing reproductive fungi, and "Paecilomyces hepiali" which plays an as-of-yet poorly understood function. Both species are present, and both play their parts. However, which species provides which health benefits (if any) is an entirely different set of questions. Strictly speaking, and officially speaking, Ophiocordyceps sinensis is the currently accepted "Caterpillar fungus", and if you want to take your chinese herbal medicine, this is the one to go for. It is also a lot slower and more expensive to cultivate. It is also what Aloha sells as "Cordyceps sinensis", so have at it!


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: bryanbzl]
    #22096304 - 08/15/15 08:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bryanbzl said:
lol you guys are funny.

His science is spot on. He just doesn't show you it. His emails and correspondence are deceptive as hell. Its not that his science is off... its that he is not being straight with you. You can clearly see through all of the posts on the shroomery, including the cordyceps correspondence, that he is beating around the bush. Same shit if you ask him about cultivation. he will ramble about some nonsense to try to confuse you or make you loose interest. Its like he wants to sell his strains but keep them all to himself at the same time.

I appreciate everything he has brought to the body intellect. But for someone shitting mushroom money he sure could be a little more straight forward and helpful to amateur hobbyists.





...Thats even worse than him simply being wrong. If he were simply mistaken, its easy enough to remedy. If he is actively deceiving people, that is downright evil. If he doesn't want to tell you something he should just say "Sorry, trade secrets" and be done with it. But trolling his potential customers? Thats vile.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: matsc]
    #22096367 - 08/15/15 08:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

matsc said:
Quote:

bryanbzl said:
lol you guys are funny.

His science is spot on. He just doesn't show you it. His emails and correspondence are deceptive as hell. Its not that his science is off... its that he is not being straight with you. You can clearly see through all of the posts on the shroomery, including the cordyceps correspondence, that he is beating around the bush. Same shit if you ask him about cultivation. he will ramble about some nonsense to try to confuse you or make you loose interest. Its like he wants to sell his strains but keep them all to himself at the same time.

I appreciate everything he has brought to the body intellect. But for someone shitting mushroom money he sure could be a little more straight forward and helpful to amateur hobbyists.





...Thats even worse than him simply being wrong. If he were simply mistaken, its easy enough to remedy. If he is actively deceiving people, that is downright evil. If he doesn't want to tell you something he should just say "Sorry, trade secrets" and be done with it. But trolling his potential customers? Thats vile.




I see you have creeped out from under the rock
lol:hehehe:

Welcome to planet earth friend!:grin:

But seriously. Read the CS4 correspondence. After reading that and having any knowledge about mycology whatsoever that is the only possible conclusion one can come up with. I wish it weren't that way my friend. but the world is a fucken evil place. Look at China's "gutter oil" scandal. enough said.


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"From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children."

conclusion:
poor fucking children of the early 1900's.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: matsc]
    #22096492 - 08/15/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

matsc said:
Quote:

bryanbzl said:
lol you guys are funny.

His science is spot on. He just doesn't show you it. His emails and correspondence are deceptive as hell. Its not that his science is off... its that he is not being straight with you. You can clearly see through all of the posts on the shroomery, including the cordyceps correspondence, that he is beating around the bush. Same shit if you ask him about cultivation. he will ramble about some nonsense to try to confuse you or make you loose interest. Its like he wants to sell his strains but keep them all to himself at the same time.

I appreciate everything he has brought to the body intellect. But for someone shitting mushroom money he sure could be a little more straight forward and helpful to amateur hobbyists.





...Thats even worse than him simply being wrong. If he were simply mistaken, its easy enough to remedy. If he is actively deceiving people, that is downright evil. If he doesn't want to tell you something he should just say "Sorry, trade secrets" and be done with it. But trolling his potential customers? Thats vile.




it took me about 3.41 seconds to find references to 'part spore' phenomenon that you have beef with.  check yourself, fool.

http://cordyceps.us/files/mycological_research_multiples_of_eight_in_cordyceps_ascospores.pdf

I'm pretty sure that trade paper he published was just a layman description of the confusing fungal sex without using the words ploidy or meiosis.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: drake89]
    #22096540 - 08/15/15 09:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Ok, thank you I stand corrected. Its a phenomenon I had never seen before in ascospores and my cursory google search only turned up the Aloha medicinal pages. (I have seen it before in other ascomycetes as arthroconidia, but those are strictly asexual, and never used the term "partspore")

Although that paper you linked seems to specify that Ophiocordyceps (which C. sinensis is now assigned to) is typified as species which do not posses frangible ascospores. Additionally each of the partspores is clonal to the initial larger ascospore. So you may get 100s of partspores (and my god that is still a funky term) but you'd still have the the 1:1:1:1 genetic ratio per ascus.

But! I now know one more term to confuse the kids with in the mycology lab I'm TAing this semester, so thats something at least :grin:


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: matsc]
    #22096752 - 08/15/15 10:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

BUT ANYWAY! Back to the nutrient blend. The lack of smells is curious. Most vitamin/micronutrient blends have some odor, either the funk of yeast extract or the sharp twang of B12.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: matsc]
    #22097367 - 08/16/15 02:38 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

matsc said:
BUT ANYWAY! Back to the nutrient blend.



Thank you.


@followthefungi,
have you grown this strain out on the same type of blocks before, without the blend?
If you notice a marked increase in yield or speed, let us know!
Thanks!

-FF


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: FoxFire]
    #22097374 - 08/16/15 02:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

is this magic powder just humic acid or leonardite?
just adding humic acid too subs increases the BE quite abit with any mushroom.
bet its just that.
been known for years and years.

i bet it will just be leonardite or lignite or something simliar


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: mustangbob3]
    #22098074 - 08/16/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
is this magic powder just humic acid or leonardite?
just adding humic acid too subs increases the BE quite abit with any mushroom.
bet its just that.
been known for years and years.

i bet it will just be leonardite or lignite or something simliar




whatever it is- if it increases BE by 10% it's worth it in my book.

Any of you nerds have access to GC/MS or LC/MS?


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: drake89]
    #22099131 - 08/16/15 03:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I have not grown out blocks of the fruiting substrate without the additive. After all this though I'm so interested that I'll include a block in the batches I make up weekly, and will watch the results.  (As a new member to the hobby and community, I had no idea that there was such speculation around this specific vendor).  Interesting indeed!

I did a few more bags today.  The nutrient blend has no smell until wet - it gives my substrate an almost sweet smell (substrate is just wood chips, saw dust, and bran).


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: followthefungi]
    #22099429 - 08/16/15 04:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

some people i've been talking with speculate it could be seed powder


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: drake89] * 1
    #22099442 - 08/16/15 04:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hmm, seed powder, that would be an interesting addition. Relatively easy to test too. When you wet the powder does it become sticky? Is there particulate that sinks or floats? If you have a bit of iodine around, does it turn black when dripped on the powder (this is a test for starch)?


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: mustangbob3] * 1
    #22100476 - 08/16/15 09:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
is this magic powder just humic acid or leonardite?
just adding humic acid too subs increases the BE quite abit with any mushroom.
bet its just that.
been known for years and years.

i bet it will just be leonardite or lignite or something simliar




I am actually trying out humic acid as we speak. I have noticed an increase in yield in my veggie garden mushrooms closest to my humic acid amended bed. Made me think to test it. Literally a 50% increase in size right along the border of the bed. It could just be my compost blend which I've been tweaking for a while. Like I mentioned in the beginning of the thread I think this is mainly seed meals. As this is what has been used traditionally as an "amendment" for mushroom compost recipes just like for veggie growing too. I don't bother with none of this stuff. I inoculate all my subs with grain spawn around 15% depending on the strain which has eliminated the need to supplement to begin with - and the need to sterilize my sawdust subs to begin with.

The best way I have found to increase BE is the same way it is done with Cannabis - sea of green method. This basically translates to the industrial bottle culture method. which is at the extreme end and obviously has its limitation for smaller scale growers. By making the vessel larger and more conducive to growing in a smaller scale It works out pretty well.

I am working on a tek right now in my spare time to get the method out to as many people as I can. It is mostly beneficial for maximizing yield per square foot - something that is important to me because I believe bringing cultivation into the urban setting is one way to bring a positive change to our world. I really want to make a video because I have a really good tek for sterile work that is the easiest and simplest way possible - not to mention the cheapest. It also is way more comfortable then the traditional holes-in-a-box SAB.
Nothing new actually... but something overlooked.

Time time time... something nobody has enough of. lol:cool:


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Cheers,

bzl

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"From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children."

conclusion:
poor fucking children of the early 1900's.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: bryanbzl]
    #22100490 - 08/16/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

someone had a chart up on shroomery about the nutritional content of different seeds. anyone know the link? I know Chia is at the top... but flax is barely below it and an 1/8th of the price.

I've fucked with it a long time ago because I have a lot around because I eat a ton of it. but it turns to goo when its wet... so I was thinking of trying to figure out away around that... time time time... once again.


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"From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children."

conclusion:
poor fucking children of the early 1900's.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: bryanbzl]
    #22100700 - 08/16/15 10:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bryanbzl said:
someone had a chart up on shroomery about the nutritional content of different seeds. anyone know the link? I know Chia is at the top... but flax is barely below it and an 1/8th of the price.

I've fucked with it a long time ago because I have a lot around because I eat a ton of it. but it turns to goo when its wet... so I was thinking of trying to figure out away around that... time time time... once again.




you can just use smaller amounts of the flax seed oil.  but not really commercially viable for substrate as it's $$$


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: drake89]
    #22101279 - 08/17/15 01:34 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

i thought about adding flax seed meal before.
just for the oils lol

cheap to get too but i never did as rye grain has plenty.
per 55g =

Omega-3 Fatty Acids                      
0.06 g

Omega-6 Fatty Acids                      
0.37 g

is there anything else in the seed meal that is useful?
never looked into it apart from oils.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: mustangbob3]
    #22103841 - 08/17/15 06:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mustangbob3 said:
i thought about adding flax seed meal before.
just for the oils lol

cheap to get too but i never did as rye grain has plenty.
per 55g =

Omega-3 Fatty Acids                      
0.06 g

Omega-6 Fatty Acids                      
0.37 g

is there anything else in the seed meal that is useful?
never looked into it apart from oils.




Yes a lot of things. oils are a small part of it. Seeds are incredible little packages. I sprout quite a bit of seeds for food. sprouted seeds go up in nutritional value exponentially. Some nutrients go up 1000x+. They sell sprouted seed flours. They would make a crazy nutritious additive. :thumbup:

Also omega-6 and omega-3 are far from equal. flax has a ton more then rye and also has a higher omega3:omega6 ratio.


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Cheers,

bzl

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"From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children."

conclusion:
poor fucking children of the early 1900's.


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: bryanbzl]
    #22105406 - 08/18/15 05:12 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

i thought that sprouting only converts some starches to sugars?
would the increase only be maltose and other sugars?
a process called malting.

so what seed meals are best cotton,flax ect
heard adding quinoa before but never tried it.

if it is the cytokinin ,giberellins and other phytohormones a much better source that seed meal would be coconut water(not milk or cream).
same package as a seed but more available.(coconut is know as the tree of life, and i have used homebrew plant tissue culture made with coconut water its great stuff)

like i said adding for omega oils is pointless as the grain spawn we use has more than enough contained to suit the fungi.

and if you really want to test out some phytohormones i suggest
methoxyisoflavone and ecdysterone and ilpriflavone.
they are plant sterols but if you get results from othe phytohormones then you should with these too.
aiding nutrient partitioning,metabolism ect
they work for plants and humans*debatable* so i guess fungi worth a shot.

i may try coconut water, humic acid and a flavone complex in the near future.
just for kicks lol

also glutamate and alaninine(aminos) and arginine would really help any living thing work better. but again grains take care of this.

rye per 55g=

Alanine                                      
0.23 g

Arginine                             
0.25 g
                           

Glutamic Acid                              
1.28 g

would also like to try adding fats-
as the only major fat my fungi gets is oleic monounsaturate and linoleic polyunsaturated fatty acid.
lots of room to play.
fats will be used for keeping basal metabolic temps of the myc leving other more impotant nutes for other uses.
if you give them the source they will use fat purly for maintaining temps ect. far easier than assimilating other nutrients for this job.
and allowing more nute reserves for other things


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Re: Alohas 'yeild increasing' nutrient blend? [Re: mustangbob3]
    #22108452 - 08/18/15 08:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I use coconut water for growing seedlings. A way cheaper and very effective alternative is sprouted corn or barley. Known in the growing community as SST or sprouted seed tea. Used for other enzyme and nutrients as well. :thumbup: Not sure exactly what nutes are beneficial for fungi but some seeds have way more nutrients then others. A good reason to test them out.
Like stated above, Quinoa has been used for its nutritive values but I'd still rather use flax if I chose to test something further. Its way cheaper and way more nutritious overall. Actually I am going to give it a go once I finish current projects.


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Cheers,

bzl

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"From 1898 through to 1910 heroin was marketed as a non-addictive morphine substitute and cough medicine for children."

conclusion:
poor fucking children of the early 1900's.


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