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Invisiblevatman
I'm Vatman


Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 1,642
Need some clarification on Gypsum
    #22020306 - 07/30/15 03:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I've been reading that Gypsum is used as a source of nutrition for oysters and other mushrooms. I have also read that it is not of any value besides making sure that the grains don't get too sticky.


So what is it really? A source of nutrition and or makes grains less sticky.

I have some available in the local area. Just wondering how beneficial is it really.


Edited by vatman (07/30/15 03:16 PM)


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22020378 - 07/30/15 03:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Its really good for the sub adds sulfur and calcium i believe


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22020388 - 07/30/15 03:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

You can just use drywall as well its the same thing they sell to you and go to lowes thell probably give you some free pieces .Just make sure its the plain board not the mold or fire resistant


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Invisiblevatman
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22020391 - 07/30/15 03:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

yeah been reading up again. That seems to be the consensus. I'm going to start using it again.

Really dry wall? That work well?


Edited by vatman (07/30/15 03:29 PM)


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22020402 - 07/30/15 03:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yes drywall is called gypsum board because its gypsum lol. I take some out side and smash it to pieces in a pillow case with a hammer then i blend it into a powder . No problems the gypsum you buy at the store for plants is probably just whats swept up from the dry wall process.


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OfflineJim Morrison
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22020418 - 07/30/15 03:34 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I use plaster of Paris.


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Live Long and Myceliate!

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Ayn Rand


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: Jim Morrison]
    #22020425 - 07/30/15 03:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Just get a piece of sheetrock and bust it up.  If you use plaster of paris, you have to wait for it to solidify, and then break it up.  You can get drywall scraps at any construction site for free.
RR


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Invisiblevatman
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: Jim Morrison]
    #22020439 - 07/30/15 03:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It also helps with moister control? Can't see this besides increasing surface area during the drying process thus having dryer grains before they go into the cooker and allow excessive moisture to be than trapped on the pours for the Gypsum.


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22020455 - 07/30/15 03:42 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I never use gypsum in my spawn i guess you could no need to over complicate things though . Just hydrate your grains untill they smush in your fingers like a pea would then rinse cold water and drain add to jars . Off to the pc they go.


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OfflineJim Morrison
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22020512 - 07/30/15 03:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I use plaster of Paris with Lipa's tek. Put it in there straight. I don't let it solidify and then break it up. Seems to be working pretty good.


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Live Long and Myceliate!

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Ayn Rand


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: Jim Morrison]
    #22020524 - 07/30/15 03:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Yea but the drywall has more of what you need than plaster of paris.


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Invisiblevatman
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: Jim Morrison]
    #22020526 - 07/30/15 03:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

It's added to most boiling process for grain. That was what i was getting at


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22020536 - 07/30/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Use it then . you dont need it to maintain moister though


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OfflineJim Morrison
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22020558 - 07/30/15 04:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'm sure you're right. I just don't have enough experience to say for sure. I just grabbed the plaster of Paris because that's what was available at the time. Someday I'll have to do a side-by-side test to see if I can notice the difference.


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Jim Morrison's Trade List

Live Long and Myceliate!

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Ayn Rand


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: Jim Morrison]
    #22020574 - 07/30/15 04:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

the plaster of paris is straight calcium hemihydrate
the gypsum board is calcium dihydrate also contains some sulfur and other nutes.


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OfflineJim Morrison
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22020610 - 07/30/15 04:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Awesome! Thanks for the good info. I'm going to have to get some gypsum now.


--------------------
Jim Morrison's Trade List

Live Long and Myceliate!

The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Ayn Rand


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Invisiblevatman
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22020628 - 07/30/15 04:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)



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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22020692 - 07/30/15 04:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

better check to see if the only ingredient is gypsum i dont know what they mean "AST Dry Lawn Fertilizer"


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22020705 - 07/30/15 04:30 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Looks like they add something else to it i wouldnt use it.


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Invisiblevatman
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22020738 - 07/30/15 04:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Bought this. I should have checked before I let them load it up. Thinking about returning it atm. Don't think it would work





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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22020748 - 07/30/15 04:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

yea thats clay not gypsum


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Invisiblevatman
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22020755 - 07/30/15 04:39 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

yeah going to return it now than

--Returned--

God damn store clerks tried to ague that it is Gypsum. I was like no its an equivalent. Had to get a manger out and show them that it was bought 20 mins ago to get it returned.


Edited by vatman (07/30/15 04:56 PM)


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Invisiblevatman
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22020906 - 07/30/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Looks like most gypsum in bulk is "Gypsum Plus AST"

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15885919

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
That stuff will work OK if you can't find it without the polymer.
RR



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/9767190
Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Never heard of the AST being added, but if it was in the garden center, it should work OK.  You don't add a tablespoon per half pint jar, you add a tablespoon per 5 half pint jars.
RR




Here is an active grow log that uses Gypsum Plus AST
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16217455

The ingredients for the home depot Gypsum are

Calcium Sulfate Dihydrate..........98%
Anionic Polyacrylamide Emulsion.....2%
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21206153
Quote:

Munchauzen said:
http://www.penningtonfertilizer.com/~/media/Fertilizer/Files/Pennington/08Penn_FastActingGypsum.ashx

that 2% emulsion is a soil conditioner, and a very nasty chemical. its not supposed to be used in agricultural use, as it can contaminate food with acrylamide, a neurotoxin.

don't use it




Best deal I can find on pure gyp 25+outrageous shipping(rate depending on address) =65 for 50 LB
http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Pounds-Calcium-Sulfate-Dihydrate-Gypsum-Fine-Powder-Very-Soluble-/370627469950?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item564b1e627e#shpCntId


Edited by vatman (07/30/15 05:40 PM)


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22021625 - 07/30/15 07:18 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

So your thread got me thinking so i just went to my local lowes and in the very back in the garden section were they keep the lime and grass seed i found this. Was 14 bucks for 30 lbs go check your local lowes or home depot.


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22021717 - 07/30/15 07:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The lady in the section told me they didnt have it. Obviously she looked like she knew little about the store anyways so you might have to do some digging around yourself.


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Offlinemcchieftan
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22022516 - 07/30/15 10:59 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I haven't come across a commercial grower who doesn't use it yet. Perhaps not necessary if you are growing just "to see if it works" but if you want to maximize your yields your going to need it


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Invisiblevatman
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mcchieftan]
    #22022530 - 07/30/15 11:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

yeah next time I head into the city (not this hick town) Ill stop by a few Lowes and Home improvement shops to see what they got. Don't think I would have too much luck finding pure gypsum though. Most are the AST crap witch can be OK or bad.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mcchieftan]
    #22023157 - 07/31/15 05:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mcchieftan said:
I haven't come across a commercial grower who doesn't use it yet. Perhaps not necessary if you are growing just "to see if it works" but if you want to maximize your yields your going to need it




funny, i don't know anyone who uses it in the states.  pretty much a waste IMO.


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: drake89]
    #22023158 - 07/31/15 05:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

if you're in a hick town I'd hit up your local farmer's co-op/seed/feed store


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Offlinemcchieftan
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: drake89]
    #22023162 - 07/31/15 06:01 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

interesting: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15065768#15065768

As I'm largely avoiding experimenting I just trusted this guy. Have you done runs with and without drake?


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mcchieftan]
    #22023198 - 07/31/15 06:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mcchieftan said:
interesting: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15065768#15065768

As I'm largely avoiding experimenting I just trusted this guy. Have you done runs with and without drake?




yeah i never noticed a difference in colonization time, yields, or anything like that.  so i quit buying it.  same story I've heard from other growers.  i just can't imagine sulphur being a limiting nutrient in mushroom growth...


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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: drake89]
    #22023200 - 07/31/15 06:34 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

drake89 said:
Quote:

mcchieftan said:
interesting: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/15065768#15065768

As I'm largely avoiding experimenting I just trusted this guy. Have you done runs with and without drake?




yeah i never noticed a difference in colonization time, yields, or anything like that.  so i quit buying it.  same story I've heard from other growers.  i just can't imagine sulphur being a limiting nutrient in mushroom growth...




if you're gonna add calcium then crushed limestone or crushed oyster shells are much cheaper in my area.  But I skip that as well.  Just fuel pellets, bran, grain, and water for me.


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OfflinepoofterFroth
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: drake89]
    #22023303 - 07/31/15 07:26 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Gypsum is used in a lot of mushroom composting to help aerate the compost piles because of how it adheres to straw. This is also probably a big part of why its used in spawn making. A lot of large scale applications of gypsum I've seen involve adding it after the grains have been cooked, which can help lock up excess moisture.

Here's a link to my journal with a little info on gypsum. :cool:

A good place to find small amounts of pure/powered gypsum is homebrewing stores.

I run spawn jars with & without gypsum regularly and like drake said - never have noticed a difference when used or not.  :shrug:

I'm just beginning my experiments in composting for a suitable agaricus substrate so can't comment on it yet, but I did add gypsum to the pile while turning and rewetting it for the first time.

I also sold a bunch of SRA spawn to a farmer this summer who prepped his beds liberally with gypsum. He's an older produce farmer and grows many organic veggies from the ground so I'm sure he knows whats up and included the gypsum. I didn't ask, but once again its probably mostly included to aerate, while helping to retain moisture in the beds.

I've read it can also help clump certain chemicals in soil and composts.


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Invisiblevatman
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: poofterFroth]
    #22025099 - 07/31/15 04:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Went into the city so far I've found this. Doubt it is the correct stuff. Its in pearl form


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22025104 - 07/31/15 04:37 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Thats it man


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Invisiblevatman
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22025113 - 07/31/15 04:40 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Even though it's in "peral" form? I don't want to tear the bag open to make sure it's not clay or something


Edited by vatman (07/31/15 04:41 PM)


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OfflinePinPornProducer
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22025117 - 07/31/15 04:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

That's the shit, I noticed gypsum helps give more density also, just an fyi


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Invisiblevatman
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: PinPornProducer]
    #22025153 - 07/31/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Bought the stuff here is a picture


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22025156 - 07/31/15 04:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

look at the ingredients its calcium sulphate along with everything else in gypsum thats the good stuff the pearl form doesnt matter itll dissolve in watter anyways that stuff i bought was in pellet form to.


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22025166 - 07/31/15 04:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The only thing you gotta watch for is that "gypsum equivalent" crap. That one doesnt even have ast in it good find. :thumbup:


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Invisiblevatman
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22025172 - 07/31/15 04:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

16 bucks gor a 50 lb bag


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22025207 - 07/31/15 05:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

pretty good deal


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Invisiblelipa

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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22028823 - 08/01/15 02:36 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

vatman said:
Bought this. I should have checked before I let them load it up. Thinking about returning it atm. Don't think it would work









I just wanted to say this is just fine. It is readily available here and I use it often. Don't worry if it looks like clay or a powder. Doesn't matter.


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Offlinemcchieftan
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: lipa]
    #22029581 - 08/01/15 05:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

lipa buys and uses gypsum then...?


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Invisiblelipa

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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mcchieftan]
    #22034074 - 08/02/15 03:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Lots


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Offlinemcchieftan
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: lipa]
    #22036641 - 08/03/15 08:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Curiouser and curiouser...

Have you also tested to see if claims with respect to yield are valid?


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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22037582 - 08/03/15 12:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Sulfur is an organic fungicide. In organic landscape care, gypsum is used sparingly out of concern for the effect that the sulfur has on soil microbiology.


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Invisiblemrbart4444
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: That_Idiot]
    #22037587 - 08/03/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

really i remember rr saying something different


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Invisiblevatman
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: mrbart4444]
    #22037605 - 08/03/15 01:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

"There are a number of organic fungicides growers can use to
prevent plant diseases:
• Sulfur
• Copper
• Oils
• Bicarbonates"

https://www.extension.purdue.edu/extmedia/bp/bp-69-w.pdf

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Safer-Brand-16-oz-Garden-Fungicide-Concentrate-5456/202672526
active ingredient is sulfur.

I don't really think the amount of sulfur in gypsum presents an issue. I can't find anything on the forums saying gypsum is bad at any level.




Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Sulfur tends to make the mix more acidic, and mushroom mycelium loves an acidic substrate.  You probably noticed a difference because your water is alkaline and needs a reduction in pH.
RR




Edited by vatman (08/03/15 01:07 PM)


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Offlinebeastcoast
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Re: Need some clarification on Gypsum [Re: vatman]
    #22039279 - 08/03/15 07:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I mixed in gypsum while innoculating my last set of logs. Probably 1:3 ratio of gypsum to spawn. A little early to say but from what I've seen so far the yields have improved.


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