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Offlinesvampnathan
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Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie
    #22018674 - 07/30/15 07:55 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hello.
I have been reading quite a lot on this forum, impressed by all the knowledge!
But this is my first post, and I will start by asking for help...
I plan to start a small production in Sweden, and it seems that Oyster is a suitable beginners mushroom so I will start with that. But I thought I would ask the pro´s here what strain I best start with.
My conditions are these:
I have a big barn, so space will not be an issue. The ground level is also built against a slope/rock, so its fairly stable in temperature. I am able to insulate a part of this area, but would like to heat it as little as possible but at the same time be able to fruit most of the year.
Outdoor temperatures here varies between 30 deg C (86F) in summer to -10 C (14F) (most common, some years it can be as low as -22 F for some weeks). In the barn the variation is less, I would say 25F - 70F a normal year. Some kind of cold-weather strain I guess would be best?
I plan to use mostly quick growing hardwood wood chips and sawdust as substrate (has a lot of Aspen that needs to be thinned out), and I plan to spawn on barley.
I hope this information is sufficient to give me a hint on what strain I should look for (and I would also appreciate recommendations regarding spawn vendors. There are a few vendors of spawn in sweden, but i believe it is only possible to buy colonized dowels).

Hope some of you will take the time to help me!


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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: svampnathan]
    #22018823 - 07/30/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

How much research have you done? If you haven't already then get a hold of Growing Gourmet and Medicinal Mushrooms by Stamets (although I'd say thats a good starting point rather than anything more)

After that I'd recommend spending a lot of time trawling the forums here using keywords like "inoculate bulk substrate",  "fruiting chamber" ", "sterilizer/pasteurizer" (note US spelling for more search hits!)

Just off the top of my head I'd recommend looking up the user profiles of Solarity, drake89, RogerRabbit, Lipa and Chefinainteasy". Perhaps start off by clicking "main threads only" to get a look at the questions these guys have already asked/answered.

I spent 6 months trying to setup and operation growing oysters on coffee grounds before finding this forum. After that I spent a huge amount of time reading (perhaps 10% of the 40,000) posts by RogerRabbit. Chefinainteasy was also very useful as he recently went from a small basement grow-op to a large commerical operation (lookup mushrooms naturally on facebook for inspiration). Solarity is also an oyster badass, I haven't seen many better flushing columns that his oysters on straw.

1 year and 6 months later and we have are selling 30kg a week of king osyter grown on sterilised supplemented sawdust. Our sales income is now enough to cover our operating costs and basic living costs but there are still expensive aspects of the installation that we need to improve so the cat isn't quite yet in the bag. To date we've spent about 13,000 euros but I wouldn't be surprised if we could have spent half of this if we'd spent more time researching here and more time running trials at a small scale before attempting anything bigger. We've rebuilt our incubation and fruiting spaces 4 or 5 times each!

We make our spawn and we get our strains from mycelia.be (who also sell spawn)

I'm happy to chat more (skype if you like, another european grower!) but I'd seriously recommend getting stuck into research!

Here's a little spreadsheet that I compiled with some of RR's wisdom to get you started :smile:


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OfflineHumbled
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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: mcchieftan]
    #22019686 - 07/30/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid: And for Oysters, my favorite strains are Pearl and Blue. For high scale production you definitely want something that is quality and which has fruits that can be refrigerated for some time.


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Offlinesvampnathan
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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: Humbled]
    #22022877 - 07/31/15 01:59 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the good info, also the spreadsheet seems packed with info, but I have not have the time to read it all yet.

I have done some research, but have of course still a lot to learn. Stamets is a bible that puts me to sleep most nights, and I have probably spent a hundred hours on this forum.
Also I had a brief but quite successful run at growing another kind of mushroom a few years ago, so I have a basic knowledge regarding how to avoid contaminants, the different stages of growing and what mushrooms are. But then I did not have to clone it, I used spores, so I will have to learn how do that.
I think I will use a neat LC-tec i picked up here (stab a sterilized stem with a syringe to create a master, probably you know which tec I refer to?).

Impressive that you have built a business in only a year and a half! I hope to have some income from the production in the future, but I dont count on being able to live of it in the nearest future.
I plan to start in a small, inexpensive way to learn, and then hopefully (if I find it as fun and doable as i hope) expand when I know what investments I really need.
Perhaps it sounded bigger when I wrote production? I only meant a little bit bigger than household needs to start with.

Anyway, thanks for the response, and fun to hear from a European producer (where are you from?).

I think it is the right time for me to start choosing starting strains, and start collecting what I need to grow it when I know what conditions (temp, RH) I should aim at for the different stages. Thats why I asked for recommendations, I realize there are lots of strains out there and hope to start by trying two or three strains that might be right for me.
Or do you think it is too soon for me to start? My hope is to start late this fall.
Psilocelium, should I look for blue and pearl strains because my conditions is suitable for them or are there some other reason (else than being refrigerateable) you recommended me to start there?
In that case, which specific strains should I look for (and where, mycelia.be, is that a good place to order them from?).

Thanks for the response!


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Invisiblesolarity
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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: svampnathan]
    #22024139 - 07/31/15 12:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

For Oysters I use M2191 for winter and M2125 for summer mycelia.be

M2191:


M2125


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Offlinesvampnathan
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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: solarity]
    #22033627 - 08/02/15 01:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Perfect!
M2191 seems to fit my conditions just fine, great suggestion!
Also I believe i foun an oyster in the forrest today, I´ll try to learn the LC-cloning tec on that one. Who knows, it might even be a nice strain...
Would be fun to have a local strain as well.
Or is it just stupid to try to use that one?
I´ll try to upload a picture if anyone is interrested, it might not even be an oyster...
[image][/image]


Edited by svampnathan (08/02/15 01:58 PM)


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Invisiblesolarity
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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: svampnathan]
    #22033924 - 08/02/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Or is it just stupid to try to use that one?



Depends, do you want a business or a hobby?


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Offlinesvampnathan
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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: solarity]
    #22036206 - 08/03/15 02:07 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

For now it´s a hobby/learning process, but hopefully I will be able to expand it and have some income in a few years.
I think I will start in a small and cheap scale, nad when I feel comfortable that I will be able to produce steady in a larger scale I will look for whom to sell to etc, and then do the calculations to see if I can turn it into a business.
But for now, I would say hobby.

Do you think it is an oyster mushroom (or is it impossible to tell from a picture?).


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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: svampnathan]
    #22036404 - 08/03/15 05:30 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry, unless I grew it I can't identify squat! - but there are people on here who can.

As a hobby you can learn from your mistakes and have fun, as a business you want to eliminate as many avenues for error as possible and spawn/strain is a big one.


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OfflineLeningradCowboy
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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: solarity]
    #22048155 - 08/05/15 03:52 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hello Svampnathan.
Can you link the vendors from Sweden?
Have Similar ideas.
nice To se fellow scandinavian here. Hope that you get your operation up and running nicely.


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Offlinesvampnathan
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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: LeningradCowboy]
    #22051725 - 08/06/15 03:20 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LeningradCowboy said:
Can you link the vendors from Sweden?





http://33389.shop.textalk.se/trapluggar/

Its in swedish, but as you can see there is not much information regarding strains and suitable growing conditions.
They only seem to have wooden plugs for inoculating logs (either 100 or 500 pcs). The prices are in Swedish Kronor, 1 US dollar = ca 9 SEK. Probably you can order from abroad and pay in other currencies, but I´m not sure.

I´m looking for cultures that are a little bit more thoroughly described by the vendor, and preferably sawdust spawn or even better liquid cultures.

I believe the vendor mentioned in earlier posts might be better to order from.


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Offlinemcchieftan
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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: svampnathan]
    #22051872 - 08/06/15 05:40 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Out of interest, what makes you keen on LC rather than agar and grain?


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Offlinesvampnathan
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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: mcchieftan]
    #22051981 - 08/06/15 06:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Not sure really...
Never tried agar and it seems a bit easier to contaminate?
Also I previously learned how to inoculate with syringes quite simple and with low risk of contamination, even in non-sterile environments.
I believe I will have a hard time building a lab good enough to work with agar, since the buildings I could use are all old and probably houses lots of molds and stuff.
I really want to produce my own spawn, not ordering it.
But I guess I just assumed it's easier with LC, is that a false assumption?


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Offlinemcchieftan
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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: svampnathan]
    #22052269 - 08/06/15 08:39 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I think its a much debated subject. If you want to see some arguments against look up posts by rogerrabbit containing "LC". He seemed to think it was insufficiently reliable for commercial production. As far as I know all the other commercial growers I've met are not using LC.

To get started you don't need a lab, you can work in a still air box which costs next to nothing (SAB),search around to find plenty of explanations and teks on how to do so.


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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: mcchieftan]
    #22055665 - 08/06/15 09:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Quote:

hiperhiper said:
so what's the right procedure with grains?
I've checked the teks and nobody said anything about this. I didn't know I was not supposed to use syringe on grains. What is cleaning up syringe on agar? what does it mean?




http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18431006
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18430998
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/19208976 http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21889950/page/1




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Offlinedrake89
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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: mcchieftan]
    #22056882 - 08/07/15 07:18 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mcchieftan said:
I think its a much debated subject. If you want to see some arguments against look up posts by rogerrabbit containing "LC". He seemed to think it was insufficiently reliable for commercial production. As far as I know all the other commercial growers I've met are not using LC.

To get started you don't need a lab, you can work in a still air box which costs next to nothing (SAB),search around to find plenty of explanations and teks on how to do so.




I use LC for lion's mane, when I'm running it.  It's difficult to maintain on agar, for me anyway, so i'll buy a new syringe from a sponsor every time I want to start a new batch.  Two or three time a year.  I have seen photos of commercial shiitake liquid culture.  It's probably pretty expensive.  But think about the ease of inoculating a large number of bags in say 10 seconds each rather than about a minute each.


Quote:

Finland
Finnish scientists have done research on liquid spawn for shiitake since the 1980’s. It is actually the only European country where liquid spawn is routinely used for exotic mushrooms.There are only few shiitake companies left nowadays, which are somewhat secretive about the exact way to produce the liquid spawn. Generally spoken, a liquid medium similar to media for cultures on agar is sterilised, of course without the agar which would cause the broth to solidify. A Petri dish with a culture is added to the sterilised and cooled broth and broken into pieces with a sterilised Waring blender. However, tearing up the mycelium may cause degenerative growth. The broth is then added to the large containers with liquid media. By agitating and blowing in clean air, the mycelium obtains sufficient oxygen to grow.
Failures in the past with contaminated liquid spawn have led to the loss of complete batches, an important disadvantage compared to normal grain spawn. Grain spawn may contain contaminants too, but usually the contamination is limited to a few bags. Since the liquid spawn has to be used when it is fresh and cannot be stored, time is lacking to test the spawn before it is applied. An important advantage is the ease with which the spawning process takes place.

Germany: Pilzforum
Dr. Guido Albert and his wife, both of Pilzforum in Hackenheim, recently developed liquid spawn, which can be stored for up to six months, depending on the species and strain used. This is a very important step forwards, as one of the main disadvantages of liquid spawn is the limited keeping period. The prolonged storing period also means that tests to verify the purity can easily be performed. Dr. Albert is of course discrete about his production method and only reveals he often uses sawdust as one of the media ingredients, to induce the production of enzymes, which are able to break down lignin and cellulose. This is supposed to give the mycelium a head start when sprayed on the blocks. Substrate producers who have to cut bags open, put spawn in, and seal again, will save much labour with the following method: they need to wipe the bag surface with an alcohol drenched cloth, inject the liquid spawn and put an adhesive over the hole in the bag. This decreases the risk of contamination considerably. Moreover, the spawn cost is very competitive to that of grain spawn: liquid spawn for one ton of shiitake substrate will cost around 50 Euro. The transportation costs are lower, as only 25 – 50 ml (depending on the substrate composition and moisture content) has to be injected per bag of 2,5 kg substrate. Compared to mixing in grain spawn, liquid spawn is slightly slower to colonise the substrate; however, the total spawn run time can still be limited to 12 weeks for shiitake, using a special strain from Pilzforum.
The method has been tested at some large facilities, but no large scale use is made yet of this revolutionary liquid spawn. A company like Hesse Edelpilzzucht (see Mushroom Business nr. 14) produces his own spawn on wooden sticks, which is cheaper (but slower) than the liquid spawn. Substrate producers, which sterilise in bulk and spawn before filling bags, do not have the advantage of reduced labour, as grain spawn can just as easily be mixed in. Inokulationsmenge: 25 - 50 ml have to be injected per bag.




liquid spawn article


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Offlinesvampnathan
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Re: Oyster strain recommendations needed by rookie [Re: drake89]
    #22065749 - 08/09/15 04:17 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for a bunch of good links, teks and info!
I will have do some more research on this I understand, perhaps I wont go LC after all...
But for me (Probably not the only one) a bit of trial and error also use to help choosing what works  for me.
Since I'm not in a hurry getting a whole operation up and running, fooling around for a while, testing things, might be the best way for me to move forward.
But that said, I'm extremely grateful for all the tips and teks you are providing me with, I feel like I learn a lot every day thanks to you guys!

Also, my first "trial and error" culture tek is probably depending on what kind of starting material I can get a hold of. Seems like agar or LC could be hard for me to order in Sweden (postal service for package where I live is below all standards, always takes 1-2 weeks before I can collect my packages and I have no way of telling what temperatures it has been stored in).
Probably it would be best if I can find a culture that could be sent in a regular envelope, then it's usually fast an easy.

Anyhow, thanks a lot for all the responses!


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