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Anonymous

Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now?
    #2201798 - 12/26/03 09:30 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

This thread doesn't apply to cititzens of the United States. It is specifically addressed to citizens of other countries.

Remember Willie Clintone? Remember how he was your friend, or at least someone that was softer in his foreign policy? Remember how he cut our defense by 33%? Remember how much fun he had having his dick sucked by a girl young enough to be his daughter in the Oval Office? Remember how he lied about it? Remember how the American people were outraged? Remember how that single fact had such a tremendous effect on Gore's race for the presidency? Remember how our economy was still strong enough that Gore should have won?

But the sad fact is that now you guys have to deal with an evil moron in a cowboy suit.

Tell me truthfully, how does it feel?


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: ]
    #2201895 - 12/26/03 11:39 AM (13 years, 10 months ago)

As a soon to be ex-patriot, it makes me mourn the loss of a great ideal"The Constitution".As a present citizen I hang my head in shame over our so called "leaders".I pray that my americanism is not held against me or my family when we leave this trainwreck sometime next fall.
How the Mighty Hath Fallen!
WR  :thumbdown:


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Offlinezeronio
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: ]
    #2202025 - 12/26/03 01:02 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Clinton was very popular around the world and the feeling that "USA is going mad" started with the Monica Lewinsky scandal. Not because of what Clinton did, but because of the reaction. Here nobody would pay attention to who blows presidents dick and what anyone has to say about it.
The common opinion here is that USA is very conservative. You call democrats lefties but in Europe they would be labeled as center-right party, so no wonder why we see Bush as an extreme right christian fundamentalist.


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OfflineLearyfan
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: ]
    #2202094 - 12/26/03 01:45 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

This almost sounds like an anti-Bush thread.




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OfflineCrobih
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: ]
    #2202096 - 12/26/03 01:46 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

I feel sorry for my American brothers.


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Anonymous

Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: zeronio]
    #2202308 - 12/26/03 04:29 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Thanks to everyone for their replies. :smile:

Yes, zeronio.  I think that the citizens of the world would be uneasy with our present Chief.  Many of us in this country are.

But here is how I look at it.

While I don't appreciate the cowboy's swagger I would rather have a man with misguided patriotism than a man who would sell out our "safety" at the drop of a hat.  This is the same take I have on policemen and the police force.  While it is true that there are bad LEO's many of them are doing their job.  I would rather have a cop that wasn't afraid to attack my attackers than someone who was more concerned with "reading them their rights".

I feel that our country's military should be used for one reason and one reason only.  To defend our nation when we are attacked.  I do not think we should have ever been in Iraq and I didn't change my position on that when we caught Saddam.  I think that Saddam's capture was a good thing.

But why in the hell do WE have to be the world's policeman?  Why in the hell do WE have to be the world's savior?  It's nothing but an excuse to interfere in other people's business.

How about we fix the mess our country is in and leave the other countries alone?

And though I truly love the American ideal (freedom) I have held a grudge against this nation for nearly as long as I can remember.  The Constitution was a flawed document and our government one of the most oppressive in the world if you look at how many political prisoners we have.

Truthfully, I feel sorry for the world knowing the military might we still have.  :frown:

So I apologize to my fellow citizens of the world. 

And to my fellow countrymen, I say, for shame.  WE are responsible because WE are the voters.

MM


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: ]
    #2202331 - 12/26/03 04:53 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Mr Mushrooms writes:

The Constitution was a flawed document and our government one of the most oppressive in the world if you look at how many political prisoners we have.

How many political prisoners does the US have? I am aware of none.

pinky


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Anonymous

Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: Phred]
    #2202465 - 12/26/03 06:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

You are using a different definition for the phrase "political prisoner" than I am.

If we have a War on Drug Users then by extrapolation we should have Prisoners of War in that engagement. If a prisoner of war isn't a political prisoner, what is?

MM


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Offlineenimatpyrt
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: whiterasta]
    #2202477 - 12/26/03 06:30 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

whiterasta said:
As a soon to be ex-patriot, it makes me mourn the loss of a great ideal"The Constitution".




ex-patriate, not ex-patriot :smile:
Quote:


As a present citizen I hang my head in shame over our so called "leaders".I pray that my americanism is not held against me or my family when we leave this trainwreck sometime next fall.
How the Mighty Hath Fallen!
WR  :thumbdown:




Bye Bye, go live in some liberal land like Holland where you pay massive taxes for social programs for all.


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: ]
    #2202500 - 12/26/03 06:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Mr Mushrooms writes:

You are using a different definition for the phrase "political prisoner" than I am.

Indeed. I use the universally-accepted one, you use a hyperbolic one.

If we have a War on Drug Users then by extrapolation we should have Prisoners of War in that engagement.

LOL!

The "War on Drugs" is a metaphor. So is the "War on Poverty" and the "War on Illiteracy" and the "War on Crime" and the upcoming "War on Obesity". Besides, the metaphor doesn't even say the "War on Drug Users". It's WOD, not WODU.

If a prisoner of war isn't a political prisoner, what is?

POW's are not political prisoners. Solzhenitsyn was a political prisoner. Iraqis held in Hussein's prisons for being critical of the Ba'athist regime were political prisoners. Drug users are no more political prisoners than are pimps, prostitutes, or bookies.

Besides, there is no country in the world of any size who doesn't have people imprisoned (or worse) for drug offenses. Why single out the US?

pinky


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InvisibleinfidelGOD
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: Phred]
    #2202542 - 12/26/03 07:20 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Besides, there is no country in the world of any size who doesn't have people imprisoned (or worse) for drug offenses. Why single out the US?

oh I don't know, maybe because we're supposed to be a beacon of liberty and human rights and all that?

and maybe because some of us live here and it will do little good to bitch about drug laws in other countries..

and because the US is the driving force behind the global war on drugs. it makes sense to tackle the problem at it's source, doesn't it?

as an aside did you know that we release an annual report on human rights in other countries? kinda funny considering our prison population and our own human rights record... or have we forgotten so soon the worst possible violation of human rights? it wasn't so long ago..


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Anonymous

Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: Phred]
    #2202569 - 12/26/03 07:34 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Of course I was using hyperbole.

I don't care if it is WOD.  That is entirely different from what it is, which is a war on drug users.  Taken literally those two phrases are completely different.

Yes, your meaning is the universally accepted one but I use it differently.

To me anyone who is imprisoned, rightly or wrongly, for adhering to the basic values and freedoms given to white men at the time the constitution was written are political prisoners.

I singled out the United States in this instance because this thread is about a dichotomy between the US and the rest of the world.

There is a great book I recommend to everyone interested in the WODU.  It's called Drugs and Rights by Douglas N. Husak.  It is from the Cambridge Studies in Philosophy and Public Policy.  In the first page this sentence is found:

"Most of the opposition to the level of current expenditures for the War on Drugs has come from congressional Democrats who argue that the commitment from Republicans is too meager."

:thumbup:

:lol:


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InvisibleDoctorJ
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: Phred]
    #2202686 - 12/26/03 08:50 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

The "War on Drugs" is a metaphor. So is the "War on Poverty" and the "War on Illiteracy" and the "War on Crime" and the upcoming "War on Obesity". Besides, the metaphor doesn't even say the "War on Drug Users". It's WOD, not WODU.





How many people are going to die or be imprisoned at the hands of our government in the upcoming "War on Obesity"? I doubt very many. I'm sorry, but I think your comparisons are BS. And "War on Crime" has nothing to do with it either- the "War on Crime" is really just another way to say "protecting individual rights".

The war on drugs is a real war with real casualties. And i think you will agree that it does not follow logically or ethically that we should have this war. I know you like to nitpick about semantics, but please dont gloss this issue over like that.


Quote:

Besides, there is no country in the world of any size who doesn't have people imprisoned (or worse) for drug offenses. Why single out the US?





Because we are the richest and have the most power. Because we heavily influence the rest of the world. Because we are supposed to set an example of egalitarianism to the world. Because we have a much heralded constitution that prohibits prohibition. Because our government has decided to become the police of the world. Because we should fucking know better.

Quote:

Drug users are no more political prisoners than are pimps, prostitutes, or bookies.




pimps, prostitutes, and bookies? Sounds to me like faithful lassiez faire capitalists being railroaded by an evil commie government that thinks it knows whats best for the individual better than he himself does.


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peace, pot, and microdot!


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: enimatpyrt]
    #2202711 - 12/26/03 09:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

ex-patriate, not ex-patriot 



As defined by the "Patriot Act" the statement stands as written with the double entandre.

Quote:

Bye Bye, go live in some liberal land like Holland where you pay massive taxes for social programs for all. 




There are worse things than paying taxes for social programs...such as paying taxes for social pograms(sp. correct :wink: ) like the WOD and the undermining of workers rights.
Yours is a mindset I try to avoid lest I take the constitutionaly mandated course and using my second amendment responsibility rid the country of traitorous psuedo-patriots who have undermined the word and intent of the founding fathers.
Now say what BEEATCH!
WR:rasta:  I


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: Phred]
    #2202748 - 12/26/03 09:32 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Pinky the term clusterhead seems to fit :wink:

Quote:

The "War on Drugs" is a metaphor 



Metaphors do not have troops in many countries spraying herbacides,funding insurectionists,intimidating and relocating indiginous people.
Metaphors do not detain and incarcerate citizens at a greater rate than actual crimes.
There is NO moral imperative against drug use,only political and legal.
The RICO seizure laws are based on maritime military law.
When you have witnessed an armored vehicle and SWAT team perform an execution of search warrant in a drug case(NO drugs found,based on black plastic covering a window destroyed by a fallen branch)you would then have a clue that this is a genuine war and many of the tools of war are being used because of this "metaphor" you have swallowed,hook,line and sinker.
To anyone who believes the WOD is "just a metaphor" I think Pinky's term clusterhead is what I will call you all from now on :shake:
WR:rasta:


edited for stupid mistake by WR


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To old for this place


Edited by whiterasta (12/26/03 10:09 PM)


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: ]
    #2202758 - 12/26/03 09:37 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

M_M If I were not an American I might be a little afraid to say exactly how I felt."your either with us or against us" remember?
WR :shake:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: whiterasta]
    #2202802 - 12/26/03 09:53 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Luvvies term clusterhead



Perhaps you could point me to where I used that term?


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblewhiterasta
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #2202817 - 12/26/03 10:06 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)



My complete Bad!!! :nut: Had a wife in my ear and it affected my typing :eyemouth:I will edit immediatly!Please accept my apology :confused:
WR :tongue:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: whiterasta]
    #2202822 - 12/26/03 10:12 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Had a wife in my ear



That must really hurt.



Quote:

it affected my typing



If that's all it does, you're more man than I.  :wink:



Quote:

I will edit immediatly



No need.



Quote:

Please accept my apology



Of course.



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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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OfflinetrendalM
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Re: Cititzens of the World: How do you like us now? [Re: ]
    #2202857 - 12/26/03 10:47 PM (13 years, 10 months ago)

How do I feel?

Personally I'm scared shitless.

Also, one thing this little escapade in Iraq has re-affirmed for me is that it is the citizens of a country who suffer most when their administration goes awry. I think you (citizens of the USA) should all be as much, if not much more so, scared shitless than I am.


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The story book's been read
And every line believed
Curriculum's been set
Logic is a threat
Reason searched and seized


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