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Convergence
indefineable


Registered: 07/03/15
Posts: 160
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Pumping up with Pre-cursors
#22017526 - 07/29/15 09:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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There was a thread I read on another board where somebody tried injecting their cuzcoensis with L-dopa as a precursor to the desired alkaloids in the cacti before harvesting to increase the yield. This failed badly and damaged the plant with deep bruising and apparantly little penetration other than the localised area that was injected. I just found some interesting information about using DMSO to allow the plant to absorb the precursor through surface spraying instead of injections. The article even stated that this method could be used with plants other than cacti to increase yield when combined with the appropriate precursor. Has anyone tried DMSO method?
http://cdn.preterhuman.net/texts/drugs/nansnook3c/tek/spf_dmso.html
This is the article.
-------------------- “Reality is what we take to be true. What we take to be true is what we believe. What we believe is based upon our perceptions. What we perceive depends upon what we look for. What we look for depends upon what we think. What we think depends upon what we perceive. What we perceive determines what we believe. What we believe determines what we take to be true. What we take to be true is our reality.”
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MadBotanist


Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 279
Loc: Wonderland
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: Convergence]
#22018011 - 07/30/15 12:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You have to handle DMSO with caution and I would like to see studies on the injection of precursors and whether not there actually effective in increasing the overall content. I think there's more room for harm than benefit, but one thing I have been interested in is withholding water and watering with the precursors/Amino acids. I know many top of the line cannabis fertilizer lines include full spectrum amino acids to help the plants and microorganisms synthesize various nutrients and growth regulators so it could be feasible. If money wasn't so tight I would have tried it myself and then performed an A/B extraction to determine the results vs. the control(s).
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kosmokratorshaman
Cosmic Creator

Registered: 05/13/15
Posts: 1,206
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: MadBotanist]
#22018372 - 07/30/15 05:02 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to take an extra 2-3 inches?
I am finding all the claims being made about this chemical and that chemical is hype. 6BAP isn't doing dick on my cacti.
-------------------- I am.
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El Torcho
Time for tea?


Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 1,365
Loc: Lone Pine Hill
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Quote:
kosmokratorshaman said: I am finding all the claims being made about this chemical and that chemical is hype.

Go organic.
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"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit" ~Dennis McKenna "There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to." ~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama
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kosmokratorshaman
Cosmic Creator

Registered: 05/13/15
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: El Torcho]
#22018418 - 07/30/15 05:26 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
El Torcho said:
Quote:
kosmokratorshaman said: I am finding all the claims being made about this chemical and that chemical is hype.

Go organic.
Once I get the greenhouse built I might just do that.
-------------------- I am.
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MadBotanist


Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 279
Loc: Wonderland
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: El Torcho]
#22018648 - 07/30/15 07:43 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Those amino acids can be acquired organically
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Convergence
indefineable


Registered: 07/03/15
Posts: 160
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: MadBotanist]
#22021802 - 07/30/15 08:01 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ive ordered some 6bap to try but i hear its useless to use it outside of growing season, as you cant really induce pupping during dormancy.
-------------------- “Reality is what we take to be true. What we take to be true is what we believe. What we believe is based upon our perceptions. What we perceive depends upon what we look for. What we look for depends upon what we think. What we think depends upon what we perceive. What we perceive determines what we believe. What we believe determines what we take to be true. What we take to be true is our reality.”
Edited by Convergence (07/30/15 08:01 PM)
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Convergence
indefineable


Registered: 07/03/15
Posts: 160
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: MadBotanist]
#22021813 - 07/30/15 08:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
MadBotanist said: Those amino acids can be acquired organically
Im interested. How do you organically increase alkaloid levels while growing? How do you organically induce pupping? If theres a way Id love to try it.
-------------------- “Reality is what we take to be true. What we take to be true is what we believe. What we believe is based upon our perceptions. What we perceive depends upon what we look for. What we look for depends upon what we think. What we think depends upon what we perceive. What we perceive determines what we believe. What we believe determines what we take to be true. What we take to be true is our reality.”
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spaceman101
Friend to all



Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 11,726
Loc: In heaven bored as hell
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Quote:
kosmokratorshaman said: Wouldn't it be easier and cheaper to take an extra 2-3 inches?
I am finding all the claims being made about this chemical and that chemical is hype. 6BAP isn't doing dick on my cacti.
Hey kosmo could you give me some info on how you used your BAP6?
Like what ppm did you cut it down to?
Also how did you apply it to your plants areoles and did you try different ppm on each rib as well as manually agitate some areoles before application?
PM me if you want
-------------------- ------------- Check out my Pollen Trade thread for spreading Good genetics far and wide Great Vendors thread where we can discuss "Non Shroomery" Vendors that sell good products worth checking into A few things I wanna get my hands on check it out and let me know if you have any of these Need help getting started growing mushrooms Here's The Noob Forum
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kosmokratorshaman
Cosmic Creator

Registered: 05/13/15
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: spaceman101]
#22021977 - 07/30/15 08:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Actually that is a good question. I read that it should be mixed at about 2%. Cant find the source again. I should do more research of course.
I mixed it with petroleum jelly. I applied it to two san pedros, on two areoles each. One was topical application. The other areole on each, I punctured with a toothpick covered in the bap mixture.
On my bridgesii, I just applied it topically to three areoles. It seems to be blacking the areoles though.
I applied it a second time on each after two weeks.
I plan to do more research and try again. I have ten grams of the stuff.
-------------------- I am.
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MadBotanist


Registered: 11/23/14
Posts: 279
Loc: Wonderland
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: Convergence]
#22024204 - 07/31/15 12:33 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Convergence said:
Quote:
MadBotanist said: Those amino acids can be acquired organically
Im interested. How do you organically increase alkaloid levels while growing? How do you organically induce pupping? If theres a way Id love to try it.
I was skimming through a book at the library and it was talking about a technique to induce pups by drilling the apicle meristem (as you would do by topping cannabis plants to induce branching)
As far as increasing alkaloid content you're probably better off just providing all the nutrients and minerals it needs and mimicking its natural environment to the best of your ability (my cuttings in the greenhouse are way healthier than the ones in full sun for example)
Make sure you fertilize accordingly and add microbes to the soil when you prepare your mix because they are the powerhouse for your plant breaking down compounds in the soil into usable forms of nutrients and growth regulators
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El Torcho
Time for tea?


Registered: 04/16/15
Posts: 1,365
Loc: Lone Pine Hill
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: MadBotanist]
#22038620 - 08/03/15 05:35 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ke after a re-pot with a pup or two.
--------------------
"Well it sounds trivial, but the key insight is . . . . . you don't know shit" ~Dennis McKenna "There is more to human existence and to reality itself than science can ever give us access to." ~His Holiness, The 14th Dalai Lama
Edited by El Torcho (06/30/16 05:13 PM)
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kosmokratorshaman
Cosmic Creator

Registered: 05/13/15
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Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: El Torcho]
#22040868 - 08/04/15 06:23 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Mine are pupping like mad.
-------------------- I am.
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Convergence
indefineable


Registered: 07/03/15
Posts: 160
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Does BAP work during winter, if the winter here is mostly sunny, minimum 8 to 12 celcius at night, maximum 18-22 during the day?
Is BAP a bad idea for a t.bridgesii monstruosa? How about BAP for cacti that dont normally offset like a T.Scop?
-------------------- “Reality is what we take to be true. What we take to be true is what we believe. What we believe is based upon our perceptions. What we perceive depends upon what we look for. What we look for depends upon what we think. What we think depends upon what we perceive. What we perceive determines what we believe. What we believe determines what we take to be true. What we take to be true is our reality.”
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karode13
Tāne Mahuta




Registered: 05/19/05
Posts: 15,290
Loc: LV-426
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: Convergence] 1
#22043688 - 08/04/15 06:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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BAP will only produce results when the plants are actively growing. You can apply in Winter but nothing will happen until Spring and the plants resumes growing again. Unless your plants continue to grow slowly during Winter that is. If this is the case it may work. May being the key word.
Using precursors and BAP is kind of futile unless it's a rare species, and then you'd only use BAP. Growing more plants is far superior than doping plants with stuff that isn't even really proven to produce any positive results. And any positive results that have emerged could of been achieved if they'd just grown 1 extra cactus.
BAP can also produce lots of pups but then they can die not long afterwards as the plants can't sustain that much growth and people overdose when applicating it. I see noobs do this to their plants and I just think why? Why not just cut the tip off the cactus and graft that onto a suitable stock. The cactus thats tip was cut will pup again and the grafted tip will grow faster than any BAP'd pups will.
I just think people jumping to chemicals instead of mastering grafting is the easy and, more importantly, lazy way out. It doesn't produce great results. Just look at what the Japanese achieved with Astrophytum over a decade or so of mass propagation using grafting techniques. I don't see them BAPing cactus, so why should we. It doesn't work any better than traditional propagation methods. *In my opinion*
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kosmokratorshaman
Cosmic Creator

Registered: 05/13/15
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: karode13]
#22044328 - 08/04/15 08:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I understood it as a way to force pupping on a plant that is not likely to pup on its own.
-------------------- I am.
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spaceman101
Friend to all


Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 11,726
Loc: In heaven bored as hell
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: karode13]
#22044593 - 08/04/15 09:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
karode13 said: BAP will only produce results when the plants are actively growing. You can apply in Winter but nothing will happen until Spring and the plants resumes growing again. Unless your plants continue to grow slowly during Winter that is. If this is the case it may work. May being the key word.
Using precursors and BAP is kind of futile unless it's a rare species, and then you'd only use BAP. Growing more plants is far superior than doping plants with stuff that isn't even really proven to produce any positive results. And any positive results that have emerged could of been achieved if they'd just grown 1 extra cactus.
BAP can also produce lots of pups but then they can die not long afterwards as the plants can't sustain that much growth and people overdose when applicating it. I see noobs do this to their plants and I just think why? Why not just cut the tip off the cactus and graft that onto a suitable stock. The cactus thats tip was cut will pup again and the grafted tip will grow faster than any BAP'd pups will.
I just think people jumping to chemicals instead of mastering grafting is the easy and, more importantly, lazy way out. It doesn't produce great results. Just look at what the Japanese achieved with Astrophytum over a decade or so of mass propagation using grafting techniques. I don't see them BAPing cactus, so why should we. It doesn't work any better than traditional propagation methods. *In my opinion*
Hey karode I truly agree with your statements above but I also believe that proper small uses of BAP^ could be beneficial if people don't go overboard with it. I don't "ATM" have many large grafting stocks "I really need to get my hands on a couple PC pedros for this reason" so BAP6 might be an easy way to cause one of my better trichs to put off 1 or 2 pups. If I were to apply to 1 or 2 areoles at max do you think the cactus would be strong enough to support them??
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Convergence
indefineable


Registered: 07/03/15
Posts: 160
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: spaceman101]
#22044873 - 08/04/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I also agree in sentiment to what karode is saying, Im simply curious. You could think about it like steroids and performance enhancers for humans instead of training hard and diet control. I think I would only consider BAP for trichocereus anyway.
At the same time, I hear similar arguments against using fertilisers with cacti, how they bloat and become susceptible to attack, or even split. Furthermore, if BAP is simply a hormone induction, how is this any different to more acceptable hormonal treatments like gibberellic acid for seed germination, or clonex for striking roots on cuttings?
-------------------- “Reality is what we take to be true. What we take to be true is what we believe. What we believe is based upon our perceptions. What we perceive depends upon what we look for. What we look for depends upon what we think. What we think depends upon what we perceive. What we perceive determines what we believe. What we believe determines what we take to be true. What we take to be true is our reality.”
Edited by Convergence (08/04/15 10:21 PM)
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kosmokratorshaman
Cosmic Creator

Registered: 05/13/15
Posts: 1,206
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: Convergence]
#22045579 - 08/05/15 01:47 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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So far I have zero pups from 7 treated areoles. Its been 3 weeks.
-------------------- I am.
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akosi
Stranger
Registered: 03/08/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Couldn't you just put l-dopa in the soil? I recently put some mucuna pruriens bean powder (l-dopa containing) on the soil of my plants and watered it into the dirt. Hope I don't kill it!
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kosmokratorshaman
Cosmic Creator


Registered: 05/13/15
Posts: 1,206
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: akosi]
#22127927 - 08/22/15 05:06 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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So far not impressed with 6bap .
-------------------- I am.
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spaceman101
Friend to all



Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 11,726
Loc: In heaven bored as hell
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Did your stuff come labeled 6BAP or BAP-6? Also message me with the company you got it from please.
-------------------- ------------- Check out my Pollen Trade thread for spreading Good genetics far and wide Great Vendors thread where we can discuss "Non Shroomery" Vendors that sell good products worth checking into A few things I wanna get my hands on check it out and let me know if you have any of these Need help getting started growing mushrooms Here's The Noob Forum
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kosmokratorshaman
Cosmic Creator


Registered: 05/13/15
Posts: 1,206
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Pumping up with Pre-cursors [Re: spaceman101]
#22128662 - 08/22/15 09:07 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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labeled 6-benzylaminopurine...got it from ebay. has no company info on it.
-------------------- I am.
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