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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? 1
#22014465 - 07/29/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Hey guys I was just wondering how often you like to dunk your grains prior to spawning. Is there a way to know if your grains aren't at the proper moisture content after opening a fully colonized grain jar? (I'm using WBS btw).
If the bulk supplies the majority of the moisture content, then why go the extra mile and take a risk of overly hydrated grains? Some people say soaking them for 10 minutes is the best, others say 20 minutes or longer.
Also, wouldn't the soak water take off the outer coating of mycelium and therefore make the grains more exposed to contams. That's what the pics of people doing this step looks like, seems like a waste of mycelium laden water.
Edited by Psilosoulful (07/29/15 11:22 AM)
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Mr.PhilCybin
Master Baiter


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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22014501 - 07/29/15 11:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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1- some people like to soak after full colonization right before spawning (I have good results with this; it recovers and colonizes faster) usually 15ish minutes is good. you shouldn't see (too much) liquid in the jar; besides metabolites and sweat.
2- most people that will soak the spawn, like to mix the sub slightly on the dryer side to prevent too much moisture in the sub, since the spawn will have a little more water with it. the risk of over-hydrating them is minimal as long as you don't soak for too long.
3-there is a little myc in the water since you just broke up the grains, so feel free to collect some of the water and use it, but know that you need to follow sterile proceedure if you want it to be useful. if you're not going to use it to 'noc anything up, you can do it in open air and toss it.
more experienced growers please feel encouraged to correct me if I'm wrong here, but most of this stuff is pretty common and basic.
hope it helps
-------------------- I'm stupid, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is smart. I'm ugly, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is beautiful. I'm a loser, Falcon91Wolvrn03 is a winner. Someday, I hope to be like Falcon91Wolvrn03 but secretly know I never will.
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36fuckin5
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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22014505 - 07/29/15 11:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Nobody has ever said it was necessary. I actually see absolutely 0 benefit from it, and RR agreed with me. If your grains are fully hydrated to begin with and your jars colonize in a reasonable amount of time you won't have an issue.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22014508 - 07/29/15 11:31 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's not necessary at all, not in the same way dunking your cakes are. With grains your substrate holds a shit ton of moisture in it, almost all that the grains need. The grains are just vessels for spreading inoculation points.
With that being said I dunk all of my grains, whether they look hydrated or not, for 20 minutes. Someone soaked them over night, over 12 hours (I believe it was Elastic Tiger who made a thread about it), and they went on to colonize just fine. I don't think time matters so much as actually doing it. I've done side-by-sides with dunked and not dunked grains with a clone and dunking is faster and produced better.
The mycelium is in the grain, not on the outside. It retracts when you break it up.
IMO, run a test. Dunk one set from a clone and don't dunk another. That's how I came to the conclusion that I'll be dunking them from now on.
EDIT:
I also don't mix my sub any differently but I do ring out the moisture from the grains and then spawn. I think a little extra water is not the end of the world. Then again my sub is always to field capacity.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
Edited by taGyo (07/29/15 11:32 AM)
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: taGyo]
#22014541 - 07/29/15 11:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well grains also provide most of the nutrients you need for fruiting. And since they hold water, they serve that purpose too.
For the best yields everything needs to be as hydrated as possible. If your jars aren't super quick, a dunk can help. Either way it definitely won't hurt anything.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: 36fuckin5]
#22014546 - 07/29/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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As long as your sub isn't a sopping mess when you put it in you're good to go.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: taGyo]
#22014579 - 07/29/15 11:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Cool, I might run a test with my next mono's an see what performs better come fruiting time, dunked grain tubs vs undunked grains. Thanks for the info!
Edited by Psilosoulful (07/29/15 12:40 PM)
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eatyualive
Eat's You Alive :)



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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: Psilosoulful]
#22015574 - 07/29/15 03:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I do think its unnecessary.
Edited by eatyualive (07/29/15 03:29 PM)
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: eatyualive]
#22015959 - 07/29/15 04:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
eatyualive said: I do think its unnecessary.
I didn't dunk my grains for the recent tub that I spawned today, I couldn't wait to mix it up!! 
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blackout


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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: Psilosoulful] 1
#22020860 - 07/30/15 04:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Has anybody weighed grains before & after a dunk, to see how much moisture they took on? I was searching before and found nothing.
I soaked a colonised large cake of barley & coir and it took on very little water after several hours, i.e. little increase in weight. After a few flushes it took on a lot more, too much in the end.
I have been getting coir to field capacity, weigh it in a container and add more water and microwave it until its back down to its original weight. This allows you to use higher power and really get it steamed well and more evenly. If you drove off an additional 100g it would allow you to pour 100ml/100g water into your grains to hydrate, shake up the grains in the jar, add water to the jar and then dump the lot into your coir which is now too dry. This way you waste no myc from the grain surface. Actually if the grains do absorb a lot then you might not want to dry out the coir as much.
I did weigh a GLC jar before but cannot remember how much moisture it took on, some weight was the water I could not syringe out.
A trick to get grains to absorb moisture well is to overhydrate them on purpose and dry them out again in an oven or microwave or perhaps a desiccant chamber. This seems to plump them up and when they are dried they remain a little larger than normal grains at that moisture level. I have cooked grains and dried them out to drier than they originally were, i.e. I might have got 100g of grain, cooked until it was 220g, dried in a microwave until it was 90g. Then inject LC and it does seem to suck up the moisture easily, far easier than a dry uncooked grain would. It is still slow to absorb so you do not add all the moisture back at once.
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taGyo
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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: blackout]
#22020942 - 07/30/15 05:10 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'll weigh them next time I get my hands on a fully colonized grain. I'll also get a clone and document a side-by-side with dunked grains versus un-dunked.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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stevo


Registered: 04/11/05
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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? *DELETED* [Re: blackout]
#22020948 - 07/30/15 05:11 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Post deleted by stevo
Reason for deletion: .
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: stevo]
#22020978 - 07/30/15 05:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
stevo said: Wouldnt dunking grain spawn leech some nutrition though?
That's why I was against dunking grains, but turns out the mycelium is stored inside the grain and dunking helps restore lost moisture during colonizing. If all the experienced growers are having good results with this method, then I'm definitely doing this for my next mono!
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: stevo]
#22020982 - 07/30/15 05:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
stevo said: Wouldnt dunking grain spawn leech some nutrition though?
Why?
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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filthyknees
no coincidence


Registered: 03/08/13
Posts: 6,283
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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: taGyo]
#22021019 - 07/30/15 05:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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think about how people use soak water for lc
-------------------- But if you're in a hurry, and really got to go If you're in a hurry, might have to find out slow That it's one thing to try and another to fly You get there quicker just a step at a time It's one thing to bark, another to bite The show ain't over till you pack up at night
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Psilosoulful

Registered: 09/05/14
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Re: Do you think dunking grains is a necessary step?? [Re: filthyknees]
#22026170 - 07/31/15 09:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
filthyknees said: think about how people use soak water for lc
That's a good point, there has to be leftover mycelial fragments from soaking grains, but the overall consensus is that re-hydrating grains results in better overall flushes. I can't wait to do a side by side experiment for this method, it's really interesting stuff. It really goes to show how resillient mycelium is once it gets a hold of the grains.
Edited by Psilosoulful (07/31/15 09:07 PM)
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