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InvisiblecowsRmeat
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Re: Khat, Catha edulis Root Sucker Propagation [Re: karode13]
    #22001435 - 07/26/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

:unwanted:

Had to call me out on that, didn't you? :lol:
Yeah, my weeding regimen has been a bit weak lately...


What's sad is that I didn't even realize it was there... I had to really study the pic for a few seconds to find it...:shrug:


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Invisiblekarode13Facebook
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Re: Khat, Catha edulis Root Sucker Propagation [Re: cowsRmeat]
    #22001464 - 07/26/15 07:29 PM (8 years, 8 months ago)

:lol:


Yeah sorry. I can't help it. I started this career pulling weeds and I still pull weeds today. If I see one I need to kill it or point it out to someone who can. Grass can get out of hand in pots if left to seed. You never get rid of it.


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Invisiblenaum
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Re: Khat, Catha edulis Root Sucker Propagation [Re: cowsRmeat] * 1
    #22002462 - 07/27/15 12:02 AM (8 years, 8 months ago)

You really have to watch them for an entire season or two in order to be able to label them and even then environmental factors place a huge role--much bigger than stated on forums traditionally. The same plant can also have grow that looks much more divergent than two separate plants.

Do you know the source of your plant/seed? It looks like either the S. African "wild-type" seeds that were floating around a couple of years ago or the PHf2 cross that was floating around a few years ago.


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InvisiblecowsRmeat
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Re: Khat, Catha edulis Root Sucker Propagation [Re: naum]
    #22005008 - 07/27/15 02:58 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

karode13 said:
:lol:


Yeah sorry. I can't help it. I started this career pulling weeds and I still pull weeds today. If I see one I need to kill it or point it out to someone who can. Grass can get out of hand in pots if left to seed. You never get rid of it.





Yeah, I often times get very lazy with my weeding and it comes back to bite me in the butt. My poor pineapple plant has been invaded with grass too. Hearing someone else point it out gives me good motivation to go do it, though.


Quote:

naum said:
You really have to watch them for an entire season or two in order to be able to label them and even then environmental factors place a huge role--much bigger than stated on forums traditionally. The same plant can also have grow that looks much more divergent than two separate plants.

Do you know the source of your plant/seed? It looks like either the S. African "wild-type" seeds that were floating around a couple of years ago or the PHf2 cross that was floating around a few years ago.





Well, I planted it from seed right at about a year ago... I got the seed from A**z*n.com (you can delete that if I crossed the line there). So IDK really what type it is supposed to be, I'm pretty sure it didn't specify on the site or on the packaging... :shrug:


--------------------
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree.
'Which road do I take?' she asked.
'Where do you want to go?' was his response.
'I don't know', Alice answered.
'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'




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Invisiblenaum
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Re: Khat, Catha edulis Root Sucker Propagation [Re: cowsRmeat] * 1
    #22005035 - 07/27/15 03:05 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

In that case, I would imagine you were re-sold seed from the S. African "wild-type" seed supplier. He flooded the market with some of the freshest viable seed in quite some time. Really interesting progeny out of his seed that doesn't fall into the categories red vs. white or even broad vs. narrow leaf.

The supplier's back story is really fascinating. He was a commercial khat farmer before S. Africa made it illegal, but after the ban he flooded the bulk market with fresh seed and shared lots of really good advice, pictures, and stories about khat varieties and cultivation on various forums--not here though if I remember correctly.


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InvisiblecowsRmeat
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Re: Khat, Catha edulis Root Sucker Propagation [Re: naum]
    #22005155 - 07/27/15 03:35 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Wow. Yeah, I was pretty impressed with the germination rate I had from them after reading how picky they were to start. I think I started with ~15 seeds and had 4 germinate... Only this one made it though. I went on a week long vacation and came back to all the sprouts dying and only this one pulled through...

So you would say this one wouldn't fall into Red/White or Broad/Narrow category? It's just it's own type that this guy bred or something?


BTW, thanks for sharing some of the (probable) history of the lineage of these seeds. It's good to have info like that about plants you have.

Now that I am thinking about it, are Khat plants self-fertile? Will just this one by itself potentially produce seed?


--------------------
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree.
'Which road do I take?' she asked.
'Where do you want to go?' was his response.
'I don't know', Alice answered.
'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'




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Invisiblenaum
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Re: Khat, Catha edulis Root Sucker Propagation [Re: cowsRmeat] * 1
    #22005305 - 07/27/15 04:10 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Check out this thread [shaman-australis.com].

I was just saying that the seed from his S. African "wild-type" plants gave really diverse progeny that doesn't really fall into the whole schema that you'll see listed on forums. A large part of the reason for this is that people don't and didn't think you could grow khat from seed, but you can and it's very easy even with no so fresh seed in my experience. Because only clones were propagated it led to little genetic and phenotypic isolates which became known as red, white, etc.

I've seen the exact same plant (from S. Africa no less) show super narrow leaf and super broad leaf at the same time. I think the whole narrow/broad leaf classification should be put on hold with what we are learning about khat by growing it.

Interestingly, these seed from S. Africa gave rise to progeny that was very similar to the PH F2 hybrid seed that was floating around which was the F2 cross of a a "white" strain (from the Vienna Botanical Garden) with a narrowleaved strain. Looks like breeding very distinct genetic/phenotypic isolates led back to more wild-type plants like one would expect.

Catha edulis is self-fertile so yes a single plant can yield seed.


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Khat, Catha edulis Root Sucker Propagation [Re: naum]
    #22005340 - 07/27/15 04:16 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

naum said:

Catha edulis is self-fertile so yes a single plant can yield seed.




Good to know. How often do they flower? If you have any idea. Never read about that.


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Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
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Invisiblenaum
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Re: Khat, Catha edulis Root Sucker Propagation [Re: ferrel_human] * 1
    #22005743 - 07/27/15 05:37 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

ferrel_human said:
How often do they flower? If you have any idea. Never read about that.




It is highly dependent on a lot of factors. I don't think there is really any set time frame. I had heard that it was about 5-7 years from seedling to seed production, but a plant I gave friend that was a year or two old ended up throwing flowers this year in a pot.  It didn't set seed, but it really surprised me.

The mature specimens I've seen flower and seed every year, but that is only several specimens in a couple of climates.

Flowers only happen on opposite pattern growth so if you see that, your plant is potentially mature enough to flower and then seed. If you want flowers/seed, don't prune that growth and I'd error on the side of very conservative pruning if any at all if seed is your end goal.


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InvisiblecowsRmeat
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Re: Khat, Catha edulis Root Sucker Propagation [Re: naum]
    #22006308 - 07/27/15 06:56 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

^^^^Good info, thanks!


And that link you posted is AWESOME! I can't believe some of the pics that guy posted.

Here are some of them, for those of you who don't click the link-



And that leads me to another question. That third pic was described as a whole bunch of khat cuttings that were rooted. How does this guy have such success rooting such a plant?


--------------------
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree.
'Which road do I take?' she asked.
'Where do you want to go?' was his response.
'I don't know', Alice answered.
'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'




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Invisiblenaum
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Re: Khat, Catha edulis Root Sucker Propagation [Re: cowsRmeat]
    #22006368 - 07/27/15 07:06 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

He says cuttings, but I suspect he actually means suckers based on the width of those stems.

In either case, cuttings aren't too hard. I have decent success with them without rooting hormone or any other such tricks. Just need good fresh growth and to take them during late spring and summer. I can root them in just plain water most of the time.


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InvisiblecowsRmeat
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Re: Khat, Catha edulis Root Sucker Propagation [Re: naum]
    #22006450 - 07/27/15 07:27 PM (8 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

naum said:
In either case, cuttings aren't too hard. I have decent success with them without rooting hormone or any other such tricks. Just need good fresh growth and to take them during late spring and summer. I can root them in just plain water most of the time.




That's the first time I have heard that they aren't hard to root... Seems like everyone else says that they are very difficult if not impossible and that sucker propagation is the only way to go...

Looks like next year I will have to try to do a cutting or two and try to find out.

Thanks again for all the info naum, you have been exceedingly helpful!


--------------------
One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree.
'Which road do I take?' she asked.
'Where do you want to go?' was his response.
'I don't know', Alice answered.
'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'




Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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