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yeah


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Socrates' stance on learning
#22004494 - 07/27/15 01:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Socrates said that there is no such thing as "learning".
In his perspective, anything you come to know is merely remembered.
Does this make sense to you? Agree, disagree?
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DividedQuantum
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Re: Socrates' stance on learning [Re: yeah]
#22005406 - 07/27/15 04:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes it does. In my studies of David Bohm, I have come to appreciate his notion of 'thought as a system.' That is, individually and collectively, all thought, anywhere, is part of this unified system. Anything outside of that system immediately and permanently becomes part of the system once it comes into contact with it. So we can never really get outside of it. Essentially, this means that individual minds and beliefs, and the entire culture as a whole, across the whole species, is like a database that sucks in anything it comes into contact with. So basically, for humans, there is nothing outside of this system because, as soon as the outside is observed, it is now in the system. So this system is comprised of a huge network of memories, which I find to be very much in line with Socrates' notions on this.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Socrates' stance on learning [Re: yeah]
#22006576 - 07/27/15 07:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Anamnesis and 'spiritual midwifery.'
"Socrates' response is to develop his theory of anamnesis. He suggests that the soul is immortal, and repeatedly incarnated; knowledge is actually in the soul from eternity, but each time the soul is incarnated its knowledge is forgotten in the trauma of birth. What one perceives to be learning, then, is actually the recovery of what one has forgotten. (Once it has been brought back it is true belief, to be turned into genuine knowledge by understanding.) And thus Socrates (and Plato) sees himself, not as a teacher, but as a midwife, aiding with the birth of knowledge that was already there in the student." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamnesis_(philosophy)
Obviously, in the Platonic mind-set which is first and foremost contemplative. Epistemé, or knowledge gleaned from empirical evidence is not being considered. As the Wiki article points out in connection with Neoplatonism, "anamnesis was less an epistemic assertion than an ontological one." We may well receive revelations from the Logos or the Plotinian Nous, but we still must acquire data from experimental science. This was not a consideration for Plato, perhaps it was to a certain extent with his student Aristotle who observed nature more closely than did Plato and has been called the first empiricist, but even Aristotle was speculative, not truly experimental. It was the Muslim scholar al-Haytham who is credited with the beginning of the scientific method.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (07/30/15 08:07 PM)
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Deviate
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" This was not a consideration for Plat"
Why not?
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Socrates' stance on learning [Re: Deviate]
#22007558 - 07/27/15 11:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: " This was not a consideration for Plat"
Why not?
Plato found much if not most of the physical world to be trivial. He aspired to have the mind of Nous or Logos, to be aware of the Realm of Forms, of Pure Ideas, not how they were transformed down to the particularities of mundane existence. He wouldn't have been interested in spirals as they manifested in sea shells and galaxies, neither biology or astronomy. He would've wanted to be aware of the Pure Idea of spiral in the Mind of God.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Deviate
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And you feel differently?
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: Socrates' stance on learning [Re: Deviate]
#22008639 - 07/28/15 09:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: And you feel differently?
Well, I DID abandon a career in hard science for social science, pretty much as a result of transcendental experiences had on LSD. So in that sense, I became uninterested in the 'how' of things, and queried about the 'whys,' which is a metaphysical concern. During this transformation I became influenced by the writings of Plato. I still have a mild interest in scientific knowledge, and I respect the scientific method which is based on logic. But whereas a childhood friend identifies with being a scientist, which indeed he is, I would hesitate to refer to myself as a philosopher since that title has been relegated to professors of philosophy in academic positions and outside of that context it just sounds pretentious. I applied my personal philosophy to the care of children in school buildings, which was the 'horizontal' arm of a philosophy which sought transcendental Truth (rather than relative truths) on the 'vertical' arm of a 'cross' between Knowing and helping. Plato didn't evidence the vertical dimension as I see it, but wisdom is not attained without compassion, so I see it differently than Plato. He may have been influenced by visiting Buddhists, but I definitely have been influenced by them.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
Edited by MarkostheGnostic (07/28/15 10:25 AM)
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HalluciNate
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Re: Socrates' stance on learning [Re: yeah]
#22020698 - 07/30/15 04:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
yeah said: Socrates said that there is no such thing as "learning".
In his perspective, anything you come to know is merely remembered.
Does this make sense to you? Agree, disagree?
From my perspective you can look at it from two (obviously more) angles.
1.)Everything has already been created and has already happened.
We are merely choosing how we want it to happen in this moment. (Remembering)
2.)This is actually a beginning and an end to creation.
Thus the order in which everything happens is important and actually matters. (?Learning?)
-------------------- At the beginning of all Source spoke to you and said:
"Remember learning."
or was it
"Remember learning?"
Anyways we are still contemplating what was given and source has already walked off.
JK --------------------
With that being said I can say I don't know for sure.
Who really does?
Can there be an all powerful all knowing being?
If so, does that being know how to create a rock even it cannot lift?
If it does know how to create the rock, then it is not all powerful because it cannot move the rock.
If it can move the rock, then it is not all knowing because it doesn't know how to create such rock.

I'm sorry if I derailed the thread OP, but I would like some opinions on the text above.
Regardless, creation is amazing and I can recommend you enjoy yourself and have fun!
-------------------- We are here to assist, to teach you to evolve as we go through this process together. We give our own version of things only to bring you to a higher consciousness. No matter what situation you find yourself in, it is the power of your thoughts that got you there. It is also the impeccable belief that thought creates that will transform your experience and the planetary existence.
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yeah


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Re: Socrates' stance on learning [Re: HalluciNate]
#22021642 - 07/30/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HalluciNate said: I'm sorry if I derailed the thread OP, but I would like some opinions on the text above.
The ways of the Gods are not ours to understand.
Edited by yeah (07/30/15 07:21 PM)
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HalluciNate
Trippage! / Loving



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Re: Socrates' stance on learning [Re: yeah]
#22021686 - 07/30/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
yeah said:
Quote:
HalluciNate said: I'm sorry if I derailed the thread OP, but I would like some opinions on the text above.
The ways of the Gods are not ours to understand.
That's not what the God and Goddess mystery schools teach.
-------------------- We are here to assist, to teach you to evolve as we go through this process together. We give our own version of things only to bring you to a higher consciousness. No matter what situation you find yourself in, it is the power of your thoughts that got you there. It is also the impeccable belief that thought creates that will transform your experience and the planetary existence.
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