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Offlineikku
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Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization.
    #21999324 - 07/26/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Disclaimer: I fully support legalization of marijuana.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/local-news/pooch-accidentally-overdoses-on-pot-during-trail-walk-maxs-marijuana-mishap-has-sky-high-vet-bill06182015

Someone was walking their dog in Colorado, and the dog stopped and ate something in the grass, the owner didn't notice what it was. Later that day, the dog was twitching, unable to stand or walk, and couldn't control its bladder. Ended up being a 1600 dollar vet bill. If he had been a small dog, he would have died.

The chemical in chocolate that is poisonous to dogs is related to cannabinoids (some theorize that's why chocolate has a soothing emotional effect.) So marijuana is also poisonous to dogs, especially in concentrated amounts like found in edibles. People need to be responsible with this. People tell stories of their "stoner dogs" that enjoy getting high (ie they force the animal to inhale smoke or eat edibles). That kind of attitude has to change. People need to respect cannabis. An edible is not food - it is a drug/medicine and should be treated as such. It definitely shouldn't be left somewhere that children or animals can get to.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: ikku] * 1
    #21999331 - 07/26/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Cool heads up


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Invisible404
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: Patlal]
    #21999372 - 07/26/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

you mentioned brownie dude. i dont trust that source at all... chocolate is really bad for dogs. how can you say it was the marijuana and not the chocolate? chocolate has theobromine in it, but i think its mostly in dark... its not related to cannabinoids


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OfflineMinnesnowtaNice
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: 404] * 1
    #21999456 - 07/26/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I had a dog that ate some poisonous mushrooms in our yard, it died.

I also had a dog that ate some chocolate out of my neighbors garbage can and got sick and had a pretty hefty vet bill, I suppose I should just put blame on Hershey's or my neighbor for making my dog sick other than taking responsibility for what my dog does, after all it's just a fucking dog.


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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: MinnesnowtaNice]
    #21999471 - 07/26/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

As marijuana becomes more of a mainstream topic, the news media is finding new ways to sensationalize their coverage. One topic that has resurfaced lately is dogs and marijuana—specifically, is pot good or bad for them? There is a lot of misinformation out there about canines and cannabis, leading NBC News to report “Marijuana poisoning on the rise in pets.”

Can marijuana poison your dog? We’ve been taught that marijuana is non-toxic to humans, but is it safe for dogs? Chocolate, raisins, grapes, garlic, onions, avocado, and macadamia nuts are delicious to us, but can range from sickening to life-threatening for dogs. And while everything more evolved than a sea squirt has an endocannabinoid system, can human-level quantities of weed overload a small dog’s system?

In the aforementioned NBC News story, Tina Wismer, the director of the Animal Poison Control Center explained, “Animals don’t react the same way as humans. Without treatment, dogs can go into comas and die.”







Wismer singled out medicated edibles with high THC concentrations as most dangerous to canines, especially if combined in chocolate brownies or raisin cookies.

A 2012 study published in the Journal of Veterinary Emergency and Critical Care followed 125 dogs in Colorado that presented marijuana ingestion from 2005-2010. Authors concluded, “Ingestion of baked goods made with medical grade tetrahydrocannabinol butter resulted in 2 deaths.” According to the Coloradoan, the two dogs died when they asphyxiated on their own vomit. Sad, to be sure, but can we call that a marijuana toxicity?

TheColoradoan also spoke with Ashley Harmon, a veterinarian at Fort Collins Veterinary Emergency and Rehabilitation. She says she’s seen more cases of people bringing in dogs who've ingested marijuana since it was legalized in Colorado. She also says she’s seen two smaller dogs die from marijuana ingestion, one who ate a pound of pot brownies and another who ate a pound of pot butter.  But was it the marijuana that harmed the dogs, or the ingredients in the edibles?

In 2013, researchers writing in the journal Topics in Companion Animal Medicine wrote, “The minimum lethal oral dose for dogs for THC is more than 3 g/kg. Although the drug has a high margin of safety, deaths have been seen after ingestion of food products containing the more concentrated medical-grade THC butter.” 

But in 1973, scientists writing for the journal Toxicology and Applied Pharmacology noted “In dogs and monkeys, single oral doses of Δ9-THC and Δ8-THC between 3000 and 9000 mg/kg were nonlethal.”

So, 40 years ago, 3 to 9 grams THC per kilogram of body weight was non-lethal to a dog, but last year, 3 grams THC per kilogram of body weight is the minimum lethal dose. Confused yet?

Consider that in those studies, that’s 3 g/kg of THC given orally, not pot itself. A 2004 review published in the Journal of Veterinary and Human Toxicology looked at 213 incidents where dogs ate actual pot from 1998-2001.

“The marijuana ingested ranged from 1/2 to 90 g,” the scientists wrote. “The lowest dose at which signs [of distress] occurred was 84.7 mg/kg and the highest reported dose was 26.8 g/kg.” They found that even with a dog eating almost an ounce of ganja per kilogram of its weight, “All followed animals made full recoveries.”

In terms of pure THC injected into dogs rather than eaten, researchers in 1983 found “the dose of THC which kills 50 percent of animals (LD50) when administered intravenously is … 130mg/kg in the dog.”

For comparison’s sake, pure synthetic THC Marinol pills that are prescribed to humans come in 2.5mg, 5mg, and 10mg oral dosages and the THC you’ll get in a package of Colorado medicated edibles ranges from 50mg to 125mg.





So, can marijuana kill your dog? Technically, yes, but realistically, probably not. Your dog would have to eat a pound or more of strong pot or edibles, and be a smaller-sized dog, and you’d have to ignore its symptoms, and the dog would have to pass out and choke on its vomit, or in the case of a chihuahua in New Zealand, experience hypothermia when the same blood vessel dilation that makes your eyes red makes the dog radiate away all its body heat.

Numerous veterinarians have written about the possibility of coma and death in rare cases from marijuana ingestion, though they all note that most dogs will recover if given proper care. We needn’t overreact to the topic of dogs and marijuana, as there is a promising future in veterinary medical cannabis. Just be sure to get in the habit of keeping your marijuana out of reach of your pets.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: ikku] * 1
    #21999613 - 07/26/15 11:42 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ikku said:
The chemical in chocolate that is poisonous to dogs is related to cannabinoids (some theorize that's why chocolate has a soothing emotional effect.) So marijuana is also poisonous to dogs, especially in concentrated amounts like found in edibles.





it's horse shit, the dosage makes the poison, in a small dog the LD50 is 300mg
per kilogram, in larger dogs it's close to that of humans at around 900mg per kg
(humans it is 1000mg/kg). most chocolates have a relatively low level of
theobromine with darker chocolates containing higher levels, this would mean
that a 1.5oz 85% cacao chocolate bar would kill a little 2-3 pound yorkie in
most cases but in the case of a dog like her, a giant schnauzer, it would take a
few pounds of the same stuff


theobromine vs THC:

Theobromine is a nitrogen based alkaloid just as many others such as opium,
theobromine is structurally more similar to caffiene than THC, TCH is carbon
based and lacks the nitrogen. in testing the LD50 of THC in dogs administered
via the oral route, enormous dose levels, over 3000 mg/kg were administered with
no toxicity being found




in plain english, this is media fear mongering due to some woman who probably
fucks her dog and was angry that he couldnt satisfy her lust that afternoon,
the dog wasnt in any real danger, he was just stoned and she was in a panic and
it isnt like a vet isnt going to bullshit you just as much as anyone else when
they dont really know the answer


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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21999712 - 07/26/15 12:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Vets are so full of shit. My old dog was having seizures and I took her into the er vet. They tried to tell me she had been eating mushrooms that grew out of the cow shit in the modoc nat forest. They didn't have an answer so they came up with that story, when she just had a recurring neurological issue.


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Offlineikku
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: passifloracaerulea]
    #22000062 - 07/26/15 01:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Lol @ the paranoia in this thread. People don't trust ANY authority anymore it seems, not even a veterinary doctor!

I'm not advocating that we restrict people's freedom because of this, I'm just calling out those people that are careless, inconsiderate fuckwits who think they own the world and can do whatever they want. It's possible that it was just chocolate that fucked with the dog (though I doubt it....it said "edible" not "brownie" or even "chocolate"). The only reason I brought up chocolate was as a comparison....something that's safe for humans but deadly for other animals.

The worst is when people get their own pets high. Especially if they have the audacity to claim that their animal "likes" it. It's a fucking animal. It is naturally high all the time in its own little world. It doesn't understand drugs, it doesn't want drugs, and it never asked for drugs. The dog in this story might have been pissing itself not because it lost control of its bladder, but because it was absolutely terrified of the effects. It's not cool.


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InvisibleMad_Larkin

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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #22000077 - 07/26/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
in plain english, this is media fear mongering due to some woman who probably
fucks her dog and was angry that he couldnt satisfy her lust that afternoon,





:whatwhatwhat:


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Invisiblepassifloracaerulea
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: ikku]
    #22000094 - 07/26/15 01:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I have a 14 pound shiba inu and she gets into my herb once in awhile. All that happens to her is she gets really stoned and paranoid. She doesn't like it but does it again and again. She ate close to a gram of 80% shatter one time and just got stoned. I was concerned that time but she was fine the next morning.


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OfflineBassfreak
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: Mad_Larkin]
    #22000100 - 07/26/15 02:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

dont get dogs high

thats fucked up


dogs are awesome


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: ikku]
    #22000127 - 07/26/15 02:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ikku said:
Lol @ the paranoia in this thread. People don't trust ANY authority anymore it seems, not even a veterinary doctor!




So when you wrongly claimed that "The chemical in chocolate that is poisonous to dogs is related to cannabinoids", whose authority are we supposed to be trusting there? Yours?


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Offlineikku
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: psi]
    #22000138 - 07/26/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If you google "theobromine thc" you will find loads of stuff talking about how chocolate acts on cannabinoid receptors in the brain. Theobromine itself is apparently more similar to caffeine, but there are other chemicals in chocolate, namely anandamine, that are related to THC.


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: ikku]
    #22000145 - 07/26/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The news makes money from ads. People who make the news are just you but now you're a "journalist" or a newscaster/anchor(talkinghead).
Basically the more views you get the more money you get from ads. This is why articles like these leave me unsure of it's reliability.

If anything I thought THC and stuff were anticonvulsants .
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/477630
Quote:

The effects of cannabidiol (CBD) on electrically evoked kindled seizures were studied in conscious, unrestrained rats with chronically implanted cortical and limbic electrodes, and the results were compared with those of delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol (delta 9-THC), phenytoin (PHT), and ethosuximide (ESM). All drugs were anticonvulsant, but there were marked differences in their effects on afterdischarge (AD) threshold, duration, and amplitude. CBD, like PHT and delta 9-THC, elevated the AD threshold; in contrast, ESM decreased the threshold but suppressed AD spread. CBD, however, also resembled ESM inasmuch as both drugs decreased AD duration and amplitude. Electrophysiologically, the antiseizure effects of CBD were a combination of those of PHT and ESM. The combination of effects may account for the observation that CBD was the most efficacious of the drugs tested against limbic ADs and convulsions. Other properties of CBD were also noted: For example, compared with delta 9-THC, it is a much more selective anticonvulsant vis-à-vis motor toxicity. CBD also lacks the CNS excitatory effects produced by delta 9-THC, PHT, and ESM. These characteristics, combined with its apparently unique set of electrophysiological properties, support the suggestion that CBD has therapeutic potential as an antiepileptic.




Edit:
If the dog ate chocolate it seems kinda odd to assume it wasn't the chocolate.
When people were dying from myth like research chemicals the "news" would report the only drug found in their system was weed...
"They may of been on something else but only weed was found therefore weed be killing bitches" :huxleyfacepalm:


Edited by Eggtimer (07/26/15 02:20 PM)


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: ikku]
    #22000165 - 07/26/15 02:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ikku said:
If you google "theobromine thc" you will find loads of stuff talking about how chocolate acts on cannabinoid receptors in the brain. Theobromine itself is apparently more similar to caffeine, but there are other chemicals in chocolate, namely anandamine, that are related to THC.




Interesting, but it's the theobromine that kills them I'm pretty sure.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: ikku]
    #22000181 - 07/26/15 02:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ikku said:
If you google "theobromine thc" you will find loads of stuff talking about how chocolate acts on cannabinoid receptors in the brain. Theobromine itself is apparently more similar to caffeine, but there are other chemicals in chocolate, namely anandamine, that are related to THC.





yeah, let's just keep tossing more bullshit out there until no one wants to point out the flaws


how about telling us what the toxicity is in dogs and the quantities found in
chocolates and how much of any sort of chocolate a dog would have to eat to
become poisoned.

woman's dog eats what she is apparently told by a vet was a marijuana edible,
even the woman apparently didnt know what the dog ate and I can bet the vet
didnt do a stomach pumping or even test the urine/blood to determine if that
was the case

what else was in this edible? could it be raisins? raisins are also toxic to dogs


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InvisibleSteveRogers
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: ikku]
    #22000182 - 07/26/15 02:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ikku said:
Someone was walking their dog in Colorado, and the dog stopped and ate something in the grass, the owner didn't notice what it was. Later that day, the dog was twitching, unable to stand or walk, and couldn't control its bladder. Ended up being a 1600 dollar vet bill. If he had been a small dog, he would have died.





Nothing at all to do with Cannabis legalization. That plant grows all over the world with no human intervention at all. So do a number of hazardous plants. This is literally nothing more than a (made up) story about a dog eating a plant on the roadside and (allegedly) getting ill.

You are only perpetuating this brand of horse shit by making threads like this OP.


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OfflineEggtimer
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: ikku]
    #22000186 - 07/26/15 02:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

What really kills more dogs?



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Offlineikku
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: SteveRogers]
    #22000228 - 07/26/15 02:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Did you guys read the article? They know it was marijuana because yes the dog had high levels of THC in its system. They know it was an edible or concentrate, not a plant, because the levels were really really high, far too high to have been from eating a plant. Jeez I'm not attacking weed or even saying it shouldn't be legal, I'm just saying people need to be careful. The dog in this story only survived because it was a BIG dog and weighed 100 lbs.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Unexpected consequence of marijuana legalization. [Re: ikku] * 1
    #22000256 - 07/26/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ikku said:
The dog in this story only survived because it was a BIG dog and weighed 100 lbs.





horse shit


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