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OfflineMr.Moniker
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Registered: 07/15/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
grain jars staying to warm on water heater?
    #21999278 - 07/26/15 10:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hello all!
Now I've read around the forum from differant people that condensation is normal during mycelium growth, but I JUST inoculated my rye jars 2 days ago so I'm doubting my condensation problem is stemming from that.

I keep my house at like 68 at all times, so I figured I would sit my jars on my water heater to stay warm, but now I'm seeing condensation forming inside around the top of the jars, and want to know if that could lead to problems, or if it's simply because my jars are warmer inside than the ambient temp . I have no way to measure temp inside the jars, but the water heater itself isn't hot to the touch, so I'm pretty sure it's not over 85 degrees.

Any insight or advice is greatly appreciated guys!


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InvisibleSteveRogers
gandy dancer
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Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 3,450
Re: grain jars staying to warm on water heater? [Re: Mr.Moniker]
    #21999286 - 07/26/15 10:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Moniker said:
Any insight or advice




68 F is just fine for colonization. Put them on a shelf. The supplemental heat will do nothing but increase risk of bacteria and other contaminants gaining a foot hold.


--------------------
"General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"


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OfflineMr.Moniker
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Registered: 07/15/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: grain jars staying to warm on water heater? [Re: SteveRogers]
    #22001530 - 07/26/15 07:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Thankss for the response man, Its My first time working with grain jars so I'm freaking out trying to make sure everything is perfect. I thought if my ambient was too cold, it would slow colonization leading to bacterial infection, but I guess a hot and humid environment will allow bacteria to grow as well.

I'm basically following Spitball Jedi's teks to a T, so hopefully all goes well!


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InvisibleSteveRogers
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Re: grain jars staying to warm on water heater? [Re: Mr.Moniker]
    #22001546 - 07/26/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

SpitBall is a good cultivator. Listen to his teks

The increased temperature of your heater really is just going to more harm than good.

Throw the jars on a shelf and update us with pics when you spawn them to bulk.


--------------------
"General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"


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OfflineMr.Moniker
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Registered: 07/15/15
Posts: 6
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: grain jars staying to warm on water heater? [Re: SteveRogers]
    #22001585 - 07/26/15 07:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SteveRogers said:
SpitBall is a good cultivator. Listen to his teks

and update us with pics when you spawn them to bulk.




Deffinantly will do! I'm probably going to open a journal once I get my monotubs made and my CVGsub all pasteurized, but thanksagain brother


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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Registered: 06/24/15
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Re: grain jars staying to warm on water heater? [Re: Mr.Moniker]
    #22001715 - 07/26/15 08:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Moniker said:
Hello all!
Now I've read around the forum from differant people that condensation is normal during mycelium growth, but I JUST inoculated my rye jars 2 days ago so I'm doubting my condensation problem is stemming from that.

I keep my house at like 68 at all times, so I figured I would sit my jars on my water heater to stay warm, but now I'm seeing condensation forming inside around the top of the jars, and want to know if that could lead to problems, or if it's simply because my jars are warmer inside than the ambient temp . I have no way to measure temp inside the jars, but the water heater itself isn't hot to the touch, so I'm pretty sure it's not over 85 degrees.

Any insight or advice is greatly appreciated guys!




In days gone by we were advised to colonize at 86 degrees. The first time I grew cubes--about 6 years ago, that is how I did it. I did not have a problem with contamination. Later I did have some but I think that was due not to colonization temps but to pressure cooker problems. Anyway, even back then the doctors differed on the matter of incubation temperatures. Probably the 86 degree movement had already spent itself and was not much in favor when I was doing my first PF jars but somehow I felt that this tropical species was happier with higher heat. And it was. But so were and are bacteria. And no matter how long we sterilize at 15 lbs psi, home growers can't hope to wipe out all the problematical elements that are lurking in the grain.

But it seems to me there is something to be said for the fact that a low 80's temperature fosters quicker mycelial growth than one in the high 60's. I know because I have tried it. And, presumably at least, if the jar is more quickly colonized this would offset the liability of bacterial take over. Just my noob's 2 cents on the matter.

I have always had temps in the high 70's at least for colonization and haven't really been burned yet by contamination--but I haven't  grown that much and who knows what comeupance lies in wait for me if I continue hopping up the heat on  newly knocked up jars?  The experienced growers here seem to be pretty unanimously in favor of lower temps. They should know.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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OfflineMr.Moniker
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Registered: 07/15/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: grain jars staying to warm on water heater? [Re: jesuisravi]
    #22003385 - 07/27/15 08:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

But for BRF you dont have to open the lid to inoculate.. so I never really worried about temp as much .But with the chance of bacteria and infection, the higher heat and condensation worries me. If I were doing BRF cakes I wouldn't worry as much, but grain is a whole new sub for me


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InvisibleSteveRogers
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Re: grain jars staying to warm on water heater? [Re: Mr.Moniker]
    #22003397 - 07/27/15 08:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Are you doing Agar to grain? Or just a multispore syringe?

If this is your first go and you are doing MS then I might recommend making lids with self healing injection ports until you have your sterile technique down.

Citric's lid tek (He uses tyvek, I prefer SFD's, but the concept is the same)
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/10628004


--------------------
"General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"


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Invisible36fuckin5
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Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
Trusted Cultivator
Re: grain jars staying to warm on water heater? [Re: SteveRogers]
    #22004007 - 07/27/15 11:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

68F is perfectly fine. That's about where I like to colonize mine.

Higher heat promotes more bacteria growth than myc. Myc grows just fine at 70 F, but bacteria will have a problem. Bacteria will do great at 80 F but you'll only see a minimal increase in colonization speed of your myc.

Not worth it. Set them on a shelf.


--------------------
Redd Foxx said:
If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more.

Pat The Bunny said:
A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me.

bodhisatta said:
i recommend common sense and figuring it out.

These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: grain jars staying to warm on water heater? [Re: jesuisravi]
    #22005081 - 07/27/15 03:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Moniker said:
I figured I would sit my jars on my water heater to stay warm



If you genuinely need additional heat put jars under the heat source, not on top. Unless it is a VERY mild heat source.


Quote:

jesuisravi said:In days gone by we were advised to colonize at 86 degrees.


not sure if you mean set your incubator to 86F, or have grains colonize at 86F, 2 different things. Stamets is continually blamed for supposedly telling people to incubate at 86F in TMC, he never did, but ignorant people continue to misquote him, or more likely quote others who misquoted him -most have probably not bothered to read TMC.

If they did they would have seem Stamets specifically warned against high incubation temps as it can lead to very high colonization temps.


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OfflineMr.Moniker
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Registered: 07/15/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
Re: grain jars staying to warm on water heater? [Re: SteveRogers]
    #22006699 - 07/27/15 08:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

SteveRogers said:
Are you doing Agar to grain? Or just a multispore syringe?

If this is your first go and you are doing MS then I might recommend making lids with self healing injection ports until you have your sterile technique down.




MS syringes is what I use. It's easier to use up front, assuming there are no infections. I was reading Spitball jedis tek recommendations for doing agar, but I wanted to keep my first run as simple stupid as possible.

Agar is the only obvious next step once I get a foothold in grain though, that way I can physically see the myc growth and I'm not wasting time and money on supplies, only to get infected. It's a lot easier to just toss out a Petri dish than my entire run of jars.

I basically used a grow tent as my SAB, bleached it down, Lysol the shit out of it, let everything settle for a good 10 min, then got to work. I setup my swork station, grabbed a quick shower, put on clean clothes, gloves, and a face mask. I alcohol wiped every jar before removing the aluminum, and after innoc. And I flame sterilized before, and in between each jar, as well as alcohol swabbed the needle tip, my gloves, and the syringe itself. My sterile proceedure is fairly anal, but openning the lid still scares me

Quote:

36fuckin5:68F is perfectly fine. That's about where I like to colonize mine.

Higher heat promotes more bacteria growth than myc. Myc grows just fine at 70 F, but bacteria will have a problem. Bacteria will do great at 80 F but you'll only see a minimal increase in colonization speed of your myc.





I appreciate hearing that from a TC. So then it's just a matter of patience from here on out!

Quote:

blackout said:If you genuinely need additional heat put jars under the heat source, not on top. Unless it is a VERY mild heat source.




Why is that? Heat transfer from below inhibits growth somehow?? Or is the direct contact a better growth point for harmful bacteria?


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InvisibleSteveRogers
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Registered: 10/24/06
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Re: grain jars staying to warm on water heater? [Re: blackout]
    #22006758 - 07/27/15 08:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mr.Moniker said:

I basically used a grow tent as my SAB.




Just make a SAB per Spitball's tek or another that involves a simple tote with two holes in it. the grow tent will not perform in the same way.
Quote:

Mr.Moniker said:
My sterile proceedure is fairly anal, but openning the lid still scares me




Just inject through SHIPs if you are intent on using MS syringes.
If you are truly anal. Use a real SAB. Not a grow tent.


--------------------
"General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"


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