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OfflineTweakz
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Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried.
    #21997330 - 07/25/15 09:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hey everyone, im attempting my first real grow and following this tek: http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21390984

however it has been 6 days after inoculation and none of the 4 jars i prepared have shown any growth. 2 jars were straight spores, the other 2 i used a spore syringe, all jars are filled with brown rice grains. Insights or help would be greatly appreciated.

My first suspicion is the jars are lacking moisture, could that be fixed by just injecting more water with a sterile syringe?

heres some pics of one of the jars:






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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #21997361 - 07/25/15 09:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

it's only been 6 days...

spores can take upwards of 3 weeks to germinate in some cases


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InvisibleMudaFuka
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #21997367 - 07/25/15 09:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Spores can take a while to germinate. What do you mean 2 were inoculated with straight spores? Did you just scrape spores off a print into a grain jar?


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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: MudaFuka]
    #21997382 - 07/25/15 09:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I don't understand why there's only 12 grains of rice in the near. Mainly because I refuse to read some shit violet typed lol


Is it worth a read?

OK nvm its used as an all in one.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

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OfflineTweakz
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21997387 - 07/25/15 09:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MudaFuka said:
Spores can take a while to germinate. What do you mean 2 were inoculated with straight spores? Did you just scrape spores off a print into a grain jar?




yeah just scraped them off a print and dropped them directly inside the jar.


Quote:

bodhisatta said:
it's only been 6 days...

spores can take upwards of 3 weeks to germinate in some cases





wow really 3 weeks? i've been reading a lot of peoples posts and most people seem to get colonization started within a week, some people even after 3 days.

so i shouldn't panic just yet? might go buy some more jars and start making a backup plan though.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #21997394 - 07/25/15 09:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I've got spores to germinate in 2 days and I've had spores take 2 weeks.


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OfflineTweakz
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: maddchef]
    #21997395 - 07/25/15 09:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

maddchef said:
I don't understand why there's only 12 grains of rice in the near. Mainly because I refuse to read some shit violet typed lol


Is it worth a read?





theres not much grain because it fruits inside the jar, and yeah the tek is worth a read its pretty interesting.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #21997407 - 07/25/15 09:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)



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OfflineTweakz
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21997414 - 07/25/15 09:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
I've got spores to germinate in 2 days and I've had spores take 2 weeks.





It is winter here at the moment (26 degrees Celcius outside, but much warmer inside where i have the jars) could this have an impact?


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InvisibleMudaFuka
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #21997421 - 07/25/15 09:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Tweakz said:
yeah just scraped them off a print and dropped them directly inside the jar.




You might want to add a few drops of sterile water to those jars.


--------------------
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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #21997424 - 07/25/15 09:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

26C is as hot as I would go ever. 20-23C is perfect


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OfflineTweakz
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21997437 - 07/25/15 09:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21168958





that tek seems better, but it also uses a lot of materials i don't have.
might be easier to just do PF Tek. I'm gonna start another batch of jars but i'll do pf tek this time, and if these first few jars work then sweet but if not ill have a backup. thanks for all the info bodhisatta.


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OfflineTweakz
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: MudaFuka]
    #21997445 - 07/25/15 09:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MudaFuka said:
Quote:

Tweakz said:
yeah just scraped them off a print and dropped them directly inside the jar.




You might want to add a few drops of sterile water to those jars.





1ml of sterile water through the polyfill with a syringe ?


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OfflineTweakz
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #21997455 - 07/25/15 09:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

guys im gonna head down to the shops and get some verm and start some pf teks, i'll read everything you guys write when i get back.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #21997466 - 07/25/15 09:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

PF tek can be done really really easily



no dry verm layer, a SHIP and a GE filter.
I did the SHIP for easyness. fruit them with a sandwich bag, adjust or add holes as needed. mist as needed.

great way to get a clone from a MS culture.

three minutes to prep the cake, very short time to sterilize in a PC or you can steam them like advised in the brf/pf TEKs.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #21997478 - 07/25/15 09:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Most people do get growth within a week or sooner.  The fastest I ever had was 3 days from a vendor print, and had it take longer from my own newer prints, so it seems to be genetic.  That rice looks pretty well hydrated to me.

The ones that just had spores dropped into them may take longer to germinate since there may not be enough moisture present to rehydrate them very well.  Others would know more about this than I.

You don't need to change tek because your spores didn't germinate as fast as you would have liked...  I like v-tek a lot, though it is kinda picky.  Case that brown rice when it finishes colonizing.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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OfflineTweakz
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21997494 - 07/25/15 10:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
PF tek can be done really really easily



no dry verm layer, a SHIP and a GE filter.
I did the SHIP for easyness. fruit them with a sandwich bag, adjust or add holes as needed. mist as needed.

great way to get a clone from a MS culture.

three minutes to prep the cake, very short time to sterilize in a PC or you can steam them like advised in the brf/pf TEKs.






damn, that's genius, and looks really simple too. well im off to get the materials needed, hopefully this works out.


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OfflineTweakz
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #21997506 - 07/25/15 10:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
Most people do get growth within a week or sooner.  The fastest I ever had was 3 days from a vendor print, and had it take longer from my own newer prints, so it seems to be genetic.  That rice looks pretty well hydrated to me.

The ones that just had spores dropped into them may take longer to germinate since there may not be enough moisture present to rehydrate them very well.  Others would know more about this than I.

You don't need to change tek because your spores didn't germinate as fast as you would have liked...  I like v-tek a lot, though it is kinda picky.  Case that brown rice when it finishes colonizing.





would verm-only casing work? or do i need coir/peat moss?


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #21997520 - 07/25/15 10:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)



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Invisiblejesuisravi
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21997570 - 07/25/15 10:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I hope you are not giving up on the rice jars yet.


--------------------
Most of my beliefs I acquired from my father and from John Wayne, and anything that wasn't ultra tough and ultra cool was to me ultra embarrassing. In fact, I lived in a state of near continuous embarrassment, never measuring up to the ridiculous standards I had accepted without question, applied to a framework of expectations neither I nor anyone else could meet.--J C Amberchele

almost nothing important that ever happens to you happens because you engineer it. Destiny has no beeper; destiny always leans trenchcoated out of an alley with some sort of 'psst' that you usually can't even hear because you're in such a rush to or from something important you've tried to engineer. ”
― David Foster Wallace, Infinite Jest


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OfflineTweakz
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: jesuisravi]
    #21997829 - 07/25/15 11:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

jesuisravi said:
I hope you are not giving up on the rice jars yet.





nah i'm still hopeful that they will succeed but i just dont want to spend a month waiting to see if it will colonize without having a backup batch.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #21997835 - 07/25/15 11:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Just make it out of rice.  Grain colonizes a faster than PF, especially with a shake.

If you think you can't get V-tek to work, just hydrate a quart of coir to field capacity, nuke it, and add an equal quantity of it to your grains, then shake the shit out of it.  Should still be enough room to fruit invitro.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


Edited by Machiavelliavore (07/26/15 12:27 AM)


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OfflineTweakz
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #21998199 - 07/26/15 01:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Machiavelliavore said:
Just make it out of rice.  Grain colonizes a faster than PF, especially with a shake.

If you think you can't get V-tek to work, just hydrate a quart of coir to field capacity, nuke it, and add an equal quantity of it to your grains, then shake the shit out of it.  Should still be enough room to fruit invitro.




thanks for the tip machiavelli i may do that to the dryer jars soon. just got a fresh bag of peat moss, which from my understanding is basically the same thing.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #21998362 - 07/26/15 03:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Btw, I should clarify, only add coir after full colonization of the grains if you want to use a bulk substrate instead of v-tek watering.  Do not open your jars until full colonization.

Peat has lower nutritional content than coir, it's acidic and it tends not to have a watterlogged texture when hydrated alone.  Coir has some nutritional content (though not much,) hydrates quite nicely to a fluffy consistency, and is more pH balanced.

I have never heard of using peat as a bulk substrate.  If it's possible to do, you probably need to do something like peat + verm 50/50 to get it to a texture the mycellium will like.  It tends not to be colonized as aggressively as coir regardless.  It makes a better casing layer (non-nutritious, high humidity pinning surface) because it seems to have higher water capacity/not dry out easily, while being less nutritious (good for inducing pinning,) and not fully colonizing as easily (good for casing.)  I doubt you want to sacrifice your spiritual quest/lulzfiesta to experimentation that nobody will advise you to do :smile:

Using straight peat as a casing requires a high degree of proficiency in hydrating it correctly, so I would use 50/50 peat verm, and just do v-tek cased invitro containers.

If you wanna do the bulk thing, buy some coir.  It's like $3 at petstores.  You could also use straight vermiculite hydrated to field capacity as a bulk sub, but it would be more expensive and less nutritious than coir.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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OfflineTweakz
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #21998414 - 07/26/15 04:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

oh okay i think i got it mixed up, peat moss seems to be just for casing.


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OfflineMachiavelliavore
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #21998420 - 07/26/15 04:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

They do have equivalent uses in horticulture and in casing layers, so you were right about that.  Coir just also makes a good bulk substrate while peat afaik does not.


--------------------


I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister.  I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave.  I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent.
Triggered yet?

Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."


No, this does not look right...


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InvisibleViolet
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Machiavelliavore]
    #22000960 - 07/26/15 05:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Tweaks, you don't really appear to be following the tek of mine you linked.
Firstly, brown rice is not given as an intended substrate for the tek – only an alternative for growers when they get to the point of being better at grain preparations and are ready to use casing layers.
Secondly, you're using a jar, which wouldn't be a problem if you had an unmodified plastic lid (as that would technically be following the tek),
but having so little substrate in a jar (yours sub is especially small btw) that large can have moisture problems when the grain isn't thoroughly hydrated and the lid allows moisture loss like yours definitely does thru the poly-fil.  It's pretty clear from the sides of the jar that you're low on moisture.  It may still grow, but...
Thirdly, dropping dry spores onto the top of grain like that is something meant for the likes of my culturing tek, and that ONLY, in an entirely-enclosed container with plenty of moisture.  Between those two things, it's possible that you might have trouble getting quick growth, even growth at all, from the tops of the sub which is the most prone to drying out, and almost the only places your spores likely landed.

It's possible you just haven't had germination yet but may yet.  But personally I would set that grow aside and start something else.  If you get growth on those jars, just use them to spread some mycelium to another grow if you don't have another source of mycelium first.

In the future, keep in mind it's best to have your spores hydrated and in a moisture-retaining environment for germination. Such as on agar, in a spore solution, or like is possible with my culture tek by putting them on well-hydrated grain in a smaller and enclosed container.

If you want to use methods like mine as a beginner using multi-spore inoculations without agar, having your spores in solution syringes is fairly important.  As is using a solid amount of substrate in the invitro containers - 1/4 full!
Try following the instructions outlined in teks to-a-T.
And Im happy to help out!


--------------------
Intentionally or not, here in mushcult we are purveyors of love culture and enlightenment movement. Let's try to act like it!

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OfflineTweakz
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Violet]
    #22002152 - 07/26/15 09:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

hmm so it seems this  may not work. Luckily yesterday i prepared some pf tek jars as a backup. Would taping the polyfill lids be benificial at this stage?

i'll try your tek again when i can find those plastic containers and grass seed.


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OfflineTweakz
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Re: Need help with V-tek, No growth, Worried. [Re: Tweakz]
    #22018105 - 07/30/15 01:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Update:

10 days now no signs of growth, not even a little bit of contam. :sad:
Which means my sterile technique is effective, but i'm starting to think my spores might be dead or something.

pf jars are on day 4 now, hopefully those start colonizing soon. This uncertainty is driving me crazy, every day im thinking "maybe i should make more jars with a different tek and different substrate".

if i saw some colonization i would be able to relax and just wait it out but when you don't know if it will ever colonize it can be stressful.

i feel im alone in this situation too because i constantly see people posting their first ever grow and the pics look amazing.


Edited by Tweakz (07/30/15 01:31 AM)


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