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Galaxytripper
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Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 362
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Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Cake waterlogging?
#21996443 - 07/25/15 05:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's been 5 days now since birthing my BRF cakes. I reckon I did everything right, no contams, did the dunk and roll, SGFC with 6500K light on a 12/12 hr. cycle. Should I be seeing pins now? I mist and fan 3 times a day. Don't want to over-do it. Plenty of white fuzz growing, but I've had that before, and that didn't seem to guarantee anything.
Only thing I'm thinking: When I dunked the cakes, I left them in for more than 24 hrs, more like 28 or 29. On previous occasions the verm didn't stick too well to the cake, and thought this was because the cakes had not absorbed enough water.
Well, this time, I left the caked for longer, deep in a big pot, where they would receive more water pressure, to get the water in. Well, when I retrieved them from the pot and rolled them in verm, the cakes accepted all the verm I could give 'em, ok, but they were sodden, and now I'm afraid I could have waterlogged them, and that further misting may not be giving them a chance to get rid of the excess water. Do I have anything to worry about. Any comments, suggestions, or explanations? Thanks.
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nobody83
stranger danger


Registered: 03/15/14
Posts: 1,486
Loc: around town
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You should be fine 24 hour dunk isn't set in stone but you don't want to dunk too long... you should be fine with 28. Pinning most of the time depends on how long you consolidated the sub after it has colonized. A week is normal in most cases
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
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Re: Cake waterlogging? [Re: nobody83]
#21996478 - 07/25/15 05:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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They're fine,
Don't over-mist them.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Galaxytripper
ExpertNovice


Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 362
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Re: Cake waterlogging? [Re: nobody83]
#21996487 - 07/25/15 05:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks, yeah. I consolidated them for a week. (well, 6 days). How long does it take for them to start pinning?
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taGyo
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Registered: 10/16/14
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Genetics and environment determine pinning.
Could be five days, could be a week, could be two or three. The best I can do is make sure you have your SGFC situated properly.
Want to take some pics?
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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nobody83
stranger danger


Registered: 03/15/14
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Re: Cake waterlogging? [Re: taGyo]
#21996506 - 07/25/15 05:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dem bottom holes
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DensePlacebo
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Re: Cake waterlogging? [Re: nobody83]
#21996549 - 07/25/15 06:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sounds like not enough FAE not genetics or anything. If you got that white fuzz everywhere its definitely FAE. Fan more mist the same
-------------------- Alright then, picture this if you will: 10 to 2 AM, X, Yogi DMT, and a box of Krispy Kremes, in my "need to know" post, just outside of Area 51. Contemplating the whole "chosen people" thing with just a flaming stealth banana split the sky like one would hope but never really expect to see in a place like this. Cutting right angle donuts on a dime and stopping right at my Birkenstocks, and me yelping... Holy fucking shit!
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
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Yeah,
Pics would help.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Galaxytripper
ExpertNovice


Registered: 09/08/13
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Ok. So white fuzz, to be clear, are you saying that this is because of lack of FAE? I thought the white fuzz was normal and the precursor to the next phase of pinning. Yeah, I'll take some pics.
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DensePlacebo
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Pics would help. But ya white fuzzy stuff that usually tries to colonize your verm from the dunk n roll that's lack of FAE. That's not saying it wont pin it just wont be the amount of pins it could be IME.
-------------------- Alright then, picture this if you will: 10 to 2 AM, X, Yogi DMT, and a box of Krispy Kremes, in my "need to know" post, just outside of Area 51. Contemplating the whole "chosen people" thing with just a flaming stealth banana split the sky like one would hope but never really expect to see in a place like this. Cutting right angle donuts on a dime and stopping right at my Birkenstocks, and me yelping... Holy fucking shit!
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Galaxytripper
ExpertNovice


Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 362
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Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Re: Cake waterlogging? [Re: taGyo]
#21996773 - 07/25/15 07:02 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here's some pics:
Actually, the holes in the SGFC may be too big. I didn't have a 1/4 inch drill bit, so the hole might be 2/3 inch or so. I started taping up a portion of each hole and also drilled quite a number of smaller holes too as I felt I didn't have enough. My cheap hygrometer reads from 94% to 99% humidity. My more expensive one say from between 60 and 70 %. I don't know which to believe.
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Galaxytripper
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Thanks. Pics supplied now. So...what's the remedy now to the white fuzz? And what did I do wrong at the dunk and roll?
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taGyo
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Registered: 10/16/14
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Yeah, you went a little drill happy there 
Both aren't needed but the analog is waaay better then a digital. Digitals weren't made for this environment so they often read wrong.
They look fine, is it elevated 6-12" off the ground? Do you have bottom holes? Is it 12" from any wall? If you can't achieve 6-12" off the ground just get it as high as possible.
Other then that they look good, you should mist maybe twice a day though or if you see them getting dry. If you put too much water on them they start to react negatively but those look good.
Make sure you fan for 15-25 seconds. What you really want to do with fanning is destroy the environment (drop the humidity) inside so it has to rebuild it, causing evaporation from the freshly misted cakes to trigger pinning.
5 days is nothing, if you get to day 14 without pins you should be concerned.
The little white bulbs means you could use a little more FAE. The myc is colonizing some of the verm as well, this is normal.
Good job
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
Edited by taGyo (07/25/15 07:08 PM)
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Galaxytripper
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Re: Cake waterlogging? [Re: taGyo]
#21996871 - 07/25/15 07:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks.
Quote:
is it elevated 6-12" off the ground? Do you have bottom holes? Is it 12" from any wall?
The SGFC is resting on 4 of the same half-pint cakes. Should I raise it more? I have BIG bottom holes. It's at least a foot from any wall.
-Hey, I just took another peek at the cakes. I have one beautiful start of a single mushroom on one cake. Ooh! So excited I could wet myself.
Quote:
What you really want to do with fanning is destroy the environment (drop the humidity) inside so it has to rebuild it, causing evaporation from the freshly misted cakes to trigger pinning.
This is the mysterious part for me. On the one hand we're told to keep the humidity elevated at all time because mushrooms like humid conditions. Then in the next contradictory breath, we're told that fanning, which evaporates that moisture, is a trigger to pinning. Evaporation means precisely the lowering or getting rid of moisture, not maintaining. This is the part that's not making sense to me. I mean, surely, either the mushrooms like humidity or they don't. Which is it? I mean how does that work at a sciency level?
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nobody83
stranger danger


Registered: 03/15/14
Posts: 1,486
Loc: around town
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They love humidity but the love fresh air more it is controversy but without either your in for a bad time... That's y you MIST and fan so you can get evaporation without dying the cakes out and let the perlite restore humidity like its supposed to
Edited by nobody83 (07/25/15 07:39 PM)
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



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Re: Cake waterlogging? [Re: nobody83]
#21997056 - 07/25/15 08:07 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Congratulations,
More to come 
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Galaxytripper
ExpertNovice


Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 362
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Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Re: Cake waterlogging? [Re: taGyo]
#21997083 - 07/25/15 08:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks for the info, bro.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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I bet if you didn't touch them at all and didn't mist or fan at all for 2-3 days you would see pins.
fanning isn't in any way shape or form FAE, the only way to give more FAE is to build your SGFC properly. you can't adjust FAE with a SGFC unless you make bigger holes
cakes like 99% humidity only near the surface a like 1/8th of an inch. the vermiculite you roll the cakes in provides this environment, the air in the SGFC should fluctuate pretty dramatically.
constant evaporation from the substrate is a pinning trigger because it means there's 99% humidity at the surface but not 99% everywhere else. a concentration gradient of humidity. the fruits don't like to be in saturated conditions.
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nobody83
stranger danger


Registered: 03/15/14
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Wished i could say things all smart like
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Galaxytripper
ExpertNovice


Registered: 09/08/13
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Ok. Thanks for the info. Then I apparently I was still getting confused between fanning and FAE. I thought the purpose of fanning, apart from inducing evaporation, was to introduce FAE. Anyway, I thought I had enough FAE, what with all the extra holes I drilled and all. In fact, because of all the extra holes (extra large too) my humidity reading is at around a constant 60%. I thought that's insufficient, so I taped up some of the holes, not completely, but just to make them smaller, thinking to keep the humidity in and up. Should I remove the tape then to leave things as they were?
Because the humidity was reading low, I’ve misted and fanned, 3 times a day, which according to the general rules, I didn’t think excessive. I was trying to get that humidity up, I guess, despite thinking in the back of my mind that the cakes might be waterlogged. But then I also got to thinking, well, the cakes pull in the water from the outside to the inside to nourish the hyphae/mycelium, so how bad can that be? So slightly contradictory ideas/feelings going on there in my head.
Someone tells me here that white fuzz is a sign of lack of FAE. I was thinking how can that be? I have enough holes. Thought white fuzz was a good sign of mycelia growth. What else would it be? If the cakes are getting everything they need, what, you wouldn’t get fuzz? Would this growth be diverted to create pins or something? What's the deal with the fuzz?
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