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Filterhead462
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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: satch1234]
#22002320 - 07/26/15 10:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Believe what ever you choose to believe as long as you're not shitting on someone else's beliefs Because at the end of the day nobody and I mean nobody knows exactly what is going on right now. Everything could be wrong but it could be right. I myself believe that mushrooms are something seriously special to life as a whole, special in a way that I could never comprehend. That have insight into life itself and death Extra-dimesions may sound far fetched but can you prove that they don't exist, Can you prove they DMT doesn't actually take you somewhere. We are all still children exploring our playpen, try telling a child about the universe, they don't have the mental capacity to understand or even believe at that point Maybe that's what it's like for us, we are not yet far evolved enough to even comprehend that there could be something going on
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We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion
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natedawgnow
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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#22002331 - 07/26/15 11:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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We can speculate as much as humanely possible but the truth of the matter is that some events in nature are currently unexplainable.
Example: do you believe the personality conscious, subconscious, Id, ego, superego etc.. "Soul" if you choose to believe in such a thing, are physical or intangible? The answer to This question is important, for if you believe it to be tangible, then it is something we can physically observe in someone, which we know is not true.
If it is intangible, then how can it exist inside of something physical, like our brain? This is outside the laws of physics and sounds like the magic you refer to.
My point is simply that the universe, existence, and our brains are enigmas. They are the last frontiers and we can only speculate as to why, and only work to understand how.
Who knows why these plants effect us the way they do. I don't mean the chemical relationship to our brains, i mean why it is so enlightening when it is meant to be poison. The universe is truly awesome.
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oomchu
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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: Starless]
#22002354 - 07/26/15 11:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Starless said:
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oomchu said:
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ZeroBoyWD said: It just amazes me that people think they can connect to some spirit realm without any falsifiable evidence.
Legitimate question: what evidence is there that the subconscious exists?
Are you really that unfamiliar with even the most basic aspects of human psychology? There are regulatory processes in our brains that we are not consciously aware of. Do you have to consciously keep your heart beating? Do you plan out your dreams before you go to sleep?
Yes, I am unfamiliar with it. You seem to think berating me with questions will answer my question. They didn't. The question was legitimate, I wasn't asking it to be an asshole. The regulatory processes you speak of are more part of the nervous system which is physical. The subconscious as it is usually described always seemed to me to not have a physical analogue, but to be a process of thought. If that makes sense. I probably should've phrased the question better. It seemed the OP was speculating some type of 'filters' exist which come down when one ingests psychedelics and allows one to access the unconscious part of the mind. I guess my question should have been, what evidence do yo have for this vs. just being fucked up and hallucinating?
It might be good for future discussions if you asked for elaboration.
Edited by oomchu (07/26/15 11:32 PM)
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Eggtimer
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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#22002355 - 07/26/15 11:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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A lot of religion nowadays seems based on blind faith. They've replaced direct experience (altered states of consciousness-yoga, mediation, psychedelics,) with faith. It's the same kind of faith you have when you loan someone money when you know they're probably not going to pay you back. If there is some part of the brain responsible for "spirituality" could it have become atrophied? This is why I don't considered myself anything. I really have no idea. I was a nihilist for around 8 years until I smoked DMT. I still don't say I'm absolutely certain but I feel a connection to existence and reality that I never had before these experiences even off the drugs. I don't claim there is life after death or god but I also have no problem with these ideas. I would of never expect to see things this way since I was approaching it from a extremely skeptical point of view. I can usually reach a consensus with other people who have smoked DMT. Before DMT I could just ignore them because it made no sense but now it does. If anything at least it's a shared delusion. The effects of DMT are not being studied much because it's illegal so it's very hard to get funding and legal access to DMT to study it. We still have no idea what it's for and why it appears in so many things.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1447742/
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Although several articles in the October 2002 issue on Complementary and Alternative Medicine reflect the interest in spirituality that exists in the field, they appear unable to discuss it directly. One of the reasons for this may be that scientific medicine has its roots in a rift from spirituality. Before Western medical practice and research began to involve what was considered to be an unnatural curiosity about the human body, medicine was intricately involved with a person’s spirit or soul. It was during the 16th century in Europe that men began to commit the heresy of stealing dead bodies from graves and actually looking at bones, muscles, and organs. “Laws against dissecting human corpses began to relax during the Renaissance; as a result, the first truly scientific studies of the human body began.”1
The dissecting of bodies has become such a basic feature of medical school education, it may be difficult to imagine the historical sacrilege of this act initially. The Church condemned these “body snatchers,” contributing to Western medicine’s alienation from the spirit. Larry Dossey writes,
From the sixteenth century on, mind has been progressively expunged from the phenomenal world. . . . Scientific consciousness is alienated consciousness: there is no ecstatic merger with nature, but rather total separation from it. Subject and object are always seen in opposition to each other. . . . The logical end point of this world view is a feeling of total reification: everything is an object, alien, not-me; and I am ultimately an object too, an alienated “thing” in a world of other, equally meaningless things. 2
As an American Indian, I am aware of an entirely different tradition of healing that never split from spirit world. There is no difference, for example, between Navajo religion and Navajo medicine. American Indian medicine consists of spoken prayers, songs that are prayers, rituals, and instruments of prayer. Even herbal medicine comes with prayers for a person’s spirit. It is interesting to me that modern providers have recently “discovered” holistic medicine. It is something like the way Columbus “discovered” America. Suddenly our spiritual practices exist, though they have been practical for centuries. We also experience alienation as a byproduct of would-be spiritual genocide, what Eduardo Duran calls the “soul wound”: “The notion of ‘soul wound’ is one which is at the core of much of the suffering which Indigenous peoples have undergone for centuries.”3(p127)
When modern public health and medical practitioners are able to talk about the spirit and understand what they themselves have lost, I think their wound will begin to heal. Perhaps then they can help the rest of us.
http://www.langtoninfo.com/web_content/9780521755948_frontmatter.pdf Once again that word faith 
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In Science and Spirituality: Making Room for Faith in the Age of Science , Michael Ruse offers a new analysis of the often trou- bled relationship between science and religion. Arguing against both extremes – in one corner, the New Atheists; in the other, the Cre- ationists and their offspring, the Intelligent Designers – he asserts that science is undoubtedly the highest and most fruitful source of human inquiry. Yet, by its very nature and its deep reliance on metaphor, science restricts itself and is unable to answer basic, significant, and potent questions about the meaning of the universe and humankind’s place within it: Why is there something rather than nothing? What is the ultimate source and foundation of morality? What is the nature of consciousness? What is the meaning of it all? Ruse shows that one can legitimately be a skeptic about all of these questions, yet why it is nonetheless open to a Christian, or a member of any faith, to offer answers. Scientists, he concludes, should be proud of their achieve- ments but modest about their scope. Christians should be confident of their mission but respectful of the successes of science.
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satch1234 said: If everything is behaving under the psychical and chemical laws of the universe why would they not come together in similar arrangements?
This is what I'm saying. The universe emulates on every level. So if you have some level of consciousness because of the structures in your brain could these structures appear else where and create novel forms of it? Basically psychedelics may be all in your head but you are just all in your head too. If everything in the universe was once part the same thing doesn't that mean it's all connected? You, everything you see and don't, the earth, the sun, time and space, were all once a part of the same space in a singularity right? Is this why entanglement is a thing? ] Is my reasoning extremely flawed here or do people dislike the idea that everything is not random chance?
Edited by Eggtimer (07/26/15 11:25 PM)
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satch1234
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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: natedawgnow] 1
#22002395 - 07/26/15 11:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Peoples personality change dramatically after head trauma, drug abuse e.t.c I've seen it. I'd say that is evidence of the pointing towards the brain, infact all evidence points that way..
If you were to damage the thalamus your conscious experience would be completely different, or you may go unconscious from physical lesion.
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DubiousNotation
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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: satch1234]
#22002457 - 07/27/15 12:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Interesting point regarding DMT Eggtimer. The human race knows very little about it's own enviornment. Im pretty biased in regards to religious and "unreal" occurrences. Obviously I don't mean in the metaphysical sense, but am referring to occurrences bound by physics. I honestly hate discussing metaphysical concepts as it never seems to get anywhere as there is very little to no logical construct. A lot of people it seems use fluffed up words with sparse points. Im doing this to some degree, but Im tired. I agree with the OP personally. I would argue that a belief purely contained within your mind could very well be true, relatively speaking. Sure, it might externalize and interface with the world but it only becomes delusion when the world "reciprocates" your beliefs via skewed or biased perception. However I think you would have to further define delusion. I hold the belief that delusion is a belief such that is contrary to the logical nature of our world, in a word, physics.
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Eggtimer
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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: satch1234]
#22002504 - 07/27/15 12:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
satch1234 said: Peoples personality change dramatically after head trauma, drug abuse e.t.c I've seen it. I'd say that is evidence of the pointing towards the brain, infact all evidence points that way..
If you were to damage the thalamus your conscious experience would be completely different, or you may go unconscious from physical lesion.
We usually think as stars and planets as a normal part of the universe but we think conscious life to not be. If you go back far enough there would only be dust and gas and then if you could exist at this time the forming of stars might not be considered a "natural" part of the universe because it took 100-200 million years for the first stars to happen from what we know. It took earth almost 10 billion years to form. After it was it only took consciousness life around 3.6 billion.
It doesn't matter if it comes from the brain if consciousness is a "natural" part of the universe. Reaching a definition on consciousness and intelligence is also very sketchy. Bacterial linguistic communication and social intelligence
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Bacteria have developed intricate communication capabilities (e.g. quorum-sensing, chemotactic signaling and plasmid exchange) to cooperatively self-organize into highly structured colonies with elevated environmental adaptability. We propose that bacteria use their intracellular flexibility, involving signal transduction networks and genomic plasticity, to collectively maintain linguistic communication: self and shared interpretations of chemical cues, exchange of chemical messages (semantic) and dialogues (pragmatic). Meaning-based communication permits colonial identity, intentional behavior (e.g. pheromone-based courtship for mating), purposeful alteration of colony structure (e.g. formation of fruiting bodies), decision-making (e.g. to sporulate) and the recognition and identification of other colonies – features we might begin to associate with a bacterial social intelligence. Such a social intelligence, should it exist, would require going beyond communication to encompass unknown additional intracellular processes to generate inheritable colonial memory and commonly shared genomic context.
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=1SQuadczM9oC&oi=fnd&pg=PR5&dq=bacterial+intelligence&ots=w4oxVSOIi9&sig=3JFIJKSf3KCIWFYvuWFuB_VKHdg#v=onepage&q&f=false



http://nightsky.jpl.nasa.gov/docs/SNUniverseWo.pdf
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Topics Covered • The supernova explosion releases a lot of the elements that were created in the star during its lifetime and also generates new elements during the explosion, all in the matter of a few seconds. • If these stars didn’t explode, all those elements would remain locked up inside the star. • Almost all the elements except hydrogen were originally generated inside stars and without supernovae to disperse those elements, almost everything we see around us, including us, would not exist.
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DubiousNotation said: Interesting point regarding DMT Eggtimer. The human race knows very little about it's own enviornment. Im pretty biased in regards to religious and "unreal" occurrences. Obviously I don't mean in the metaphysical sense, but am referring to occurrences bound by physics. I honestly hate discussing metaphysical concepts as it never seems to get anywhere as there is very little to no logical construct. A lot of people it seems use fluffed up words with sparse points. Im doing this to some degree, but Im tired. I agree with the OP personally. I would argue that a belief purely contained within your mind could very well be true, relatively speaking. Sure, it might externalize and interface with the world but it only becomes delusion when the world "reciprocates" your beliefs via skewed or biased perception. However I think you would have to further define delusion. I hold the belief that delusion is a belief such that is contrary to the logical nature of our world, in a word, physics.
Well physics doesn't show how everything works, it only works for larger systems. Quantum physics deals with all the small stuff that everything is made of and it doesn't seem to behave in much logical sense. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not logical in some way though. It means we don't understand it fully yet or it could be nonlogical or random. We still don't have any definitive theories for a joining of the small and the large. String thoery is about the only one I've heard.
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DubiousNotation
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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: Eggtimer]
#22002553 - 07/27/15 12:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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EggTimer Said: Well physics doesn't show how everything works, it only works for larger systems. Quantum physics deals with all the small stuff that everything is made of and it doesn't seem to behave in much logical sense. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not logical in some way though. It means we don't understand it fully yet or it could be nonlogical or random. We still don't have any definitive theories for a joining of the small and the large. String thoery is about the only one I've heard.
Quantum physics is logical within itself but as you have said, "joining of the small and the large" has proved itself a most challenging feat. Regardless, I believe what you are talking about is more molecular than metaphysical. My point is for someone to believe something that is contrary to what is known would be a logical fallacy. If what you believe cannot be traced to any logical point of data(what is known), as circular as it sounds, I implore you to use data, both physical and perceptual to formulate your own ideals. I do personally find the concept of alternate reality to be plausible. But I don't believe enough data has been gathered to say it exists with even the most infinitesimal amount of weight. To clarify, I am by no means giving an argumentum ad ignorantiam.
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Eggtimer
HotSauce Lover

Registered: 05/04/13
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Quote:
ZeroBoyWD said:
A mere 1000 miles straight into the air and suddenly you can't see people..... Due to the curvature of the planet, even on open sea you can't see things farther than 13 miles from 100ft in the air. Non-sequitur.
Non-sequitur means reaching false conclusions right? The curvature of the earth isn't a problem once you are not on it any more. The curvature of earth is only a problem while you're on it.
You can't see humans from space because we're small in comparison to the planet. Just as cells are small in comparison to us and our planet in comparison to the galaxies/universe. You have to zoom in or you don't see any humans.
http://www.livescience.com/33895-human-eye.html
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The Earth's surface curves out of sight at a distance of 3.1 miles, or 5 kilometers. But our visual acuity extends far beyond the horizon. If Earth were flat, or if you were standing atop a mountain surveying a larger-than-usual patch of the planet, you could perceive bright lights hundreds of miles distant. On a dark night, you could even see a candle flame flickering up to 30 mi. (48 km) away.
How far the human eye can see depends on how many particles of light, or photons, a distant object emits. The farthest object visible with the naked eye is the Andromeda galaxy, located an astonishing 2.6 million light-years from Earth. The galaxy's 1 trillion stars collectively emit enough light for a few thousand photons to hit each square centimeter of Earth every second; on a dark night, that's plenty to excite our retinas.

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satch1234
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Its not like on our way to mars in a rocket some undetectable, invisible force/entity appears and devours us. There is definetly some progress to be made in understanding, unifying the mechanics of everything but the current models do a damn good job.
Biochemistry has more unknowns I'd say, I mean we haven't even cracked Photosystem II! We can't even get a clean source of hydrogen, well plants do this everyday.
Edited by satch1234 (07/27/15 02:19 AM)
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Eggtimer
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Quote:
DubiousNotation said:
Quote:
EggTimer Said: Well physics doesn't show how everything works, it only works for larger systems. Quantum physics deals with all the small stuff that everything is made of and it doesn't seem to behave in much logical sense. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not logical in some way though. It means we don't understand it fully yet or it could be nonlogical or random. We still don't have any definitive theories for a joining of the small and the large. String thoery is about the only one I've heard.
Quantum physics is logical within itself but as you have said, "joining of the small and the large" has proved itself a most challenging feat. Regardless, I believe what you are talking about is more molecular than metaphysical. My point is for someone to believe something that is contrary to what is known would be a logical fallacy. If what you believe cannot be traced to any logical point of data(what is known), as circular as it sounds, I implore you to use data, both physical and perceptual to formulate your own ideals. I do personally find the concept of alternate reality to be plausible. But I don't believe enough data has been gathered to say it exists with even the most infinitesimal amount of weight. To clarify, I am by no means giving an argumentum ad ignorantiam.
gram = µg(microgram) _______ 1000000
What is it about the molecular things cause love and emotion to be experienced? What is it about these things that makes you. Everything that you are could theoretically be reduced to chemicals(molecules) (couldn't they be considered to be natural to the universe?) and electricity. Why is it that 125micrograms of a molecule(how many individual molecules are in 125 micrograms of LSD?) know as LSD can change someones way of consciously looking at things until they die? This is all just molecules right? Just because it's molecules doesn't mean it's a "dumb mechanical" event.
element - a basic substance that can't be simplified (hydrogen, oxygen, gold, etc...)
atom - the smallest amount of an element
molecule - two or more atoms that are chemically joined together (H2, O2, H2O, etc...)
compound - a molecule that contains more than one element (H2O, C6H12O6, etc...)
Edit: Shouldn't intelligence still work even on non molecular system such as digital ones? Here's some cool stuff about the maping of the internet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Mapping_Project

Edited by Eggtimer (07/27/15 02:00 AM)
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misterjingo
Divided by zero



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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: satch1234] 1
#22002672 - 07/27/15 02:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
satch1234 said: Peoples personality change dramatically after head trauma, drug abuse e.t.c I've seen it. I'd say that is evidence of the pointing towards the brain, infact all evidence points that way..
If you were to damage the thalamus your conscious experience would be completely different, or you may go unconscious from physical lesion.
This was the final nail in my belief of some kind of 'journey of the soul'. The belief that we repeatedly incarnate one earth to become more 'pure', 'advanced' etc. How does such a belief system gel with the fact that site specific brain damage can change the most saintly, compassionate person into a grasping deviant. It's sad to read the studies of such people who now can barely control their impulses in socially acceptable ways.
There does seem to be the common belief that because science can't explain everything (yet), anything is possible. If the brain, which is matter, can connect to these 'higher realms' / 'other dimensions' - for the experience to be remembered, there must be a physical action on the brain. So whatever 'energy' creates these experiences, would have a physical effect and so would be physically detectable. To date, no such energies have been detected in any way, shape or form - even after decades of testing and experimentation.
If there is more to reality than base matter and energy, I think most 'seekers' are blinding themselves with old spiritual ideas and systems which were formulated by the minds of men, at points where even lightning was an unknown and considered supernatural. If we ever want to make progress, we need to forge a new paradigm based upon the scientific method, and throw off the cosy, feel good belief systems. Take what works, discard the rest.
Edited by misterjingo (07/27/15 02:18 AM)
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: misterjingo]
#22002707 - 07/27/15 02:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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BTW, I love when people rattle off about quantum mechanics like they know what the hell they are talking about.
-------------------- I'm done trying to be "right." I want the exchange of ideas to be the currency of my economy. If you have something I can use, great. I'll try it out. If you think my methods are shit, great. Don't use it. We all want yields.
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ZeroBoyWD
Zombie



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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: ZeroBoyWD]
#22002714 - 07/27/15 02:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here's a fine question. All these entities/spirits/mogwai seem to constantly have altruistic goals; they want to help you by giving you a 'message'
How come that message isn't ever mathematics?
"Since you are here we want to teach you the deeper meaning of the universe. Now, we can either give you some information on how our species maintains an ability to communicate extra-dimensionally, OR we can tell you to love everyone and give peace a chance =D "
-------------------- I'm done trying to be "right." I want the exchange of ideas to be the currency of my economy. If you have something I can use, great. I'll try it out. If you think my methods are shit, great. Don't use it. We all want yields.
Edited by ZeroBoyWD (07/27/15 02:35 AM)
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satch1234
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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: Eggtimer]
#22002731 - 07/27/15 02:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eggtimer said:
Quote:
DubiousNotation said:
Quote:
EggTimer Said: Well physics doesn't show how everything works, it only works for larger systems. Quantum physics deals with all the small stuff that everything is made of and it doesn't seem to behave in much logical sense. That doesn't necessarily mean it's not logical in some way though. It means we don't understand it fully yet or it could be nonlogical or random. We still don't have any definitive theories for a joining of the small and the large. String thoery is about the only one I've heard.
Quantum physics is logical within itself but as you have said, "joining of the small and the large" has proved itself a most challenging feat. Regardless, I believe what you are talking about is more molecular than metaphysical. My point is for someone to believe something that is contrary to what is known would be a logical fallacy. If what you believe cannot be traced to any logical point of data(what is known), as circular as it sounds, I implore you to use data, both physical and perceptual to formulate your own ideals. I do personally find the concept of alternate reality to be plausible. But I don't believe enough data has been gathered to say it exists with even the most infinitesimal amount of weight. To clarify, I am by no means giving an argumentum ad ignorantiam.
gram = µg(microgram) _______ 1000000
What is it about the molecular things cause love and emotion to be experienced? What is it about these things that makes you. Everything that you are could theoretically be reduced to chemicals(molecules) (couldn't they be considered to be natural to the universe?) and electricity. Why is it that 125micrograms of a molecule(how many individual molecules are in 125 micrograms of LSD?) know as LSD can change someones way of consciously looking at things until they die? This is all just molecules right? Just because it's molecules doesn't mean it's a "dumb mechanical" event.
element - a basic substance that can't be simplified (hydrogen, oxygen, gold, etc...)
atom - the smallest amount of an element
molecule - two or more atoms that are chemically joined together (H2, O2, H2O, etc...)
compound - a molecule that contains more than one element (H2O, C6H12O6, etc...)
Edit: Shouldn't intelligence still work even on non molecular system such as digital ones? Here's some cool stuff about the maping of the internet. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Mapping_Project


Neurochemistry has a lot of this stuff worked out, these molecules absolutely modulate our emotions this has been shown extensively, it is not a reduction to qualify life as chemicals, everything you have ever experienced and remember is an amazing brilliant chemical interaction. There are 1.8066424e+18 atoms in 125 micrograms of lsd. How can lsd change someones perspective forever? How can a trip to an observatory change someone forever? How can seeing someone die change someone forever? It is really the same mechanism..
Edited by satch1234 (07/27/15 02:42 AM)
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misterjingo
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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: satch1234]
#22002742 - 07/27/15 02:51 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't think anyone is arguing that they / we / everything are dumb molecules. Just look at cellular automata, very basic rules giving rise to seemingly complex emergent behavior. We are infinitely more complicated, with only a rudimentary grasp of our most basic mechanics.
Just because we haven't fully formed conclusive theories of why an emotion we've labeled 'Love' is generated, or experienced, doesn't automatically back up philosophies of 'Love' being a universal energy which pervades everything. We're at a point now where we can actually watch memories being formed on a molecular level in real time. Given time, we will have a lot more answers to these questions. Whether those answers will be palatable is another matter.
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DubiousNotation
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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: satch1234]
#22003485 - 07/27/15 09:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Satch1234 said:
Quote:
Neurochemistry has a lot of this stuff worked out, these molecules absolutely modulate our emotions this has been shown extensively, it is not a reduction to qualify life as chemicals, everything you have ever experienced and remember is an amazing brilliant chemical interaction. There are 1.8066424e+18 atoms in 125 micrograms of lsd. How can lsd change someones perspective forever? How can a trip to an observatory change someone forever? How can seeing someone die change someone forever? It is really the same mechanism..
That seems very much like a reduction to me. You could say life is no more than an interaction with chemicals, but you could never use chemicals to fully represent human complexity. Its like trying to read a book by studying its atoms. You can understand the physical properties of the book and how it functions as a book, but to understand the concepts contained in the book with an electron microscope would be a farce. Philosophy has greater capacity to understand why someone does something than a microscope. Also, I don't think anyone claimed ingestion of chemicals cant change your perception for the remainder of your life. I believe the original argument was whether a chemical could "take" you to a place outside of the natural world.
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voodoochild1000
psychonautic



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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: Bill_Oreilly]
#22003545 - 07/27/15 09:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bill_Oreilly said:
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Matt87 said: Finally! Someone who enjoys psychedelics without spouting hippy bullshit!
Being aware of extre-dimensional perception has nothing to do with hippies, bullshit, or "hippy bullshit".
... Go Bill Go!
.....OP... You know I would be here 4 this....glad to inspire the post!.....good stuff!
-------------------- ....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD ...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post
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voodoochild1000
psychonautic



Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2,531
Loc: Cascades!
Last seen: 8 months, 15 days
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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: Eggtimer]
#22003553 - 07/27/15 09:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eggtimer said:
Quote:
ZeroBoyWD said: Ok, so I don't believe there is any drug you can take that will make you connect to any extra-dimensional state/plain/entity/hoodoo. The is no chemical reaction that can make your brain tap into external forces. Psychedelics aren't about reaching out, they are about looking in. Any manifestation that is experienced during the trip is 100% a product of your brain. No spirits, no angels, no secret dimensions.
Your brain is an awesome machine. Every moment there is a torrential flood of information bombarding your brain, nonstop. Its very taxing work. So your brain has adapted to filter out all kinds of information. Two big portions of these filters are your subconscious and unconscious mind. So when you start to come up, the filters start going away. So things like visual filters start going away, you get that whole, deep-focus and increased saturation. Music gets better, like you're hearing the signal uninterrupted. So you dose a little higher.
Next filters that start to slip are the ones of the subconscious. This is what helps you feel more emphatic toward others. Your subconscious harnesses all of your recall. Things you don't think about but can readily access when you focus on something. Without the filter, your subconscious starts reacting on a more primal level, an emotional one. A little higher and your subconscious starts reacting to things that just casually pass through your brain. This is where you can become sensitive to suggestion.
Go for those superhero doses, you break down the filters to the unconscious mind. This is where shit starts getting really nutty. Inexplicable shit, dissociation with reality, speaking with "entities." All of it is coming from inside yourself. You just keep going deeper and deeper into things that make less and less sense to you conscious mind.
Just armchair bullshitting
I'm not saying anything is guaranteed just think about the possibilities. Also if you haven't read or listened to any of Aldous Huxley on youtube really great to check out.
If the universe emulates it's self on every level then things you experience might be a reflection of smaller and bigger realities.

 Reality is relative at all levels. Just 1K miles up humans don't appear to exist any more. Just like you can't see all the things living on you. I think this data is old but there's still a lot of shit living on you that's not you. New estimates are only like 37trillion cells. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/strange-but-true-humans-carry-more-bacterial-cells-than-human-ones/ http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/23/science/37-2-trillion-galaxies-or-human-cells.html


....lmfao!....exactly. ....
-------------------- ....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD ...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post
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voodoochild1000
psychonautic



Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2,531
Loc: Cascades!
Last seen: 8 months, 15 days
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Re: Spirituality limits potential [Re: Starless]
#22003563 - 07/27/15 09:33 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Starless said: I have to side with OP here, there is no real evidence of psychedelics being anything other than internal experiences. That is not to demean them, though. Due to the fractal nature of reality, it's possible for one to draw conclusions about the outside world from understanding one's own mind, but not while bullshitting yourself. If altering the mind couldn't produce convincing changes in reality, then psychedelics wouldn't work in the first place. The human mind is an amazing but extremely fallible machine, eyewitness testimony has proven to be very unreliable in court, and that's without drugs being a factor. Psychedelics are all about questioning preconceived notions, so I think some of you need to think about whether you actually have sound reasoning for your beliefs.
Sound reasoning?..... this isn't chemistry 101! This is the psychedelic experience! I think it's extremely egotistical to think in any way that we got things figured out! It's very clear to me that human understanding is on a relatively low level! There's so many more things that we don't understand then what we do understand! And we understand so much more now than we did a couple hundred years ago! Things that used to seeing fantastical are now everyday! That's a line of reasoning that won't let you down! The fact that we don't know s***!
-------------------- ....."So Great!"....-Me on 1.5mg LSD ...."We don't need this" -Larkin in response to my "just picked wild LSD!" post
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