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Invisiblecaman
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Where is the soul commonly believed to reside?
    #21990696 - 07/24/15 03:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Is there even a common belief of where it is? As a child I always assumed it was in the heart but now I would have to say its in the brain.. but fuck if I know. Is the soul our consciousness? What do you guys & gals think?


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In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the mind, there are no limits.- John C. Lilly


Edited by caman (07/24/15 03:38 PM)


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: caman]
    #21990904 - 07/24/15 03:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

My guess would be that if it exists, it does not exist in the familiar dimensions of space or time.  What that leaves is hard to know.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: caman]
    #21990959 - 07/24/15 03:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I used to think brain but now I think heart. I don't know that it's a soul shelter but I'd say the heart houses a guide that's for us or of us or something. :shrug:  I also don't know but the heart has a wide variance of feels dependent on one's in-moment activity, even if it's projections into the future/past.


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: cez]
    #21990982 - 07/24/15 03:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Well I would think it is associated with us in a more general way than to try to pinpoint its location in the brain, the heart, the stomach or the pinky toe.  I think both brain and heart are fundamental aspects of the soul's activity, although I would point out that in most wisdom traditions it is thought wisest to focus one's being into the heart as much as possible, for maximum centeredness in compassion.


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: caman]
    #21991492 - 07/24/15 05:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

caman said:
Is there even a common belief of where it is? As a child I always assumed it was in the heart but now I would have to say its in the brain.. but fuck if I know. Is the soul our consciousness? What do you guys & gals think?




The soul is an emergent property of memories, senses and the processing of sensory data into memories.  When the memories go the soul dies.


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OfflineLived_1978-2043
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: caman]
    #21992502 - 07/24/15 08:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

In and around human body because it is bigger than the human body, and might be wormhole capable w/ human being manning capability on each end.


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: DieCommie]
    #21992930 - 07/24/15 10:14 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

caman said:
Is there even a common belief of where it is? As a child I always assumed it was in the heart but now I would have to say its in the brain.. but fuck if I know. Is the soul our consciousness? What do you guys & gals think?




The soul is an emergent property of memories, senses and the processing of sensory data into memories.  When the memories go the soul dies.



Lawl, have you experienced nothing but numbers, words, & logical reality your whole life?


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Offlinecbub
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: twighead]
    #21993565 - 07/25/15 02:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

japanese believe its in the gut, right above the belly button. Thats where they stab when they make the ritual suicide.

To my understanding, the soul is not in this space-time platform. Space-time is its doing, so its not in it. The soul "dreams" this world into existence, so anywhere is where the soul is. Read Jesuses quotes on kingdom of heaven and replace it with the word soul.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: cbub]
    #21993618 - 07/25/15 03:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

i thought it was just throughout the body


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drowse in prison and your waking will be but loss


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Invisiblecaman
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: g00ru]
    #21995356 - 07/25/15 01:54 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Interesting, a diverse set of opinions & beliefs on the whereabouts of the soul. Thank you all :smile:


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In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the mind, there are no limits.- John C. Lilly


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: caman] * 3
    #21995902 - 07/25/15 03:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

caman said:
Is there even a common belief of where it is? As a child I always assumed it was in the heart but now I would have to say its in the brain.. but fuck if I know. Is the soul our consciousness? What do you guys & gals think?




The soul (or psyche in Greek) is what we are. We ARE an embodied soul, a psychosomatic (mind-body) from a biblical and theological perspective. The psyche has no location, it is not a substance and does not occupy space or time, although it perceives the physical world through the body. The exact relationship of mind/psyche/soul to the body remains a controversy.

The spirit is the third aspect of the tripartite human being, sometimes referred to as nous, in the Greek to differentiate it from psyche. In Judaism, the soul has 3 aspects: the animal soul nephesh, the rational soul, ruch, and the spiritual soul neschamah. These aspects correspond somewhat to the three-fold Platonic soul except for Plato, the rational part is attributed to the brain, the emotional part to the heart and the appetitive soul to the stomach and genitals.

It is a frequent idea in all religious mysticisms: examples include Egyptian, Tibetan, Buddhist, Hindu, and Jewish forms, that there is a special relationship between the Heart and the Head. In Catholicism, the Sacred Heart is illustrated with a crown of thorns (which were placed on Jesus' head according to the myth), which has descended to encircle the Heart. The Halo in that iconography is a soft glow while the nimbus around the Heart is aflame. This idea is paralleled in Hindu Advaita as the Surya mandala (Sun) of the Heart which is reflected by the Chandra mandala (Moon) of the Head. The origin of Divinity therefore has precedence in the Hridayam, the Heart Cave or Sacred Heart in that system. Ramana Maharshi emphasizes the Heart for this reason. It is only in the linear Tantric systems where cosmic union is said to occur at the Sahasrara at the crown of the head that the head center is emphasized. Sri Ramana said that the Sahasrara and the whole chakra system is supported by the Heart. Those chakra-nadi processes are in the Astral body (Sukshma sarira), while the Hridayam of Sri Ramana is a deeper more fundamental reality of the Causal body (Karana sarira). Yet, deeper than the idea of locus is the Non-duality. In Vajrayana Buddhism, these Brain and Heart centers have a special relationship as 'the complementarity of OM and HUM' where OM represents the hyperpranic experience of dissolving the finite self into the Infinite, and HUM represents the Infinite manifesting within the finitude of the human heart. Lama Govinda therefore says that "HUM is more than OM," but I recommend that you read the passages yourself if interested in Foundations of Tibetan Mysticism.

In Jewish Kabbalism, the 'Lesser Countenance,' the Sun, is associated with the Heart (Tiphereth). the 'Greater Countenance' is associated with the Crown upon the head (rayed like the thousand petals of the Sahasrara in Yoga). In Christianized Kabbalah (Cabala), this is symbolized as the Son and the Father respectively. The union of Sun and Moon (the meaning of Hatha Yoga [Ha=Sun, Tha=Moon]), or the Blood and Water (solar and lunar) issuing from the pierced side of Christ, the Tibetan Buddhist union of Compassion (Heart) with Wisdom (Head), and several other symbolic systems, illustrate these transcendental paradoxes.

"Head and Heart are not apart." - Paul Reps


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineikku
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: DieCommie] * 1
    #21996048 - 07/25/15 04:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

caman said:
Is there even a common belief of where it is? As a child I always assumed it was in the heart but now I would have to say its in the brain.. but fuck if I know. Is the soul our consciousness? What do you guys & gals think?




The soul is an emergent property of memories, senses and the processing of sensory data into memories.  When the memories go the soul dies.



So according to you, an Alzheimer's patient has no soul, or at the very least is "less human" than those people that have memories. Same goes for a child who is too young to be making memories in the way that you or I do.

The soul is the consciousness of existence, which exists apart from the body and apart from the world we live in altogether. It perceives through the body and mind of the individual, but it is not entirely 100% identical with the body and mind. The body and mind go through many changes throughout an individual's life. A person may change their mind on many subjects, a person may identify with varying belief systems throughout their life (religious and otherwise....just as citizens of our countries, we are part of a social and economic belief system). Everything changes. It seems that change is the only true constant in our life. The soul is the true constant. The conscious perceiver of all that change that goes on throughout life. The soul is that part of you that is eternal and never-changing.


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Thanks shroomery!


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OfflineBrendanFlock
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: ikku]
    #22000728 - 07/26/15 04:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Ikku nailed it right on the hammer that hits the nail! For real the soul is our very root consciousness.. The common topic of reform..is our very being..which is a reflection of our soul..which in common nuance is a games speak..or news speak..all the speaking is done at behest of our soul..and we go through simulations like in a computer game..to find atonement that matches the soul precisely..we always will endeavour to exit and recommit to the values that the soul Has..it is indeed what Kabbalists call the Seat of the Soul..or the Adam Kadmon..which is the Creator..in Metra and Matrix..as pure Consciousness...and the degree to which we relate to that notion and thing in matter and belief..is our degree in Freemasonry..the Colour of the Soul is Orange and Yellow...and love is coloured in very many different Hues..but the Soul is the Colour of an Egg Yoke..and is the very Egg..that seeds the chicken..the ultimate game of chicken then is to combine our very notions of outside..with the true transparency of the inside world..and for the good and guff of all the Immortals..we challenge each other in Sword fights..and the Winner(Who is I Of Course or Obviously) is called the Gnostic..and it is with His sword that we are guided through the Events of the World..and Underworld..the Heaven is indeed in this Crusade which is a General Competition..it is how you act in this Competition which is your degree as a Templar who is Involved with Heavy fidelity Chivalry..

To this Degree do we (Exist)Speak Necessarily..it is called atonement to Christians..but if the best man were left alone..he would indeed rule the world..with a single Sword and strike to the common talent of All men..this is indeed the meaning of Being soulful!

Edit: And just to say, I have a 27th Degree in Freemasonry..And i am being blocked by the Heavenly Immortals..who are forbidding my chance at immortality..so in saying i am doing my best..i also reclude to tell them that i am a Superior Competitor..and in saying that I jest Necessarily..in the Good and Evil..


Edited by BrendanFlock (07/26/15 04:55 PM)


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InvisibleDieCommie

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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: ikku]
    #22001144 - 07/26/15 06:16 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ikku said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

caman said:
Is there even a common belief of where it is? As a child I always assumed it was in the heart but now I would have to say its in the brain.. but fuck if I know. Is the soul our consciousness? What do you guys & gals think?




The soul is an emergent property of memories, senses and the processing of sensory data into memories.  When the memories go the soul dies.



So according to you, an Alzheimer's patient has no soul, or at the very least is "less human" than those people that have memories. Same goes for a child who is too young to be making memories in the way that you or I do.





That is exactly how family members of Alzheimer patients describe it.  They describe the person they knew as dying a little bit at a time - its very hard on them for this reason.  To see the body and fragments of the spirit of the person they knew linger on while the vital essence, the soul, of the person they knew is gone.

Same thing for the child.  When my daughter was born she was less soulful than she is now.  As her senses, memories and ability to process senses into memories developed so did her soul.  The spark of life that we observe as the soul absolutely started out small and grows within a child over time.  I observed the same thing in my dogs that I raised from pups.


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Offlineikku
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22001264 - 07/26/15 06:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Not at all how I would describe a soul. The soul is something personal to me -- not to those around me. It is the internal experience, not the external appearance.

Edit: by the way have you ever spoken to an Alzheimer's patient? My aunt died from it. Up until the end, she was still a living soul, despite the fact that she had no idea who I was. She was out of touch with reality but there was still someone there.


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Thanks shroomery!


Edited by ikku (07/26/15 06:55 PM)


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22003158 - 07/27/15 07:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It's easy to confuse the personality with the soul, when they are not the same thing. The personality is who most of us believe we are, a bundle of impressions and experiences that makes us who we believe we are today. The soul is something quite different. It is eternal awareness, that can never get sick or be damaged or altered. The goal of most spiritual paths is the merging of the personality and the soul so that they exist as one.

The human body is a vehicle, a means of expression for eternal consciousness. Damage to the vehicle (the brain in Alzheimer's) may affect the outward expression of the light of the soul, but it does not damage the soul itself.


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Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: DieCommie]
    #22004408 - 07/27/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

caman said:
Is there even a common belief of where it is? As a child I always assumed it was in the heart but now I would have to say its in the brain.. but fuck if I know. Is the soul our consciousness? What do you guys & gals think?




The soul is an emergent property of memories, senses and the processing of sensory data into memories.  When the memories go the soul dies.




Memories belong to a portion of consciousness - the egoic-mind which is comprised of memories howsoever primitive (smells for example). The essential consciousness that underlies every 'form' is better described as soul (psyche), NOT its contents. Contents of the psyche are like clouds in a clear blue sky. Clouds arise and dissolve, but the sky remains ever-abiding. This is a Buddhist metaphor, and memories as well as one's egoic-identity (grown from a collection of sensory, emotional, and cognitive impressions), are not permanent. They perish, but the essential psyche remains. There is no immortality of the soul in Christianity, for example, the word is not in the Bible or in any of the extra-bibilcal writings. Eternal Life is biblical, and that is the life of God. God is said to be love (1 John 4:8), so it is love that is Eternal, hence the urgency of humans being identified with love. Only love survives death. Our "dewdrop [of love] slips into the Shining Sea [of Eternal Love]," to adapt Sir Arnold Edwin's poem 'The Light of Asia.'


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisiblecaman
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22005089 - 07/27/15 03:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I am loving all of these posts, I hope there is more to come :sunny:


--------------------



In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true is true or becomes true, within certain limits to be found experientially and experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the mind, there are no limits.- John C. Lilly


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InvisibleNemodeus
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: caman]
    #22018546 - 07/30/15 06:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Outside the three dimensional space/time we can perceive


--------------------
In an entheogen influenced moment of clarity I came to understand that reality manifests as a dream from the collective subconscious minds of all conscious entities. Nothingness made something because we collectively believe it into being, and physical laws given power by the reinforcement of conscious observation. Creation, destruction, and even time itself are but an aspect of ourselves and we of them. Life and death, simply illusions we face from a limited grasp of our own existence. We are one, all is eternal.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: caman]
    #22021384 - 07/30/15 06:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

caman said:
I am loving all of these posts, I hope there is more to come :sunny:




What shall we say, shall we call it by a name,
As well to count the angels dancing on a pin.
Water bright as the sky from which it came,
And the name is on the earth that takes it in.
We will not speak but stand inside the rain,
And listen to the thunder shouting "I AM! I AM! I AM." - 'Let It Grow,' Grateful Dead


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_many_angels_can_dance_on_the_head_of_a_pin%3F


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineAjahn Don
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22024319 - 07/31/15 01:08 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

What's the point?

I mean that in complete seriousness. There is a reason the unknowable is unknowable. Somehow we live with this. Why is this important?


--------------------
"He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: Ajahn Don]
    #22024386 - 07/31/15 01:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ajahn Don said:
What's the point?

I mean that in complete seriousness. There is a reason the unknowable is unknowable. Somehow we live with this. Why is this important?




What's the point to what? How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Did you read the Wiki article? That is precisely the point. There IS no point in asking questions like this, and the question itself has become a paradigmatic response to ANY question about unknowable metaphysical mysteries. Nobody can substantiate the reality of angels, but that hasn't stopped me from attempting to document a couple of 'seemingly' angelic beings in the book I've written. :wink:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineLSDLSDLSD
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #22025116 - 07/31/15 04:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Hmmm, Soular Plexus?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: LSDLSDLSD]
    #22025914 - 07/31/15 07:41 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LSDLSDLSD said:
Hmmm, Soular Plexus?




The animal of appetitive soul seems to operate from there in Plato and Hindu Yoga.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineDouglas Howard
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Re: Where is the soul commonly believed to reside? [Re: caman]
    #22027216 - 08/01/15 07:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

caman said:
Is there even a common belief of where it is? As a child I always assumed it was in the heart but now I would have to say its in the brain.. but fuck if I know. Is the soul our consciousness? What do you guys & gals think?





The soul is whom we are, but the body housed the soul. But for some reason we believed that the body is us; but it is only an instrument that we uses to operate in the physical world. We uses bulldozer to move things that we aren't able to move out of the way, and that is what our bodies is use for, to be able to operate in this dimension.


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