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OfflineConvergence
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Clonex on dry calloused trich??
    #21987962 - 07/24/15 12:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Trichocereus pach x scop

-Very fat cuttings, ranging from 9cm to 16cm thick.

-Thickest cuts are almost woody, from an old outdoor trich.

-All fan dried and 2 weeks old, well calloused. Some have a few dirty darker spots that are dry and not spreading. Most are clean white callouses and hard, sucked in.


My question is, can i dip/paint clonex on these cuttings? Im about to pot them in a dry mix and keep them in shade. Its perth winter so its actually quite warm during the day and between 5-12 degrees celcius at night. Also do i need to cut slits in the callous so the clonex can absorb, do i need to break the skin?

thanks.


--------------------
“Reality is what we take to be true. What we take to be true is what we believe. What we believe is based upon our perceptions. What we perceive depends upon what we look for. What we look for depends upon what we think. What we think depends upon what we perceive. What we perceive determines what we believe. What we believe determines what we take to be true. What we take to be true is our reality.”


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Offlineintelligentlife
Noaidi
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Re: Clonex on dry calloused trich?? [Re: Convergence]
    #21988142 - 07/24/15 01:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I've used to "paint" clonex with paintbrush to callous, but I used to do that for few day old callous to make sure it will be absorbed to plant. Sometimes +1week or maybe more (don't remember always)

Still seems it's worked, since root growth is relatively different and aggressive than without hormone.

I'm not sure if callous is very old, but it's worth a try. You don't need much. I think callous absorb the Clonex. Just "paint" the base with clonex, let gel dry and wait.

It effects to bigger cuttings by speeding them up and increase root growth when rooting start. With smaller ones, it doesn't much speed up the rooting, but when rooting starts Clonex increase root buds signifigantly, when comparing cuttings without it.

I plant cuttings mostly to empty pot, paint the few day old callous with Clonex and forgot them to pot. Usually when I check them weeks after they have roots and I can plant cuttings to soil.

Anyway, just my way to do cuttings, I've heard it from one oldschool grower about. It's easy to forget them in empty pot and they'll be fine. Just take them out from sun. You may as well root them to growing medium.

No need to "dip" cuttings to clonex like chilipepper plants or cannabis. Just take paintbrush, paint the callous and let Clonex dry. It dries relatively fast and doesn't run anywhere.

It should speed up big cuttings, but I haven't add it ever to big calloused ones. Only few days callous and I use Clonex to make sure it will absorb. It should absorb trough callous, test it? :smile:

It wont do harm, especially to big clones. Small, very small clones may die to dehydration if used Clonex for them. I mean ridicilously small cuttings can easily be killed with Clonex. Regular trich cuttings manage it well and doesn't respond so radically to Clonex.

Small I mean like 1,5cm diam and some 5-8cm height. Those size root on their own and Clonex probably "suck life" out of them. It seems to dehydrate the plant.

Reason why it speed up bigger cuttings (1meter or so) I don't know but all cuttings I've add Clonex will have shitloads of rootbuds and root growth compared to regular clones without hormones used.

I am 50/50 sure it will absorb trough older callous as well, but I can't say it based on experience since I've used it to "almost fresh" callous. I would not still cut any callous open.

Reason I let callous form day or few days is I don't spread possible fungi or mold to fresh cut with paintbrush and Clonex. So I've waited to get thin callous, still absorb Clonex. Some people use Clonex to fresh cut but I don't see difference to few days calloused ones. I mean to fresh cutting wound it's still more risky than few day old callous, still not so thick it absorbs Clonex.

It should work to old callous as well. Atleasy you see it later if there's more than "normal amount" of root buds growing from base, then Clonex have worked. I bet it will absorb trough older callous as well.

Only few times I've used it to older callous and seems plants do massive amount of roots compared to those with no Clonex. I think callous absorbs it anyway like skin does.(?)

Atleast it doesn't hurt the plant to add it to callous. I have feeling it might work to any callous, no matter of age of it. I've used it to 1day and 1week old callous of cut. Always worked. Maybe more than week, sometimse I forgot plants to dry longer than I've think about. Clonex still worked.

Not speed up the rooting much, but when rooting starts, it's vigorous growth of roots! Big cuttings seems to react as well faster rooting. I know only by experience, smaller the cuttings, less difference in time of rooting Clonex causes. But indeed it cause more than few root buds when roots starts to grow. Clonex roots are sometimes insane big and all over. Normally, no hormone used, rooting and have only few root buds instead.

Because it kill only small plants to by dehydrating, I think it's reason it speed up big ones a bit. Haven't notice much difference to ~12-15inch clones instead the amount of roots is ridicilous.

I have anyway used to +1week to +1day old callous with paintbrush only. With cacti I just want to make sure not spread any diseases to fresh cut etc. So I wait slim callous form capable to absorb Clonex easier.

It's good stuff if need to propagate big ones fast. With small ones as well it's good, rooting is more aggressive when it starts.

That size cuttings it's safe to use to speed up it a bit. If it's really heavy and big one. Seems it causes dehydration and later on rooting because of that. But I am not sure the function of it totally. I just know it works and only speed up biggest cuttings. Still making big and small cuttings grow more aggressively roots at point of rooting.

Maybe it speed up small ones as well but difference maybe just few days or so.

And my 50mL bottle have lasted loooooong time. I don't need much of it to spread and it's easier than powders. It will dry fast over callous(a bit pink color on it) and gel is easy to spread all over callous. Sometimes I add it around vascular ring By painting round "circle" to callous over vascular ring.

Some peeps use it to fresh cuts, but I can't say about it. Never done it myself to instant fresh cuts. Here mold and fungi kill cacti easy so it's relatively bad thing here(cold climate) and very risky.. It still absorbs trough few days old callous easy.. I can see it from aggressive root growth hormone causes.

Don't use it to small ones, it just dehydrate and kill them before roots. I mean very small ones do best without any hormones. Common size trichocereus it's relatively good rooting hormone, maybe feel a bit expensive but I have still enough of it even I've used it to every season to few cuttings.


Edited by intelligentlife (07/24/15 01:17 AM)


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OfflineConvergence
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Re: Clonex on dry calloused trich?? [Re: intelligentlife]
    #21988440 - 07/24/15 03:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

wow thanks for such an in-depth reply. I read this after I had already gone ahead and clonex potted 2 of the cuttings. Will there be a problem that I didnt really let the clonex dry properly before potting? My pot mix was bone dry, the clonex was still shiny wet (10-15mins). Hope its not a problem... At least I got about 8 more thick tips and log cuttings.


--------------------
“Reality is what we take to be true. What we take to be true is what we believe. What we believe is based upon our perceptions. What we perceive depends upon what we look for. What we look for depends upon what we think. What we think depends upon what we perceive. What we perceive determines what we believe. What we believe determines what we take to be true. What we take to be true is our reality.”


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Offlineintelligentlife
Noaidi
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Re: Clonex on dry calloused trich?? [Re: Convergence]
    #21988627 - 07/24/15 06:11 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I don't know but with cacti, you should wait 30-90min, depends how much there's heat etc, so Clonex dry to form of transparent pink-like surface layer above callous, barely vibile, depend how much Clonex you use to callous. I think it's better there's not moisture in case callous break drown from pressure of big clone. I've managed to have rot by piece of perite/rock puncture callous and moisture leak from cactus to soil, starting to host white mold and later on base rot of cutting. It's my climate cause them to be more sensitive and allow mold and fungi to perfect place to grow. Different climte than mine, no need to be so cautious with cuttings of trichocerei. But it may happen if it's too damp and not so warm soil. In case callous got punctured. In another climates puncture of callous may not even be a big problem at all. It's different here at cold and damp climate.

I have used to forgot cuttings to empty pot and check them when I remember. Takes a while but possible to root trichs like I do elsewhere as well, just don't let cuttings baking in too hot sun or lights. They do fine in shady indoor spot, cool enough. I find anyway clonex effect with that method better and I can inspect roots without causing damage for them. Or just check do cuttings have roots without they suffer from roots.

Rooted cactus in my climate seems to be more tolerated against damp and cold anyway. I don't think it happens most of the continents around with trichs. But moist juicy cactus, when broken, they are perfect hosts later on to mold here because climate do not heat enough to decrease humidity so there's nothing killing the mold or fungi. Only bridgesii among trichs is son of a bitch here. Cuttings may die slowly by hosting mold and when it starts to happen, thre's nothing to do. They turn hollow and dies. I've not succeed with bridgesii if they don't have roots. Or I have to invent something to root them in more dry to prevent them starting to host any molds and fungi. Other trichs do better as cuttings, bridgesii is only one hard to propagate here. They shock even from sun natural movement in sky occasionally. But only rooted ones manage easier and can stop sun spots or possible mold. I don't know why it happens but it's obvious, they are not good in constant damp and cold because humidity is constantly high. Mold and fungi is very easy to have to any cuttings here and climate benefits more mold than cactus cutting. Only pachanoi/peruvianus plants manage even they mold from base before rooting. Maybe few may rot because mold, but they do well compared to bridgesii clones.

I've never heard anyone else have problem with bridgesii and it's not common as cuttings around here and it's obvious, they just can't make it but pachanoi's and many other does well. Indicates they have developed and evolved relatively different rainfall and sunshine areas. I don't see other reason why bridgesii can't do without humidity drop during day, other does.

Afterall, in bolivia have so dry areas, even flesh wont rot. Back then it was easy to do mummies from dead ones. Some areas may not have had rainfall for decades. Water is worth on money in bolivia and goes and water sell is good business in that country. I suspect bridgesii just doesn't have evolved to resist against mold and fungi as much than others resist them. Probably there's no need to be able to resist mold if mold wont grow in that country so easy or at all. Depends where you are. I don't see other reason why bridgesii does it. I have one pachanoi clone behaves similar to bridgesii, afaik it's from area between those two plant species. But it's only pachanoi as prone as bridgesii to damp and moist.

Roots seems to have huge role to make bridgesii able to resist sunspots and mold what cuttings do not do and die easy even to sun spots because they keep on spreading. Or frost bite at tip may spread all away to base of cutting because there's good climate to many fungi and mold instead of cactus plants.

There's still big difference of behavior and I've seen only two groups inside trichs. Anothers resist lots of mold and even may rot and be able to cure minor rot. Bridgesii seems to lack protection against cold and humid longer periods of time, other trichs resist that easier and never have had same problems bridgesii plants have had always. And it's easy to get plant with roots to go ugly because bridgesii plants don't like sun movement here. Rooted plants get ugly over winter or not, I can't know it more than bridgesii's get easily ugly as rooted or cuttings is easy to kill here. TBM:s as well may be even hard to get rooting before they die for some reason and get hollow with mold inside the cactus, I have only on big bridgesii, but I had it with roots so it didn't had same problems cuttings had. I just wonder how others won't die like that and may resist mold of base when planted to growing medium.

Just saying, climate may effect more to whole plant and behavior of it, depends where you are. There are few species I can't grow, some may do after long drought weeks of -10C night frosts without dying. As long as they are dehydrated enough they do well. Not just trichs but many species have endure relatively long time frosts. Bridgesii here behaves different because it's frosts and still high humidity, but most species of cactus plants do well.

Once I've had one day lophophora in mailbox at -20C day at spring. They were alive still and get on growing after sun was risen again to new season. Some species seems to be very tough against frosts, especially longer the roots have been in dry and plant is dehydrated. Lophs and ariocarpus and few others seems very tolerate against frosts as well as trichs, trichs jut need enough dry to be able to manage in frosts without damage. I have moved them from house to another in car when outdoors had -35C. They exposed few minutes to very hard frost but no damage at all. Those temps cause water freeze in few seconds btw.

It may depend as well your climate is it ok to use moist clonex to base of cutting. I've really not tested it.

I still doubt it's not a problem if you have good callous on them. I mean using Clonex and plant those cuttings directly. Commonly it should let dry, it doesn't take much time at all, then plant cutting.

It won't take long time to let Clonex dry before planting the cuttings. I can't say more than assume because I always let Clonex gel layer dry above callous before planting them.

And I root trich cuttings in empty pot here. It takes longer but they'll form roots eventually anyways. I just forgot cuttings to one spot, later on when it's enough time passed I don't even know accurately, but at some point Clonex handled (or without) cuttings will grow roots from base as they dehydrate as well, Ready plant with root buds is easier to handle and plant wihtout possible problems climate cause here.

Climate of mine as well makes me do cuttings more safely without possible damage and mold/fungi get in plant trough broken callous for example. They rot easily here if callous get broken or soil have any water. It's most of year so damp and humid here it's easier to just forget the cuttings in empty pot. Especially big ones.

Don't know do clonex speed up it but I've had mostly good cuttings with roots from empty pot later when they have roots and ready to be planted. Just picking them up with roots and proper callous. Later I add soil in the empty pot(if I remeber to do so) but not so much, maybe moisten them as well at base but nothing more. But most of times I wait till they force roots placed to empty pot and forgotten for a while.. I have no hurry to get them root so fast but Clonex-handled cuttings do well and will gonna grow lots of root buds in empty pot in shady spot sooner or later anyway and those ones really have massive amount of roots. Those ones Clonex add to callous.

I can't usually root cuttings same way most growers do by planting heavy cutting to growing medium. Even a bit moisture and damp room temps may cause easy base rot of cuttings and molding so I avoid all of those by forget the cuttings to empty pots. I've lost too many of them by rooting tek people use in warm climates.

Once I stored parcel of clones, they rooted in cold inside cardboard box even purpose was not to have roots for them. :smile: But they rooted accidentally in sealed box at +15-20C temps or less. :lol: (Don't do this as rooting tek, lol, it was accident they had roots)

It takes longer time to have rooted cuttings in empty pot but I don't need to increase rooting speed by increasing possible mold/rot risk as well. This climate isn't for those plants so safest way, to me, is as simple as forgot the clones to non-direct indoor light sun gives and check them later on. They wont gonna die in empty pot and will grow roots only to base of cuttings in empty pot. It takes longer tho.. With big ones and no hormones, it may take long time, even whole season before roots.

Roots are anyway essential to any cactus plant so I find out it's easier to plant any column to growing medium when they have roots of somekind already so they starts to behave asap as rooted ones and drinking and grow more roots to soil. I don't mind it takes a while to get roots for cuttings because I tend to forgot them anyway and they success better without need to check underground after planting. Especially with clonex it works well, but I haven't lately rooted cutting witout Clonex gel.

I just let callous dry and it happens fast anyway with a bit smaller cuttnigs especially. I may have forgot cutting to dry longer than week and add Clonex to callous so it's possible it will absorb trough thick callous.

Atleast all cuttings have grown roots like Clonex should cause them to do and grow. But I barely count days, I just add gel to callous before callous goes to "ready-to-plant" and a bit older but not so old so hormones absorbs trough slim callous easier.
Your climate may be different anyway, but Clonex itself is same everywhere. I really don't know is it reasonable to plant them to growing medium when gel isn't dried first to very slight pink-layer. It won't take barely any time to let Clonex layer dry and then you can plant cuttings. You have to find out what happens with moist gel at callous underground. I don't know.

Atleast it won't do harm to bigger ones if it doesn't absorb trough callous and it's dry, that I know for sure, only very small cuttings may die to Clonex easy.

I have feeling it probably absorbs to plant no matter of callous age. I don't know but I assume it does. When they starts to root it can be seen does it have absorbed or not to benefit rooting. This is just speculation, but I think it should work to older callous too and absorb in to plant.

You have to find out does it work to old callous by using it and see. And I don't know what happens if you don't let gel dry to callous as layer. It's not so runny and dries fast as thin layer above callous.

There's not much "rules" how to use Clonex to cactus but I've played safe and never used clonex to fresh cut wounds. It still works to cactus plants as well. It's easier with cactus as gel than powder imo. If want to use hormone to root them. Most of times tirchs root fast enough without hormones, bigger ones seems take time longer to root without it. But Clonex isn't a super miracle magic and many growers do without it.

Depends much where you are and how big and how much plants you need to propagate does Clonex improve your work. With small scale propagation in good climate it may not be need to use Clonex with trichs. Depends much from many things is it good or not. Only harm I've find out it kills small cuttings to dehydration so it probably function to cactus cuttings by dehydrating the plant to force it seek water with roots.

I can say for sure it's good stuff here in my climate. Making easy to root cuttings in empty pot. So I can plant cuttigns with root buds already and be able to start watering to make sure watering won't kill cuttings here.

Most growers do not use Clonex with cactus because no need, but if you run nursery and use it as hormone to speed up the rooting of big clones for sale. But they use powder hormones as well. In large scale propagation I see hormones makes difference. Some nurseries use hormones to big clones or even all over one foot size plants. If you distribute lots of cuttings, then hormone for rooting seems better than no hormones at all. To propagate faster rooted clones for sale. In big scale it makes differnce more than small cultivation. Still works in small scale, but not as "perfectly" as it works in business since amounts and big size of clones increase benefit of hormone use greater than small scale grows.

I use it for reason of my climate makes it better to use Clonex than not using it. :sunny:

There's still many ways to root the cutting of trichs, with or without hormones. One suitable to anothers, may not work elsewhere.. So my way to root cuttings may be bad elsewhere and reverse. I've heard that tek of rooting I use for trichs from one elder dude grown those plants decades..


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