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Timmy Meow



Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 546
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Using "bulk substrate" as spawn?
#21986666 - 07/23/15 06:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Eg. Could one use colonized coir to spawn to a monotub of more bulk substrate?
Based on what I've read and tested, I assume the coir used as spawn would colonize the bulk substrate, but what I have no idea about is how this would fruit?
If you're going to tell me that it'll fruit poorly, then please explain exactly why or send me a link to someone who has tried and tested this already. PICS would be amazing if you have any to show possible results.
Please only reply if you really know your stuff.
I apologize if this is a silly question or if it's been answered somewhere already. I just can't seem to find any info about it though.
I am testing this myself, though haven't gotten to the fruiting part yet.
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ShroominMe
Stranger

Registered: 05/03/15
Posts: 525
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: Timmy Meow]
#21986699 - 07/23/15 06:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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There is inoculation medium (WBS, grains, cakes) and bulk sub (coir, straw, hpoo etc). The difference between the two is that the inoculation medium is much more nutritionally dense.
Basically your idea is the same as spawning to bulk with a very low spawn:sub ratio. I could work but there would be an increased chance of contams due to the time it would take to fully colonize.
It would be more prudent to just use more fully colonized jars/bags/cakes in the same amount of sub.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: ShroominMe]
#21986713 - 07/23/15 07:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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This is called super spawning and it sucks unless you're doing it outside.
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uninc4life2010
Unincorporated



Registered: 06/05/10
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: Inocuole]
#21986816 - 07/23/15 07:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It is generally best to use WBS or Rye berries as spawn. I've never used bulk as spawn before, and I would assume that it might be difficult to break up should you ever try and do a G2G transfer. Keep it simple and just use grain as spawn.
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Timmy Meow



Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 546
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Quote:
ShroominMe said: It could work...
Thank you! Positive vibes
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Inocuole said: This is called super spawning
Thank you so much, I never knew that. Easier to do more research on it now 
Quote:
uninc4life2010 said: I've never used bulk as spawn before... Keep it simple and just use grain as spawn.
Considering this way over grains as there are so many benefits should it work well. No pressure cooker required for 1. Coir also seems to breaks up quite easily.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: Timmy Meow]
#21986888 - 07/23/15 07:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you want to fail where many others have failed before, then go ahead, but this isn't something you're the first to think of. It doesn't work well, and it doesn't produce well if you do get it to work.
If the only benefits you can think of are steps that you might be able to get away with skipping, then it might be good to revise your strategy.
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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest


Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
Loc: HTTP 404 Not Found
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: Inocuole]
#21987408 - 07/23/15 09:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: This is called super spawning and it sucks unless you're doing it outside.
This.
Have you ever seen a wild patch of cubensis growing as dense as they do in a monotub?
The bulk of nutrition is coming from the grain spawn when we cultivate domestically. Eliminating that nutrition source drastically reduces yield.
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ICEMANOO9
Ssi


Registered: 06/25/12
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 8 days
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: ICEMANOO9]
#21987519 - 07/23/15 10:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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the answer is simply make more spawn right from the start
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Buck513
Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: cronicr]
#21987566 - 07/23/15 10:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Cron wasting no time whipping these noobs into shape
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: Buck513]
#21987593 - 07/23/15 10:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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glad to be back....just need to find someone to ban it's been awhile
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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uninc4life2010
Unincorporated



Registered: 06/05/10
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: cronicr]
#21987697 - 07/23/15 10:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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There are reasons that growers do not use this method. That being said, I'm not going to tell you what you can't do. My advice is to experiment and see where it leads you.
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: cronicr]
#21987747 - 07/23/15 11:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said:
glad to be back....just need to find someone to ban it's been awhile
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,855
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: azur]
#21987826 - 07/23/15 11:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eliminating that nutrition source drastically reduces yield.
Adding more bulk substrate isn't really eliminating anything but yeah I would consider it an inefficient use of resources.
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wildernessjunkie
Reshitivest


Registered: 06/13/10
Posts: 8,118
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: Kizzle]
#21987960 - 07/24/15 12:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Might have been poor wording on my part. My experience says that the lower the grain spawn ratio, the lower the performance.
Longer colonization times, lower yeild, and fewer flushes.
Have you experienced something different? Maybe my experience is culture/condition/substrate related.
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uncle_rico
my own worst enemy


Registered: 03/28/06
Posts: 2,664
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: Timmy Meow] 1
#21987993 - 07/24/15 12:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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that technique is called "super spawning", if I remember correctly.
a nice bulk substrate with lots of grain spawn is awesome for nutrition and fast growth.
super spawning misses that boost from fresh fully colonized grain spawn.
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Kizzle
Misanthrope


Registered: 08/30/11
Posts: 9,855
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: uncle_rico]
#21990896 - 07/24/15 03:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I guess what it really comes down to is what spawn ratio you're using in the first place. If it's pretty high then you might see some benefit from spawning to more bulk substrate.
The only time I've done it is when I've run out of coir, spawning to a little vermiculite to get it started and adding the coir later when I get some more.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: Kizzle]
#21991436 - 07/24/15 05:34 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Glad to see you're still at it Kizzle,
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Timmy Meow



Registered: 04/05/15
Posts: 546
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Excited to see how my lil experiment turns out. 
Got my answer and to my understanding it will work amazing as long as I have plenty of spawn. That pretty much answers it.
Quote:
wildernessjunkie said: The bulk of nutrition is coming from the grain spawn when we cultivate domestically. Eliminating that nutrition source drastically reduces yield.
This:
Quote:
cronicr said: the answer is simply make more spawn right from the start
...and this:
Quote:
RogerRabbit said: What new growers seem to have a problem with is thinking you can add 'nutrients' and get bigger or more mushrooms. The fact is, the mushrooms will fruit best in a substrate nearly depleted of nutrients. The supplements are fine if they help get the substrate colonized faster, but if you have a high nutrient load at fruiting time, you'll get more mutants and fewer actual mushrooms, plus have a lower B.E. RR
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Using "bulk substrate" as spawn? [Re: Timmy Meow]
#21991805 - 07/24/15 06:48 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's about balance and unless your first substrate is unbalanced, you won't get balance by spreading it thinner.
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