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Sadegh
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Registered: 07/18/15
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Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes?
#21985058 - 07/23/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I did search previous posts before writing this and didn't find exactly what I wanted, so bear with me.
I am new to this, just got my pre-colonized king oyster kit today, hope it doesn't bomb. I may be jumping the gun here since I haven't yet seen the first pin but I like to think ahead. Eventually I want to move on to spore syringes and my own homemade substrates, at least. Just how clean is clean enough?
To be clear, I mean to grow things like oysters, shiitake, lion's mane, maybe even some bioluminescent ones for the lulz. Don't mean to grow any psilocybes but I don't judge. I will almost certainly be using PF-Tek or one of the newer slight variants with a fruiting chamber made out of a simple plastic bin. Questions I have in mind included but not limited to:
- If I leave a few agar plates open for a while in the garage then let them grow and only get a few colonies per, am I in good shape?
- Do I really need a glovebox?
- How badly do I need gloves generally? I mean I have them but they limit my dexterity somewhat.
- How much do I really need to clean myself/the house/the immediate working environment?
- Is it really bad that the HVAC unit in the garage seeps some air, though not directly towards where I'm growing?
Any advice you want to add to the answers to these is entirely welcome.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: Sadegh]
#21985125 - 07/23/15 02:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's best to be sterile with prints and spores, but they are fruited in open air. It's kind of hard to have prints be sterile. That's where agar comes in. You isolate clean growth, make slants for storage, and make liquids or drop wedges for inoculation.
I don't get the first question. I wouldn't want agar stuff to be in a room with access to outside air. Especially a big garage door.
2nd I'd strongly recommend you don't use a glove box. A still air box is what's recommended. It's a glove box without the gloves. You just use disposable gloves. This way you can flame your tools outside the box.

3rd no gloves needed in a still air box
4th read my sterile procedures link in my signature. Honestly I just spray the sab with soap and water. Wait for everything to settle. Slap on disposable gloves, and work with the techniques outlined in it.
5th, agar and spawn should have filters in place. This means they can basically be left anywhere not too windy and won't contaminate.
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Machiavelliavore
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: Sadegh]
#21985178 - 07/23/15 02:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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- If I leave a few agar plates open for a while in the garage then let them grow and only get a few colonies per, am I in good shape?
I'm not sure exactly what you mean, but if you work with agar plates in open air, all you will get is a petri shaped guide to airbourn contaminants.
- Do I really need a glovebox?
Still air box, it will help immensely, you'll need it eventually if you're serious, and it costs 7$, so get it.
- How badly do I need gloves generally? I mean I have them but they limit my dexterity somewhat.
It's highly advisable. Use nitrile gloves. I don't feel they limit my dexterity and they are very comfortable, pretty cheap. I re-use them, so I get like 3 months of work out of 8 gloves from the dollarstore. Get some tyvek USPS priority evelopes, cut the side with the tape strip off, wrap it around your arm, and and seal it with the tape. Bam, free tyvek sleeves.
- How much do I really need to clean myself/the house/the immediate working environment?
I never have. Just do clean work in the still air box. What's important is shutting down air movement, closing windows and doors before working, preferably 45mins before working is the number you hear for most airbourn contams to have fallen.
- Is it really bad that the HVAC unit in the garage seeps some air, though not directly towards where I'm growing? It doesn't matter for growing, it matters for airbox work.
I think you're a bit mixed up about where sterile work is needed and where it isn't.
Sterile work is needed to colonize nutritious media with the mushroom mycellium exclusively, such as grains, pf cakes, agar plates, and liquid cultures. Fully colonized material, generally speaking, will not contaminate until it is dying (nutrition depleted.) Basically that means you leave appropriate lids on containers, and only open them in a still air box for breif periods.
Now while saying that these things don't contaminate when they are fully colonized is true, if you want to use them to inoculate more nutrtious media, sterile procedure must still be observed, as contaminant spores and bacteria can still land on the mushroom mycellium, if you say, took an open colonized agar plate, walked around the block, then went back home and tried to inoculate a jar of grains with it.
Bulk substrates are mostly non-nutritious materials that grains are spawned to for added water capacity and a bit of nutrtion. Sterile procedure does not typically need to be observed with bulk substrates, because they are not nutrtious enough to be susceptible to contamination, and the grain "spawn" we add to them is already colonized, so it cannot contaminate. I'm not sure where wood falls in this spectrum, as I haven't worked with it.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: Machiavelliavore]
#21985190 - 07/23/15 02:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Wood is even more contamination resistant over any cube based (high cellulose) substrate lol
Edited by Mad Season (07/23/15 02:41 PM)
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Machiavelliavore
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: Mad Season]
#21985198 - 07/23/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yeah, that was my impression then I read something about it molding easily yesterday. Guess that was misinformation.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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MudaFuka
Poppin bottles



Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: Sadegh]
#21985201 - 07/23/15 02:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is this a troll? First off if you only plan to grow edibles you will get better responses from the gourmet and medicinal board. You don't want to use PFtek to grow any of the species you listed. most edibles preform best on supplemented sawdust, wood chips, straw or some combination there of. No you can't ever leave agar plates open. An SAB or flow hood is a must. gloves aren't necessary in a SAB but they are a good idea. for fruiting you don't need things to be sterile but you should keep everything as clean as you can through out the entire process. Oh and for edibles you will likely get better results by starting with live cultures rather than spores. Someone has already isolated a good strain so you might as well use it.
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MudaFuka
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Registered: 12/14/13
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: MudaFuka]
#21985246 - 07/23/15 02:51 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Mold will grow quite easily on wood. It won't mold as easily as highly nutritious things like grain but wood is a mold magnet compared to coir, verm.
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Sadegh
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: MudaFuka]
#21986947 - 07/23/15 07:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MudaFuka said: You don't want to use PFtek to grow any of the species you listed.
All I can tell you is that PF-Tek is described extensively in The Essential Guide to Cultivating Mushrooms which is not primarily about psilocybe cultivation.
Quote:
MudaFuka said:No you can't ever leave agar plates open.
I wasn't quite clear perhaps. Here I am talking about agar plates that are not being used for any part of the mushroom cultivation process. They are simply being used to gauge the level of contaminants in the growing environment. Several agar plates are exposed to air for approximately half an hour and then closed. If only a few colonies form on each dish from ambient fungi and bacteria then, ostensibly, the level of contamination is relatively low. The aforementioned title suggests this technique.
Edited by Sadegh (07/23/15 08:11 PM)
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MudaFuka
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Registered: 12/14/13
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: Sadegh]
#21987094 - 07/23/15 08:15 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I did misunderstand that point. Still any agar plate you leave open in any room will grow mold and bacteria there are millions of spores everywhere. using an open plate is a good way to test a new flow hood but there's no use in testing the rooms air that way. You still don't want to grow edibles on PF cakes. look around and see how many successful growers are using PF cakes for edibles or cubes for that matter.
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Sadegh
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: Sadegh]
#21987173 - 07/23/15 08:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have advice from different sources all of which seems to come from people with substantial experience but doesn't all agree. I'll just try to pick something that seems sensible and we'll see how things turn out. Maybe there isn't much use completely jumping the gun like this.
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Inocuole
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: Sadegh]
#21987199 - 07/23/15 08:37 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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The best advice is still to make a topic in the correct forum since this is for actives.
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Machiavelliavore
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: Sadegh]
#21987208 - 07/23/15 08:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think the thing about growing edibles on PF cakes is this: People eat 1.25 to 2.5 oz of actives maybe once a month. People eat 8-16 oz of culinary mushrooms in one meal.
Assuming the amount of any mushroom species produced from a cake is the same we're talking 4-8 cakes per meal worth of mushrooms. Edibles just require a scale of growing to which PF tek is not suited. Vermiculite and flour (even if you use rye) is going to be a very expensive substrate to grow on, probably costing as much or more than 1lbs of button mushrooms cost, and perhaps 1/2 of what oysters cost, and 1/4 of what shitakes cost.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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MudaFuka
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Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: Sadegh]
#21987218 - 07/23/15 08:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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We never completely agree around here. Everyone has a different situation and we are constantly learning new things. so what was good advice last year is considered by many to be wrong today. The key is to get a good over all understanding of what mushrooms want and need. Then use that information to tailor a growing method that best suits your specific situation.
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Sadegh
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: Inocuole]
#21987265 - 07/23/15 08:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: The best advice is still to make a topic in the correct forum since this is for actives.
My mistake. I'm new here.
Quote:
Machiavelliavore said: I think the thing about growing edibles on PF cakes is this: People eat 1.25 to 2.5 oz of actives maybe once a month. People eat 8-16 oz of culinary mushrooms in one meal.
Assuming the amount of any mushroom species produced from a cake is the same we're talking 4-8 cakes per meal worth of mushrooms. Edibles just require a scale of growing to which PF tek is not suited. Vermiculite and flour (even if you use rye) is going to be a very expensive substrate to grow on, probably costing as much or more than 1lbs of button mushrooms cost, and perhaps 1/2 of what oysters cost, and 1/4 of what shitakes cost.
That's an excellent point and is well worth my consideration.
Edited by Sadegh (07/23/15 08:56 PM)
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Inocuole
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? [Re: Sadegh]
#21987291 - 07/23/15 09:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm only saying that for your benefit, in the interest of getting the most relevant answers the most quickly. And yes Muda's point there is dead-on. I've seen some impressive grows around here though, I'm sure somebody can get you pointed in the right direction.
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cronicr


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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? (moved) [Re: Sadegh]
#21987635 - 07/23/15 10:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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This thread was moved from Mushroom Cultivation.
Reason:
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Sadegh
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? (moved) [Re: cronicr]
#21987918 - 07/24/15 12:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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OK so re-reading some material I have here it looks like it would make sense to do PF-Tek for edible mushrooms for a while and then after that I would move on to bigger and better things which may well require an increasing degree of cleanliness.
I just hope I don't need to do invest in (building) a flow hood any time soon.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? (moved) [Re: Sadegh]
#21987984 - 07/24/15 12:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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No need to get a flow hood. 10$ Still air boxes ftw
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Sadegh
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? (moved) [Re: Sadegh]
#21988061 - 07/24/15 12:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank God.
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Machiavelliavore
Vermiculite Hater



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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? (moved) [Re: Sadegh]
#21988347 - 07/24/15 02:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Injecting spores into a jar of grain spawn through a silicon injection port doesn't really require any sterile technique unless you are incapable of operating a lighter.
Not sure exactly what form edible stuff is delivered in, syringes of LC I think? Same deal with an injection port.
At least don't bother buying PF tek half pints and screwing up the lids with 4 holes. Just buy some quart PP5 twisttop containers (ie ziplock twist n lock,) sand either side of the lid, burn a hole in the lid with a soldering iron, and put a glob of silicon on either side. Slightly untwist the lid for GE during the PC run, then twist it shut as you remove it.. These make great spawn jars, and you can put a cup of PF sub in the bottom and noc it through the port no problem. Just adjust the angle of the container to acheive 4 inoculation points.
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I spawned some popcorn casings and had double-overlay cause I didn't put enough hydrogen peroxide in my automated aquarium mister. I only got one mushroom so I cut off the head part where the seeds fall from and put it in a jar of LC and sprayed it all over a tin of PF cakes I made with gravel, cardboard, and bisquick in my microwave. I think it will be good cause B+ is so potent. Triggered yet? Only a square would say "a cube is a cube."
No, this does not look right...
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Sadegh
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Registered: 07/18/15
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Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: Just how clean do I need to be when growing out substrates from spore syringes? (moved) [Re: Sadegh]
#21988355 - 07/24/15 02:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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With respect, that would require a few tools I don't have / don't know how to use properly.
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