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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2199490 - 12/24/03 10:11 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Swami, do you have a link for any of those statements? Because there are quite a few books that touch on this issue,
Did you know that there are over 400 books on Atlantis ALL based on a half-page myth written by Plato? Not one author gives any new facts. The sheer volume of noise doesn't mean a thing.

...so if you have some information to truly debunk the myth can you give a link?
Can you give a link showing that my prophecy that we will all turn into tree frogs on 2050 is false? Makes as much sense.


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The proof is in the pudding.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: MAIA]
    #2199495 - 12/24/03 10:17 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

We ALL love that glyph simply because it is mysterious and subject to most any interpretation that we want to give it. It actually predicts that I will get laid by twins on Christmas eve 2003... :spliff:


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InvisibleSwami
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: Frog]
    #2199536 - 12/24/03 10:34 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

"There have been many prophesies for us to think about over the ages. Some have materialized while others have not. All prophecy is fluid and changeable. The reason is simple."

Yes folks, the reason is quite simple: it cannot be done. And by calling it "fluid" the prophet has the ever present, built-in escape clause when it does not materialize. How c-o-n-v-e-n-i-e-n-t! And if the "propecy" accidentally comes close, then they are brilliant magi. Great when you can have it both ways!

Using this tasty morsel of "logic", everyone can be a prophet and you are NEVER wrong.  :razz:


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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Registered: 11/03/03
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: Swami]
    #2199613 - 12/24/03 11:12 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

"Can you give a link showing that my prophecy that we will all turn into tree frogs on 2050 is false? Makes as much sense."

No, it is a little different. Supposed experts on Mayan culture and hieroglyphics have sat down and tried to make sense of them within the context of what is known about their culture, and their books are the results. That is not the same as making some prophecy up out of thin air. Maybe their results of are wrong, or maybe the interpretations are correct and the Mayans themselves were crazy and it is all nonsense, but you (I am assuming you do not have any experience with Mayan culture/hieroglyphics, let alone hieroglyphics or archeology) do not have any credibility to go around telling how valid an interpretation is. The question then is: how valid are the interpretations? On that account, I agree with you that these glyphs may in fact be completely misinterpreted, but I still hold the opinion of someone who has dedicated their life to understanding the Mayans more than you.

"Did you know that there are over 400 books on Atlantis ALL based on a half-page myth written by Plato? Not one author gives any new facts. The sheer volume of noise doesn't mean a thing."

Atlantis actually HAS been found. It was on the island of Santorini, and was a civilization that existed around 1600 B.C. They had indoor plumbing/elaborate pipe systems and modern type housing/ construction. It was destroyed by a volcanic eruption. Plato most likely exaggerated his claims to get a point across.

The point is, that myth sometimes has some basis in fact which should not be immediately discounted. Atlantis- just like Knossos and the Labyrinth, or the Troy/Greek conflicts- has shed light on some unknown facets of history, and is part of a growing trend among historians to take myth more seriously, as it may have some validity in understanding unknown epochs of history. Therefore, I do not think it is fair to completely discount Mayan myths or their interpretations, and relegate them to the level of impossibility that you have.

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: Frog]
    #2199623 - 12/24/03 11:20 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Revisited? It's 8 years from now...


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2199624 - 12/24/03 11:23 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

"Atlantis actually HAS been found. It was on the island of Santorini, and was a civilization that existed around 1600 B.C. They had indoor plumbing/elaborate pipe systems and modern type housing/ construction. It was destroyed by a volcanic eruption."

Do more research. That's a theory, not commonly accepted as the truth.


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"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2199630 - 12/24/03 11:25 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

"and is part of a growing trend among historians to take myth more seriously, "

Is it? I haven't heard anything about this trend.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleTrueBrode
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: Phluck]
    #2199643 - 12/24/03 11:36 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Oh, you may want to take a history class then. My most recent history teacher must have mentioned it at least five times throughout the semester.

Yeah, the Atlantis thing is "technically" still a theory, but in this case how could it not be? Do we have to find a sign that says "Welcome to Atlantis" or can we assume, for now, that this is the closest thing to any Atlantis that existed.

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2199656 - 12/24/03 11:46 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Well, first of all, I don't think it's a new trend at all to look at myths to discover information about the past.

I seem to recall a handfull of other equally credible theories about Atlantis, I don't think the mystery is anywhere near solved. I don't think we should be assuming anything.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2199668 - 12/24/03 11:52 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Let's be honest, brothers.

Man can use logic to his benefit, for that is what logic is for. Any man can wisely arrange words to disprove almost anything.

Just because there wasnt enough logical evidence to support the earth was round during Galileo's time, doesn't mean he was wrong. In fact, in moderm times, we have evidence that shows it is round.


Just because there isnt enough evidence to show truth within the Mayan Calender, doesn't make the ideal wrong.

Obviously, everything in the universe works in cycles, nothing is linear. The only things that are linear are manmade creations. It'd be a shame for man to think humanity doesn't go through cycles, since we are created of God (if you havent realized God yet, than replace that word with the universe, or flow of spirit, or energy, or the Source).



There isn't any logical evidence to prove God exists, but that doesn't mean he doesn't.



Evidence is for faithless people. Never have faith in other people, but ALWAYS have faith in yourself.

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: TrueBrode]
    #2199669 - 12/24/03 11:52 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Supposed experts on Mayan culture and hieroglyphics have sat down and tried to make sense of them within the context of what is known about their culture,
Yes, this is the PURPOSE of archaeology; not New Age prophecy.

...and their books are the results.
Please list a book or two about any 2012 prophecy written by a PhD archaeologist to back up your assertion.

Maybe their results of are wrong,
Agreed.

or maybe ... it is all nonsense,
Agreed.

do not have any credibility to go around telling how valid an interpretation is.
I don't need any credentials. There is this little, itsy-bitsy, tiny thing called precedent. For us to believe in a future prophecy of the Mayans (if they in fact EVEN made any) past prophecies would have to shown to be true (there aren't any).

ALL the believers KEEP forgetting that the Mayans did not give a damn about the future of some unknown race (Norte Americanos), but were concerned about their OWN health and security and mysteriously missed the HUGE propecy of their own demise. Kind of an oversight, mmm?

but I still hold the opinion of someone who has dedicated their life to understanding the Mayans more than you.
Dedication is noble, but meaningless without results. Alchemists dedicated their lives to turning lead into gold. Are they credible?

"Did you know that there are over 400 books on Atlantis ALL based on a half-page myth written by Plato? Not one author gives any new facts. The sheer volume of noise doesn't mean a thing."

Atlantis actually HAS been found.
Your comment (even though merely an opinion and not a fact), is totally nonresponsive to the fact that these 400+ books added NOTHING to the body of knowledge; merely the author's bank account.

The point is, that myth sometimes has some basis in fact which should not be immediately discounted.
Relevance? The myth of the Mayans propehcy is recent and not ancient handed-down stories.

Therefore, I do not think it is fair to completely discount Mayan myths
But these are NOT Mayan myths, they are modern myths of predominantly white bored middle America. Hopefully you can see the HUGE difference.


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2199671 - 12/24/03 11:53 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

There isn't enough evidence to prove Swami's prediction that we will all become tree frogs in 2050, either.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: Phluck]
    #2199675 - 12/24/03 11:56 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

I never claimed his predication was false.

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OfflinePhluck
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: Swami]
    #2199677 - 12/24/03 11:59 AM (20 years, 3 months ago)

"But these are NOT Mayan myths, they are modern myths of predominantly white bored middle America. Hopefully you can see the HUGE difference. "

BINGO.


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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InvisibleSwami
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Registered: 01/18/00
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2199679 - 12/24/03 12:01 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

we have evidence that shows it is round.

The earth is spherical. (Geometry time...)


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OfflinePhluck
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: tekramrepus]
    #2199680 - 12/24/03 12:01 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Do you think it's as likely as the 2012 prophecy?


--------------------
"I have no valid complaint against hustlers. No rational bitch. But the act of selling is repulsive to me. I harbor a secret urge to whack a salesman in the face, crack his teeth and put red bumps around his eyes." -Hunter S Thompson
http://phluck.is-after.us

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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: Swami]
    #2199681 - 12/24/03 12:03 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

you know what i meant :smile:

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InvisibleSwami
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: Phluck]
    #2199684 - 12/24/03 12:07 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

McKenna said, " I will be 65 in 2012." Guess he failed to see his own demise just like the Mayans. The brain-dead see no significance in this.


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Invisibletekramrepus
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: Phluck]
    #2199685 - 12/24/03 12:07 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

Personally Phluck, I think its just as likely, yes.

I don't believe in channelers, or prophets, or people who claim they can see into the future, or predict the future. I'm not saying that its not possible, but I'm saying its not reliable.

I myself have many predictions on the future, but they are just that.

If nothing special happens in 2012, I won't be suprised. If humans consciousness remains the same for the next 50 years, I still can't be suprised.


I don't find it impossible though, or even illogical.

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: 2012: Revisited [Re: Swami]
    #2199690 - 12/24/03 12:11 PM (20 years, 3 months ago)

> The earth is spherical.

Actually, the earth is a geoid (almost an ellipsoid rotated about it's semi-minor axis), not a sphere (spherical). (I spent too much time in GIS...)


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