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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: qman]
    #21996750 - 07/25/15 06:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The experts disagree

Well, at least one credible source (University of Texas) says otherwise. I guess it will be for the investigation to conclude.

At any rate, I contend that the onus for deescalating is on the trained sworn officer wielding weapons, not the woman whose only offense appears to be a civil traffic infraction.

The officer's behavior was grossly unprofessional at best, but I think the investigation (now that it's in the light of free press) will find that he broke policy and he will be reprimanded.

There is no defensible reason for the cops behavior.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleNiffla
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/09/08
Posts: 46,489
Loc: Texas
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Diploid]
    #21996789 - 07/25/15 07:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Vegas has released their rioting odds on this

Got it at 3 to 1

I think I'll put $100 on it

:lookslucrative:


--------------------


HAIL OUR NEW OTD KING


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: qman]
    #21996815 - 07/25/15 07:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said: The experts disagree-  http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-sandra-bland-arrest-experts-20150722-story.html#page=2




You are quoting out of context.

Here it is again in context:

Quote:

“He certainly has the legal authority to get her to step out of the car,” Stoughton said. “But in this case, if he is exercising his authority because she defying his direction to put out the cigarette, then that is more based on his ego than public safety.




And this one:

Quote:

“The officer here acts very appropriately up until the time he says can you put out that cigarette and she asks why she cannot smoke in her car,” Obayashi said. “He then says, ‘I need you to step out of your car.’ Under Supreme Court doctrine he has the right to tell her to step out of the car.




So the officer's behavior was "appropriate up until" he demands she put out the cigarette. By inference, at that point the officer's behavior became inappropriate.

Is this deliberate BS or did you just not bother to read any more of your link than the snippet you goggled and so didn't realize it undercuts your argument?

BTW, other goodies in your link:

Quote:

Encinia has been placed on administrative leave for violating department procedures and Department of Public Safety courtesy policy, officials said.



So clearly the officer did in fact violate department policy despite the out-of-context quotes you posted.


Quote:

Seth Stoughton, a University of South Carolina law professor and former Florida police officer, said Enicinia missed several opportunities to de-escalate tension and should have explained in calmer tones what he was doing and why.



Like I said...


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 4 hours, 10 minutes
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Diploid]
    #21996847 - 07/25/15 07:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

There's no doubt that the "experts" have major issues in regards how the officer conducted himself that day, but at the same time it appears he did have the legal right to order her out of the car.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: qman] * 1
    #21996855 - 07/25/15 07:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The idea that there can be only one asshole in a confrontation is deeply flawed


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InvisiblecApTaInCrAp
Delightfullyexcellent
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Registered: 03/19/04
Posts: 2,613
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Diploid]
    #21996907 - 07/25/15 07:31 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

They were both in the wrong imo.  Gahd damn she's obnoxious..I don't want to say it but typical behavior..


--------------------
"...Terrific, im glad we've had this time to discuss..im outro, call me if you wanna blaze one up.."



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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: qman]
    #21996959 - 07/25/15 07:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

There's no doubt that the "experts" have major issues in regards how the officer conducted himself that day

There is also no doubt that he violated department policy and is currently suspended for those violations. From your link:

Quote:

Encinia has been placed on administrative leave for violating department procedures and Department of Public Safety courtesy policy, officials said.




The cop was in the wrong. Your own link substantiates it.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSheekle
FREE BURKE
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Registered: 01/11/10
Posts: 53,153
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Diploid] * 1
    #21997300 - 07/25/15 09:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

dont listen to pris on cop-related arguments, he has like severe PTSD that he projects as defending cops 100% always no matter what and says cigs r super dangerous and worth murdering people over its all a hoax his perception is ruined


--------------------
"Ur cat died because he hated u" - Koods
"I hope JSB kicks your ass one day." - Vandago
"you are the biggest 'internet guy' I have ever come across"- Jokeshopbeard
"The more I see you post the more I realize you're just this fuckin tie dye loser who trolls the Shroomery 24/7." - Herbologist
"Sheekle you cannot vile the dice of bullshit you have posted on this forum over the years, I like databases" - thelastoneleft
"or maybe i just come from a blood line of superior intelligence" - trees

R.I.P Kelsy, ?/?/?? - 6/11/16


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Invisiblechopstick
nobody
Male


Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,081
Loc: Chin's Wok
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Sheekle] * 1
    #21997508 - 07/25/15 10:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Cop + Power Trip + Anger = Fatality for normal citizens

It's a very simple formula


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: chopstick]
    #21998608 - 07/26/15 07:03 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The cop didn't contribute to her death.  She whacked herself.


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Onlinekoods
Ribbit
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Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,061
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: zappaisgod] * 1
    #21998618 - 07/26/15 07:07 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

She should not have been arrested, or put in jail. Showing a cop attitude is not a crime. Arresting someone without probable cause for an actual crime is against the law. The cop should be prosecuted for civil rights violations, and the entire police force in that town should be investigated.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
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Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21998630 - 07/26/15 07:10 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

qman said:
She was already suicidal and stupidly used the "I know my rights" nonsense to get herself in jail in the first place, totally ignorant person.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/23/dashboard-video-shows-how-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-escalated/







This scares me though, I knew this girl who lived by my house, would cut herself for stress relief, now, say she goes into jail and the cops kill her, then the police can say "the person was suicidal" and get away with murder....

-E. Borodin





so you believe that actual suicides are murder by the cops




NO!

That has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

I'm saying just because she had cuts on her arm doesn't mean she killed herself. I was saying WHAT IF a Pearson with similar scars was killed by police, and the police could simply say "we didn't do it the person was suicidal"

The fact that she tried to kill herself in the past shouldn't be important here, it should be considered yes, but not basis for determining cause of death.

I already said, yes, this was a legitimate suicide, but then presented a HYPOTHETICAL situation in which someone who cuts for stress release was murdered by police, should the police be able to use those scars as evidence that they did not kill the subject?

-E. Borodin


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: koods]
    #21998639 - 07/26/15 07:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah she should have.  I don't care if the cop is an asshole, do what he says.  If he tells you to get out of the car get out of the car.  And don't whack him.

The attitude of a lot you children here is going to get you in more trouble than you might otherwise encounter.  The time to express your rights is in court, not on the street.


--------------------


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Invisiblevinsue
Grand Old Fart
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Registered: 02/17/04
Posts: 17,953
Loc: The Garden State(NJ) Flag
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21998659 - 07/26/15 07:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Aside from the :hang: thang,
I must have missed the part where she "assaulted an officer":confused:
which is what she was arrested for.:foreheadslap:

Also, did he even give her the ticket for "improper lane change"?
... 'cause I think she beat that one.:smirk:


:angrycop: smh...:peace:


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
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Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: qman]
    #21998660 - 07/26/15 07:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

qman said:
She was already suicidal and stupidly used the "I know my rights" nonsense to get herself in jail in the first place, totally ignorant person.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/23/dashboard-video-shows-how-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-escalated/







This scares me though, I knew this girl who lived by my house, would cut herself for stress relief, now, say she goes into jail and the cops kill her, then the police can say "the person was suicidal" and get away with murder....

-E. Borodin




Yeah, cops are into killing people in a jail cell.  :flowstone:  This case has already been ruled a suicide.




So even if this case was a suicide, I'm glad someone actually investigated it, and if investigations would happen more often you would understand my opinion.

Cops get into struggles and kill inmates every day, just like they choke and shoot people to death in struggles on the street every day, the difference is in jail you have no voice, if the cops kill you in a struggle and the cops cover it up, that's that, where as on the street cell phones and witnesses bring the cops to justice.

Remember the cop who shot the guy in the back then planted a weapon on him? What makes you think this doesn't happen behind bars, away from the public eye?



-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
deep psychedelic
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Registered: 10/27/14
Posts: 1,965
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: vinsue]
    #21998668 - 07/26/15 07:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

vinsue said:
Aside from the :hang: thang,
I must have missed the part where she "assaulted an officer":confused:
which is what she was arrested for.:foreheadslap:

Also, did he even give her the ticket for "improper lane change"?
... 'cause I think she beat that one.:smirk:


:angrycop: smh...:peace:




Why would a person kill themselves over a minor traffic charge? She would have been out in a few days regardless...

Even if it was officially ruled a suicide, it's a questionable case.

-E. Borodin


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Invisiblechopstick
nobody
Male


Registered: 07/26/08
Posts: 5,081
Loc: Chin's Wok
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: zappaisgod]
    #21998728 - 07/26/15 07:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:


The attitude of a lot you children here is going to get you in more trouble than you might otherwise encounter.  The time to express your rights is in court, not on the street.




The idea that I should hand over all my rights to some dolt wearing a blue uniform like it's fucking magical is stupid, especially if all it takes is for him to be in a bad mood to end up dead - like Sandra Bland.

They murdered this woman and now they are trying to cover it up. Suicide my ass.


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InvisibleAsante
Mage
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Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,797
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Lived_1978-2043]
    #21998762 - 07/26/15 07:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Lived_1978-2043 said:
Local and state police seem more abusive of power than federal police.

We should have abolished local and state gov and grew as a federal gov alone nation.





Au contraire. Smaller federal government, bigger state governments.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here


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Invisibleabductee
Time
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Registered: 05/07/15
Posts: 2,224
Loc: Canada
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21998767 - 07/26/15 07:59 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If you wanted you could arrange a slip knot that would cinch your hands down by kicking your legs out. Bag over head, duct tape around your neck..kick legs out.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21998777 - 07/26/15 08:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

it's a questionable case.

I don't think it's that questionable. One of the things the medical examiner looks for is signs of a defensive struggle that would be present if she was accosted. There are certain classical injuries that almost always happen when someone is physically attacked, and pathologists know how to look for them. None were found on this woman which strongly suggests suicide.

While I agree it does seem weird that someone who just landed a new job would take her life, I also know that people with mental issues do not always act in expected or rational ways.

It's not hard to believe that someone who is already mentally unstable would be pushed past breaking by the trauma of being arrested without cause by an asshole and locked in a cage with real criminals for three days.

There is no reason to doubt the official cause of death issued by the medical examiner and I'm pretty sure the second autopsy requested by the family will concur with the first: this was a suicide.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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