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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21993765 - 07/25/15 05:38 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
I think in general a person usually has to sedate themselves to kill themselves with a plastic bag because instinct will kick in even as you lose consciousness and you'll probably rip it off.  It's kinda like drowning yourself in a sink.  You'd really have to have nerves of steel in order to go through with it.

I've heard of it done a couple times,in one case in a documentary about euthenasia, but I think they are usually sedated first.

edit- oh nvm she used the bag to hang herself, I was thinking she put it over her head.  Yeah that's possible if the bag's strong enough, but even if she did kill herself there's got to be more to this story.




Oh...I was under the impression she suffocated.

Where did she get this bag?
In the county jail in my state lunch is in paper bags in holding, and the trash cans don't have bags and even have holes in the bottom to prevent people from making booze or body fluid cocktails in them...

Even if this was a legitimate suicide, people die in jail at the hands of police daily...just nobody ever hears about it.

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: qman]
    #21993768 - 07/25/15 05:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
She was already suicidal and stupidly used the "I know my rights" nonsense to get herself in jail in the first place, totally ignorant person.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/23/dashboard-video-shows-how-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-escalated/







This scares me though, I knew this girl who lived by my house, would cut herself for stress relief, now, say she goes into jail and the cops kill her, then the police can say "the person was suicidal" and get away with murder....

-E. Borodin


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OfflineCoincidentiaoppositorum
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Confucian]
    #21993787 - 07/25/15 05:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:
Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/21/us/texas-sandra-bland-jail-death-explain/

Have you ever seen a suicide in which a person used a plastic bag to asphyxiate themselves?

I'm no expert on murders or suicides, so I don't know if this is something that happens very often, but to me it s

Seems to be a difficult way to commit suicide.

Every time I've been in county jail they never gave us plastic bags for anything, ever, but that may just be my state.




1) The officer knows the entire ordeal where he basically slams a woman for no reason was all caught on tape. He would have been on his best behavior so as not to get into more trouble than he already was.

2) Why would a police officer murder an inmate and try to cover it up. That's insane.

3) The girl was a mean angry suicidal psycho with an attitude.

4) When I was in county jail the guys there would ask for a garbage bag and the deps would provide. They had some food concoction consisting of pickles, cheese, and I can't remember it was so long ago but it was like 5 or 6 different things...They mixed it in the bag and it was actually delicious.


5) See #2





In this case it may have been a legitimate suicide...

But the cops will get into struggles and kill inmates all the time, then they cover it up or it looks bad...

The food your talking about is called a "spread" it's ramen noodles, flaming hot cheetos, Doritos chips, beef jerky, etc..mixed in a bag with warm or hot water adds and it's rolled in a burrito shape...

You only get bags like that in minimum in my state, and all intakes are considered max until they determine your cell score and place you...

... plus when they won't give you real plastic bags you can make spreads in Doritos bags.

Others states may be different though...

-E. Borodin


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Invisiblevinsue
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Confucian]
    #21993817 - 07/25/15 06:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Confucian said:... The officer knows the entire ordeal where he basically slams a woman for no reason was all caught on tape...



Um, "allegedly failing to use a turn signal" is serious biz in Texas, especially if you're a ............... :smirk:
That cop sure was angry though... :supercrankey:

Also, cops usually told me to stay in the car any time I've been pulled over for a moving violation...:shrug:
:cop2: . . . :peace:


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:


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Onlineqman
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21994555 - 07/25/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

qman said:
She was already suicidal and stupidly used the "I know my rights" nonsense to get herself in jail in the first place, totally ignorant person.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/23/dashboard-video-shows-how-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-escalated/







This scares me though, I knew this girl who lived by my house, would cut herself for stress relief, now, say she goes into jail and the cops kill her, then the police can say "the person was suicidal" and get away with murder....

-E. Borodin




Yeah, cops are into killing people in a jail cell.  :flowstone:  This case has already been ruled a suicide.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Coincidentiaoppositorum]
    #21994618 - 07/25/15 10:37 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Coincidentiaoppositorum said:
Quote:

qman said:
She was already suicidal and stupidly used the "I know my rights" nonsense to get herself in jail in the first place, totally ignorant person.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/23/dashboard-video-shows-how-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-escalated/







This scares me though, I knew this girl who lived by my house, would cut herself for stress relief, now, say she goes into jail and the cops kill her, then the police can say "the person was suicidal" and get away with murder....

-E. Borodin





so you believe that actual suicides are murder by the cops


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: vinsue]
    #21994627 - 07/25/15 10:40 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

vinsue said:
Quote:

Confucian said:... The officer knows the entire ordeal where he basically slams a woman for no reason was all caught on tape...



Um, "allegedly failing to use a turn signal" is serious biz in Texas, especially if you're a ............... :smirk:
That cop sure was angry though... :supercrankey:

Also, cops usually told me to stay in the car any time I've been pulled over for a moving violation...:shrug:
:cop2: . . . :peace:





good to see you can still twist the actual facts

cop was giving out warnings and the bitch got lippy and combative over a few
simple requests such as 'could you put your cigarette out', yeah, that's so
abusive and angry. cop didnt ask her to get out until she decided to flex  some
rights that she didnt have


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #21994720 - 07/25/15 11:06 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think in general a person usually has to sedate themselves to kill themselves with a plastic bag because instinct will kick in even as you lose consciousness and you'll probably rip it off.

She didn't try to asphyxiate herself with the bag. She hanged herself with it.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblevinsue
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Prisoner#1] * 2
    #21994937 - 07/25/15 12:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

:Prisoner1: said;... cop didnt ask her to get out until she decided to flex  some
rights that she didnt have...


lol...Which rights?
:smoker: during a routine racial profiling:smirk: traffic stop for improper lane change?

Cops have never asked me to put out my cigarette during a traffic stop,
unless it was a dui checkpoint...

http://www.texasstandard.org/shows/current/10-things-about-the-sandra-bland-traffic-stop-every-texan-should-know/
I'll post it so no one has to ckicky...
Quote:

Questions, in the wake of the video: What are the rules? Not policies or politeness –  specifically, what are your rights when you’re pulled over by police?

Jim Harrington, director of the Texas Civil Rights Project, speaks with Texas Standard about the footage of the arrest, point-by-point. Here’s a transcript of the conversation, edited for brevity and clarity:

The trooper asks, “You mind putting out your cigarette please?” And Ms. Bland says, “Well, I’m in my car – why do I have to put out my cigarette?” Does she have to put out her cigarette?

“No, she doesn’t
have to put out her cigarette. And you wonder why the officer is even bothering with that.
This is part of his escalation of the whole event that unfolded, unfortunately.

The next part: “Step out of the car.” Ms. Bland says, “You do not have the right.” He interrupts – “I do have the right, step out of the car or I will remove you.” Does he have the right, first, to order her to step out of the car, and second, to actually physically remove her from the car?

He does not have the right to say get out of the car. He has to express some reason. ‘I need to search your car,’ or, whatever; he needs to give a reason. He can’t just say ‘get out of the car’ for a traffic offense.”

It’s one thing to say he has a reason; it’s another to say he has to give a reason. He may have had probable cause, or thought he had it, we don’t know. Does he have to state it?

“He doesn’t have to state probable cause; he has to state some reason … And that’s part of the training that he should have had about how to de-escalate a situation. She’s clearly upset about what happened, particularly – as we know later on – that she moved over because he was tailing her. … He should be working on de-escalation. That’s the key. ”

Ms. Bland says, I refuse to talk to you other than to identify myself.” Is she right or wrong?

“She’s right. Unfortunately, officers don’t like it when you know the law.
In this case, even if you are right, you are still in danger. And that’s what we see unfolding here.”

The trooper says, “I am giving you a lawful order.” Now, is the is the lawful order to extinguish the cigarette, or to get out of the car, or neither?

“You can’t tell why. Certainly, telling her to put out the cig was not a lawful order. Just saying ‘Get out of the car,’ in and of itself, without an explanation, is not lawful. And you see him say that throughout the video without ever saying why [or] what’s going on here. It’s clear to me that he’s trying to assert authority that he probably does not have under the law, and he’s escalating the situation because he is upset. [He] doesn’t exercise the training that he needs to be exercising to de-escalate this situation.”

“I’m gonna yank you out of here,” is what the trooper says. Can he physically “yank” her out of her vehicle?

“He can’t do that either, unless she’s posing a threat to his welfare and safety. What he should have done was just wait for backup
, if he couldn’t de-escalate it himself. But you don’t just pull somebody out of the car, and point that taser in her face. What if it had gone off? She’d have permanent brain damage.”

She says, “Dont touch me, I’m not under arrest.” Trooper says, “You are under arrest. She says, “Under arrest for what?” He then turns to his shoulder mounted radio, and asks for another unit. Does he have an obligation as a law enforcement officer to tell her why she is under arrest?

“Yes. He needs to – it’s not clear to her what’s going on. He needs to tell her, ‘You’re under arrest because …,’ but you can’t really tell her that. Because you can’t tell from the video that there’s any reason to have her under arrest.

She asserts her right to record this with her cell phone. That’s a right that has been clearly established. Is that true?

“She has a right to do that. But that’s another example where the officer perceives this as a challenge to his authority – and it further escalates the whole scenario.”

When he says “get out of the car, or I will light you up,” he is apparently referring to the use of a taser. Is that a legitimate threat? Is that something that’s okay for officers to do in that situation?

“No – here’s the situation where he is clearly violating her constitutional rights. This is excessive force on the part of the officer – to take that taser and point it in her face and say, ‘I’m going to harm you.’ Taser is the last recourse to a gun. And if he can’t get her out, he can’t de-escalate it, he’s got to wait for another officer to come and talk through this.”

Right now, the trooper has been placed on administrative duty. He’s not on leave, he’s still working for DPS. It’s our understanding that there is a violation of policy here – he should not have allowed it to escalate.

We are talking about a certain level of discretion that the state apparently entrusts with its troopers. Should officers have that much discretion?





Kids, let this be a lesson. Use your directional indicators
and don't smoke during traffic stops.:paranoid:
Good thing she wasn't vaping. Who knows what :angryguy: would do.

:kkk: . . . :peace:


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: vinsue]
    #21995112 - 07/25/15 12:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

vinsue said:
Quote:

:Prisoner1: said;... cop didnt ask her to get out until she decided to flex  some
rights that she didnt have...


lol...Which rights?
:smoker: during a routine racial profiling:smirk: traffic stop for improper lane change?

Cops have never asked me to put out my cigarette during a traffic stop,
unless it was a dui checkpoint...




so then cops have asked you to put your cigarette out



Quote:

The trooper asks, “You mind putting out your cigarette please?” And Ms. Bland says, “Well, I’m in my car – why do I have to put out my cigarette?” Does she have to put out her cigarette?

“No, she doesn’t
have to put out her cigarette. And you wonder why the officer is even bothering with that.






you know, he is right, she didnt have to put the cigarette out, just like all
those dumbasses that get shot by the cops dont have to put down their weapons
or dont have to stop resisting arrest or dont have to stop trying to kill other
people... but hey, it's that same kind of retarded behavior that ends with them
getting killed

now, once more. the cop made a simple request, it can be seen as a point of
safety since she already appeared to be in an agitated mood because a cop
pulled her over *gasp, must be racial profiling since blacks never use turn
signals*, now the right she didnt have was to tell the cop to fuck off when he
said 'step out of the vehicle'


imagine how things would have gone if this woman had:

1. used a turn signal
2. not decided to be a cut to the cop
3. simply put her cigarette out
4. not argued and fought with the cop about getting out of the car


yes, then she could have gone home and hanged herself in private and no one
would fucking care because she was just a different statistic at that point


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21995212 - 07/25/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

imagine how things would have gone if this woman had:

1. used a turn signal
2. not decided to be a cut to the cop
3. simply put her cigarette out
4. not argued and fought with the cop about getting out of the car


I don't agree with you here at all.

The ONLY thing this woman did that is arguably illegal and therefore actionable by the cop is not signalling. The rest is just her bad attitude. Bad attitude is not against the law in the United States. On the contrary: it is protected by the constitution. If this were not the case, our justice system would be clogged with arrogant police officers charged with attitude crimes.

The only point here worth considering, IMO, is that the woman was a civilian entitled by the constitution to exhibit bad attitude if she damn well felt like it, and the cop is a professional sworn officer on the public payroll whose behavior MUST be held to the higher standard that comes with the job.

If a cop doesn't have the emotional maturity to deescalate threats to his ego by law-abiding citizens, he needs to grow up or find another job.

now, once more. the cop made a simple request, it can be seen as a point of
safety


Total bullshit. A woman in a car with a lit cigarette is zero threat to an armed police officer standing outside and slightly behind her driver window.

Besides, I expect a seasoned police officer to understand that when people get nervous as during a confrontation with police, they often reach for a cigarette to cope. This is normal, natural, and most importantly, LEGAL.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Diploid]
    #21995281 - 07/25/15 01:30 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

Diploid said:
imagine how things would have gone if this woman had:

1. used a turn signal
2. not decided to be a cut to the cop
3. simply put her cigarette out
4. not argued and fought with the cop about getting out of the car





I don't agree with you here at all.

The ONLY thing this woman did that is arguably illegal and therefore actionable by the cop is not signalling. The rest is just her bad attitude. Bad attitude is not against the law in the United States. On the contrary: it is protected by the constitution. If this were not the case, our justice system would be clogged with arrogant police officers charged with attitude crimes.




it doesnt matter if you agree with me or not, these are all factors that
initiated the police encounter and escalated it to the point of her arrest

the cop asking her to put her cigarette out is in fact an issue of concern for
the officer who saw that she was agitated more than would be normal for most
minor traffic stops. he asked about her state of mind which evidences this and
her response gave him reason to suspect she could snap at any moment and flick
the cigarette at him, hence it is an issue of the cop's safety

the cop did not kill this woman, she killed her self, something she had
apparently attempted to do a few months before as well

Quote:

The only point here worth considering, IMO, is that the woman was a civilian entitled by the constitution to exhibit bad attitude if she damn well felt like it, and the cop is a professional sworn officer on the public payroll whose behavior MUST be held to the higher standard that comes with the job.




so tell us how this cop was not within his rights to ask her to step out of the
car or to ask her to extinguish her cigarette. sure, she had the right to have
a bad attitude but what the cop did was certainly within his rights as a cop



Quote:

now, once more. the cop made a simple request, it can be seen as a point of
safety


Total bullshit. A woman in a car with a lit cigarette is zero threat to an armed police officer standing outside and slightly behind her driver window.




one flick is all it takes to put the officer in danger, he could step into
traffic to try and avoid being burned or he could opt to be burned, I can tell
you for a fact that cigarettes can be used as weapons, I've used them and I've
had them used against me, catching one in the eye sucks pretty bad


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OfflineLove_spirit
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Diploid]
    #21995305 - 07/25/15 01:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The law is very simple. The officer clearly told her I am ORDERING you to step out of the car. When someone enters the realm of resisting it puts the cop in a very precarious position. You don't want to give this person too much time to sit there and think about what they are going to do next. He doesn't know what weapons she might have in there. As for people who claims racism is present,
where is your proof? Was he yelling white power while he cuffed her? If so I didn't hear it.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #21995467 - 07/25/15 02:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

it doesnt matter if you agree with me or not, these are all factors that
initiated the police encounter and escalated it to the point of her arrest


That's true. It's also irrelevant because police officers MUST tolerate being irritated by otherwise law-abiding citizens. They are empowered and given guns for fuck's sake. If we're going to allow them to break their department's codified policies and let emotions dictate their professional behavior because they "got irritated" by some bad attitude, then we have lost the rule of law.

the cop asking her to put her cigarette out is in fact an issue of concern for
the officer who saw that she was agitated more than would be normal for most


All the more reason why an emotionally-mature cop would leave her alone to legally smoke her calming cigarette INSIDE HER CAR where she was a threat to no one. The physical confrontation that comes with forcibly removing her from the car is a FAR greater risk to the cop than some hypothetical risk of her flicking a cigarette out her window.

This is beyond obvious to me.

flick the cigarette at him

/facepalm

A woman who has made no aggressive moves, answered every question, and complied with every lawful order given so far is no threat to an armed police officer with backup on the way and standing at an oblique angle from the suspect's driver window as police are trained to do to minimize exactly the risk you mention.

You are reaching. Were I to extend your argument, giving the woman a pen to sign a citation is grounds for attacking her with a tazer because she might take his eye out with that pen. Hell, she might also throw her cell phone at him and put him in the hospital. Maybe she could scratch him when he gets close. Get real man. Your argument that this cop was at any realistic risk of harm doesn't hold water because it can be used to justify everything. And in the end, it was ironically the cop who attacked the woman, not the other way around.

Even *IF* we grant your premiss that the woman could possibly have injured the cop with her cigarette from inside her car, he was duty-bound to give her a reason for demanding she put out the cigarette or get out of the car. He didn't give a reason (like safety) which is apparently required by law (see vinsue's clicky). That's what escalated the encounter.

The onus of deescalating is on him as the trained professional wielding a weapon, not the nervous and confused citizen trying to calm down with a cigarette. This whole thing was an ego-driven attack by a bully with too much testosterone and too little emotional maturity to be given a gun and empowered to enforce laws.

Your argument is clearly not based in the law or codified police department policy.

so tell us how this cop was not within his rights to ask her to step out of the
car or to ask her to extinguish her cigarette.


He would have been in the right by law and codified policy had he given her a reason for the demand. That would have rendered his arbitrary command from bully-noise into a lawful order, and the cop should have known better. He didn't give a reason because that would have required his ego to bend a little, but he was pissed off and acting on emotion, not on his training, policy, or the law.

There is no place for emotionally immature people in law enforcement. It's the cause of all our troubles.

the cop did not kill this woman, she killed her self

On this we agree. But that is a different topic than the long-running epidemic of police bullying and emotional policing that cell phone cameras have finally been exposing.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Love_spirit] * 1
    #21995503 - 07/25/15 02:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

The law is very simple.

Yes it is, and the cop broke it.

The officer clearly told her I am ORDERING you to step out of the car.

This is illegal unless he gives a reason per visnue's clicky. It's also against his department's policies. Again, see visnue's clicky. He even quoted it for the lazy. Here is the paraphrased beef again so you don't have to go and actually read the thread or anything.

We are supposed to be a nation of laws, not a nation of extrajudicial bullying by enforcers butthurt over their bruised egos.

Quote:

Cop says: "You mind putting out your cigarette please?" And Ms. Bland says, "Well, I’m in my car – why do I have to put out my cigarette?"

Question: Does she have to put out her cigarette?

Answer: No, she doesn’t have to put out her cigarette. And you wonder why the officer is even bothering with that. This is part of his escalation of the whole event that unfolded, unfortunately.

-----

Question: Does he have the right, first, to order her to step out of the car, and second, to actually physically remove her from the car?

Answer: He does not have the right to say get out of the car. He has to express some reason. ‘I need to search your car,’ or, whatever; he needs to give a reason. He can’t just say ‘get out of the car’ for a traffic offense.

University of Texas




--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Onlineqman
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Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Diploid]
    #21996231 - 07/25/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
The law is very simple.

Yes it is, and the cop broke it.

The officer clearly told her I am ORDERING you to step out of the car.

This is illegal unless he gives a reason per visnue's clicky. It's also against his department's policies. Again, see visnue's clicky. He even quoted it for the lazy. Here is the paraphrased beef again so you don't have to go and actually read the thread or anything.

We are supposed to be a nation of laws, not a nation of extrajudicial bullying by enforces butthurt over their bruised egos.

Quote:

Cop says: "You mind putting out your cigarette please?" And Ms. Bland says, "Well, I’m in my car – why do I have to put out my cigarette?"

Question: Does she have to put out her cigarette?

Answer: No, she doesn’t have to put out her cigarette. And you wonder why the officer is even bothering with that. This is part of his escalation of the whole event that unfolded, unfortunately.

-----

Question: Does he have the right, first, to order her to step out of the car, and second, to actually physically remove her from the car?

Answer: He does not have the right to say get out of the car. He has to express some reason. ‘I need to search your car,’ or, whatever; he needs to give a reason. He can’t just say ‘get out of the car’ for a traffic offense.

Clicky







"He has to express some reason" 

He doesn't have to explain in perfect detail at that very moment, sometimes the circumstances doesn't allow for it, so it's still in his legal right.

It wasn't about the traffic offense at that point, the situation escalated beyond that ticket.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: qman] * 1
    #21996321 - 07/25/15 05:17 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

He doesn't have to explain

You are wrong. He has to explain SOMETHING and visnue has posted credible substantiation for this.

sometimes the circumstances doesn't allow for it

The circumstances were that she was strapped into her seat belt and no imminent threat that would justify not giving a reason.

The only reason the cop did not state why she must get out of the car is because he had no basis to issue that command under color of law. In other words, those were not lawful orders. And he knew this but by that time his primitive alpha-male brain had taken over. He was not about to lose face. Humiliation is not an option for an alpha-male.

This is exactly the kind of mentality we DO NOT need enforcing laws, yet it's exactly the mentality the profession's culture nurtures and attracts.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisibledeucedbi9
Stranger

Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 4,594
Loc: UK
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: vinsue] * 1
    #21996560 - 07/25/15 06:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

vinsue said:

Good thing she wasn't vaping. Who knows what :angryguy: would do.

:kkk: . . . :peace:







--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: deucedbi9]
    #21996587 - 07/25/15 06:18 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

She was suicidal and hung herself in prison. It wasn't the first time she tried to kill herself.  From what I read her forearms were pretty scarred.


--------------------


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Onlineqman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 7 minutes, 24 seconds
Re: police murdering citizens [Re: Diploid]
    #21996653 - 07/25/15 06:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
He doesn't have to explain

You are wrong. He has to explain SOMETHING and visnue has posted credible substantiation for this.

sometimes the circumstances doesn't allow for it

The circumstances were that she was strapped into her seat belt and no imminent threat that would justify not giving a reason.

The only reason the cop did not state why she must get out of the car is because he had no basis to issue that command under color of law. In other words, those were not lawful orders. And he knew this but by that time his primitive alpha-male brain had taken over. He was not about to lose face. Humiliation is not an option for an alpha-male.

This is exactly the kind of mentality we DO NOT need enforcing laws, yet it's exactly the mentality the profession's culture nurtures and attracts.






The experts disagree-  http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-sandra-bland-arrest-experts-20150722-story.html#page=2

From a law professor- "He certainly has the legal authority to get her to step out of the car"

From a attorney- "Under Supreme Court doctrine he has the right to tell her to step out of the car"

"officers legally DON'T have to explain why they want you to get out of a vehicle"


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