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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 *DELETED* 1
#21981481 - 07/22/15 06:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Post deleted by insanemikeReason for deletion: None
Edited by insanemike (08/01/15 07:06 AM)
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Syntheticwords
Victus


Registered: 08/13/11
Posts: 375
Last seen: 6 years, 9 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#21981928 - 07/22/15 08:33 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Just gonna leave this right here...
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Buck513
Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Syntheticwords]
#21982069 - 07/22/15 09:13 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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azur
God of Fuck



Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#21982180 - 07/22/15 09:43 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sorry i never got back to you on this. Life is busy. Lookin good though
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invitro

Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 2,529
Last seen: 1 month, 20 days
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: azur]
#21982558 - 07/22/15 11:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sksoul
Pan handler



Registered: 10/31/14
Posts: 397
Loc: Far East
Last seen: 3 years, 6 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: invitro]
#21983031 - 07/23/15 02:49 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- Like all great travellers, I have seen more than I remember, and remember more than I have seen.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: azur]
#21983067 - 07/23/15 03:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: Sorry i never got back to you on this. Life is busy. Lookin good though
It's all good, Azur. I completely understand.
I tried eye balling a flat, smooth and level surface and I still don't have and eye for it. The finishing trowel and torpedo level definitely made your specifications a possibility for me.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#21983225 - 07/23/15 06:00 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Excited to see what comes of this
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21983241 - 07/23/15 06:13 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Me too I have spent the past two weeks crunching numbers, analyzing data and preparing to draw up some charts. Once I have concrete parameters to plug in, I will then be able to graph air flow trends and prove that what I'm doing is completely quantifiable. I don't have a computer so I have to do everything by hand. It will definitely take longer to do it this way but will help fill the time I spend waiting on spawn to grow and for tubs to do there thing.
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Yerow
Stranger



Registered: 09/22/14
Posts: 1,206
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#21983563 - 07/23/15 08:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#21984277 - 07/23/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Interested to see how this one turns out as, as well. Mike, you are a perfectionist.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: hamloaf]
#21984568 - 07/23/15 12:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said: Interested to see how this one turns out as, as well. Mike, you are a perfectionist.
I'm really glad others are interested in my work. My perfectionism is a curse but I am fully aware of it and I embrace it.
Edited by insanemike (07/23/15 12:42 PM)
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Dhearic


Registered: 01/24/14
Posts: 846
Loc: Neverland
Last seen: 9 months, 3 days
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#21984609 - 07/23/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Gonna be looking in on this. Seems to be quite the project, good luck brother!
--------------------
Credit where credit is due.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Dhearic]
#21984622 - 07/23/15 12:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks. I definitely have my work cut out for me.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Syntheticwords]
#21984810 - 07/23/15 01:23 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Syntheticwords said: Just gonna leave this right here... 
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#21984822 - 07/23/15 01:25 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
taGyo said:
Quote:
Syntheticwords said: Just gonna leave this right here... 
Damn, brotha. Is this what it takes to get you out of the woodwork?
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#21984826 - 07/23/15 01:26 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
insanemike said:
Quote:
taGyo said:
Quote:
Syntheticwords said: Just gonna leave this right here... 
Damn, brotha. Is this what it takes to get you out of the woodwork?
Been popping into threads now and then but an experiment to increase the efficiency of my monotub?

Should be up and running in August.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#21984834 - 07/23/15 01:27 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well I'm happy to have you come aboard.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#21984840 - 07/23/15 01:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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tripdawg420
low life with no life



Registered: 02/02/09
Posts: 7,071
Loc: illinois
Last seen: 9 hours, 6 minutes
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#21985061 - 07/23/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: tripdawg420]
#21994533 - 07/25/15 10:14 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Update on the tubs. They are moving along nicely. The tub I have on the bottom shelf is about a day behind the tub on the shelf above it. I'm wondering if it's just because it's ms or if it's because the light source is closer to the tub up above? Either way the top tub should be done in another 3-4 days and the bottom tub should be done in 4-5.
Top Tub
 Bottom Tub

I don't plan on introducing fruiting conditions until next Friday anyway. That will give me my 24 hour window to extensively monitor and record conditions. I think I may bump up the recording of data from every 3 hours to every 1 hour for the entire 24 hours. My compisition book ran out of pages the other day, so I need to buy a new one. That last one was exclusively my plugging in of numbers into my system. I can't wait to introduce my other fruiting chamber designs aswell. They will all be built on the same principals and can suit the needs of many types of cultivating methods.
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Buck513
Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#21994556 - 07/25/15 10:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Buck513]
#21994574 - 07/25/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#21994616 - 07/25/15 10:36 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Direct light can cause bursts of colonization speed. Tmethyl observed this a few years back in his cultures. I myself don't go out of my way to add direct light but it can be a beneficial thing for colonization.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Pastywhyte]
#21994670 - 07/25/15 10:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Interesting. I may have to look further into that. I will put it on my list for future experiments. I will definitely look up Tmethyl's work. Thanks for the lead also, pasty.
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lbot1983
Doctor Ganja


Registered: 06/19/15
Posts: 115
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#21996218 - 07/25/15 04:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Your tubs look nice, like a beautiful christmas morning.
I wonder why a direct light source would speed up colonization. Something more to research.
-------------------- Order me some fucking golf shoes!!!!
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Alkaloids
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine



Registered: 11/15/98
Posts: 743
Loc: pubis mons
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#21997865 - 07/25/15 11:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Those tubs look great insanemike. One thing that got my attention is your spawn mix. Do you have specific reasons to run those ingredients in those ratios? Very interesting work.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Alkaloids]
#21998504 - 07/26/15 05:55 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks for the question. I started this thread solely for the purpose of answering questions about my work so the community can learn and have a good understanding of how and why I want to accomplish such goals as a completely maintenance free grow chamber. Take into account that every system has its pro's and con's but dialing in one room out weigh's dialing in 20 tubs any day of the week especially if you have a job that is as demanding as mine.
Those percentages in the spawn mix aren't exact, they are rounded to the nearest whole %. Those ingredients are just what I had lying around at that time. You will definitely be seeing more diverse mixtures than that in the future.
My plan is to study nutrition and how it effects mushroom health and yield. In order for me to be satisfied with my controls for the nutritional experiments, I need an environment that doesn't need to be dialed in like a typical monotub. As long as my grow room conditions stay within my predetermined range and I use a proven set of genetics, I should only be collecting data that pertains to those nutritional effects.
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paperbackwriter
Edward Lear


Registered: 03/31/14
Posts: 1,888
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Buck513]
#21998537 - 07/26/15 06:25 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Buck513 said:

-------------------- Why should we strive with cynic frown To knock their fairy castles down? ~ Eliza Cook It's rather embarrassing to have given one's entire life to pondering the human predicament and to find that in the end one has little more to say than, 'Try to be a little kinder.' ~Aldous Huxley
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SteveRogers
gandy dancer



Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 3,450
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22003054 - 07/27/15 06:34 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Mike
I hadn't commented, but have been following your project since it was first posted. Just wanted to sincerely thank you for doing this work. A few situations have occurred recently where guys didn't want to listen to the advice being given because there was no analysis. No math. They wanted data. What you are doing here is invaluable not only for the maximization of efficiency, but for incontrovertible evidence of why we do what we do.
Thank you for embarking on this. I will be staying tuned.
-------------------- "General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: SteveRogers]
#22003335 - 07/27/15 08:12 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thank you Steve, for showing your interest. It really does mean a lot to me. Are you or anyone else interested in seeing my data, trends and graphs? I plan on posting pretty pics of course, I'm just not sure if anyone is interestes in any of the technical shit that goes along with it.
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SteveRogers
gandy dancer



Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 3,450
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22003349 - 07/27/15 08:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
insanemike said: Are you or anyone else interested in seeing my data, trends and graphs?
pics are nice, but I for one most certainly want the data. whatever you got, even the failed stuff or speculative prework. I don't want to make more work for you, but it would be beneficial at least for me.
-------------------- "General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22003350 - 07/27/15 08:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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you should post it, Mike. For the lurkers. People are learning from your postings, and if they aren't currently then the information will be there for future genertions and you never know. This could be the next big thing that's just a head of it's time.
Furthermore, is that a "frosting layer" you've got there on those tubs above??
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cArcace-x
YeAh!!



Registered: 10/17/13
Posts: 2,412
Loc: The Simulator
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: hamloaf]
#22003445 - 07/27/15 08:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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--------------------
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: hamloaf] 1
#22003459 - 07/27/15 08:56 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
SteveRogers said:
Quote:
insanemike said: Are you or anyone else interested in seeing my data, trends and graphs?
pics are nice, but I for one most certainly want the data. whatever you got, even the failed stuff or speculative prework. I don't want to make more work for you, but it would be beneficial at least for me.
It really won't be a problem showing the technical side of my work. I just want to make sure I'm not wasting my time doing so. Since now I know atleast one poster is interested then I will go a head and present everything I record.
Quote:
hamloaf said: you should post it, Mike. For the lurkers. People are learning from your postings, and if they aren't currently then the information will be there for future genertions and you never know. This could be the next big thing that's just a head of it's time.
Furthermore, is that a "frosting layer" you've got there on those tubs above??
I really do hope people are interested in the science behind it because if they don't want to do the leg work to replicate my design than I might be spending quite a bit of time designing tubs that fit these cultivators specific grow conditions which are based on region and climate control. I am however, beginning to see that there are growers atleast interested in the outcome. I'm glad they are finally starting to show me that they care. This work may or may not be a head of it's time but I suppose that is for others to decide. I just feel like this has to be done before I can move onto other projects that are on my to do list.
For some reason I can not remember what I read that a frosting layer is. Just to clear up any confusion, I just mixed all the substrate and all my spawn in those turkey roasting bags and then dumped and spread it into the tubs, leaving grain kernels exposed until recovery.
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22003986 - 07/27/15 11:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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any update?
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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MagicInMichigan
Internal conquistador



Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 138
Loc: Michigan,U.S.A.
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Aero]
#22004137 - 07/27/15 11:52 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Very interested in this thread. Did a few cakes to start and moved onto V-Tek with a great improvement on yields and ease over pointless cakes, can't wait to see if this improves mono yields/efficiency altogether. I'll have to wait for some results before doing my third tub, first two were nice for multispore and ass easy. Keep us updated!
-MIM
-------------------- “the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars.” I surround myself with people who aren't afraid to live. They have had what they love most taken from them, be it freedom, love, money, or anything for that matter. When you lose your greatest love you also lose your greatest fear, when that happens you are completely and utterly free.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: MagicInMichigan]
#22004193 - 07/27/15 12:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I could take another pic of each tub when I get home tonight, if you like? But there really isn't anything going on as of right now. The two thermometer/ hygrometers with probes that I ordered last week are being delivered in the mail today. Friday I plan on introducing FAE and monitoring conditions every hour for 24 hours. If there is anything that I should be presenting to you all, that I'm forgetting, please let me know.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22005274 - 07/27/15 04:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Since someone asked so politely earlier today, I have an update for you all. These are the tubs (best side view pics I could get)
Top Tub

Bottom Tub

These are my hygrometers, they just came in the mail today. They are very sensitive. The further apart those probes are, the more the readings begin to differ. This is the closest I could get them and they are still slighly off but that is expected. I will positively account for that in my data entries of course. I will use my acurite digital hygrometer to monitor grow room conditions and the two probe types for the two tubs.
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22005459 - 07/27/15 04:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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they be ready soon
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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SteveRogers
gandy dancer



Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 3,450
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Aero]
#22005526 - 07/27/15 05:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Mike this thread makes me optimistic for the future of this place everytime I look at it.
-------------------- "General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Aero]
#22005538 - 07/27/15 05:03 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes. I hope those tubs explode like Pompeii. I may not have had any rhizo's on agar or many on grain but I will tell you what Aero, there are some really nice and plentiful rhizo's in those tubs. I will attempt to get a few nice pics of them on friday evening when I open them up for the first and last time, until harvest.
Edited by insanemike (07/27/15 05:05 PM)
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Aero]
#22005540 - 07/27/15 05:04 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Double post
Edited by insanemike (07/27/15 05:04 PM)
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Aero
Orea


Registered: 11/01/13
Posts: 2,253
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22005550 - 07/27/15 05:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
insanemike said: Yes. I hope those tubs explode like Pompeii. I may not have had any rhizo's on agar or many on grain but I will tell you what Aero, there are some really nice and plentiful rhizo's in those tubs. I will attempt to get a few nice pics of them on friday evening when I open them up for the first and last time until harvest.
dude this culture was always really good for me, never had any problems with it, the trip is pretty mental too
ull see, im gonna need a print for sure
-------------------- SPREAD THE SPORES
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Aero]
#22005558 - 07/27/15 05:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I got you on the print.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22005954 - 07/27/15 06:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lookin' good Mike.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Alkaloids
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine



Registered: 11/15/98
Posts: 743
Loc: pubis mons
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22007648 - 07/28/15 12:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
insanemike said: Thanks for the question. I started this thread solely for the purpose of answering questions about my work so the community can learn and have a good understanding of how and why I want to accomplish such goals as a completely maintenance free grow chamber. Take into account that every system has its pro's and con's but dialing in one room out weigh's dialing in 20 tubs any day of the week especially if you have a job that is as demanding as mine.
Those percentages in the spawn mix aren't exact, they are rounded to the nearest whole %. Those ingredients are just what I had lying around at that time. You will definitely be seeing more diverse mixtures than that in the future.
My plan is to study nutrition and how it effects mushroom health and yield. In order for me to be satisfied with my controls for the nutritional experiments, I need an environment that doesn't need to be dialed in like a typical monotub. As long as my grow room conditions stay within my predetermined range and I use a proven set of genetics, I should only be collecting data that pertains to those nutritional effects.
Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions. I will be following along. The data and methodology you are using are of interest to me as well.
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cArcace-x
YeAh!!



Registered: 10/17/13
Posts: 2,412
Loc: The Simulator
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Alkaloids]
#22008612 - 07/28/15 09:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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gonna read the whole post later when i can sit peacefully, i look interesting but have you considered testing the co2 level using some type of meter like this?: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Autopilot-Desktop-Co2-Monitor-temperature-humidity-lcd-display-24hr-/130789435431?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1e73a86827
--------------------
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: cArcace-x]
#22008692 - 07/28/15 09:47 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes. First, I want to conduct a preliminary test run to give my system hard data that I can feed into it to determine whether I need to increase or decrease hole space. Second, I will be conducting another run with the adjustments and I will monitor the same thing I monitored on the first preliminary test run. My third test will be conducted using a co2 meter so that I can monitor ppm. My 4th test will be conducted using this http://www.amazon.com/Seek-LW-AAA-Thermal-Lightning-Connector/dp/B00NYWABAA so I can visually monitor air flow in and out of the tub.
My 5th run, I plan on being the final test run in which I will use a proven isolate. It will be a 4 tub run with one tub set up like a typical monotub and the other 3 tubs built to spec.
EDIT: I want to find a co2 meter that has a probe like set up that is similar to my new hygrometers.
Edited by insanemike (07/28/15 09:48 AM)
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22008694 - 07/28/15 09:48 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Seriously revolutionary stuff going on here Mike.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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cArcace-x
YeAh!!



Registered: 10/17/13
Posts: 2,412
Loc: The Simulator
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#22008999 - 07/28/15 11:04 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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if you're good with computers and DIY you could build one with an arduino chip http://www.instructables.com/id/Environmental-Mushroom-Control-Arduino-Powered/?ALLSTEPS

indeed, nice stuff here
--------------------
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: cArcace-x]
#22009253 - 07/28/15 12:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I stopped reading when you said you were using a MS culture. Your results mean nothing because you have more than one variable. Use an isolate.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: 36fuckin5]
#22009443 - 07/28/15 12:38 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Maybe you should try reading the entire thread and if you are really feeling confident, go a head and read my journal also. Don't come in here unprepared and half interested and throw crap like that at me. At this point the isolate is not a big concern. When I run my real test it will be with a proven mono culture. I know what I'm doing and have laid out my plans in detail throughout this thread. If you are too lazy to even read my work than I can certainly make the assumption that you will be too lazy to replicate my work when It's finished. So don't waste your time and please do not waste mine.
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike] 1
#22009668 - 07/28/15 01:21 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Do the experiment, then post results. You're wasting all of our time with this crap. This is exactly how bad info gets started. Some half-assed experiment happens to work, but not because of the factor you're trying to test, then we get to read about failures for the next 3 years until it's proven that whatever was done didn't work in the first place.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: 36fuckin5]
#22009674 - 07/28/15 01:24 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said: Do the experiment, then post results. You're wasting all of our time with this crap. This is exactly how bad info gets started. Some half-assed experiment happens to work, but not because of the factor you're trying to test, then we get to read about failures for the next 3 years until it's proven that whatever was done didn't work in the first place.
Why are you coming into his thread and starting drama?
This is what's wrong with this forum. If you have a problem then politely state it, he'll politely respond and then go about your separate ways. Some of us are very interested and if it fails or succeeds we all get to learn.
You're a TC, don't get into a pissing match with someone just trying to change things around.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#22009709 - 07/28/15 01:32 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't want this crap in my thread. If you have a problem with me or my work, please take it up with an administrator. Otherwise, put my thread on hide so you don't have to see it pop up anymore.
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo] 1
#22009788 - 07/28/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
taGyo said: You're a TC, don't get into a pissing match with someone just trying to change things around.
How does that matter? It's not a paid position. I'm not a mod. This isn't my job. There are no special rules to being a TC.
You hippies just can't take people being blunt. And most of you would be laughed out of any real commercial mushroom op.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: 36fuckin5]
#22009840 - 07/28/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said:
Quote:
taGyo said: You're a TC, don't get into a pissing match with someone just trying to change things around.
How does that matter? It's not a paid position. I'm not a mod. This isn't my job. There are no special rules to being a TC.
You hippies just can't take people being blunt. And most of you would be laughed out of any real commercial mushroom op.
Keep it out of the thread as requested by OP.
Thanks!
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: 36fuckin5]
#22009897 - 07/28/15 02:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
36fuckin5 said: Do the experiment, then post results. You're wasting all of our time with this crap. This is exactly how bad info gets started. Some half-assed experiment happens to work, but not because of the factor you're trying to test, then we get to read about failures for the next 3 years until it's proven that whatever was done didn't work in the first place.
Why would he do an experiment yet? He is not finished his observation. He is right that at this point he doesn't need an isolated strain. All he really needs right now is an organism that breathes air, puts out CO2, and generates heat within a bulk substrate. Once he starts to dial in fine detail he will need an isolate or proven clone but at this stage he doesn't even need to be using cubes. Unless I have completely missed the mark on what the intent is at this stage.
Once he starts testing and fine tuning his prototype is when experiments and side by sides come into play. Right now he doesn't even have enough raw data to complete the build of the prototype.
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22009992 - 07/28/15 02:29 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I really really like turtles
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: maddchef]
#22010046 - 07/28/15 02:39 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22010136 - 07/28/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I liek mudkipz.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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MagicInMichigan
Internal conquistador



Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 138
Loc: Michigan,U.S.A.
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#22011711 - 07/28/15 07:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
taGyo said: I liek mudkipz.
Fuck a mudkip, Articuno for the win. Frozen flying badass, ice beam to victory. Lmao, oh to be 10 again.
-------------------- “the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars.” I surround myself with people who aren't afraid to live. They have had what they love most taken from them, be it freedom, love, money, or anything for that matter. When you lose your greatest love you also lose your greatest fear, when that happens you are completely and utterly free.
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Darkhome
•Shaman•N•Training•



Registered: 07/10/15
Posts: 517
Loc: United States
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: MagicInMichigan]
#22012091 - 07/28/15 09:05 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Insanemike...I am a new member, but long time lurker Experimentation is what helps us grow in Mycology... No pun intended. Keep up the good work sir! I'll definitely be checking out your data and results.
-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” ~Terence McKenna~ "NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,079
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22012617 - 07/28/15 10:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Why would he do an experiment yet? He is not finished his observation.
An experiment IS observation. You figure out what you think is gonna happen and why (hypothesis) then do the experiment under CONTROLLED conditions (observation) then see what the results are. If you have multiple variables (new FC and unreliable culture) then you can't conclusively say that your result was from a single variable.
You all suck RR's cock, you think he did his experiments with MS cultures? No, he got his knowledge from running isolates because you can know what to expect with a pure culture from a given set of parameters.
In the acedemic world, when you get done with your controlled experiment, you publish it in a journal so your peers can see what you did and try to repeat it. If you can't repeat it, it doesn't hold up. Simple stuff.
I live in WV. When I went to high school we were 49th in the country for education, right above Alabama. Almost all of you went to better schools than me. Did they not teach you this in your basic science class?
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: 36fuckin5]
#22012736 - 07/28/15 11:41 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Um your wrong. In this context what mike is doing is not an experiment. He never said it was. He doesn't need control yet. Read the post. Once he has some raw data and can build a prototype he can make use of an isolate later. What your missing and wouldn't be if you read the damn OP is that all he is trying to work out right now is air flow and humidity dynamics. He ain't making claims, he is not trying to prove anything yet. He is getting raw numbers to provide a starting point.
BTW I was never on RR's nuts. Last I checked you were the sole holder of that honor.
Edit: if you knew half as much as you think you do you would know that in science an experiment is a test or comparison of an observation. Mike has not made any observation yet, he is attempting to set the stage to make one. He is a long way off from needing control yet.
Edited by Pastywhyte (07/28/15 11:50 PM)
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MagicInMichigan
Internal conquistador



Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 138
Loc: Michigan,U.S.A.
Last seen: 8 years, 2 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: 36fuckin5]
#22012945 - 07/29/15 01:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Doesn't the thread title say it all? "Preliminary test run #1" he made no claims to starting an experiment yet. He's gathering numbers to base his experiment on while growing for a clone basically.
I'm confused by why 36fuckin5 got angry in the first place?
Quote:
36fuckin5 said: Do the experiment, then post results. You're wasting all of our time with this crap. This is exactly how bad info gets started. Some half-assed experiment happens to work, but not because of the factor you're trying to test, then we get to read about failures for the next 3 years until it's proven that whatever was done didn't work in the first place.
I realize you've probably seen A LOT of half assed stupid fucking never going to work experiments from some stoned out 40year olds in their parents basement, however I think the OP is going about it right and you possibly just misinterpreted what this particular thread was?
From what I've read of the OP's project he's gathering a decent amount of data and putting a lot of time into this to possibly improve a Tek(the mono tub)that like all things, has room for improvement. Yes is works great as is, but most everything in this hobby can&will be updated as technology/the times change. We've come along way since PF Tek and we'll go along way from today's monos(hopefully,progress&improvement are the facts of life).
He's not saying monos suck or aren't great, but if he can improve them say 3-5% that would be pretty fucking cool in my book. Good work dude, keep gathering dats for your future experiment during your prelim runs like a sensible person would. I will be following it, as other I'm sure will too. Even if it ends up doing nothing or failing at least you weren't stagnant, doing the same thing over and over never trying to make things better. I wasn't in the hobby but I imagine the people who experimented and came up with today's TEKs did similar things?
-MIM
-------------------- “the only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live, mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time, the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn, burn like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across the stars.” I surround myself with people who aren't afraid to live. They have had what they love most taken from them, be it freedom, love, money, or anything for that matter. When you lose your greatest love you also lose your greatest fear, when that happens you are completely and utterly free.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: MagicInMichigan]
#22014090 - 07/29/15 09:54 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lets just let it die guys lol.
On with the experiment!
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#22014202 - 07/29/15 10:19 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I have to admit, I am getting a little anxious while waiting on Friday to come around. The anticipation hasn't gotten the best of me yet but I have agar transfers for my invitro z strain clone, invitro z strain hyphal knots and AA+ first gen from spores that should keep me busy tonight. Hopefully I can find some work to do tomorrow night also but I may just smoke my self stupid Thursday night instead. That way I will pass out early and get some much needed rest in preperation for my 24 hour data entry. Tub1 is fully colonized and ready to rock. Tub2 is just about there with an area of substrate the size of a 1/4" hole that still needs a day or two to catch up.
When Friday does roll around, should I collect data every 1 hour for 24 hours or every 1/2 hour for 24 hours? Those hygrometers I have are very sensitive and change readings slightly but quite often, so that's why I am asking. I will take a pic of all 3 hygrometers and there readings tonight when I get home that way you can all see the difference between them.
Barring any set backs, the 24 hour data entry period will begin Friday 7/31/15 @ 5:00 pm
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blindingleaf
blue collar underworld


Registered: 07/19/13
Posts: 22,008
Loc: sub-surface unseen
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22014515 - 07/29/15 11:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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if ur collecting data on environment, i don't think MS or isolate would really matter. as long as the substrate depth and field capacity are as close as possible from trial to trial, u should be good.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: blindingleaf]
#22014770 - 07/29/15 12:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes. Everything will be kept the same from trial to trial. I plan on using an isolate for the final test run and then for replicate runs there after.
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maddchef
Vaginal escape artist



Registered: 09/04/09
Posts: 5,602
Loc: Your mom's vag
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22014915 - 07/29/15 12:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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But...but...but...
Yeah good work so far. Don't forget to dumb down the results kindergarten style for the rest of us after you crunch numbers.
Since you seem to be the one capable of doing so I'd love to see the air flow and thermal dynamics of a tub with polyfill in it.
I've had a very long argument with Frank about airflow in a monotub.
-------------------- In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king. All mushrooms are edible, but some only once..... Easier than cakes I do science and shit.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: maddchef]
#22018889 - 07/30/15 09:12 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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hi mike  been a while... ive been away camping 
wow you have moved on...
glad too see all the progress and support from the community 
your a real asset to the community and also a perfectionist i must say!
when your tests are done i want to see you apply that knowledge to make a FC for pans!!
anyway im going read over what you been up to ...
--------------------
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Darkhome
•Shaman•N•Training•



Registered: 07/10/15
Posts: 517
Loc: United States
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22019315 - 07/30/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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 You have definitely peaked my interest sir!
-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” ~Terence McKenna~ "NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Darkhome]
#22019351 - 07/30/15 11:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would like to thank you all for your support, it is much appreciated. Tonight, I plan on logging and posting room conditions using all 3 hygrometers so that you all can have a clear understanding of the differences between them. I will log them every half hour and will post before bed time. Saturday evening I will post all data from my 24 hour observation. I know this is a diverse community and we don't all use the same units of meaaurement. I can and will post temperature readings in celcius and fahrenheiht if anyone is intersted. If not, I will just post them in fahrenheiht.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22019776 - 07/30/15 01:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i read the martian by andy weir last week....
and i keep getting visions of you experimenting but alone on mars. lol
your dialogue, experiments and such just reminds me of mark watney!
was a great read by the way, i would recommend to anyone:)
EDIT:
Quote:
I can and will post temperature readings in celcius and fahrenheiht if anyone is intersted. If not, I will just post them in fahrenheiht.
im english so degrees C would be nice but if im the only 1 dont bother, i can easily convert
--------------------
Edited by mustangbob3 (07/30/15 01:19 PM)
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22023186 - 07/31/15 06:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sorry about the delay, my service provider has had technical difficulties in my area the past few days.
The chart below was observed for the sole purpose of determining differentials between hygrometers. By running this observation, I have learned a few things.
The first thing, is how long it takes for the hygrometers to adjust when moved to a new location. As you can see the accurite hygrometer (3) took a little while to adjust when I moved it in the exact location of the insten probes (1,2). But once it adjusted, the temperature differential became more consistent. I'm not sure about the accurite rh readings, though because the differential seems to be all over the place. Should I go with an average differential or just monitor conditions inside of one tub and leave the other insten outside of the tub?
The second thing I learned but is not shown in this chart is after a few minutes in the room, the temp goes up about a half of a degree (celcius) or so. I believe this is caused by my body heat but can't say that confidently without further investigation.
time hygrometer 1 hygrometer 2 hygrometer 3 5:30pm. 50%/23*C,73*F 51%/23*C,73*F 42%/23*C,73*F
6:00pm. 50%/23*C,73*F 51%/23*C,73*F 46%/22*C,72*F
6:30pm. 51%/22*C,72*F 53%/22*C,72*F 46%/21*C,70*F
7:00pm. 52%/23*C,73*F 51%/23*C,73*F 47%/22*C,72*F
7:30pm. 51%/22*C,72*F 52%/22*C,72*F 46%/21*C,70*F
8:00pm. 51%/22*C,72*F 52%/22*C,72*F 47%/21*C,70*F
8:30pm. 50%/21*C,70*F 52%/21*C,70*F 46%/20*C,68*F
9:00pm. 50%/21*C,70*F 52%/21*C,70*F 47%/20*C,68*F
5:30am. 59%/19*C,66*F 61%/19*C,66*F 62%/18*C,64*F
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22023305 - 07/31/15 07:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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yeah i would be tempted to average it out or do more readings then plot on a chart, differential on x axis and times on y axis. join the dots. then find average height of the peaks and average place of the lows and then work out the half way point between these averages and work with that.
the humidity % in the tubs is far lower than i expected?
would they not want to be in the mid 90s minimum, or is it intended and am i missing something?
temps in tub stay stable- seems to stay at 1 degree C above the growroom temp. in theory you could work out exactly how much heat per hour the myc adds to the system per amount of substrate in your tubs.(work out the volume of air in the tub then find out how many joules of heat it takes to raise this volume of air by 1 degree) really simple and, maybe useful to know later or for other projects 
Quote:
The second thing I learned but is not shown in this chart is after a few minutes in the room, the temp goes up about a half of a degree (celcius) or so. I believe this is caused by my body heat but can't say that confidently without further investigation.
its quite surprising how much heat escapes our body!
several people in a room will raise the temp by a noticeable amount in a small space of time, i can easily see 1 person raising temps by up to a degree.
humans run at up to 5 BTUs ( 1 btu is 1055 joules) ,but most around 4BTU and that equates to around 70-80 watts(ish) constant heat, so you added a heat source and you also displaced some air when you entered the room, meaning now there was less air to warm in the room so the small heat source(you) has less work to do to raise the temps.
you added a heat source and decrease the volume/ work load so temps have to rise.
EDIT not sure you americans use btu's, prob not  anyway it stands for british thermal unit ( like our heat is different lol we like to be special)
Edited by mustangbob3 (07/31/15 08:17 AM)
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22023388 - 07/31/15 08:09 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes. I understand what btu's are. In the US, ac units are based on btu's. Lol.
Yes. You are missing something. Hygrometers 1 and 2 have not been put into the tubs yet. The hygrometers were simply being tested for there differentials. It needed to be done before I ran the actual preliminary test, which will be ran starting this evening. Meaning I will introduce fruiting conditions and then I will observe and record data for 24 hours straight, starting tonight.
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hamloaf
Loaf of Fam.


Registered: 12/23/09
Posts: 20,192
Loc: Oklahoma.
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22023394 - 07/31/15 08:12 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Go Mikey, it's ya' birthday and we gonna' party like it's your birthday. 
Bob, we use BTU's over hear to measure thermal energy. Also, nice tidbit of information over how many BTU's an average human being runs.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22023412 - 07/31/15 08:22 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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lol im an idiot ,
i was perplexed as to why the tubs was the same humidity as the growroom 
i get you now lol just ignore what i said about working out how much heat the myc adds per hour then, as the temps was not for in the tub.
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CMOSS
Back Again


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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22023428 - 07/31/15 08:29 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey thanks for going through with this, I've seen alot of people set these kind of things up then never follow through on posting datapoint. Good Work! One of the more helpful parent posts that can help improve our understanding of growth parameters.
Even in the two years i've been gone, I've seen a swing in the 'recommended' procedure for general cube growers.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: hamloaf]
#22023429 - 07/31/15 08:29 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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hows it going ham 
its the word british threw me off and wasnt sure 
as mike was courteous enough to convert F to C, i should at least make an effort to talk in terms that mean something to all
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: CMOSS]
#22023822 - 07/31/15 10:19 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
hamloaf said: Go Mikey, it's ya' birthday and we gonna' party like it's your birthday. 
Bob, we use BTU's over hear to measure thermal energy. Also, nice tidbit of information over how many BTU's an average human being runs. 
Nice avatar. I seen that pic on fakebook a few weeks ago. Did you catch any of the photo's and/or articles on pluto. There were some very interesting things we learned that we did not know previous to the fly-by.
Quote:
mustangbob3 said: hows it going ham 
its the word british threw me off and wasnt sure 
as mike was courteous enough to convert F to C, i should at least make an effort to talk in terms that mean something to all 
Actually, lol, I had to convert it the other way. The 2 insten hygrometers only read in celcius and so I changed the accurite to read the same.
Quote:
CMOSS said: Hey thanks for going through with this, I've seen alot of people set these kind of things up then never follow through on posting datapoint. Good Work! One of the more helpful parent posts that can help improve our understanding of growth parameters.
Even in the two years i've been gone, I've seen a swing in the 'recommended' procedure for general cube growers.
Thanks for dropping by. Glad to see new cultivators drop by and show there interest. This work is not being done just for me, it's essentially for all of us. So if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask.
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Aero
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22023929 - 07/31/15 10:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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so walk me through again, i saw those numbers what happened at 5.30 am?
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insanemike

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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Aero] 1
#22023977 - 07/31/15 11:08 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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My temps drop and rh go up in the am because the outside temp drops in my region. Between 3am and 5am is when temp is at its lowest and between 3pm and 5pm temps are at there highest. My grow room temps never go above 75*F and never go below 65*F. Humidity is relative to temperature so usually when temps rise, humidity drops and when temps drop, humidity rises. My system is designed to function properly when grow room temps stay between 65*F-75*F and between 40%-60% rh.
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Aero
Orea


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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22023989 - 07/31/15 11:15 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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cool thanks for clearing that up
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insanemike

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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Aero]
#22024068 - 07/31/15 11:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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No problem, Aero. That's what I'm here for. If you haven't already, check your pm's.
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Darkhome
•Shaman•N•Training•



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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22024273 - 07/31/15 12:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” ~Terence McKenna~ "NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Darkhome]
#22025106 - 07/31/15 04:38 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's going to take a little while for all 3 of the hygrometers to level out. I will take another pic when they do and then I will take the tape off of the holes.
Edited by insanemike (07/31/15 04:38 PM)
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Aero
Orea


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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22025320 - 07/31/15 05:31 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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looking good ! nice rhizo there
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taGyo
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Aero]
#22026324 - 07/31/15 09:54 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#22026970 - 08/01/15 03:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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love how much info your sharing
over the years, the amount of people who dont realise that more heat decreases the potential humidity of the air!
in past i have even heard people say raise the temps to increase evap for better pinset and also more humidity lol, and people have tried to argued this fact with me!
but it dont work like that, once the tub is at its max potential humidity adding more heat will decrease humidity and thus evap from sub and not increase it, as warmer air cannot hold as much water the evap from sub is halted and any that does will be equally met with condensation on the tub walls to keep equilibrium.
this thread is a great source of information and is setting things straight for lots of people!
nice one mike!
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insanemike

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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22027045 - 08/01/15 05:14 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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It has been almost 12 hours of observation and neither tubs rh has moved down from 99%. This is making me a little uneasy. I was actually expecting the rh inside of the tubs to fluctuate as the temps fluctuated but nada. I placed the probes roughly at inlet hole height. Would placing the probes closer to substrate level make a difference? Did I miscalculate and thus the holes aren't large enough? Should the holes be closer to substrate level? These are some of the thoughts running through my head.
On the other hand, every hole on both tubs has a halo around it. My grow room temps have stayed within my set range. The substrate looks very healthy.
My substrate has some pooling water from condensation running down the walls. It was caused by when I moved them to set up the probes. It may be pointless to move them again to dab the water off the substrate because the condensation will probably run again when being moved back. The only thing I can think of that may make a difference is to dry the walls and then dab the substrate. Does this seem viable to any of you?
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22027103 - 08/01/15 05:52 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i think what your seeing is the power of the engine that is the mycelial system.
it actually wants to put out more water into the tub but is limited by the amount the air holds.
so it quickly adds more as soon as available but then becomes restricted again when the air will hold no more.
its the myc system overpowering the power of temp difference so it plays no part.
i talked about this in pms the other week if you can remember. 'a system in a system...'
its just a testiment to the out put the myc is capable of but in our tubs is resricted by the air volume.
so the power of the myc just plows on and keeps it at the highest the air volume will allow 
EDIT i would dab up the pooling water on the sub, but im lazy and would let the walls just run down between the liner and tub wall away from sub
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insanemike

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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22027130 - 08/01/15 06:19 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustangbob3 said: i think what your seeing is the power of the engine that is the mycelial system.
it actually wants to put out more water into the tub but is limited by the amount the air holds.
so it quickly adds more as soon as available but then becomes restricted again when the air will hold no more.
its the myc system overpowering the power of temp difference so it plays no part.
i talked about this in pms the other week if you can remember. 'a system in a system...'
its just a testiment to the out put the myc is capable of but in our tubs is resricted by the air volume.
so the power of the myc just plows on and keeps it at the highest the air volume will allow 
EDIT i would dab up the pooling water on the sub, but im lazy and would let the walls just run down between the liner and tub wall away from sub 
Thanks for easing my mind a little. Yes. I do remember quite well of you speaking of a system within a system. So your saying that the system is working properly, it's just that the mycelia is capable of putting out a lot more than what the system was designed for? Should the constant 99% rh be a concern at all?
I did not use any liners so I think I may go a head and dry the walls and dab the substrate then. Doing this will give me an opportunity to watch the power of the mycelium and to witness the recondensation of the walls. Could be an interesting observation.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22027142 - 08/01/15 06:27 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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tbh i expected slight fluctuctions.
but remember you will still be getting evap so dont worry.
for every bit of humidity that is leaving the tub the myc will be giving back to maintain humidity in the tub.
so it is still losing/ evapourating at a constant rate even if it gives the illousion that it cant be
the amount of evap will equal the amount lost out the outlet holes 
compensation and balancing and all that 
only prob with being so high humidity all the time is the caps on the fruit will be more susceptible to bacterial blotch maybe?
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insanemike

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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22027144 - 08/01/15 06:32 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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This was my pm to you bob but thought it really should be discussed exclusively in this thread, if you don't mind?
So is my next step to increase out flow? If the mycelium is always waiting on the system to release pressure and the inlet holes are simply there to control in flow than the next logical step would be to increase pressure release by allowing more exhaust. Does this sound right? Let me know if I ended up too far out in left field so that we can have a meeting back on the mound.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22027191 - 08/01/15 07:09 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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ok mike
you will have to edit this post and put my rely i sent you back lol ive deleted my sent messages box lol
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Edited by mustangbob3 (08/01/15 07:24 AM)
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22027256 - 08/01/15 07:56 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Mustangbob3 said
"bigger holes will help with the .. the.. lets call it back pressure lol
but tbh i dont know by how much the myc is limited in this way in say normal monotubs.
so your going to have to suck it and see really.
holding back some water in the sub may be benefit but limits evap somewhat.
and the reverse is obvious. i fear even bigger holes wont drastically change things in the way we think.
think about it the air as it warms to rise drops water out... so air leaving the tub will not be as humid as the air in the tub. lots of moisture are left behind.
its making my mind spin thinking of all the effects together to work out what is happening and it what proportions lol
but
it makes sense to me the most effective way of increasing evap would not be the outlet but inlet.
draw more cooler dry air in much more effecient than increasing the out as the loss from out is limited by warm air holding less water.
bring in more at the inlet, this cooler dry air will hold lots of water and will then allow more evap
i would try to achieve more inlet by changing the efficency of flow.
and i would do this by playing with the height difference between the in and out holes this way you alter the flow and also the size of head of warm air at the top space of the tub. you know all about bouancy driven ventilation and know how that will lend a hand in drawing in air at the inlet somewhat sort of like fine tuning lol lowering the top holes abit will make a larger head of warmer air at the top of the tub and vice versa raising the bottom holes will have some effect
as we cant really alter the engine input power as discussed before. but flow effeciency we can play with.
but you still need to keep it in the air exchanges per hour range required, this needs concideration too.
short of changing holes height difference or different tub dimensions ect you just got work with what you got and workout solutions as they are needed.
tbh i havent ever even used a hygrometer in a mono.. ever maybe they always keep the humidity.
i have literally just expected some fluctuations. surprising to me. maybe get others to check their tubs see if is maintains aswell? means little but will give comfort that your fruiting will go fine
in short see how it goes. we dont know how much moisture the tub is losing so no idea how much evap. you may have it perfect! you could/prob also be fine staying at 99% humidity all the way"
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22027260 - 08/01/15 07:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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...and I responded
I think what I need to do is choose a part of the system to change and then record changes within conditions. This will give me a chance to push the limits of each part of the system. I think it may not be a matter of making one change but rather making slight changes to each part of the system, one at a time. This system is built through the sum of its parts. So expecting enough of a change in one part of the system to solve everything, is kind of narrow minded of us.
Since hole size; inlet and outlet and hole height differential are the only parts we can change, I think I will first push the limits of the outlet hole size. This part of the system is the least likely to cause drastic changes with slight increases and will set up a leaping point for the other parts of the system that are a little more sensitive to change.
I will only feel comfortable when I can reach 95% rh that I accounted for when calculating air density inside of the tub. Maybe the problem is that rh is the only variable that is not accounted for in the big equation.
Does having levels of inlet/outlet holes to account for mushroom growth sound too far fetched? Like as the mushrooms grow above the outlet holes, the outlet holes become inlet holes. You know like having levels of holes that keep the same height differential, starting from substrate level all the way up the height of the tub. Of course since the lower the inlet holes the smaller the open area, so as the height of the holes increases so does hole size. What do you think of that craziness?
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22027604 - 08/01/15 10:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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lol

i wouldnt go that far just yet lol but
Quote:
I think what I need to do is choose a part of the system to change and then record changes within conditions. This will give me a chance to push the limits of each part of the system. I think it may not be a matter of making one change but rather making slight changes to each part of the system, one at a time. This system is built through the sum of its parts. So expecting enough of a change in one part of the system to solve everything, is kind of narrow minded of us.
this sounds a plan 
even if it just highlights what range of effect each control has
it will only come in handy. an extra tool and understanding in your arsenal 
every time everything is tweaked it seems their is always 1 thing out of balance!
im sure with the numbers and patience you will see it through.
any mistakes that are made now are best made now, and will ensure a solid design in the end.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3] 1
#22027667 - 08/01/15 10:31 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustangbob3 said: lol

i wouldnt go that far just yet lol but
Quote:
I think what I need to do is choose a part of the system to change and then record changes within conditions. This will give me a chance to push the limits of each part of the system. I think it may not be a matter of making one change but rather making slight changes to each part of the system, one at a time. This system is built through the sum of its parts. So expecting enough of a change in one part of the system to solve everything, is kind of narrow minded of us.
this sounds a plan 
even if it just highlights what range of effect each control has
it will only come in handy. an extra tool and understanding in your arsenal 
every time everything is tweaked it seems their is always 1 thing out of balance!
im sure with the numbers and patience you will see it through.
any mistakes that are made now are best made now, and will ensure a solid design in the end.
I know. I know. I was getting way too far a head of myself. I probably should have posted the more sound plan to conclude my post but that's just two of the personalities that are me. They came to me simultaneously but I only have the ability to present one and then the other. Meaning I should have further planned the direction of my last post.
Anyway, yeah I will always go with the more logical plan.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22027944 - 08/01/15 11:11 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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,
I wish I majored in some science instead of philosophy
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#22028267 - 08/01/15 12:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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After digging into some of the data I have recorded for the past 17 hours now, there are some interesting trends to note.
Average outside temp has been right on point with the number plugged into the system before building the observation tubs. 70*F.
Average outside relative humidity has been off by +9% but when I observed average outside relative humidity, the hygrometer wasn't sitting near 2 respirating tubs either. This may explain why the numbers are so far off.
Average temp differential is another statistic that my original observation was completely off from. It seems that bob and I gave the mycelium a little more credit than they deserve. The average temp differential is only +2*F, with the average inside temp so far being 72*F.
I decided to take my new trends for a test drive through the system just to see how it would effect total inlet area and the results so far are staggering. As of right now with the way trends are going, the total inlet area has increased +235%. That is pretty damn significant if you ask me.
With all of that said, I will need to make sure I plug the complete 24 hours of trends into the system and determine where I need to make my corrections to get me back on course.
I will be posting all of my statitistics in comprehensible format as soon as I finish my 24 hour observation. So stay tuned tonight or stop by tomorrow when you have the time. Thank you.
Edited by insanemike (08/01/15 12:57 PM)
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22028354 - 08/01/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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mind blowing.
Quote:
Average temp differential is another statistic that my original observation was completely off from. It seems that bob and I gave the mycelium a little more credit than they deserve. The average temp differential is only +2*F, with the average inside temp so far being 72*F.
seems so or that the tubs lose the heat faster than expected.
either the myc dosent make as much heat or the myc is making alot but the tub dosent hold on to it and loses to the room fast?
either way its good that it stays at more or less a constant
from that and your tub volume you could work out how much the myc adds to the system per hour per amount of sub (good just to know lol) then if you find out the rate of how much heat the tub loses per hour, you can work exactly the heat output of the myc per volume of sub (might be useful in other areas.
your work is shedding light on so many aspects. very interesting stuff. first time many of us have seen the figures!!
iam interested to see if the heat output stays the same at all stages of growth or if in later stages as enzymatic process slows breaking down nutrients if heat drops and if the myc maintains temps like we do.
like if they have a running temp but when doing more work runs higher and as they come to a finish and drop spores heat output drop noticably!
again mike all ground breaking interesting stuff! soon you will know all the ins and outs like the back of your hand!
mind the pun
Edited by mustangbob3 (08/01/15 01:18 PM)
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22028611 - 08/01/15 01:47 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks bob. I think you have given me the premise for preliminary run # 2. I will make my initial adjustments after plugging in the new figures and then I will observe conditions again but next time it will be observed from spawn run to harvest.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22028649 - 08/01/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Darkhome
•Shaman•N•Training•



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Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22028978 - 08/01/15 03:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can't wait for your final conclusions Mike...You might just change the way we view (and utilize) Mono tubs!
-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” ~Terence McKenna~ "NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Darkhome]
#22032255 - 08/02/15 06:54 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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24 HOUR OBSERVATION the figures below are not conclusive, further study must be conducted
time Tub 1 Tub 2 Room
09pm 75*F. 75*F. 72*F 10pm 73*F. 73*F. 70*F 11pm 72*F. 72*F. 70*F 12am 72*F. 73*F. 70*F 01am 72*F. 73*F. 70*F 02am 72*F. 72*F. 70*F 03am 72*F. 72*F. 70*F 04am 70*F. 72*F. 68*F 05am 70*F. 72*F. 68*F 06am 70*F. 72*F. 68*F 07am 70*F. 70*F. 68*F 08am 70*F. 70*F. 68*F 09am 72*F. 70*F. 70*F 10am 72*F. 72*F. 70*F 11am 73*F. 73*F. 72*F 12pm 73*F. 73*F. 72*F 01pm 75*F. 75*F. 73*F 02pm 75*F. 75*F. 73*F 03pm 75*F. 75*F. 73*F 04pm 77*F. 75*F. 72*F 05pm 75*F. 75*F. 72*F 06pm 75*F. 75*F. 72*F 07pm 75*F. 75*F. 72*F 08pm 73*F. 73*F. 72*F 09pm 73*F. 72*F. 70*F
Lights Off: 9pm Lights On: 6am
As of this morning, I have opted for a 12on/12off light cycle starting at 7am which will be used for these observations from here on out. After going through the trends, I really wish I had a way to keep my grow room at a constant temperature. Within the trends of the chart above, it's obvious that the mycelium is doing work and the chart clearly shows when the work is at its highest and when the work is at it's lowest.
Today I will be working on drilling holes that are sized to cooperate with the averages collected from my 24 hour observation. I'm hoping this will drop the rh in the tubs enough so that I can start collecting data for humidity differentials which will help me better understand the mycelium at work.
My only regret so far is not having a more temperature controlled room. If I had that, the work the mycelium is doing would be more emphasized throughout the chart because the differentials would only pertain to what's going on inside of the tub where as the outside temps would be constant.
For those who love numbers, trends and percentages as much as I do, go a head and dig right into this chart. I ask just one favor, report any interesting trends that you might find. I would love to discuss them with you.
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Buck513
Registered: 04/17/14
Posts: 5,682
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike] 1
#22032269 - 08/02/15 07:03 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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An insane thread made by insanemike.

I've never seen someone fit their username so well.
-------------------- Fail to plan and you plan to fail. Enter the Ban Lottery
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Buck513]
#22032313 - 08/02/15 07:37 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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notice both tubs took 5 hours to drop 3 degrees. the timing is diff tub 1 11-4am it took tub 2 1- 6am it took
but both lose the heat the same, as expected.
it the same time frame the room only lost 2. so it seems the myc actively chose to decrease temp because of some other cue if was just based on room temps then it would be equal.
the myc chose to decrease activity at around that time. well both tubs did.
was this when you turned lights off or was it way before at 7 pm?
and it took along time to slow enzymatic processes. and it took 2 or 3 hours ish for the system to slow down. so it took a few hours after deciding to sleep and conserve energy for the next light period before it could slow itself down enough. makes sense for a chemical process. difficult to turn off and on.
i would say there is a slight difference in input from the myc in each tub. and thats why they not in sync with each other.
each is adding slightly different amounts so timing are a little different.
but both lose the heat from the tub at the same rate.
both subs are very similar and i dont think you will get both to be exactly the same as the subs ect will have little differences. over the course over time these differences will show in the numbers.
the more time the greater the effect may be seen or it may balance out and instead of running on 2 parallel lines they might just criss cross each other and keep meeting in the middle.
also would i be right in thinking that the light went on at 7am and it seem it took 2hours for the myc to respond and get back into full swing?
around the same as it does to wind down the enzymatic processes?
am i making sense or just babbling lol
--------------------
Edited by mustangbob3 (08/02/15 07:50 AM)
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22032504 - 08/02/15 09:13 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustangbob3 said: notice both tubs took 5 hours to drop 3 degrees. the timing is diff tub 1 11-4am it took tub 2 1- 6am it took
but both lose the heat the same, as expected.
it the same time frame the room only lost 2. so it seems the myc actively chose to decrease temp because of some other cue if was just based on room temps then it would be equal.
I have to change a few outside parameters just to be sure that the temp differentials are biologically related or environmental. The way that I have my tubs set up could be affecting the numbers. My tubs were designed to have exhaust holes on the lid. The top of the bottom tub is mere inches away from the bottom of the top tub. If the heat from the sub in the top tub is warming the air above the exhaust on the bottom tub, it could be the difference that we're seeing. The force of gravity has a different effect depending on air densities. Meaning less air needs to be displaced. You could be right though bob and that's why I am going to lean more toward a mono tub type hole set up.
I will keep my 12 hole design for the inlet holes but lower them closer to substrate level. Then I will lower the exhaust holes down on to the walls of the tub while still maintaining the same height differential. The exhaust holes will be the same in number as the inlet holes and will be placed directly above them as well. I am also going to put six inches between the top and bottom tubs. I have already worked the numbers and have found that as long as the height differential is the same, the hole size will not.
the myc chose to decrease activity at around that time. well both tubs did.
was this when you turned lights off or was it way before at 7 pm?
Lights went off at 9pm and came back on at 6am
and it took along time to slow enzymatic processes. and it took 2 or 3 hours ish for the system to slow down. so it took a few hours after deciding to sleep and conserve energy for the next light period before it could slow itself down enough. makes sense for a chemical process. difficult to turn off and on.
I would say that is an educated guess at best. I haven't presented rh as of yet. I thought those numbers were just not conclusive enough to present because of the tubs constant reading of 99% rh. You have to remember that temperature only tells part of the story when talking about work being done. Humidity is next on the list. This is what will be observed next along with temperature. This way we can see how they relate and interact with one another. Once these two things are dissected then I will be observing repsiration.
i would say there is a slight difference in input from the myc in each tub. and thats why they not in sync with each other.
each is adding slightly different amounts so timing are a little different.
but both lose the heat from the tub at the same rate.
both subs are very similar and i dont think you will get both to be exactly the same as the subs ect will have little differences. over the course over time these differences will show in the numbers.
Again, you may be right but I have reason to believe that the differences are minute and will prove this with the changes that I will be making for the next observation.
the more time the greater the effect may be seen or it may balance out and instead of running on 2 parallel lines they might just criss cross each other and keep meeting in the middle.
it would be interesting to see some long term trends but I have to focus on the now and worry about later when it's more appropriate.
also would i be right in thinking that the light went on at 7am and it seem it took 2hours for the myc to respond and get back into full swing?
around the same as it does to wind down the enzymatic processes?
I don't want to jump to any conclusions just yet. There were some radical changes in room humidty that occured between the hours of 10 - 11pm and again between the hours of 7 - 8am. These two occurences took place exactly 2 hours after there was a change in light exposure. With himidity increasing by 7% 2 hours after lights were turned off and decreased by 7% 2 hours after lights were turned back on. My problem with these numbers are that there isn't anything related to compare them to. The tubs rh are both at a constant 99%. If the holes were the correct size, the humidity inside of the tub should be affected by the humidity outside of the tub and vice versa.
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Ajahn Don
Stranger


Registered: 07/05/15
Posts: 482
Loc: The buckle of the Bible belt
Last seen: 9 months, 1 day
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#22032781 - 08/02/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
taGyo said:
,
I wish I majored in some science instead of philosophy 
So do the philosophy of science. Somebody has to tell us what it means.
Sapiens: A Brief History of Mankind HIGHLY recommended. 5 stars
We now return you over my head.
-------------------- "He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Ajahn Don]
#22032845 - 08/02/15 10:45 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ajahn Don said:
Quote:
taGyo said:
,
I wish I majored in some science instead of philosophy 
So do the philosophy of science. Somebody has to tell us what it means.
Sapiens: A Brief History of Mankind HIGHLY recommended. 5 stars
We now return you over my head.
Have you checked out my monotub improvent project journal? It goes into detail about what is now being studied.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22032892 - 08/02/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
insanemike said:
Quote:
Ajahn Don said:
Quote:
taGyo said:
,
I wish I majored in some science instead of philosophy 
So do the philosophy of science. Somebody has to tell us what it means.
Sapiens: A Brief History of Mankind HIGHLY recommended. 5 stars
We now return you over my head.
Have you checked out my monotub improvent project journal? It goes into detail about what is now being studied.
I actually took a few courses in Quantum Mechanics but that was more physics then anything.
For instance I would have taken the medium between the three humidity readings.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#22033076 - 08/02/15 11:42 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
taGyo said:
Quote:
insanemike said:
Quote:
Ajahn Don said:
Quote:
taGyo said:
,
I wish I majored in some science instead of philosophy 
So do the philosophy of science. Somebody has to tell us what it means.
Sapiens: A Brief History of Mankind HIGHLY recommended. 5 stars
We now return you over my head.
Have you checked out my monotub improvent project journal? It goes into detail about what is now being studied.
I actually took a few courses in Quantum Mechanics but that was more physics then anything.
For instance I would have taken the medium between the three humidity readings.
The problem with charting the average rh readings (which I have done) is that it's not quantifiable at this point. If the tub rh is at a constant 99% at the level of the exhaust holes then that would mean that the surface level is of that rh or higher. As long as the rh in the room is lower than the rh at surface level, the tub rh should decrease as the altitude in the tub increases, due to pressure differential and temperature differential gradients. The tub rh should fluctuate as the room rh fluctuates just as it does with temperature and it may be the key to figuring this whole thing out.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22033101 - 08/02/15 11:46 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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sorry mike could you answer me one question...
inside the tubs how much difference in temps is there between surface level and the top of the tub?
bit irrelevant , just for my own understanding
cheers for your time mate
--------------------
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22033119 - 08/02/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustangbob3 said: sorry mike could you answer me one question...
inside the tubs how much difference in temps is there between surface level and the top of the tub?
bit irrelevant , just for my own understanding
cheers for your time mate
That's such a fucking coincidence, I was just thinking about doing this. I tested the temp differentials between upper and lower apperture's when this idea was still premature. I just did think of it as I posted my last post. I'm right on top of it bob. Give me a few minutes.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22033139 - 08/02/15 11:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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--------------------
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22033148 - 08/02/15 12:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Me and the scientific method never clicked. I could explain to you Bohr's atom but couldn't tell you what thought process lead to what. When I experiment I do it on the fly, this is waaay more organized then anything I have done. For instance, I fruited off agar with a casing layer of CVG once just for the lulz with an extremely prolific KSSS clone and ended up babysitting it for a good 2 weeks before it pinned, and they weren't even that great.
The lack of water content plus a highly nutritious substrate (This was when I was using Pasty's recipe but adding a bit of Karo) lead to delayed pinning, slow colonization of the casing and finally lack luster fruits.
But they were potent as fuck for small fuckers lol.
I love what's going on here and I understand it but as for me helping you like Bob? Idk, you guys seem to really mesh. With that being said I read everything and will no longer hold my tongue if I come up with anything.
Your idea is extremely solid though, which is what I find interesting. If the tubs RH is at 99% why not experiment with bigger holes and less surface RH? Cubensis in the wild most likely has a wildly fluctuating pallete of humidity but I don't know this for a fact.
Regardless, you know where I stand with you Mike, 100% support
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#22033204 - 08/02/15 12:12 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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You are right, Tagyo. That is exactly what I am spending my day doing. I have made my new hole placements, patched up the holes in my lids and increased my exhaust holes which were detetmined by my observed averages this past friday+saturday. Now I'm in the process of once an hour, increase my inlet holes size starting from my first drill size and will move up fraction of an inch by fraction of an inch until I see rh begin to drop.
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taGyo
Strainiac/AMU



Registered: 10/16/14
Posts: 18,802
Loc: Journal Land
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22033255 - 08/02/15 12:21 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Perfect, this will let you gauge just how much FAE you can bring in that will induce pinning and hopefully create massive mushrooms.
I think bigger holes are the way to go, mushrooms LOVE FAE and I think we as growers put to many restrictions on them. As long as the tub is hydrated and not drying out (This is where a casing will definitely help) then mushrooms will form.
Now it's just up to finding the point of diminishing return.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#22033271 - 08/02/15 12:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i cant wait for mike to finish-
just think of the fruiting chambers you could make!
its the pans im waiting around for lol
--------------------
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22033405 - 08/02/15 01:02 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Surface Level Temperature 77*F Exhaust Holes Level 77.5*F
It may not be much of a difference but the difference is there. Perhaps, if the system was larger, the differences may be more profound. Anyway, no change in rh just yet. Going to increase inlet hole size from 5/64" to 3/32".
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22033470 - 08/02/15 01:17 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i wouldnt expect a larger difference anyhow.
but there is a difference 
and gyo im 1 part help, 1 part hindrance i think
--------------------
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22033698 - 08/02/15 02:20 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I just finished drilling the largest sized holes that I can possibly put into the tub without having to reconfigure the equation for more air displacements. I think I'm going to give it a few days and see how things come along. It occured to me that maybe I'm not accounting for long term amount of work done by the mycelium. What if the system builds pressure over time? Which over the long term, temp differentials become greater and humidity differentials become more narrow because of overall moisture loss from the substrate. With less moisture perhaps the mycelium needs to work harder which may cause the temperatures to rise and thus force more moisture loss. Do you see the hypothetical cycle I'm trying to draw for you?
During the hyphal knot/ primordia stage, we want 95+% rh at the substrate level to induce pinning. Maturing mushrooms demand more moisture for cell growth and need less moisure in the air. Perhaps with the primordia stage, the mycelium is less active so temps stay low and humidity stays high because of its relativity to temperature. As the primordia begin to grow into mushrooms, the mycelium becomes more active which raise the temps which lower the humidity because of its relativity to temperature.
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mustangbob3
Mad Myrmecologist



Registered: 10/15/14
Posts: 1,685
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22033841 - 08/02/15 02:49 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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these are all things your going to learn.
observation is your best friend here. making too many changes means you wont no how the first designs would have behaved further along into the cycle.
meaning you may not have had to adjust as much as you think.
it makes sense too that as the cycle goes on there will be less water added to the air from the myc as it drys up and water is accumilated in the fruits.
i think lower humidity wont hurt too much toward the end as the mushrooms fruits and the spaces between create pockets with there own little micro climates
and more air exchanges per hour might not be to bad or should i say wont be to bad as long as its not at the expense of the water in the sub.
it will have to balance so the sub retains enough moisture to last.
saying that, just look at cron fruiting without an fc! and in nature too it has unlimited lol so more air exchages cant be bad. as long as you can maintain surface humidity for the first part of the fruiting cycle you should be fine. once fruits are growing they sort of lend a hand in creating micro-climates as i said above making the job easier and more tolerant of lower humidity air
Edited by mustangbob3 (08/02/15 02:57 PM)
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: mustangbob3]
#22033970 - 08/02/15 03:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mustangbob3 said: these are all things your going to learn.
observation is your best friend here. making too many changes means you wont no how the first designs would have behaved further along into the cycle.
meaning you may not have had to adjust as much as you think.
it makes sense too that as the cycle goes on there will be less water added to the air from the myc as it drys up and water is accumilated in the fruits.
i think lower humidity wont hurt too much toward the end as the mushrooms fruits and the spaces between create pockets with there own little micro climates
and more air exchanges per hour might not be to bad or should i say wont be to bad as long as its not at the expense of the water in the sub.
it will have to balance so the sub retains enough moisture to last.
saying that, just look at cron fruiting without an fc! and in nature too it has unlimited lol so more air exchages cant be bad. as long as you can maintain surface humidity for the first part of the fruiting cycle you should be fine. once fruits are growing they sort of lend a hand in creating micro-climates as i said above making the job easier and more tolerant of lower humidity air:)
I have a plan for comparison. Even though I increased air flow in tub 1, I did not increase air flow in tub 2. The results will be inconclusive of course because I did not use an isolate but it will atleast give me a direction to head toward if one tub out performs the other.
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Darkhome
•Shaman•N•Training•



Registered: 07/10/15
Posts: 517
Loc: United States
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22034764 - 08/02/15 06:29 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” ~Terence McKenna~ "NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.
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Ajahn Don
Stranger


Registered: 07/05/15
Posts: 482
Loc: The buckle of the Bible belt
Last seen: 9 months, 1 day
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Darkhome]
#22035892 - 08/02/15 11:25 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Darkhome said:

Me, too.
-------------------- "He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."
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MudaFuka
Poppin bottles



Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22036719 - 08/03/15 09:05 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Looks to me like you are over thinking things and even if you get the hole placement perfect in one room it won't work the same in another room with different temperature, RH and air flow. If you are having fun figuring out how a mono works that's cool but I don't see anything tangible coming from this. Monos work great they way they are. I haven't had to take time to dial one in, in over a year. Maybe it's because I see myself as a farmer not a scientist but I don't get the point.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: MudaFuka]
#22036839 - 08/03/15 09:44 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yes. We certainly do have different goals in this hobby. If I had to guess, I would say that 80% of this community spends 99% of the their time focusing on genetics and either completely ignore nutrition and environment or they just don't fully understand how those sciences interact with genetics. That's why I'm here. I am what the rest of this community isn't (I don't mean that in an offensive way).
Yes. My tub design will be tuned into my environment but that doesn't mean that my system will not work for everyone else.
The way that I see it, is that you can keep fondling your polyfil (speaking to the masses) or you can build tubs that are specific for your environment. If you know your temp in, temp out, humidity out and altitude, I will be able to build schematics for your specific needs.
Some may stick their nose in the air at me for saying this but progress is not made by standing still. I am okay with you sticking to what is tried and true but there are others out there like me who want to know the dynamics behind great monotub conditions.
What if I could prove what the best combination of conditions for best pin set are? The most ideal evaporation rate from the substrate? The best time of day to introduce fruiting conditions? Etc. Would you be interested in my work then?
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Darkhome
•Shaman•N•Training•



Registered: 07/10/15
Posts: 517
Loc: United States
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22037127 - 08/03/15 11:02 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I can never be satisfied just to know that something works...I have an obsessive need to understand the "Why" and "How"...I was that kid that took everything in the house apart to understand it... Mike is that same kid grown into an Intelligent Adult with the experience and knowledge to actually Answer some important questions... I hope this is coming across as the compliment I mean it to be... In short ...keep up the Great Work Mike!
-------------------- “The shaman is not merely a sick man, or a madman; he is a sick man who has healed himself.” ~Terence McKenna~ "NOTHING"...I post or say is "TRUE"...Any pictures are taken from the Web and any conversation is just research for a fictional character. That being said; He is constantly seeking knowledge and evolving.
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MudaFuka
Poppin bottles



Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Darkhome]
#22037202 - 08/03/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Like I said I don't need to dial my tubs in anymore. I use permanently affixed eco felt on the bottom and 8 1" holes on the top that stay open when I fruit upstairs in the summer and lightly stuffed with poly when I fruit in the winter or in my basement. They work perfectly that way so I never found a need to fuck with them. I'd rather spend my time working on things like genetics, nutrition and different growing methods.
I don't think I stand still. The masses weren't using my current methods when I first got here.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: MudaFuka] 1
#22037310 - 08/03/15 11:51 AM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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No1 Improvement always seems to be when you figure out that listening to the mushrooms is the best advance you can make
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: bodhisatta]
#22037424 - 08/03/15 12:13 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
MudaFuka said: Like I said I don't need to dial my tubs in anymore. I use permanently affixed eco felt on the bottom and 8 1" holes on the top that stay open when I fruit upstairs in the summer and lightly stuffed with poly when I fruit in the winter or in my basement. They work perfectly that way so I never found a need to fuck with them. I'd rather spend my time working on things like genetics, nutrition and different growing methods.
I don't think I stand still. The masses weren't using my current methods when I first got here.
I'm not trying to change how you do things, muda. You also should know by now, how much respect I have for you and the work that you've done. The difference between you and I, is that I am not a farmer. I am an amateur mycologist trying to better my understanding of mushrooms and what the triggers are for optimum growth. This leads me to bodhisatta.
Quote:
bodhisatta said: No1 Improvement always seems to be when you figure out that listening to the mushrooms is the best advance you can make
Mushrooms don't talk so there is no point in listening. You may have the experience to know what gives you great results but you can not prove it using the universal language (math), so your point is invalid in this thread.
I think you and muda are for some reason feeling threatened by my work. Why? I'm not sure but even if I stopped posting my studies, I will still be taking this on with or without the community. So any lurkers out there who are interested in my work but have not introduced yourself to me, do so now. Everyone else who has shown their interest, please reitterate that for me.
If you care about my work, post a thumbs up. If you don't want me to continue to post my results and want this thread locked, post a thumbs down.
If by tomorrow morning, I have more thumbs down than thumbs up, I will have this thread locked. If I get more thumbs up then thumbs down, I will continue to post my results and those of you who don't like it can move the hell along.
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MudaFuka
Poppin bottles



Registered: 12/14/13
Posts: 18,648
Loc: Canada
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22037470 - 08/03/15 12:23 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't feel threatened. You asked me to look at this thread so I did. If you hadn't asked for my opinion I would have left well enough alone. I honestly don't care AT ALL how ANYONE grows. I do what I do and answer people honestly when they ask me questions. I don't mean to shit on your work. If it interests you cool. It's just not my thing.
Oh and mushrooms do talk. They speak loud and clear. Learning to listen to them is the most valuable skill in this hobby. I use math all day every day. Most people do. It's the basis of everything. Growing mushrooms though I do by feel.
don't lock the thread. Keep doing what interests you.
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
Loc: IN ETHERS TORSION FIELD
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22037473 - 08/03/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
insanemike said: Maturing mushrooms demand more moisture for cell growth and need less moisure in the air. Perhaps with the primordia stage, the mycelium is less active so temps stay low and humidity stays high because of its relativity to temperature. As the primordia begin to grow into mushrooms, the mycelium becomes more active which raise the temps which lower the humidity because of its relativity to temperature.
mature mushrooms grow by cellular expansion not cellular division so moisture uptake is the only thing needed to mature. pin/primordia formation uses the most energy
and myc creates the most heat energy during colonization not fruiting.
your way overthinking his whole monotub design.
polyfill is your adjuster in monos, you tighten the poly to raise humidity and lower fae you loosen the poly to lower humidity and raise fae.
its that simple its ohmatic 
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8231041
--------------------
A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
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SteveRogers
gandy dancer



Registered: 10/24/06
Posts: 3,450
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22037474 - 08/03/15 12:24 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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God Damnit.
Mike don't let this drama you down.
If this thread goes belly up, please PM me the raw data. I would like to go through it and see what I can see.
-------------------- "General, I am loyal to nothing......except The Dream"
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



Registered: 01/01/09
Posts: 26,719
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22037482 - 08/03/15 12:27 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
insanemike said:
Mushrooms don't talk so there is no point in listening. You may have the experience to know what gives you great results but you can not prove it using the universal language (math), so your point is invalid in this thread.
dumbest shit said in this whole thread
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taGyo
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: 13shrooms]
#22037541 - 08/03/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why lockdown?
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: 13shrooms]
#22037579 - 08/03/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
13shrooms said:
Quote:
insanemike said: Maturing mushrooms demand more moisture for cell growth and need less moisure in the air. Perhaps with the primordia stage, the mycelium is less active so temps stay low and humidity stays high because of its relativity to temperature. As the primordia begin to grow into mushrooms, the mycelium becomes more active which raise the temps which lower the humidity because of its relativity to temperature.
mature mushrooms grow by cellular expansion not cellular division so moisture uptake is the only thing needed to mature. pin/primordia formation uses the most energy
I know that they grow by cell expansion. Moisture uptake is dictated by evaporation rate which is a direct response to temperature, air flow and gravity. Notice how mushrooms grow slower but meatier when temps are low?
and myc creates the most heat energy during colonization not fruiting.
I would agree with that but I think temps may increase as does evaporation as mushrooms grow
your way overthinking his whole monotub design.
if I was just in this hobby to make a quick buck like most, yhan yeah I would agree with you there.
polyfill is your adjuster in monos, you tighten the poly to raise humidity and lower fae you loosen the poly to lower humidity and raise fae.
The point of this project is to not have to adjust polyfil so that would just defeat the purpose
its that simple its ohmatic 
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8231041
I've read atleast a half dozen times. I give the guy respect but I doubt he conducted any real scientific study so he that tek does not hold much value here.
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13shrooms
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22037616 - 08/03/15 01:03 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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here, an improvement on the monotub..
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20591316#20591316
and your going to get lots of help by always saying all the experience from older members/threads hold no value here. 
have fun.
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A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
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Ajahn Don
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22037620 - 08/03/15 01:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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His Holiness the Dali Lama and I are enjoying this. He said, "I'm a Buddhist. When they find something better, I'll be that." There are those who believe, and those who need proof. When they converse, we are all improved.
Do not lock. Please, all, continue.
-------------------- "He's not altogether dense, but he's not altogether there."
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: 13shrooms]
#22037646 - 08/03/15 01:09 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
13shrooms said:
Quote:
insanemike said:
Mushrooms don't talk so there is no point in listening. You may have the experience to know what gives you great results but you can not prove it using the universal language (math), so your point is invalid in this thread.
dumbest shit said in this whole thread 
Yeah. It does sound dumb, especially when you do something dumb like take what I said out of context.
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13shrooms
Lightning Shaman



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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22037669 - 08/03/15 01:14 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I didnt take it out of context, I read the whole thing only I singled out that statement because of the pure ignorance of it all.
just because you dont have numbers doesnt mean you cant learn from what your grows do. its how you know if you made good changes/adjustments or not. 
C'mon science guy, observation is the other half of science.. 
but that holds little value here doesnt it?
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A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
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taGyo
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: 13shrooms]
#22037674 - 08/03/15 01:15 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think this is why people start experiments like this in journals lol.
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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blindingleaf
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike] 1
#22037678 - 08/03/15 01:16 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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mushrooms might not talk, but there is a dialogue between you and the mushroom. that dialogue is what the changes in ur mono tub are going to be based on. it might not be in words like we use, but it will be of the same cause:effect, action:response, that other dialogues are defined as.
just because you quantified something in numbers doesn't mean the entire phenomenon of growing is suddenly recognized and perfected.
mushrooms are as dynamic and responsive as we are. unless you have access to a vacuum, there will be subtleties affecting things on minute levels that change the situation.
I think a more appropriate title for what you might be after maybe is "the dynamics of a mono tub". because i would find that interesting, especially with the thermal camera if u got it (u linked it earlier). would be cool to see visualized flow patterns of air movement in different hole set ups, with different fan speeds/directions, all the while knowing its more important to identify the dynamics of air flow in a situation as close to ones as possible, so they can then decide what actions would be most helpful to their particular case (change hole size/location, change poly density, change fan speed/direction, etc)
i don't think one improvement will solve everything, but i think if the thread was more about understanding dynamics of air flow in mono tubs, it would benefit community more to help them help themselves.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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13shrooms
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: blindingleaf]
#22037691 - 08/03/15 01:19 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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A M U Click here ^ for the AMU forum VVV AMUs Free Active/Edible/Exotic Spore Print or Syringe or Edible Culture Trade Thread VVV "Man is the sex organ of the machine world" ~ Marshall McLuhan
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: 13shrooms]
#22037730 - 08/03/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well said leaf 
where the hell is this guys tag
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taGyo
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22037731 - 08/03/15 01:28 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: where the hell is this guys tag 
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#22037804 - 08/03/15 01:50 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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No. I don't think I'm going to post anything else. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with people who don't care about what I'm trying to accomplish. Anyone interested in my work and/or would like to help me along my journey, I will create a "post to message box" and send you the link.
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taGyo
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22037807 - 08/03/15 01:51 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Do a journal post bro
-------------------- Gyo's Better Grows TNF Q&A AMU Q&A Dominus fortunae meae sum
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: taGyo]
#22037830 - 08/03/15 01:58 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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I am interested in your findings but I think the issue is in how your presenting it. There is good things to be learned here but really the journey is just beginning and the title reads like you're further along. So people get the wrong idea or miss the point.
I agree with tag that this should be carried out in a journal. If you want broader input the post a link to the journal to direct interested parties there. Care should be taken to stress that nothing has either been proven or replaced.
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blindingleaf
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: Pastywhyte]
#22037851 - 08/03/15 02:04 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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i wasn't trying to be a dick, and i don't think i was arguing. but i guess, like all dialogues, there are many variables in understanding
Quote:
First, I would like to thank the community in advance for participating in my environmental science project. It means a lot to me when I recieve advice and constructive critism. It challenges me to see things from a different vantage point and helps me move things along.
I was following what u outlined in your OP here. but take it like you want man, was just giving u my 2cents, as it appears you were trying to do with your posts.
I think there is benefit to be gained, and i think it can be best realized from that camera.
-------------------- A few thoughts on cultivation MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!! The whole is greater than the sum of its parts
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: blindingleaf]
#22038051 - 08/03/15 03:05 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
blindingleaf said:
Quote:
First, I would like to thank the community in advance for participating in my environmental science project. It means a lot to me when I recieve advice and constructive critism. It challenges me to see things from a different vantage point and helps me move things along.
I was following what u outlined in your OP here. but take it like you want man, was just giving u my 2cents, as it appears you were trying to do with your posts.
I think there is benefit to be gained, and i think it can be best realized from that camera.
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insanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: bodhisatta]
#22038297 - 08/03/15 04:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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For those of you that have shown interest in my work, you will have access to my journal. For those of you that are interested but have not shown it through posting in this thread, pm me and I will add you to the list.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22038001
Edited by insanemike (08/03/15 04:27 PM)
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cronicr


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Re: Monotub Improvement Project preliminary test run #1 [Re: insanemike]
#22038322 - 08/03/15 04:26 PM (8 years, 5 months ago) |
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This thread has been closed.
Reason: For those of you that are interested but have not shown it through posting in this thread, pm me and I will add you to the list.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22038001
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