Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide
    #21980542 - 07/22/15 02:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I decided to save a few bucks and go with Oats instead of WBS.  Hopefully the grows will be the same or better as my WBS.  I came across several TEK's, like most people when they are looking into something new.  This thread is to put 3 of the most common procedures vs each other.  The whole point of this is to get water into your grain or what ever you decide to use.  I am following each TEK, only using water.  I will be weighing them as soon as they are dry enough to PC and pitting the final weights all vs each other in a battle to see which TEK puts the most water in your grain.  A few other parameters that are useful are things such as time and ease.

The setup :

First, I rinsed off the grain.  Not separate, but all together.


Zero'ed my bowl


I then weighed out 1000g, 250g for each experiment


I separated it my best into 4 equal piles.  Each one of them read 250g on my scale after zero'ing the plate.





30 min boil:

I started by boiling water, no grains with the water.


Once it reached a *MEDIUM HEAT BOIL* I added the oats and did not cover it with a lid

Here is how they look, freshly out of the boil and rinsed with cold water.


The weight



The Microwave:

I just got any bowl that could hold the amount of oats I needed and double their height in water.

I dumped in the oats and filled it 2x the height of the oats

Set the timer for 45m on high and walked away


Here is what they look like, freshly out of the microwave and rinsed with cold water


The weight


The Soak:

I put my oats in a thick pot with a heavy metal lid


I boiled enough water to cover them up x4 (I wanted it to stay hot longer) I was afraid of soaking them with such little water that It could go cold during the middle of the process and skew the results.




After the soak, this is what they look like fresh out and rinsed with cold water


The weight



The PC hydration/sterilize : (suggested by Inocuole)

I got out one of my jars and dumped the 250g of oats inside

I was having issues trying to figure out how much water to use.  I ended up eyeballing about 470ml of water.  I figured if it did not absorb, I can just dump it out anyways.

Standard process of PCing.  I boiled my water with the jar inside, put the lid on, waited till no more steam sputtering was taking place then put on my 15PSI weight.  It was then PC'ed for 1h 30m.



I will not be rinsing these off with cold water, because in the real world that would not be an option.  They were weighed after being stained of rogue water.

This is what it looked like when it came out of the PC.  The ones at the bottom were a bit gooey, I did not seem to notice it once I put it in the strainer and mixed them up. 


The weight




Things to say..

Microwave : I was overly impressed by the microwave.  It needed WAY more water than any other method though.  It seemed to cook off the water more rapidly than any of the above.  Either way, the grains still look great.  A few exploded but nothing serious and they are nicely hydrated!

The 30min boil : I think not having them in the pot while bringing the pot to boiling is key.  I will be testing that later on sometime though.  They turned out better than I expected.  No bursting and they are all nice and hydrated!

The 1h 30m soak :  Prob the easiest method if you don't want to pay attention to anything.  No bursting of any kind, all the grains are nicely hydrated and you don't have to be exactly perfect.  Which makes this all the more alluring for me and people trying to get into this hobby.  You can likely leave these for 5-6 hours with no bad side effects what so ever, as  Inocuole pointed out in his TEK.

The PC Hydration/sterilize : Wow!  Not only did it achieve the most hydration, It did something to the oats also.  They are REALLLLLLY soft with out exploding.  You can see the color is different.  It almost feels like they were cooked to perfection.  I have a feeling that as a community, we should be trying to dial in this method so it is perfect for all grains.  I might have a quest!

Extra Images :

On the left is boiled, on the right is microwaved


Side by side :
Closer



So, I pc'ed them all and knocked them up tonite 7/23/15



PE of course!  I will keep this thread updated with their progress.  I just wanted to ensure people that all these methods will work and you can't really loose!


Edited by MikeBearPig (07/23/15 09:59 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad Season
hookers and blackjack
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21980566 - 07/22/15 03:00 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I can tell you when I hydrate them, I bring it up to a huge rolling boil, and they seem to take up at least double the volume when hydrated. Sometimes I forget about them, and the water spills over the edges. It doesn't matter though, they take it in so nicely with ZERO clumping. It isn't shocking you can even pc to hydrate. Their outer hulls are INSANE. They can take literally anything from what I can tell.

I don't even use gypsum or rinse them. It's the outer hulls that make them so slippery, like sand.

I save my gypsum for bulk :wink:


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Edited by Mad Season (07/22/15 03:01 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Mad Season]
    #21980584 - 07/22/15 03:06 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
I can tell you when I hydrate them, I bring it up to a huge rolling boil, and they seem to take up at least double the volume when hydrated. Sometimes I forget about them, and the water spills over the edges. It doesn't matter though, they take it in so nicely with ZERO clumping. It isn't shocking you can even pc to hydrate. Their outer hulls are INSANE. They can take literally anything from what I can tell.

I don't even use gypsum or rinse them. It's the outer hulls that make them so slippery, like sand.

I save my gypsum for bulk :wink:





You just outlined the soak method i used.

I did not use gypsum in this experiment, but I use it for ALL my grain soaks.  Why are you saving something that is $4.50 for a 40lbs bag?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad Season
hookers and blackjack
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21980593 - 07/22/15 03:08 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Because it was a bitch to find around here lol. I cleaned the store dry when I found it. I don't mind the money. Just would like a place that would constantly have it.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Mad Season]
    #21980606 - 07/22/15 03:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Because it was a bitch to find around here lol. I cleaned the store dry when I found it. I don't mind the money. Just would like a place that would constantly have it.




Home Depot (for me)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad Season
hookers and blackjack
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21980630 - 07/22/15 03:19 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Jealous lol. The bitches there didn't know what I was even talking about, and I hate drywall. I ended up getting these bags at the same feed/farm store where I got my oats. A ridiculous amount of them. Should last me a long ass time :P


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCMOSS
Back Again


Registered: 07/07/15
Posts: 44
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21980635 - 07/22/15 03:20 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Nice writeup, I have yet to try doing anything with oats.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblejbaby007
Badass
I'm a teapot


Registered: 02/28/15
Posts: 1,026
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Mad Season]
    #21980662 - 07/22/15 03:28 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

All of this is good to know. I'll have to experiment with oats one of these days.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineZEPH
member


Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 1,609
Loc: Up
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: CMOSS]
    #21980732 - 07/22/15 03:47 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Oats are the bomb i put mine in my pc cuz its my biggest. Pot put water in till covers a few inches above them and bring to a low boil...start timer 45 mins strain till somewhat dry... load into jars then pc for 90mins..  i love oats... good experiment op..the pc method would be realy sweet if u find the correct ratio..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: ZEPH]
    #21980742 - 07/22/15 03:49 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ZEPH said:
Oats are the bomb i put mine in my pc cuz its my biggest. Pot put water in till covers a few inches above them and bring to a low boil...start timer 45 mins strain till somewhat dry... load into jars then pc for 90mins..  i love oats... good experiment op..the pc method would be realy sweet if u find the correct ratio..





As soon as I have 7 free jar's, I plan to load up all 7 with different amounts of water and pass on the love to you guys.

The grains that were cooked in the PC were perfectly fine after I rinsed them off.  I just did not rinse to get the weight. 

It is going to be a long time since I am knocking up all these grains and I have none left.

Somebody can easily do this though! 


Edited by MikeBearPig (07/22/15 03:52 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21980776 - 07/22/15 03:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:rockon:

your substrate thread had like 100 views and no replies and this has 50 views and 10 replies. good work you're on the right track :lol:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: bodhisatta]
    #21980798 - 07/22/15 04:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
:rockon:

your substrate thread had like 100 views and no replies and this has 50 views and 10 replies. good work you're on the right track :lol:





I am just compiling ideas.  I hardly care about the view count.

Edit : Maybe I will do some other TEK vs TEK.. If I can actually measure some factor that might make a difference.  This seemed to be one of the only real "science" you can do with the randomness of this hobby.

I will have to do a WBS and RYE!  Just expand this to more than oats.


Edited by MikeBearPig (07/22/15 04:03 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlkaloids
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine
Male


Registered: 11/15/98
Posts: 743
Loc: pubis mons
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21980835 - 07/22/15 04:10 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I'm all aboard.  We just tried organic oats for the first time last night and they seem to have turned out well. Boiled and colander dried.  A few burst kernels, but the kernels were not sticky and flowed well.  They looked like a cross between your boil and soak methods.  Thanks for posting your findings.  I'll see about getting some pictures up, but any useful info i'll pass along.   

What times are most people using for PCing quart jars?  I've been going between 65-75 minutes with no signs of endemic contaminants so far.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Alkaloids]
    #21980841 - 07/22/15 04:11 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alkaloids said:
I'm all aboard.  We just tried organic oats for the first time last night and they seem to have turned out well. Boiled and colander dried.  A few burst kernels, but the kernels were not sticky and flowed well.  They looked like a cross between your boil and soak methods.  Thanks for posting your findings.  I'll see about getting some pictures up, but any useful info i'll pass along.   

What times are most people using for PCing quart jars?  I've been going between 65-75 minutes with no signs of endemic contaminants so far.





We.. As a community recommend 90 min.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineZEPH
member


Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 1,609
Loc: Up
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21980932 - 07/22/15 04:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I pc 90-105 mins. Always slightly over 90 tho


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlkaloids
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine
Male


Registered: 11/15/98
Posts: 743
Loc: pubis mons
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21982707 - 07/23/15 12:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
Quote:

Alkaloids said:
I'm all aboard.  We just tried organic oats for the first time last night and they seem to have turned out well. Boiled and colander dried.  A few burst kernels, but the kernels were not sticky and flowed well.  They looked like a cross between your boil and soak methods.  Thanks for posting your findings.  I'll see about getting some pictures up, but any useful info i'll pass along.   

What times are most people using for PCing quart jars?  I've been going between 65-75 minutes with no signs of endemic contaminants so far.





We.. As a community recommend 90 min.




Thank you for the reply.  I'm familiar with using grain spawn.  More particularly organic rye and millet spawn.  I have, in the past and it seems currently, less than a 5% contamination rate with my grain spawn with it being PC-ed for generally around 75 minutes. Do you think it would be worth the extra time and energy to up the time to the community recommended 90 min? 

Is that for any type of grain irrespective of source/initial contaminant load?  Getting the best possible quality is the aim with energy savings being a great bonus, as long as any measures they do not compromise quality.    Subscribing to this thread


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleAlkaloids
3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine
Male


Registered: 11/15/98
Posts: 743
Loc: pubis mons
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: ZEPH]
    #21982710 - 07/23/15 12:16 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ZEPH said:
I pc 90-105 mins. Always slightly over 90 tho




Thanks for the feedback.  At what point do you think it would be overkill?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad Season
hookers and blackjack
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Alkaloids]
    #21982733 - 07/23/15 12:20 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Honestly I don't pc for anything less than 120 minutes. I found 90 wasn't even enough. I'm pretty anal about my spawn. As you can see:

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Well there's a difference between colonized and cleanly colonized.

This is colonized:

Lots of members have noticed cobweb and trich from jars that look like this or better. Wet spots are bacteria. Not wet grains or wet spots. To colonize cleanly is the hardest. I had to change my pc times to 2 hours to reduce it.

This is (ALMOST) cleanly colonized, that's how hard it is to have it completely clean. This isn't even completely clean:


This is completely clean spawn:



Notice there's no thick cottage cheese looking mycelium or any wet spots.

Anyone who's done this for awhile will testify this is the hardest part of the hobby and is what will dictate the success or failure of bulk.



I've heard of people doing a minimum 3 hours on bags. I don't think that there really is overkill.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Edited by Mad Season (07/23/15 12:22 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineZEPH
member


Registered: 03/01/02
Posts: 1,609
Loc: Up
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Alkaloids]
    #21982909 - 07/23/15 01:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Alkaloids said:
Quote:

ZEPH said:
I pc 90-105 mins. Always slightly over 90 tho




Thanks for the feedback.  At what point do you think it would be overkill?



Yeah like mad season said really no overkill as long as ur pc  dosnt run out of
Water


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Mad Season]
    #21983940 - 07/23/15 10:15 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Honestly I don't pc for anything less than 120 minutes. I found 90 wasn't even enough. I'm pretty anal about my spawn. As you can see:

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Well there's a difference between colonized and cleanly colonized.

This is colonized:

Lots of members have noticed cobweb and trich from jars that look like this or better. Wet spots are bacteria. Not wet grains or wet spots. To colonize cleanly is the hardest. I had to change my pc times to 2 hours to reduce it.

This is (ALMOST) cleanly colonized, that's how hard it is to have it completely clean. This isn't even completely clean:


This is completely clean spawn:



Notice there's no thick cottage cheese looking mycelium or any wet spots.

Anyone who's done this for awhile will testify this is the hardest part of the hobby and is what will dictate the success or failure of bulk.



I've heard of people doing a minimum 3 hours on bags. I don't think that there really is overkill.









The KSSS spawn.


Edited by MikeBearPig (07/23/15 10:16 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleinsanemike

Registered: 02/23/14
Posts: 4,272
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21983971 - 07/23/15 10:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I love the side by side visual of the kernels. Nice experiment.

This may be a little off topic but I have found my grains come out of the pc looking very dry on the outside with little to no effort to shake loose. Instead of letting the hull completely dry before pc'ing, I have opted to not fully hydrate my grain any longer (that goes for oats and every other grain I prepare). I actually leave the center of the grain dry and let the grain soak up the excess moisture on the hull during sterilization.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad Season
hookers and blackjack
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21983981 - 07/23/15 10:27 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Lots of them look like they have bacteria in them. The one in the middle off center to the right especially. I mean don't get me wrong, people will have success with bacterial stuff, and lots of the times their cultures are so aggressive they won't even know it was there. Bacteria is hard af to fight off in spawn. This is why they recommend you inoculate a freshly pcd jar within 3 days. To give it a head start, so it'll overpower the bacteria.
Quote:

Mad Season said:
They didn't have wet grains stuck to the jar side. It was bacteria. A properly pasteurized bulk substrate has beneficial microbes that fight bacteria off. In fact if mycelium takes the upper hand like the jars in those pics, more often than not it won't be a problem. However it will ruin pinsets, slow down colonization rates, and EXTREMELY increase chances of other contaminations like trich or cobweb.

All those jars were used to make their own separate trays. The ones that were clean easily pumped out twice as much weight.

Dirty spawn:


Clean spawn:





--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: insanemike]
    #21983988 - 07/23/15 10:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

insanemike said:
I love the side by side visual of the kernels. Nice experiment.

This may be a little off topic but I have found my grains come out of the pc looking very dry on the outside with little to no effort to shake loose. Instead of letting the hull completely dry before pc'ing, I have opted to not fully hydrate my grain any longer (that goes for oats and every other grain I prepare). I actually leave the center of the grain dry and let the grain soak up the excess moisture on the hull during sterilization.




I never let anything dry before PCing.  I just have a method of shaking I do, its more like dropping but.  I have found it to be better for me to leave a coating of water on the outside or my wbs looks dry or loses hydration in the PC.

After doing the oats.. I am never doing WBS again.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21983992 - 07/23/15 10:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

None of those jars have bacteria. It is just the color of the grain on the side of the glass buddy.





this is the tub


Edited by MikeBearPig (07/23/15 10:32 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad Season
hookers and blackjack
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21984004 - 07/23/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Lol well you can think that. A real clean jar wouldn't have any visible wet grains on the sides. They look like they aren't colonized because they can't be. Bacteria is stopping it. Metabolites also generally indicate there's a contamination present too. This is the exact reason why I started agar and upping pc times. To get rid of those wet grains.

Also I said lots of the times it'll colonize and fruit just fine. It just increases chances of contamination and lowers overall yield.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Edited by Mad Season (07/23/15 10:34 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
Smurf real estate agent
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21984006 - 07/23/15 10:32 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I would vote they're not 100% clean. Buy a 150$ scope and surprise yourself.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Mad Season]
    #21984014 - 07/23/15 10:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Lol well you can think that. A real clean jar wouldn't have any visible wet grains on the sides. They look like they aren't colonized because they can't be. Bacteria is stopping it. Metabolites also generally indicate there's a contamination present too. This is the exact reason why I started agar and upping pc times. To get rid of those wet grains.





Show me jars of your WBS.  You can either show me an example of somebody using WBS with no grains on the side you trust or show me yours.

It really does just look like that.

Also, I don't wait for 100% colonization.  I don't have time.  If i have 5 jars that look 100% I will grab another one if its nearly done and just throw it in. 



https://files.shroomery.org/files/14-40/237933997-gtslurryday6.jpg


Edited by MikeBearPig (07/23/15 10:46 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad Season
hookers and blackjack
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21984040 - 07/23/15 10:44 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I showed you the cleanest I could get it before I quit wbs in my bacteria quotes. They just have a retarded amount of endospores that survive even 2+ hours in the pc. You should ask maddchef, he had a retarded time with wbs's endos. Would survive 3.5-4 hours in the pc.

Anything animal grade and that starchy is pretty much bacteria haven. Ask pasty what he had to do to completely get rid of grains with endos. He had to run 2 pc cycles. 1 at like 20 psi then 1 at 60? That's why if I was to do small grains again, I'd do straight millet lol


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Edited by Mad Season (07/23/15 10:46 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Mad Season]
    #21984056 - 07/23/15 10:50 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
I showed you the cleanest I could get it before I quit wbs in my bacteria quotes. They just have a retarded amount of endospores that survive even 2+ hours in the pc. You should ask maddchef, he had a retarded time with wbs's endos. Would survive 3.5-4 hours in the pc.

Anything animal grade and that starchy is pretty much bacteria haven. Ask pasty what he had to do to completely get rid of grains with endos. He had to run 2 pc cycles. 1 at like 20 psi then 1 at 60? That's why if I was to do small grains again, I'd do straight millet lol





In all my tubs.. the only time I have seen a bacterial contamination is.

When condensation builds up on a freshly spawned tub and it pools on the substrate, it happens a lot on my KSSS for some reason.

After the substrate has put out multiple flushes and has been handled.

Aside from that.. I don't get Trich outside of bad inoculate fruit fly's.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad Season
hookers and blackjack
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21984074 - 07/23/15 10:57 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Well if it's working for you then don't fix what's not broken right? I live in a 70s farm house with dogs everywhere lol. This is just what I had to do to make sure I don't get trich or anything, because my first attempts generally either contaminated or had shitty af yields. For me, being anal is what got me into the 99% success group. I wouldn't ever go back lol


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Mad Season]
    #21984081 - 07/23/15 10:58 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Well if it's working for you then don't fix what's not broken right? I live in a 70s farm house with dogs everywhere lol. This is just what I had to do to make sure I don't get trich or anything, because my first attempts generally either contaminated or had shitty af yields. For me, being anal is what got me into the 99% success group. I wouldn't ever go back lol





Maybe I am just having the illusion of luck from my climate.  I don't live in a desert , but its fucking hot here.

I just make sure my LC is good and everything falls into place.. Seems like a auto-win if you have clean inoculate.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad Season
hookers and blackjack
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21984140 - 07/23/15 11:18 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It really helps too because liquids like that will have a 24-48 hour recovery, and take off amazingly. Spore syringes take awhile to germinate, giving it that much more time for the bacteria to spread if inoculating grains. The faster it colonizes, the better off you are. So you are right. A cleanly germinated inoculant is the best. If you do that you're pretty much good to go. I still don't even think my spawn is 100% clean and sterile after a 2 hour cycle. It almost seems impossible. I see why every TC says clean spawn is the hardest to do, so I too depend on a fast spreading clean inoculant.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Mad Season]
    #21984146 - 07/23/15 11:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
It really helps too because liquids like that will have a 24-48 hour recovery, and take off amazingly. Spore syringes take awhile to germinate, giving it that much more time for the bacteria to spread if inoculating grains. The faster it colonizes, the better off you are. So you are right. A cleanly germinated inoculant is the best. If you do that you're pretty much good to go. I still don't even think my spawn is 100% clean and sterile after a 2 hour cycle. It almost seems impossible. I see why every TC says clean spawn is the hardest to do, so I too depend on a fast spreading clean inoculant.




I start all my LC's from spores..


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad Season
hookers and blackjack
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21984159 - 07/23/15 11:26 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I said if you're inoculating grains lol. I meant spores to grains. Spores to liquid would be fine (assuming the spores are clean) because liquids are 10x easier at sterilizing due to the consistency. Sorry I didn't make that clear enough.


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Edited by Mad Season (07/23/15 11:27 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Mad Season]
    #21984162 - 07/23/15 11:28 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
I said if you're inoculating grains lol. I meant spores to grains. Spores to liquid would be fine (assuming the spores are clean) because liquids are 10x easier at sterilizing due to the consistency. Sorry I didn't make that clear enough.




I do a 30 min PC run for my LC's, That is one thing I do take an extra step on.  Everything else I just sweep under the rug.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMad Season
hookers and blackjack
 User Gallery


Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada Flag
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #21984216 - 07/23/15 11:41 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Lol you can even sterilize liquids and agar in the microwave after 5-10 minutes. The consistency of liquid is really good at transferring heat. Way better than grains lol. Yeah I pc agar and lcs for 40 minutes. I believe 15-20 is all you need. I just want to be safe lol


--------------------
contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Mad Season]
    #21984361 - 07/23/15 12:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Interesting that the thing I suggested worked so well for you.  I'm thinking that method is probably really good for LI and LC because of how all the extra shit is still in there for the mycelium to catch onto.  However, it could also be prone to bacteria for the same reason, it does look a little gooey until you give it a few shakes.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
Jokes are funny until they're about you


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Inocuole]
    #21987527 - 07/23/15 10:01 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I made 3 LC's and Pulled a fresh genetic's out of one of my LC's.  Transfered it to 3 new liquid cultures and knocked up the experiment. I just wanted to show that each method should work perfectly fine, can't really lose if you follow instructions.

I updated the main thread to reflect this also.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblackout
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #22005410 - 07/27/15 04:36 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Good to see people still monitoring mosisture levels, seems to be a lost thing that nobody bothers to do anymore. I think it is a far more exact way of comparing grow methods, someones grain, pot, power source etc can easily lead to different hydration levels. Yet grains themselves seem fairly consistent, i.e. your grains might be 10-15% moisture so by tracking weight/moisture you can more easily compare to what others are doing.

So if someone says "I had 100g rye and boiled for 30mins" and it was 200g after then if you cook at a lower power for 30min it might be only 180g and you might cook for longer. Or depending on other factors.


Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
Microwave : I was overly impressed by the microwave.  It needed WAY more water than any other method though.  It seemed to cook off the water more rapidly than any of the above.  Either way, the grains still look great.  A few exploded but nothing serious and they are nicely hydrated!



45min on full power is way too much. Once you get to boiling you can lower the power level right down and just keep it simmering. Most would not leave their stove on full power all the way through a boil, if you did you would similarly cook off more water. There is no need, not only is it a waste of power but you risk more exploded grains. There is a common myth where people say grains can never get above 100C in a microwave unless ALL moisture is boiled off ALL grains. This is utter bullshit. Some grains are like mini pressure cookers, popcorn has to heat well past 100C before it explodes and pops. Grains in a microwave can have a similar explosion but less dramatic. You will often hear reheated chicken popping/exploding in a microwave due to pressure build up.

All your grains are drier than most recpies which mention moisture content call for. I remember some guide recommending trying various hydration levels for different grains. Some people would add a fixed amount of water to grain and just PC it with unsoaked grains. They would recommend trying out 100ml, 105ml 110ml & 115ml per 100g of grain, and see which does best. Then you repeat this. The current commonly used methods of boiling for a fixed amount of time is normally going to be less accurate. 1ml of water is approx 1gram.

I think Stamets recommended up to 160ml per 100g in smaller jars, saying smaller jars could tolerate higher moisture levels.

I think RR reckoned his ended up about 40 or 45% moisture content, which is quite low, not sure if he was calculating in the same way I would, i.e. if 100g of grain gets 100ml or 100g of water added it is NOT 50% moisture, it is more since the grain already has moisture in it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: blackout]
    #22005901 - 07/27/15 05:59 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Good to see people still monitoring mosisture levels, seems to be a lost thing that nobody bothers to do anymore. I think it is a far more exact way of comparing grow methods, someones grain, pot, power source etc can easily lead to different hydration levels. Yet grains themselves seem fairly consistent, i.e. your grains might be 10-15% moisture so by tracking weight/moisture you can more easily compare to what others are doing.

So if someone says "I had 100g rye and boiled for 30mins" and it was 200g after then if you cook at a lower power for 30min it might be only 180g and you might cook for longer. Or depending on other factors.


Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
Microwave : I was overly impressed by the microwave.  It needed WAY more water than any other method though.  It seemed to cook off the water more rapidly than any of the above.  Either way, the grains still look great.  A few exploded but nothing serious and they are nicely hydrated!



45min on full power is way too much. Once you get to boiling you can lower the power level right down and just keep it simmering. Most would not leave their stove on full power all the way through a boil, if you did you would similarly cook off more water. There is no need, not only is it a waste of power but you risk more exploded grains. There is a common myth where people say grains can never get above 100C in a microwave unless ALL moisture is boiled off ALL grains. This is utter bullshit. Some grains are like mini pressure cookers, popcorn has to heat well past 100C before it explodes and pops. Grains in a microwave can have a similar explosion but less dramatic. You will often hear reheated chicken popping/exploding in a microwave due to pressure build up.

All your grains are drier than most recpies which mention moisture content call for. I remember some guide recommending trying various hydration levels for different grains. Some people would add a fixed amount of water to grain and just PC it with unsoaked grains. They would recommend trying out 100ml, 105ml 110ml & 115ml per 100g of grain, and see which does best. Then you repeat this. The current commonly used methods of boiling for a fixed amount of time is normally going to be less accurate. 1ml of water is approx 1gram.

I think Stamets recommended up to 160ml per 100g in smaller jars, saying smaller jars could tolerate higher moisture levels.

I think RR reckoned his ended up about 40 or 45% moisture content, which is quite low, not sure if he was calculating in the same way I would, i.e. if 100g of grain gets 100ml or 100g of water added it is NOT 50% moisture, it is more since the grain already has moisture in it.




I did the fixed amount of water in the jar, than ran it through a PC cycle.  I used way too much water.  Next time I am feeling frisky I will run 7 jars side by side. 

I did 400+ ML and had barely any water to strain out of it in the end.



Edited by MikeBearPig (07/27/15 06:02 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblackout
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #22009422 - 07/28/15 12:35 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

If you add water to dry grains and PC at 15psi I find they can explode at the bottom and upper ones can be semi dry. Semi dry grains are much harder to sterilize, I have tried a fair bit before. I read a guy who visited aloha medicinals and they were telling students to cook/hydrate at 5psi for 30mins, leave 12 hours or so and then do them at 15psi, I think for 90mins.

Other users here said aloha's own regime has a lot more heat treatment, so this must just have been for students with access to regular equipment.

It makes sense to me, they hydrate and in the process kill lots of contaminants at 5psi, they do not do a room temp presoak. Then they leave 12 hours as a form of intermittent sterilization, allowing any remaining contaminants to grow and leaving them open to easily be killed during the second heat cycle.

I have hydrated grains like this. Cooking in water in the jar at 5psi and letting it cool a bit and shaking it up, the grains at the bottom were wetter but after the shake it disperses them well. I did not bother with the 12 hours wait though.

Its odd how measuring moisture content has fallen out of favour. I had a thread ages ago listing all the popular vendors and experienced growers water contents. Since the PF bust most vendors do not give any such advice. But you can find it about if you search hard.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: blackout]
    #22009486 - 07/28/15 12:44 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
If you add water to dry grains and PC at 15psi I find they can explode at the bottom and upper ones can be semi dry. Semi dry grains are much harder to sterilize, I have tried a fair bit before. I read a guy who visited aloha medicinals and they were telling students to cook/hydrate at 5psi for 30mins, leave 12 hours or so and then do them at 15psi, I think for 90mins.

Other users here said aloha's own regime has a lot more heat treatment, so this must just have been for students with access to regular equipment.

It makes sense to me, they hydrate and in the process kill lots of contaminants at 5psi, they do not do a room temp presoak. Then they leave 12 hours as a form of intermittent sterilization, allowing any remaining contaminants to grow and leaving them open to easily be killed during the second heat cycle.

I have hydrated grains like this. Cooking in water in the jar at 5psi and letting it cool a bit and shaking it up, the grains at the bottom were wetter but after the shake it disperses them well. I did not bother with the 12 hours wait though.

Its odd how measuring moisture content has fallen out of favour. I had a thread ages ago listing all the popular vendors and experienced growers water contents. Since the PF bust most vendors do not give any such advice. But you can find it about if you search hard.




Such good info here guys. 

I do have an update on something..  Something strange

The grains that I hydrated/sterilized with a PC cycle (15 psi 90 min), then PC'ed again (because I had to weigh the grain inside) are not growing any mycelium.

I asked Inocuole if his longer soak time was for endospores to hatch to kill them in the PC.  It is not part of his TEK, but might as well be. 

On the other hand.. I have never hatched any endospores and never had problems unless I had a bad inoculate.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #22009497 - 07/28/15 12:45 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Interesting, I've never actually put mycelium to a jar done that way.  It won't leap off the wedge?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Inocuole]
    #22009525 - 07/28/15 12:50 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Interesting, I've never actually put mycelium to a jar done that way.  It won't leap off the wedge?




I am misunderstanding something :frown:  I need to smoke to get my head straight. brb

I really don't know what you are saying lol


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #22009537 - 07/28/15 12:52 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
The grains that I hydrated/sterilized with a PC cycle (15 psi 90 min), then PC'ed again (because I had to weigh the grain inside) are not growing any mycelium.





So, I don't know how you inoculated, it looks like agar wedges to me.  Is the mycelium straight up refusing to jump to the grain?  Or did you noc em with spores?  Spores don't like germinating on oats.  But... if it were spores, what the fuck are those squares in the jars?

The first sentence I was just saying that the method that I suggested you to do, I pulled out of my ass and have only ever done on test jars, but never a jar that I actually knocked up. :lol:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Inocuole]
    #22009576 - 07/28/15 12:58 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
The grains that I hydrated/sterilized with a PC cycle (15 psi 90 min), then PC'ed again (because I had to weigh the grain inside) are not growing any mycelium.





So, I don't know how you inoculated, it looks like agar wedges to me.  Is the mycelium straight up refusing to jump to the grain?  Or did you noc em with spores?  Spores don't like germinating on oats.  But... if it were spores, what the fuck are those squares in the jars?

The first sentence I was just saying that the method that I suggested you to do, I pulled out of my ass and have only ever done on test jars, but never a jar that I actually knocked up. :lol:




Ohh, I knocked up all the experimental jars with a LC I made.

All the other ones have growth but the PC ones..  It is way to long for them not to show anything, the others are like 20% colonized.

Edit : Agar?  Me?  hahahha


Edited by MikeBearPig (07/28/15 01:19 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #22009832 - 07/28/15 01:56 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hmm... I suppose there's something to the soak, and probably also something to the double PC run.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
Jokes are funny until they're about you


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblackout
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #22009836 - 07/28/15 01:57 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
The grains that I hydrated/sterilized with a PC cycle (15 psi 90 min), then PC'ed again (because I had to weigh the grain inside) are not growing any mycelium.



I usually write my jar weight (including cap and filter) on the lid, and current info on the sides. So there is never a need to open a jar. So my jar might be 300g, then I add 150g dry grain, I might add 170ml/170g water and microwave it to hydrate. Then entire weight might be 610g afterwards, which means 10ml of water was driven off during boiling, 610-300-170-150=-10. I then might PC and it might drop to 605g, a further 5g/5ml driven off.

Weighing is good in case anything goes wrong or you are suspicious that it might have. Weighing is also very useful when dunking. Weigh your containers and substrate and you can determine if you have dunked too long or too little between flushes.

e.g. if your container is 200g and substrate is 1000g then the total is 1200g. If you harvest a flush of 200g wet you can estimate that 20g of this is dry material, now you can expect a drop in weight from the substrate too. So the container is still 200g and the substrate is now estimated at 980g. So if I dunked and it came out at 1180g I would be happy, if it was higher I have dunked too long and its likely to be over field capacity.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: blackout]
    #22009905 - 07/28/15 02:12 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
The grains that I hydrated/sterilized with a PC cycle (15 psi 90 min), then PC'ed again (because I had to weigh the grain inside) are not growing any mycelium.



I usually write my jar weight (including cap and filter) on the lid, and current info on the sides. So there is never a need to open a jar. So my jar might be 300g, then I add 150g dry grain, I might add 170ml/170g water and microwave it to hydrate. Then entire weight might be 610g afterwards, which means 10ml of water was driven off during boiling, 610-300-170-150=-10. I then might PC and it might drop to 605g, a further 5g/5ml driven off.

Weighing is good in case anything goes wrong or you are suspicious that it might have. Weighing is also very useful when dunking. Weigh your containers and substrate and you can determine if you have dunked too long or too little between flushes.

e.g. if your container is 200g and substrate is 1000g then the total is 1200g. If you harvest a flush of 200g wet you can estimate that 20g of this is dry material, now you can expect a drop in weight from the substrate too. So the container is still 200g and the substrate is now estimated at 980g. So if I dunked and it came out at 1180g I would be happy, if it was higher I have dunked too long and its likely to be over field capacity.





I only opened the jar so I could get the weight for writing this TEK :smile:

The jar had all the nasty sticky stuff inside it still.. I figured the only way I was going to get an accurate weight of the grains was to empty it out, strain the left over water and weigh them.

I then rinsed them off, stuck them back into the jar and PC'ed them again.


Edited by MikeBearPig (07/28/15 02:13 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #22010693 - 07/28/15 04:40 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I just started 7 more.

They are in the PC using 160ml per 100g of water.

It's a very loose numbers, everything is either off or over by 10g.  It should be close enough to where it should not matter (which is the goal)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #22013476 - 07/29/15 06:17 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I give up.. I ran my PC all day with different amount of water both in the jars and PC..  I propped some jars up after the 2nd time, filled with less water.. I tried everything.  These fuckers explode no matter what I do.

I cant stop the bottom layer of oats from blowing out while using the PC/Sterilize method.

Somebody else with a different kinda pressure cooker might have to take this one on for the oats!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #22014547 - 07/29/15 11:39 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I doubt it's the PC, we can just chalk it up to a bad idea and I'll be less than offended.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
Jokes are funny until they're about you


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Inocuole]
    #22014583 - 07/29/15 11:45 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I doubt it's the PC, we can just chalk it up to a bad idea and I'll be less than offended.




I really wanted this one to work..  When you said it, I started dreaming of never hydrating again.. it came to a screeching halt yesterday though.  Can you try out a few jars for my sanity?  I was so upset yesterday.. :frown:


Edited by MikeBearPig (07/29/15 11:46 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleInocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #22016047 - 07/29/15 05:00 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I can, yeah.  But I dunno if I really want to.  Other people have done it successfully, there's a tek with somebody doing WBS this way and showing growth.  Don't remember whose...  It's definitely not the best method or the cleanest.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
Jokes are funny until they're about you


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: Inocuole]
    #22016134 - 07/29/15 05:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
I can, yeah.  But I dunno if I really want to.  Other people have done it successfully, there's a tek with somebody doing WBS this way and showing growth.  Don't remember whose...  It's definitely not the best method or the cleanest.




I would like to update as of this morning it has growth.

The only reason why it is even growing though is because I took them out, weighed them and then rinsed them off a 2nd time to wash away all the bursted grains.

When I am doing this method, the bottom 1/2 are all bursted every time.  It would be stupid to run a PC cycle to empty them, wash them, and PC them again.  I would call that a worthless tek.

The only way this is going to be viable for us is if it works the first time, every time.  I just can't reproduce the results.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineblackout
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 24 days
Trusted Cultivator
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: MikeBearPig]
    #22019955 - 07/30/15 01:55 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

blackout said:
I think Stamets recommended up to 160ml per 100g in smaller jars, saying smaller jars could tolerate higher moisture levels.




Quote:

MikeBearPig said:
They are in the PC using 160ml per 100g of water.




I checked again and I got that wrong sorry. It was 150ml per 100g, I also meant to say it was the highest I have seen. I only read it more recently in GGMM. the 150ml was for 16oz jars. It was 100g rye, 150ml water and 0.5g gypsum. His 10L jar recipe was for 2200g rye, 1500ml water, 8g gypsum, a hugely different ratio.

This was my old thread listing several recommended ratios
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4371401

I still think at lower ratios you will get exploded grains. I would recommend at least cooking a while, open the PC, shake jars and recook.

With rye grass seed there is no issues with exploding. In videos of commercial sclerotia growers you see them putting bags into an autoclave and the grains were visibly dry with water in the bottom of the bag.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMikeBearPig
Not liked.
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/15/14
Posts: 2,319
Re: MBP's Ultimate Oat Hydration Guide [Re: blackout]
    #22021005 - 07/30/15 05:22 PM (8 years, 5 months ago)

The PC grains actually did not have growth, i had them mixed up.  I think bacteria got in the jar, I broke it up today to see what was going on and only found a small chunk of solid mycelium.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Bulk Substrate   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Mushroom-Hut Liquid Cultures   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Capsules   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Concentrates


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* How much hydrated lime? TheAfficianado 2,052 6 04/08/04 01:09 AM
by Anno
* mini grow guide wind_wraith 2,081 6 07/13/01 11:53 AM
by wind_wraith
* Vermiculite use in pre-hydrated poo/compost/bulk substrate goodoldrascal 1,097 2 01/24/06 08:54 PM
by goodoldrascal
* Start to Finish - Complete Guide to Bulk Cultivation erags 12,453 11 03/25/05 11:15 PM
by Riggidy
* Easy Step by Step Guide! pinkfloydms 2,383 11 08/19/07 11:12 AM
by pinkfloydms
* Quaker oats DICK 2,029 7 02/17/06 08:56 PM
by bongtoke
* Question about Shroomwizard's Grow Guide Raspo 1,608 9 07/06/08 01:24 AM
by BrandNewbie
* Favorite oat prep tek and suggestions? CatsLoveHouseMusic 2,277 12 05/08/21 07:41 AM
by Hindsight

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
5,211 topic views. 38 members, 238 guests and 34 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.049 seconds spending 0.01 seconds on 12 queries.