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Offlinecli_hlt
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Rejuvenating spent coir substrate
    #21978979 - 07/22/15 05:09 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Hello fellow shroomers,

I've got a monotub that nearing it's lifetime. It'll produce one or two weak flushes, and usually this is the time after I toss the spent substrate.

Unfortunately ALL of my fresh 12 grain jars got the same kind of mould because certain changes in my inoculation procedure (in English: I've fucked up the whole thing). So no new tub for me for a few weeks. :frown:

I'm thinking about using the poorly producing, soon-to-be-spent coir substrate as spawn for starting a new one while I restart an other set of jars. It would be great experiment. If it fails, at least I've tried.

So.

Did anyone do this before e.g. using healthy, but spent coir substrate as spawn for starting an other monotub?

The orthodox monotub TEK(s) use a fairly high spawn-to-coir ratio, so I suspect that a lot of nutrients are coming from the grains instead of the coir.

Sould I use any supplement? I have:

  • Chicken manure
  • High nitrogen bio fertilizer for plants, thick, brown stuff, used it before with coir for extra nitrogen and didn't ruin anything
  • Straw is possible to get, but expensive (pet store)
  • Could use cooked grains as a supplement, but I think they would rot quicker than the mycelium would colonize them
  • Wheat bran


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OfflineIISkuNkII
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: cli_hlt]
    #21979010 - 07/22/15 05:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

You said the jars were molded.So why would you even open the jars?


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OfflineShroominMe
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: cli_hlt]
    #21979018 - 07/22/15 05:35 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cli_hlt said:
I'm thinking about using the poorly producing, soon-to-be-spent coir substrate as spawn



That's a really bad idea.

You're just inviting contams into your grow. 

Also mycelium produce only so many flushes so I'd bet you'll get at best a weak grow.

Start over and put the spent sub into the garden or trash.


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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: IISkuNkII]
    #21979060 - 07/22/15 06:01 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

IISkuNkII said:
You said the jars were molded.So why would you even open the jars?




Nope, I threw those away. I'd like to use the spent, but healthy coir as spawn.

Quote:

ShroominMe said:
That's a really bad idea.

You're just inviting contams into your grow.

Also mycelium produce only so many flushes so I'd bet you'll get at best a weak grow.




Yes, and no.

Paul Stamets wrote about this in some of his books, and according to him the problem with this is senescence. After doing this (if I remember correctly) about 5 time, you won't get too much, and the chance of infections will grow.

So this is an existing technique, or... well... at least one person did this before :smile: It's not my idea.


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OfflineShroominMe
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: cli_hlt]
    #21979076 - 07/22/15 06:08 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cli_hlt said:
Yes, and no.

Paul Stamets wrote about this in some of his books, and according to him the problem with this is senescence. After doing this (if I remember correctly) about 5 time, you won't get too much, and the chance of infections will grow.

So this is an existing technique, or... well... at least one person did this before :smile: It's not my idea.



Stamets started with a healthy, heavily producing variant and found senescence after several generations.

You're staring out with a non viable variant.

Knock yourself out.


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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: ShroominMe]
    #21979111 - 07/22/15 06:29 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

ShroominMe said:
You're staring out with a non viable variant.




How do you know that?


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InvisibleBuck513
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: cli_hlt]
    #21979140 - 07/22/15 06:43 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

:deathstar:


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: cli_hlt]
    #21980346 - 07/22/15 01:46 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

cli_hlt said:
Nope, I threw those away. I'd like to use the spent, but healthy coir as spawn.




substrates dont do well used as spawn, spawn is highly nutritious and gives myc a leap off effect into the substrate.
using sub as spawn is called super spawning, and there's nothing super about it :tongue2:

you can however put spent subs in a pile or even better a shallow hole in your garden.
cover with something, dirt, leaves etc, water and wait.


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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: spacechildo]
    #21987834 - 07/23/15 11:42 PM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks for the tips spacechildo. I don't so this to replace conventional spawn, not I expect the greatest yield. I do prepared to fail, not just because this practice is unusual, therefore possibly worse than other methods, but because me myself don't have experience with it.

I do this because I see a challenge and adventure where others see catastrophe: all of my 12 grain jars fallen prey to various contaminants, mainly to lipstick and grey mould. This happened because I was impatient, and did not wait an other day to get the proper disinfectant for my SAB (which is bleach), and used alcohol and a small UV-C light to "sterilize" the air. To add insult to injury, I've shaken the jars too early, giving a chance to the contaminant on the lids & cotton filters to distribute throughout the grains nicely.

Lesson learned.

While the second set of jars preparing, I have time to experiment, and the above described super spawning method (thank you for the name :smile: ) is something I did not try.

I already prepared the tub. I used coir, chicken manure, gypsum, wheat bran and an algae based plant fertilizer as supplements. I've used these before with grain spawn with success. After about 24 hours I already see the old mycelium fluffing up. I hope it will be quicker than the contams. Fingers crossed.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: cli_hlt]
    #21988733 - 07/24/15 07:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

I think that's just excuses you make to yourself.
Most people dont use disinfectants in the sab, its a still air box not a sterile air box (which is impossible to do at home).

spent substrate would not do well if spawned to more grain jars. the spent sub has mold spores on it.


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InvisibleBuck513
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: spacechildo]
    #21988744 - 07/24/15 07:30 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

It's less about what you spray in your SAB, and more about how you move inside of it. That's why tons of people use soap water, or even plain old water inside their SAB with great success.

Bulk sub's are already old, and weakening in strength. All you would be doing is expanding that culture and whatever contam lies within it, which is a bad thing.


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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: Buck513]
    #21989057 - 07/24/15 09:22 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Wow, thanks for the insight Buck.

Actually the bleach solution I use keeps the walls moist, unlike alcohol. I can imagine a ton of reasons why a simple "Wet Wall Chamber" would work, but a dry SAB wouldn't. Maybe I don't have to burn my clothes with that nasty stuff anymore :smile:

I'm gonna do experiments with soapy SAB and bleachy SAB and compare the results.

By the way, bleachy SABs gave me very good success rate, many 100% in a row, than 1-2 contams, than an other run of 100%... so there must have been SOMETHING I've done right :laugh:

My attitude towards the old coir stuff is the same it was towards wood chips as cube substrate, I saw contradiction regarding it's usefulness up to the point the only thing I could do is to try. (But I was horribly wrong, and wood IS a terrible substrate. Actually it isn't quite a substrate. But at least I know that now from first-hand experience.)


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InvisibleBuck513
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: cli_hlt]
    #21989069 - 07/24/15 09:24 AM (8 years, 6 months ago)

Honestly I wouldn't even bother spraying bleach one more time.

But hey, if you want to, go ahead:thumbup:


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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: Buck513]
    #22036553 - 08/03/15 07:21 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I'll do a soapy and a bleachy batch, just to see if there's any difference. I hope not. I hate bleach. It stinks, and ruins your clothes if you're not careful. I could live without it.

BTW the original experiment is going well so far. I've got 2 tubs, both are colonized quickly, and now they're pinning. Considering how fast one can get fruits with this method, even a 50% yield would be OK. (Compared to grain spawn.) Only if you don't mind wasting coir of course.

We'll see.


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Offlinecli_hlt
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: cli_hlt]
    #22074609 - 08/11/15 01:25 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

Well I'm not flattered so far, the two flushes from the superspawned tub were about 30% in yield compared to a grain spawned one, and the micelium is noticably weaker.

I prepared an other one from the same old coco, but the substrate is quite different (coco + cow poo). I'll report back when it start producing.


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OfflineLegitimate_itch
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Re: Rejuvenating spent coir substrate [Re: cli_hlt]
    #22074743 - 08/11/15 02:58 AM (8 years, 5 months ago)

I work my SAB like explained by elasticaltiger. http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20111637
Works great


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